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Mozilla Supports LGBT Equality
- danhak 13y agoThis post is to clarify Mozilla’s official support of equality and inclusion for LGBT people, and to outline a series of actions we are taking to reaffirm this position. I read the whole post several times and did not find a single concrete action, let alone a series. On the other hand, I am aware of one concrete action undertaken by Brendan Eich that is directly counter to all the feel-good rhetoric spouted off by this post.
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- thirsteh 13y agoI imagine what remains of the Mozilla board are having many unscheduled meetings right now.
- MisterBastahrd 13y agoIf the best candidate for the head leadership role of your company is a divisive figure because of documented bigotry, then the entire board has failed the rest of the company.
- Spittie 13y agoThat's because there is no need for concrete actions. Mozilla as a foundation/corporation never discriminated anyone, and they already have guidelines that promote equality.
- thirsteh 13y agoAnd then there's the part where they made someone who is absolutely, positively against the concept of gay people having the same rights as everybody else the figurehead of the organization.
- Spittie 13y agoI'm not saying that was a right move - But this is Brendan private view on the matter, which don't reflect the view of Mozilla, as stated by that post (and their guidelines). And Brendan already said that his private views won't get in the way of the views of Mozilla. I understand that some people want Brendan to step down from his position (and I'm going to guess he probably will soon-ish), but he was elected because he was considered the right guy for the job, and I don't see Mozilla firing him anytime soon, at least without giving him a chance.
- thirsteh 13y agoI'm saying that, while that might fly as CTO or any other role of the organization, CEO is a role analagous to President. The personal views of the chief executive very much influence the entire organization, and therefore it should not be surprising that their personal life becomes part of their professional one.
- tinalumfoil 13y agoConsidering Gay Marriage and Programming are about as far away as 2 issues can get, I really doubt it will be a problem. They don't want to alienate anyone against gay marriage or anyone gay. Since this isn't possible because of how sensitive everyone is, they just chose the best person for the job.
- azakai 13y agoNote the the Mozilla Corporation is controlled by the Mozilla Foundation. So the position of CEO of Mozilla is in fact under that of the chairperson of the foundation. If something is analogous to "president", it would be the latter one (held by Mitchell Baker), not the CEO.
- thirsteh 13y agoI would say the president of the foundation (/the board) is analogous to the electoral college :)
- azakai 13y agoI'm not sure what that part of the blogpost refers to, but one relevant act is mentioning and re-affirming the Mozilla code of conduct, as done here, which guarantees fair treatment for everyone. Another relevant act is http://lukasblakk.com/ascend-project-kickoff/ http://lukasblakk.com/ascend-project-kickoff/ a hacker school-type thing for LGBT and other underrepresented minorities in tech.
- sb057 13y agohttps://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/ https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/ I know some will be skeptical about this, and that words alone will not change anything. I can only ask for your support to have the time to “show, not tell”; and in the meantime express my sorrow at having caused pain.
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- derefr 13y agoYou're talking about it here, aren't you? Since link aggregators exist, and most discussion of blog posts occurs on them, the only thing adding commenting to your own blog does is invite people to hijack your blog as their own soapbox, reusing the blog's audience as their own. You can run an "open" nonprofit, and still not want people handing out pamphlets on your front lawn.
- azakai 13y ago(it's the official blog, which AFAIK always has comments disabled.) edit: shortened since the parent deleted the comment i was replying to
- taspeotis 13y agoalways has comments disabled You're right, so I've deleted my comment.
- cookiecaper 13y agoThe first paragraph makes it sound like Eich's appointment as CEO stirred some controversy around LGBT inclusion. Did I miss something? I haven't seen anything about this yet. Barring some event like this, I think it's stupid for Mozilla to make a politically charged statement just for the heck of it.
- thirsteh 13y agoBrendan Eich donated $1,000 in support of Prop 8, which made gay marriage illegal in California.
- cookiecaper 13y agoOK, thanks for the information. If there's a link to an HN thread or two about that discovery/controversy, I'd be happy to see it. Not sure why I'm getting downvoted for asking for more information, but such is HN I guess.
- buttsex 13y agoFound an HN discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3793012 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3793012
- Spittie 13y agoYou're probably getting downvoted because this has been the "hot" topic of the week, and so your comment appear as trollish. Those are probably the "big" two threads about it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7459529 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7459529 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7475627 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7475627 For more, you can just search his name on hn.angoia.com and sort by date: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=brendan#!/story/sort_by_date/0/brendan https://hn.algolia.com/?q=brendan#!/story/sort_by_date/0/bre...
- Zarathust 13y agoWhile I do support LGBT people, I fail to see how my browser's CEO should take a stance on this. You may call me short sighted if you want, but I fail to see how caring about the employee's personal values have anything to do with Mozilla's products. There are plenty other fields where personal values can be reflected on your work, but Mozilla? I can't even find sarcasm on how they could make a prejudice. I know that people called him out on twitter, but this whole story is going nowhere.
