13 ms·

Gnome 3.12 Released

196 points by bkor 13y ago

dmix 13y ago
Looks great. I've been extremely happy with Gnome UI after switching from OSX. It's fun being able to play with a desktop that is constantly improving on a rolling-release platforms like Arch Linux, where new updates stream in constantly. Instead of having to wait a year or more for big waterfall releases like OSX (Mavericks was also pretty disappointing). My only complaint is how every gnome upgrade the majority of gnome shell extensions break and the dev community is really slow to update them.
- gtirloni 13y ago
  Just the fact that people need a ton of shell extensions to make it barely usable is a problem in itself. The fact that they break (and some are let to rotten) after every major release is just to beat a dead body. Just a few weeks ago I tried Gnome 3 again (again!) and it still sucks as a productivity environment. I have better things to do. But as a geek, I'll be checking Gnome 3 again maybe in a year or more. No holding my breath for any surprises.
  - Touche 13y ago
    Why do you think people need a ton of shell extensions? What is missing from base?
    - hrkristian 13y ago
      I've got about ten extensions running, most of them I feel makes sense aren't in the base. The one exception is one modifying alt-tab behavior so it doesn't group programs on different workspaces together. Honestly, that's the one behavior I cannot understand exists in the first place, makes navigating by keyboard nigh impossible.
      - johnchristopher 13y ago
        > The one exception is one modifying alt-tab behavior so it doesn't group programs on different workspaces together. Honestly, that's the one behavior I cannot understand exists in the first place, makes navigating by keyboard nigh impossible. To each its own but I really like the fact I can alt-tab between all applications as I tend to stick one application per screen because I mostly use a 1024x600 monitor. Thinking about it can see how that would be a problem with larger resolutions though. You would have to mentally discard icons that aren't relevant to the screen you are looking at. I like gnome but I think Unity solved that problem in a more elegant way (icons on the dock can recall any applications whatever the screen it's living on).
      - amboar 13y ago
        As paulyg mentioned above, you can use Alt-` (tilde) to cycle through multiple instances of an application after using Alt-Tab to select the group. I think it actually make the experience less tedious.
        hrkristian 13y ago
        Indeed, or Alt-| in my case (Norwegian layout), and it works for currently focused application, as well. Try doing that with multiple instances (3+) of your browser though. I've got general browsing on WS1, Netflix on WS2, tutorials and the likes on WS3, and usually Gmail etc on WS4. Imagine cycling through those, and sometimes more for various reasons, without separating by workspace. Tedious, tedious, tedious.
        amboar 13y ago
        Right. Yes - I missed the workspace specific part of your complaint before replying - sorry about that.
  - buzaga41 13y ago
    It's productive to me. I've tried Unity some times already and can't get used to it and at the moment I'm on Gnome Classic because of an issue when upgrading and I'm missing Gnome 3, so maybe each person has their preferences?
  - hahainternet 13y ago
    > Just the fact that people need a ton of shell extensions to make it barely usable is a problem in itself Other than 'native window placement' I find that pretty much every extension I have installed is a customisation where I want something to work in a particular way. It's not that Gnome is unusable by default, it's just more the minimal set of features that everyone uses. For example, including a time tracker on the top bar by default would be wasteful, as would a timer. I want both of these though, so I go to a website and click a button and they work. However, the lack of proper sandboxing / permissions breakthrough for the extensions is a real problem I don't believe has been solved yet.
    - sramkrishna 13y ago
      And that is being worked on: https://wiki.gnome.org/Events/Hackfests/WestCoastSummit2014 https://wiki.gnome.org/Events/Hackfests/WestCoastSummit2014 We have an entire stack showing up to fix things in the right places not just in GNOME itself.
  - rufugee 13y ago
    Barely usable? I'd hardly call it that. I find it very usable. I don't quite like the alt+tab default functionality, but barely usable is really a stretch. I find it a very productive environment with no extensions whatsoever. That said, I do use a few extensions, and I'm exploring writing ones as well. The fact that extensions are written in javascript is really nice (or awful, depending on how you feel about javascript). The built in debugger/console looking glass (type ALT+F2, then lg, the press enter) is very helpful, and window identification/selection is very simple. Being able to extend the environment in a relatively easy way with a scripting language is a big win in my book ymmv, but I find it to be a nice environment. I'm not 100% satisfied, but I'm far more satisfied with it than, say, OSX or Windows, and slightly more satisfied with it than Unity or KDE.
    - paulyg 13y ago
