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> This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Do you mean ridiculous as in you believe that he is exaggerating, or ridiculous as in it is amazing that t

> This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Do you mean ridiculous as in you believe that he is exaggerating, or ridiculous as in it is amazing that the car held up so well? I doubt that he would simply make up verifiable facts concerning a specific, well publicized accident to make his company look better. That said, it is quite clear from these facts that this driver is lucky to be breathing today regardless of what kind of car he was driving. If the guy had died, Elon would be talking about how such an extreme accident wouldn't be survivable in any car. This being an edge case, it doesn't really sway me either way, but it is undeniable that Tesla automobiles are very safe relative to others. He is justifiably incensed at the negative media attention surrounding a very small number of incidents.

chongli 13y ago
It's ridiculous how much emphasis the media placed on the fire while ignoring the extreme speed and consequently minor injuries involved in the crash.
- mortenjorck 13y ago
  The standard that the media holds Tesla to will still be a picnic compared to how the media will treat the first self-driving cars. Far safer than human-driven will not be nearly enough; the first high-profile accident will be wall-to-wall "Are Self-Driving Cars Really Ready For Prime Time?"
  - simonh 13y ago
    Even Betteridge's law occasionally has it's exceptions.
    - baddox 13y ago
      Does Betteridge's law have exceptions?
      - nsxwolf 13y ago
        No.
        tlrobinson 13y ago
        I love the meta-ness of this exchange. I assume it was intentional.
  - hahahafail 13y ago
    Breaking News: "Vehicle computer records indicate that the driver took control of the vehicle three minutes prior to the accident."
  - brianbreslin 13y ago
    I would bet the first self-driving car accident involves a human driven car as well. Even if it is human error, the media will say the self driving car should have avoided them or something like that.
    - WalterSear 13y ago
      It already has. http://mashable.com/2010/10/09/google-cars/ http://mashable.com/2010/10/09/google-cars/
  - alexeisadeski3 13y ago
    Tesla was handled with kid gloves compared to Toyota. Remember the unintended acceleration crock?
    - shuffle2 13y ago
      You mean this one? http://embeddedgurus.com/state-space/2014/02/are-we-shooting-ourselves-in-the-foot-with-stack-overflow/ http://embeddedgurus.com/state-space/2014/02/are-we-shooting...
      - alexeisadeski3 13y ago
        Yes, this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9311_Toyota_vehicle_recalls#NHTSA_and_NASA_Investigation_Verdict http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9311_Toyota_vehicle_...
    - jamesaguilar 13y ago
      Um, it wasn't crock. They recently settled a huge lawsuit and criminal investigation with the US government to the tune of $1.2B. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/03/19/toyota-settlement-unintended-acceleration/6595345/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/03/19/toyota-s...
      - alexeisadeski3 13y ago
        It was a crock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9311_Toyota_vehicle_recalls#NHTSA_and_NASA_Investigation_Verdict http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9311_Toyota_vehicle_...
    - Crito 13y ago
      The Toyota Acceleration issue ranks up there with the McDonald's Coffee lawsuit as one of the most doubly misunderstood corporate events in recent history. Popular belief has there being an acceleration problem with Toyota cars. Slightly less popular is the correction that in fact it was all just senile old people and floor mats, nothing to do with the computers. Far less common is the correction that there were in fact technical problems with the cars. Similarly popular belief has the McDonald's coffee lawsuit being absurd, because "everyone knows that coffee is hot and how much damage can it cause anyway?". Slightly less popular is the correction that the burns were in fact horrific and the coffee was stunningly hot, far hotter than industry standard. Far less common is the further correction that in fact McDonald's coffee was being served at an industry standard temperature, where "industry standard" is defined as how other companies also serve their coffee (Starbucks coffee is generally just as hot, and many companies serve hotter coffee than McDonald's was serving.) In fact, since the lawsuit, McDonald's hasn't reduced the temperature that they serve their coffee at. The only change that McDonald's has made since the lawsuit is adding warning labels, the coffee you buy there today can be just as hot as the coffee that burned Stella Liebeck... don't spill it on yourself! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants#Coffee_temperature http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restauran...)
- jamdavswim 13y ago
  exactly.. I read that and was like... how did I not get that from the original article?
- danielweber 13y ago
  Most normal cars survive "normal" crashes just fine, don't they? Tesla buyers tend to be sports car buyers who want to drive fast. Whether this means we should expect accidents with more force or that Tesla should anticipate this and design accordingly is debatable.
  - akerl_ 13y ago
    Do you have a citation for that claim?
