4 ms·

The debate will still be there either way, will it not? It's probably preferable to base such discussion on a correct log of the events, rather than speculation

by Pacabel 13y ago

The debate will still be there either way, will it not? It's probably preferable to base such discussion on a correct log of the events, rather than speculation and unsubstantiated allegations.

DanBC 13y ago
Mod logs are a call to concern trolls and bike shedding. They're usually a bad idea. Better is to assume good faith and accept that mistakes happen, rather than assume mods need to be kept in check and all actions need to be scrutinised.
- krapp 13y ago
  I don't know. Concern trolls and bike shedding already happens here. Given the conspiratorial nature of some of the community, maybe a bit more transparency is a good idea. Although, where this would really be useful is with banning. Unfortunately, banned users aren't supposed to know they're banned and being able to actually see what straw broke the camel's back might give the game away. But it might help demonstrate to users what's expected of them.
  - hueving 13y ago
    > banned users aren't supposed to know they're banned As someone who has been on the receiving end of a shadow-ban several times over the years, you realize it right away if you actually pay attention. Your comments suddenly get no votes or responses.
- hueving 13y ago
  >Better is to assume good faith and accept that mistakes happen This leaves no room for improvement of the moderation that does occur. This could be fixed by allowing people with 5000+ karma or so to see the mod logs.
tptacek 13y ago
In a choice between (a) uninformed but relatively infrequent debates about the moderator (b) routinized and personalized debates about the moderator, I definitely choose (a). I have a different perspective on HN than I think many other people do here; I consider myself a guest, and don't see myself as part of what makes HN HN. In the somewhat unlikely event that Daniel and Nick do something to make the site unworkable for me, I'm not going to get angry about it.
- pbiggar 13y ago
  That's a curious position. I've been commenting here for over 5 years, and I was reading for longer. I participate in this community in some fashion most days. If HN was taken away or ruined, I would feel I had lost an important part of my life.
- pbhjpbhj 13y ago
  >"I consider myself a guest, and don't see myself as part of what makes HN HN" // That's very interesting. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels you're quite a central part of what makes HN what it is. Without contributors - "guests" if you like - who add genuine value there is no community here beyond that you could find on any number of other tech/business news sites. A party with no guests ... This an especially strange comment - perhaps an attempt at modesty - when one sees in your profile, this: >"Must-read list: 'idlewords (emeritus), 'pbsd, 'apaprocki, 'patio11, 'gruseom, 'anigbrowl, 'mechanical_fish, 'carbocation, 'potatolicious, 'grellas, 'dctoedt, 'yummyfajitas, 'tzs, 'rayiner, 'DannyBee; Yeah, yeah yeah, 'pg too." which rather suggests that for you these people make HN what it is, or at least are essential to giving it the twist of flavour you seek. You've got to realise that should everyone else be forced to make a list like this then you'd be on a large proportion of them, surely? For me, I try to ignore the source of the comments before I consider them but I've been here long enough to have enjoyed many of your comments whether they added a sweet, or sour, flavour to a particular thread. Thank you. This too shall pass and anger is probably not the right response to that passing, fair play.
- ufmace 13y ago
  Modesty is generally a good trait, but I'll say that to me, HN seems to be unique among all other discussion board I've been a part of as far as having a lot of highly accomplished and knowledgeable software people from all walks of life, from startup founders to big-company cogs to freelance contractors. There's lots of places to find jokes, memes, puns, and discussion of the latest TV shows, but I haven't found anywhere on the internet as good as HN is now for this kind of discussion.

by Pacabel 13y ago

The debate will still be there either way, will it not? It's probably preferable to base such discussion on a correct log of the events, rather than speculation and unsubstantiated allegations.

DanBC 13y ago

Mod logs are a call to concern trolls and bike shedding. They're usually a bad idea. Better is to assume good faith and accept that mistakes happen, rather than assume mods need to be kept in check and all actions need to be scrutinised.

krapp 13y ago
I don't know. Concern trolls and bike shedding already happens here. Given the conspiratorial nature of some of the community, maybe a bit more transparency is a good idea. Although, where this would really be useful is with banning. Unfortunately, banned users aren't supposed to know they're banned and being able to actually see what straw broke the camel's back might give the game away. But it might help demonstrate to users what's expected of them.
- hueving 13y ago
  > banned users aren't supposed to know they're banned As someone who has been on the receiving end of a shadow-ban several times over the years, you realize it right away if you actually pay attention. Your comments suddenly get no votes or responses.
hueving 13y ago
>Better is to assume good faith and accept that mistakes happen This leaves no room for improvement of the moderation that does occur. This could be fixed by allowing people with 5000+ karma or so to see the mod logs.

tptacek 13y ago

In a choice between (a) uninformed but relatively infrequent debates about the moderator (b) routinized and personalized debates about the moderator, I definitely choose (a). I have a different perspective on HN than I think many other people do here; I consider myself a guest, and don't see myself as part of what makes HN HN. In the somewhat unlikely event that Daniel and Nick do something to make the site unworkable for me, I'm not going to get angry about it.

pbiggar 13y ago
That's a curious position. I've been commenting here for over 5 years, and I was reading for longer. I participate in this community in some fashion most days. If HN was taken away or ruined, I would feel I had lost an important part of my life.
pbhjpbhj 13y ago
>"I consider myself a guest, and don't see myself as part of what makes HN HN" // That's very interesting. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels you're quite a central part of what makes HN what it is. Without contributors - "guests" if you like - who add genuine value there is no community here beyond that you could find on any number of other tech/business news sites. A party with no guests ... This an especially strange comment - perhaps an attempt at modesty - when one sees in your profile, this: >"Must-read list: 'idlewords (emeritus), 'pbsd, 'apaprocki, 'patio11, 'gruseom, 'anigbrowl, 'mechanical_fish, 'carbocation, 'potatolicious, 'grellas, 'dctoedt, 'yummyfajitas, 'tzs, 'rayiner, 'DannyBee; Yeah, yeah yeah, 'pg too." which rather suggests that for you these people make HN what it is, or at least are essential to giving it the twist of flavour you seek. You've got to realise that should everyone else be forced to make a list like this then you'd be on a large proportion of them, surely? For me, I try to ignore the source of the comments before I consider them but I've been here long enough to have enjoyed many of your comments whether they added a sweet, or sour, flavour to a particular thread. Thank you. This too shall pass and anger is probably not the right response to that passing, fair play.
ufmace 13y ago
Modesty is generally a good trait, but I'll say that to me, HN seems to be unique among all other discussion board I've been a part of as far as having a lot of highly accomplished and knowledgeable software people from all walks of life, from startup founders to big-company cogs to freelance contractors. There's lots of places to find jokes, memes, puns, and discussion of the latest TV shows, but I haven't found anywhere on the internet as good as HN is now for this kind of discussion.