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Opera web browser is quite popular in Russia and it has "turbo" mode supposed to compress the data using Opera proxies, so just turning it on is enough to have

Opera web browser is quite popular in Russia and it has "turbo" mode supposed to compress the data using Opera proxies, so just turning it on is enough to have an IP outside of Russia. But the problem is not technical, it's a social problem that must be resolved with public means. Any technical "solution" is just a workaround that potentially makes the situation even worse.

atmosx 13y ago
> But the problem is not technical, it's a social problem that must be resolved with public means. Any technical "solution" is just a workaround that potentially makes the situation even worse. I am very happy to see that other users are sharing the same views as mine on the subject. I also believe in public means for resolving privacy issues not technical (which as you said, could turn the situation even worst).
- Kliment 13y ago
  Why are the two mutually exclusive? You can set up redirecting proxies and mirrors and simultaneously take to the streets to bring down the evil dictator.
  - dmytrish 13y ago
    Yes, you're right. And the example of active defense in the article is quite social too: put pressure upon the government to get them understand that harm to the internet is harm to themselves.
netcan 13y ago
To add to 'making the situation worse'.. One thing that I suspect China finds to their great benefit is using technical loopholes of all sorts as a steam valve. One famous and official example is "Special Economic Zones" if some centralization policy is really hindering business so badly, just take your business to Hong Kong or Xiamen. This relieves the pressure from concentrated pain points. In the censorship context a Chinese person who wants to access Facebook or some censored magazine can get around the firewall. It's easy enough that it's not a big deal and not some serious dissident act. To most expats, intellectual or student reformist, internet censorship in China is a minor inconvenience. It doesn't prevent businesses in China from doing business effectively. To the average Chinese Internet user, censorship invisibly impacts the headlines they see shaping their worldview a little towards the pro-CCP side. They essentially get a moderate win at minimum cost. Locking down the internet more thoroughly would help them control information more fully, but the cost would be much higher. Another commonly occurring example is black markets for currency which emerge in every country with a failing currency policy (surpassingly common). Without those black markets failing policies hit a wall much sooner by completely shutting down tourism, international trade, etc. If you tolerate traffic light money changers, you can go on with your stupid policy of currency control. Without these technical steam valves Russia might seem less livable to certain people who are especially agitated by censorship. Concentrated social or economic interest is a very important component of political change. 5% of the population who make something their no. 1 issue is much more powerful that 50% with a slight preference.
- 6cxs2hd6 13y ago
  That's a very astute observation. As that Dead Kennedys album title says, Give Me Convenience or Give Me Death. Most people most of the time won't care enough to do anything. You only need to redirect the energy of the 5% who care enough to do more than complain.
- dmytrish 13y ago
  I mostly agree with your point, I just want to remark that Russians are very keen at circumventing what they consider to be stupid (alas, this includes laws and rules). I suspect that an average Chinese respects the authority, whereas in Russia it's a kind of a national sport to cheat the system. We can hope that such system of safety "valves" will be unstable in Russia.

atmosx 13y ago

> But the problem is not technical, it's a social problem that must be resolved with public means. Any technical "solution" is just a workaround that potentially makes the situation even worse. I am very happy to see that other users are sharing the same views as mine on the subject. I also believe in public means for resolving privacy issues not technical (which as you said, could turn the situation even worst).

Kliment 13y ago
Why are the two mutually exclusive? You can set up redirecting proxies and mirrors and simultaneously take to the streets to bring down the evil dictator.
- dmytrish 13y ago
  Yes, you're right. And the example of active defense in the article is quite social too: put pressure upon the government to get them understand that harm to the internet is harm to themselves.

netcan 13y ago

To add to 'making the situation worse'.. One thing that I suspect China finds to their great benefit is using technical loopholes of all sorts as a steam valve. One famous and official example is "Special Economic Zones" if some centralization policy is really hindering business so badly, just take your business to Hong Kong or Xiamen. This relieves the pressure from concentrated pain points. In the censorship context a Chinese person who wants to access Facebook or some censored magazine can get around the firewall. It's easy enough that it's not a big deal and not some serious dissident act. To most expats, intellectual or student reformist, internet censorship in China is a minor inconvenience. It doesn't prevent businesses in China from doing business effectively. To the average Chinese Internet user, censorship invisibly impacts the headlines they see shaping their worldview a little towards the pro-CCP side. They essentially get a moderate win at minimum cost. Locking down the internet more thoroughly would help them control information more fully, but the cost would be much higher. Another commonly occurring example is black markets for currency which emerge in every country with a failing currency policy (surpassingly common). Without those black markets failing policies hit a wall much sooner by completely shutting down tourism, international trade, etc. If you tolerate traffic light money changers, you can go on with your stupid policy of currency control. Without these technical steam valves Russia might seem less livable to certain people who are especially agitated by censorship. Concentrated social or economic interest is a very important component of political change. 5% of the population who make something their no. 1 issue is much more powerful that 50% with a slight preference.

6cxs2hd6 13y ago
That's a very astute observation. As that Dead Kennedys album title says, Give Me Convenience or Give Me Death. Most people most of the time won't care enough to do anything. You only need to redirect the energy of the 5% who care enough to do more than complain.
dmytrish 13y ago
I mostly agree with your point, I just want to remark that Russians are very keen at circumventing what they consider to be stupid (alas, this includes laws and rules). I suspect that an average Chinese respects the authority, whereas in Russia it's a kind of a national sport to cheat the system. We can hope that such system of safety "valves" will be unstable in Russia.