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- bjackman 13y agoTo be honest, I suspect Brendan Eich probably has some pretty fucking stupid opinions about homosexuality. But what does that have to do with software? And shouldn't he have the right to hold those opinions, offensive as they may be, without worrying about their effect on his career? On one hand, corporate "position statements" (which declare opinions like cells declare osmotic pressure) like this are pretty sickening. On the other hand, I think it's a bit silly that the tech community has required Mozilla to make this one.
- justizin 13y agohe has the right, but his job is to foster cooperation and in many cases to have people work for him and if the community doesn't accept his leadership, that pretty much means any period of time that he's in charge is a waste of time at best and a regression at worst.
- transitionality 13y agoSJWs are a tiny, insane minority. You neither represent, nor speak for the community. You certainly do not speak for me.
- thirsteh 13y agoOpinion, yes, but that is not what this is. We know with absolute certainty that he donated a non-trivial amount of money to block gay marriage legislation in California. That is an action solely intended to deprive a people of the rights granted to everyone else, not merely an opinion.
- Jach 13y ago$1k is a pretty trivial amount of money to anyone with a career in tech as long as Brendan's.
- thirsteh 13y ago$100k is a pretty trivial amount of money to anyone whose career made them a billionaire. The amount, as a donation to deprive people of the rights that others have, is non-trivial to me, although it may very well be trivial to many others. Now that is an opinion.
- benjohnson 13y agoI have to admit that this whole episode had given a small doubt on if my company can have an inclusive environment. I have very conservative religious and political views - but I recognize that people have good and amazing attributes regardless of my opinion on their personal lives. I enjoy being working (and friendships) with diverse people who challenge my beliefs, and who I can help in meaningful ways despite our differences. My pause comes from my wondering if the company develops a significant group of people who won't let my own personal beliefs remain separate from the work environment. I'll hopefully forget this sad episode in a few short weeks, so I doubt anything will change in my heart for the worse.
- danhak 13y agoHaving personal beliefs is fine. Taking away the freedom of others is not. You don't have to back proposition 8 to believe homosexuality is immoral, just like you don't have to outlaw pork in order to keep kosher.
- akerl_ 13y agoTelling someone that they can hold views that differ from yours as long as they never show those views or act in support of them seems like one of the very arguments that the equal rights movements are fighting against.
- danhak 13y agoMr. Eich and others are completely free to act according their views on homosexuality, vis a vis their own sexual activities and the way they may choose to raise their families. Restricting the freedom of others is where their freedom to act ends.
- akerl_ 13y agoThat is pretty dramatically false. He has the same freedoms you have: to participate in the political process, to express his views, and to obey the laws. He didn't go out and beat up people who he dislikes, he donated money to a political cause that you and I disagree with.
- lawnchair_larry 13y agoThis statement is incompatible with the actions of the CEO. If the CEO doesn't believe in the mission, this can never be more than lip service.
- azakai 13y agoWhile it might be incompatible with an action he once took, (1) that was many years ago, and (2) on the other hand in this statement and on his personal blog he voiced support for inclusiveness and fair treatment of everyone, and to follow that up with actions.
- paul_f 13y agoExcuse me, but is this a settled issue? One opinion is OK, a different one deserves being ostracized, losing one's job? When did this happen? I don't think I got the memo.
- learc83 13y agoUntil 2 years ago the president of the United State opposed gay marriage. It was OK for him to be President of the United states, while publicly opposing gay marriage. But it's not OK for the CEO of a browser company to publicly oppose gay marriage?
- evertonfuller 13y agoI am so bored of seeing this over and over again. There is absolutely no ties between someones professional and personal life. As is, between a foundation/corporation and the views of any of their employees - yes this includes chairman. Give it a rest for crying out loud.
- A1kmm 13y agoThe Mozilla Foundation (and Corporation) are in a difficult position here, because they are being blamed for someone else doing something unethical, but it would also be unethical for them to do (or have done) anything differently in response to it. Brendan Eich's behaviour in 2008 in trying to take the choice away from couples to marry just because they happen not to be straight is a despicable step to interfere with the rights of others. His apology this month (https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/ https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/) didn't express regret for making the donation, only for "having caused pain"; nothing in the apology suggests that he has actually changed his views. It fits the classic pattern of an apology for how other people reacted to what he did, rather than for what he did. As abhorrent as I find his personal actions, it would not be appropriate for Mozilla to take political activities into account when making employment decisions, such as about promotions or dismissals. If employers could fire people for their political views or activities outside of work, it would be a net loss to our civil and human rights, even if in some cases such laws shield advocates for stripping away freedom and non-discriminatory treatment under the law. The Mozilla Foundation has acted entirely fairly and appropriately here, and it is not fair to blame Mozilla for the actions of Brendan Eich or for not discriminating against him on the basis of his political beliefs.