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - exelius 13y ago
      I think a lot of people still think of the Tesla Roadster, not the Model S. The Roadster is definitely a sports car, but the Model S is like a BMW 5-series... Yeah, it's fast, but the people who can afford one are generally old/mature enough to know not to drive recklessly on public roads.
      - Fomite 13y ago
        ...you don't know the same middle aged and affluent people I do.
        vajrabum 13y ago
        I know 280 though and Tesla S drivers although they often like to drive fast are generally courteous.
- DVassallo 13y ago
  True. Here's what happens to a Ford Focus that crashes into a concrete wall at ~100mph: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmRkPyuet_o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmRkPyuet_o
  - JeffL 13y ago
    That's not really comparable, though, because this video is going straight into a super reinforced wall. The Tesla accident was hitting the roundabout, going on into another wall, then going on into a tree, so each of those is much less of an impact than smack into a reinforced wall.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    Ah yes, because a Tesla would leave you unscratched if you collided with the same immovable wall?
    - TrainedMonkey 13y ago
      Reminded me of a joke I heard a while ago: "Just released car has amazing safety features that prevent any damage to the vehicle. Amazing advance of technology was made available by near instantaneous braking. Even going 100 mph a car can come to a complete stop instantaneously. After that wipers are deployed automatically to wipe off remains of a driver from windshield." Any significant change of momentum will harm humans no matter how tough the car is. Newer cars are actually less rigid to provide a cushion to human drivers in case of such collision. Edit: I meant less rigid in right places. If you observe crash test you could see how neatly car folded around drivers cage. Thanks drglitch for pointing that out.
      - drglitch 13y ago
        Newer cars are more rigid in just the right places (e.g. driver cage) - they do have larger/softer crumple zones that permit the damage to be absorbed along a longer time period. By prolonging the total crumple/crash time, the peak energy is decreased, thereby avoiding injuries from force overload during deceleration.
- SixSigma 13y ago
  Look what they did to Toyota over the Sudden Unrequested Acceleration that never was. $1.6bn fine! EDIT: By they I mean the Media. I guess I should add some substance. http://www.nasa.gov/topics/nasalife/features/nesc-toyota-study.html http://www.nasa.gov/topics/nasalife/features/nesc-toyota-stu... NASA's Toyota Study Released by Dept. of Transportation 02.08.11 WASHINGTON -- The results of a ten-month study by 30 NASA engineers of possible electronic causes of unintended acceleration in Toyota vehicles was released today by the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT). "NASA found no evidence that a malfunction in electronics caused large unintended accelerations," said Michael Kirsch, principal engineer and team lead of the study from the NASA Engineering and Safety Center (NESC) based at NASA's Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va. The studies cost over $3 million, including the cost of purchasing the vehicles that have allegedly unintentionally accelerated. Upon completion of the studies, the NHTSA will determine whether a formal investigation into Toyota is necessary. ABC made a totally fake video demonstrating the alleged phenomena. "Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood testifies on Capitol Hill in Washington today before the House Appropriations subcommittee on Transportation. LaHood first told the subcommittee that owners of Toyotas should stop driving them, then clarified his statement and told owners to get their cars fixed promptly." Later LaHood told reporters it was "obviously a misstatement" Toyota have been abused, IMHO, their "blame no-one else" culture is being rinsed by the US Govt.
  - tunesmith 13y ago
    I don't know what to believe about this. Wasn't it just all over the news that an embedded software engineer found all sorts of code quality problems with Toyota and could even demonstrate unintended acceleration via various bugs?
    - SixSigma 13y ago
      That's me schooled. I'd not been party to that (not being in the US) I'd missed it. http://www.viva64.com/en/a/0083/ http://www.viva64.com/en/a/0083/ It sounds like a proper mess. How curious that much is revealed that the NASA people didn't speak of. Maybe because it was ostensibly an investigation at the behest of NIHIST to demonstrate that they hadn't let Toyota off the hook. It is also somewhat disturbing that these are not Toyota parts but parts sourced from NEC. I'm still not convinced that Toyota deliberately hid their knowledge of system failure. A software update would have been much simpler than the millions of physical modifications they chose to make, including fetching customers cars on transporters because they owners were too scared to drive them.
dhughes 13y ago
I think it's amazing how any vehicle maker can idiot-proof any vehicle, the general population seems to be suicidal and then blames the manufacturer for not protecting them during their 110mph missile ride. reddit's /r/Justrolledintotheshop and /r/TalesFromRetail/ makes me wonder how people manage to use any product without killing themselves.

