4 ms·

Just curious why you view that as an advantage, unless you mean to run commercial, closed-source applications on it?

girvo 13y ago
Less faffing around with even open-source projects that I can't be bothered porting. Although for me, it's Haiku that I want to run on here, and for now it's x86 :)
aristidb 13y ago
Even open source software is often easier on x86. There are more pre-built binaries from the Linux distributions and so on.
wycx 13y ago
Because trying to run open source on almost all ARM SoCs is a massive pain in the arse. Is there a single modern ARM SoC for which you can download a Linux install image with a mainline kernel and everything `just works'?
- zimpenfish 13y ago
  I've had reasonable success running Arch on an ODROIDX. http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/samsung/odroid-x http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/samsung/odroid-x
- welterde 13y ago
  I only tried Arch [1] on a raspberry pi so far, but there it worked just fine. [1] http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv6/raspberry-pi http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv6/raspberry-pi
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- joezydeco 13y ago
  Freescale i.MX. Here's their git repository: http://git.freescale.com/git/cgit.cgi/ http://git.freescale.com/git/cgit.cgi/
  - wycx 13y ago
    That's not mainline. The almost universal lack of Mainline support is what makes ARM so frustrating. If it is not mainline, I don't want to know. Get a Minnowboard MAX and I suspect all the SoC functions will be available with a mainline kernel. Get any ARM SoC and you are stuck with choosing between a mainline kernel with incomplete functionality OR a custom kernel that might have more functionality (if you are lucky). iMX6 might be the closest SoC to getting kernel sources for full functionality (but still stuck with blobs for Vivante GPU), but how much of that has made it to mainline (genuine question)?
    - joezydeco 13y ago
      If it's mainline, then you're probably not an experienced SoC developer because we've been dealing with off-track drivers and chip-level craziness for decades. We're happy to get a kernel that exposes 75% of the chip's blocks, at best. Not sure what you mean by "full functionality" other than GPU driver source, and most of us using these for production purposes don't really care about that at this point. Does it need to be mainline to make your product functional?
      - wycx 13y ago
        I am most definitely not an experienced SoC developer, and I am not trying to make products. Rather my experience is merely playing around trying to use ARM-based devices as general purpose computing devices in the same way you would use an x86 device, e.g. Allwinner A10 set top box as a low power server and the Samsung ARM chromebook. In that context, I think mainline support is important. Otherwise, as someone who is not a developer, getting even simple things to work requires so much more screwing around than anything x86. As for "full functionality", look at an SoC like the Allwinner A10/A20 and see how much of the functionality they built into the SoC can actually be used in linux, despite the excellent efforts of the Linux sunxi team.
Sanddancer 13y ago
There are open source programs out there that make assumptions as to the underlying architecture, such that they don't run as well, or at all, on non-x86 architectures, including OSes like GNU HURD. Sometimes the right tool for the job is x86. Edit: Grepped through the FreeBSD Ports tree for architecture specific ports, and the most common reason not related to using a binary of some sort tends to be that the program uses embedded assembly, usually floating point and/or SIMD extensions, and the developer hasn't coded a fallback of one sort or another. Some of them could probably be ported fairly easily, others may be more difficult projects where it'll be easier/mentally cheaper to just spend the extra money to get an x86 board and be done with it.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 13y ago
  Mediocre and lousy programmers have been making implicit assumptions about architecture and unix variants for 40+ years now that cause all sorts of hell when going to other hardware. (c.f. "all the world's a vax")
  - frozenport 13y ago
    Almost every package breaks on Gentoo across arches or has different stability/compatibility. Its hard stuff, the only way to fix it is to test on all these platforms which is almost impossible.
csense 13y ago
You can compile your software on a fast generic PC without setting up a cross compiler.

girvo 13y ago

Less faffing around with even open-source projects that I can't be bothered porting. Although for me, it's Haiku that I want to run on here, and for now it's x86 :)

aristidb 13y ago

Even open source software is often easier on x86. There are more pre-built binaries from the Linux distributions and so on.

wycx 13y ago

Because trying to run open source on almost all ARM SoCs is a massive pain in the arse. Is there a single modern ARM SoC for which you can download a Linux install image with a mainline kernel and everything `just works'?

zimpenfish 13y ago
I've had reasonable success running Arch on an ODROIDX. http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/samsung/odroid-x http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/samsung/odroid-x
welterde 13y ago
I only tried Arch [1] on a raspberry pi so far, but there it worked just fine. [1] http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv6/raspberry-pi http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv6/raspberry-pi
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
joezydeco 13y ago
Freescale i.MX. Here's their git repository: http://git.freescale.com/git/cgit.cgi/ http://git.freescale.com/git/cgit.cgi/
- wycx 13y ago
  That's not mainline. The almost universal lack of Mainline support is what makes ARM so frustrating. If it is not mainline, I don't want to know. Get a Minnowboard MAX and I suspect all the SoC functions will be available with a mainline kernel. Get any ARM SoC and you are stuck with choosing between a mainline kernel with incomplete functionality OR a custom kernel that might have more functionality (if you are lucky). iMX6 might be the closest SoC to getting kernel sources for full functionality (but still stuck with blobs for Vivante GPU), but how much of that has made it to mainline (genuine question)?
  - joezydeco 13y ago
    If it's mainline, then you're probably not an experienced SoC developer because we've been dealing with off-track drivers and chip-level craziness for decades. We're happy to get a kernel that exposes 75% of the chip's blocks, at best. Not sure what you mean by "full functionality" other than GPU driver source, and most of us using these for production purposes don't really care about that at this point. Does it need to be mainline to make your product functional?
    - wycx 13y ago
      I am most definitely not an experienced SoC developer, and I am not trying to make products. Rather my experience is merely playing around trying to use ARM-based devices as general purpose computing devices in the same way you would use an x86 device, e.g. Allwinner A10 set top box as a low power server and the Samsung ARM chromebook. In that context, I think mainline support is important. Otherwise, as someone who is not a developer, getting even simple things to work requires so much more screwing around than anything x86. As for "full functionality", look at an SoC like the Allwinner A10/A20 and see how much of the functionality they built into the SoC can actually be used in linux, despite the excellent efforts of the Linux sunxi team.

Sanddancer 13y ago

There are open source programs out there that make assumptions as to the underlying architecture, such that they don't run as well, or at all, on non-x86 architectures, including OSes like GNU HURD. Sometimes the right tool for the job is x86. Edit: Grepped through the FreeBSD Ports tree for architecture specific ports, and the most common reason not related to using a binary of some sort tends to be that the program uses embedded assembly, usually floating point and/or SIMD extensions, and the developer hasn't coded a fallback of one sort or another. Some of them could probably be ported fairly easily, others may be more difficult projects where it'll be easier/mentally cheaper to just spend the extra money to get an x86 board and be done with it.

GFK_of_xmaspast 13y ago
Mediocre and lousy programmers have been making implicit assumptions about architecture and unix variants for 40+ years now that cause all sorts of hell when going to other hardware. (c.f. "all the world's a vax")
- frozenport 13y ago
  Almost every package breaks on Gentoo across arches or has different stability/compatibility. Its hard stuff, the only way to fix it is to test on all these platforms which is almost impossible.

csense 13y ago

You can compile your software on a fast generic PC without setting up a cross compiler.