chongli 13y ago

It's ridiculous how much emphasis the media placed on the fire while ignoring the extreme speed and consequently minor injuries involved in the crash.

mortenjorck 13y ago
The standard that the media holds Tesla to will still be a picnic compared to how the media will treat the first self-driving cars. Far safer than human-driven will not be nearly enough; the first high-profile accident will be wall-to-wall "Are Self-Driving Cars Really Ready For Prime Time?"
- simonh 13y ago
  Even Betteridge's law occasionally has it's exceptions.
  - baddox 13y ago
    Does Betteridge's law have exceptions?
    - nsxwolf 13y ago
      No.
      - tlrobinson 13y ago
        I love the meta-ness of this exchange. I assume it was intentional.
- hahahafail 13y ago
  Breaking News: "Vehicle computer records indicate that the driver took control of the vehicle three minutes prior to the accident."
- brianbreslin 13y ago
  I would bet the first self-driving car accident involves a human driven car as well. Even if it is human error, the media will say the self driving car should have avoided them or something like that.
  - WalterSear 13y ago
    It already has. http://mashable.com/2010/10/09/google-cars/ http://mashable.com/2010/10/09/google-cars/
- alexeisadeski3 13y ago
  Tesla was handled with kid gloves compared to Toyota. Remember the unintended acceleration crock?
  - shuffle2 13y ago
    You mean this one? http://embeddedgurus.com/state-space/2014/02/are-we-shooting-ourselves-in-the-foot-with-stack-overflow/ http://embeddedgurus.com/state-space/2014/02/are-we-shooting...
    - alexeisadeski3 13y ago
      Yes, this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9311_Toyota_vehicle_recalls#NHTSA_and_NASA_Investigation_Verdict http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9311_Toyota_vehicle_...
  - jamesaguilar 13y ago
    Um, it wasn't crock. They recently settled a huge lawsuit and criminal investigation with the US government to the tune of $1.2B. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/03/19/toyota-settlement-unintended-acceleration/6595345/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/03/19/toyota-s...
    - alexeisadeski3 13y ago
      It was a crock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9311_Toyota_vehicle_recalls#NHTSA_and_NASA_Investigation_Verdict http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9311_Toyota_vehicle_...
  - Crito 13y ago
    The Toyota Acceleration issue ranks up there with the McDonald's Coffee lawsuit as one of the most doubly misunderstood corporate events in recent history. Popular belief has there being an acceleration problem with Toyota cars. Slightly less popular is the correction that in fact it was all just senile old people and floor mats, nothing to do with the computers. Far less common is the correction that there were in fact technical problems with the cars. Similarly popular belief has the McDonald's coffee lawsuit being absurd, because "everyone knows that coffee is hot and how much damage can it cause anyway?". Slightly less popular is the correction that the burns were in fact horrific and the coffee was stunningly hot, far hotter than industry standard. Far less common is the further correction that in fact McDonald's coffee was being served at an industry standard temperature, where "industry standard" is defined as how other companies also serve their coffee (Starbucks coffee is generally just as hot, and many companies serve hotter coffee than McDonald's was serving.) In fact, since the lawsuit, McDonald's hasn't reduced the temperature that they serve their coffee at. The only change that McDonald's has made since the lawsuit is adding warning labels, the coffee you buy there today can be just as hot as the coffee that burned Stella Liebeck... don't spill it on yourself! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants#Coffee_temperature http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restauran...)
jamdavswim 13y ago
exactly.. I read that and was like... how did I not get that from the original article?
danielweber 13y ago
Most normal cars survive "normal" crashes just fine, don't they? Tesla buyers tend to be sports car buyers who want to drive fast. Whether this means we should expect accidents with more force or that Tesla should anticipate this and design accordingly is debatable.
- akerl_ 13y ago
  Do you have a citation for that claim?
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - exelius 13y ago
    I think a lot of people still think of the Tesla Roadster, not the Model S. The Roadster is definitely a sports car, but the Model S is like a BMW 5-series... Yeah, it's fast, but the people who can afford one are generally old/mature enough to know not to drive recklessly on public roads.
    - Fomite 13y ago
      ...you don't know the same middle aged and affluent people I do.
      - vajrabum 13y ago
        I know 280 though and Tesla S drivers although they often like to drive fast are generally courteous.
DVassallo 13y ago
True. Here's what happens to a Ford Focus that crashes into a concrete wall at ~100mph: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmRkPyuet_o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmRkPyuet_o
- JeffL 13y ago
  That's not really comparable, though, because this video is going straight into a super reinforced wall. The Tesla accident was hitting the roundabout, going on into another wall, then going on into a tree, so each of those is much less of an impact than smack into a reinforced wall.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  Ah yes, because a Tesla would leave you unscratched if you collided with the same immovable wall?
  - TrainedMonkey 13y ago
    Reminded me of a joke I heard a while ago: "Just released car has amazing safety features that prevent any damage to the vehicle. Amazing advance of technology was made available by near instantaneous braking. Even going 100 mph a car can come to a complete stop instantaneously. After that wipers are deployed automatically to wipe off remains of a driver from windshield." Any significant change of momentum will harm humans no matter how tough the car is. Newer cars are actually less rigid to provide a cushion to human drivers in case of such collision. Edit: I meant less rigid in right places. If you observe crash test you could see how neatly car folded around drivers cage. Thanks drglitch for pointing that out.
    - drglitch 13y ago
      Newer cars are more rigid in just the right places (e.g. driver cage) - they do have larger/softer crumple zones that permit the damage to be absorbed along a longer time period. By prolonging the total crumple/crash time, the peak energy is decreased, thereby avoiding injuries from force overload during deceleration.
SixSigma 13y ago
Look what they did to Toyota over the Sudden Unrequested Acceleration that never was. $1.6bn fine! EDIT: By they I mean the Media. I guess I should add some substance. http://www.nasa.gov/topics/nasalife/features/nesc-toyota-study.html http://www.nasa.gov/topics/nasalife/features/nesc-toyota-stu... NASA's Toyota Study Released by Dept. of Transportation 02.08.11 WASHINGTON -- The results of a ten-month study by 30 NASA engineers of possible electronic causes of unintended acceleration in Toyota vehicles was released today by the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT). "NASA found no evidence that a malfunction in electronics caused large unintended accelerations," said Michael Kirsch, principal engineer and team lead of the study from the NASA Engineering and Safety Center (NESC) based at NASA's Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va. The studies cost over $3 million, including the cost of purchasing the vehicles that have allegedly unintentionally accelerated. Upon completion of the studies, the NHTSA will determine whether a formal investigation into Toyota is necessary. ABC made a totally fake video demonstrating the alleged phenomena. "Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood testifies on Capitol Hill in Washington today before the House Appropriations subcommittee on Transportation. LaHood first told the subcommittee that owners of Toyotas should stop driving them, then clarified his statement and told owners to get their cars fixed promptly." Later LaHood told reporters it was "obviously a misstatement" Toyota have been abused, IMHO, their "blame no-one else" culture is being rinsed by the US Govt.
- tunesmith 13y ago
  I don't know what to believe about this. Wasn't it just all over the news that an embedded software engineer found all sorts of code quality problems with Toyota and could even demonstrate unintended acceleration via various bugs?
  - SixSigma 13y ago
    That's me schooled. I'd not been party to that (not being in the US) I'd missed it. http://www.viva64.com/en/a/0083/ http://www.viva64.com/en/a/0083/ It sounds like a proper mess. How curious that much is revealed that the NASA people didn't speak of. Maybe because it was ostensibly an investigation at the behest of NIHIST to demonstrate that they hadn't let Toyota off the hook. It is also somewhat disturbing that these are not Toyota parts but parts sourced from NEC. I'm still not convinced that Toyota deliberately hid their knowledge of system failure. A software update would have been much simpler than the millions of physical modifications they chose to make, including fetching customers cars on transporters because they owners were too scared to drive them.

dhughes 13y ago

I think it's amazing how any vehicle maker can idiot-proof any vehicle, the general population seems to be suicidal and then blames the manufacturer for not protecting them during their 110mph missile ride. reddit's /r/Justrolledintotheshop and /r/TalesFromRetail/ makes me wonder how people manage to use any product without killing themselves.