      For those complaining about the alt-tab thing maybe you don't know about alt-`. Alt-` cycles through windows/instances of the current app! I just learned about it two days ago and I've been using gnome 3 for a year (there is a lesson in there, why was this not publicized more?). On a more general note put me in the camp that feels gnome is getting better and better every release. I like what they have done with the header bars. Very clean interface. Initially i did nit like Gnome 3. I gave Unity and Cinnamon fair shots, 3 months each. Neither wowed me. Then I gave Gnome 3 another chance (it was 3.4 by then) and have not looked back.
      - JDShu 13y ago
        It's also worth mentioning that this behavior exists on OS X as well.
        ollyfg 13y ago
        And also on Unity (if you're into that).
        espadrine 13y ago
        And also on KDE. Wait, is Windows the only one not to have that implemented?
  - keithpeter 13y ago
    If we all posted a few minutes worth of screencam video showing the pain points in typical tasks, without compromising confidentiality, it might help developers understand the issues. http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=531271#p531271 http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=531271#p531271 Does anyone have any better references to usability research on Gnome Shell?
  - Mikeb85 13y ago
    Gnome is very usable for many of us. I'm tired of seeing the same 'it sucks as a productivity environment' comments. If it's not your preference, you can say that, but Gnome Shell is perfectly fine when it comes to productivity. Quick app switching, searching, app launching, etc... How do these things hurt productivity? I personally dislike KDE, but that's just my taste. Some people love XMonad or XFCE, and some people even like Unity. Dunno, I'm a developer and my workflow involves several different tools, Gnome Shell certainly doesn't hurt 'productivity'.
    - subsection1h 13y ago
      > I'm a developer and my workflow involves several different tools, Gnome Shell certainly doesn't hurt 'productivity'. I'm also a developer whose workflow involves several different tools. One of those tools is Firefox, and I currently have several hundred tabs open in more than a dozen Firefox windows. I want to be able to instantaneously switch from Emacs to a specific Firefox window. I don't want to switch from Emacs to Firefox and then switch to a specific Firefox window (e.g., using Alt+`) like some desktop environments force their users to do. The best solution I've found is to use a desktop environment or window manager that will display the Alt-Tab window list vertically with full titles displayed for all windows (which is similar to how I display tabs in Firefox using the Tree Style Tab extension). KDE and Openbox support this setup, and the last time I checked, Gnome didn't. So using Gnome would hurt my productivity.
      - droelf 13y ago
        I see your (valid) point but I am also positive that you could, if you wanted to, create an simple js plugin for gnome shell that would have the desired effect, as others have created alternative alt+tab switchers: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/15/alternatetab/ https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/15/alternatetab/
      - Mikeb85 13y ago
        While this may be an issue for you, I doubt having so many Firefox tabs open is all that common. I wouldn't consider this a failure of Gnome. Personally, having that many tabs open would make my head hurt. I'll generally have Vim open with a few open buffers, one browser window, one terminal, and the running program I'm working on...
  - sinkasapa 13y ago
    These days what do you need other than a web browser, terminal emulator and text editor? Gnome is similar in usability to TWM and so it works. ;-)
  - davidw 13y ago
    > Just the fact that people need a ton of shell extensions to make it barely usable is a problem in itself. You might give xfce a try, as that's more like "real Linux" if you're a hacker used to something like fvwm2 where you have pretty much total control over the desktop. I too am kind of disappointed in the "chasing Mac taillights" direction that Gnome has taken, dumbing things down. I guess it'd be ok if they were making significant inroads into the "mom" market where Macs are strong, but I don't think they are, and in the process seem to be losing some of the hacker market.
  - Pxtl 13y ago
    > Just the fact that people need a ton of shell extensions to make it barely usable is a problem in itself. Idunno, FireFox pretty nicely demonstrates that a simple, straightforward platform with an emphasis on extensions can be great. Your use-case doesn't necessarily match my use-case, and letting the users get lost in a sea of config files to customize them has kind of proven to just cause havoc... so why not focus on extensions?
    - dagw 13y ago
      Extensions per se are good and fine. The big problem with Gnome extensions is that the Gnome people aren't really treating them as first class citizens and happily break some of them every update. So each time a new version of Gnome comes out you either have to wait a few month while all your extensions get updated or go a few month without all your favorite extensions.
    - lmm 13y ago
      I think firefox lost its way because it focused on extensions for things that should have been browser core functionality. What does firefox stand for these days? Why would I use it over Opera or Konqueror?
  - stormbrew 13y ago
    One of the reasons I switched away from OSX a few years ago (not to Gnome Shell, to Mint and then later to i3wm) was because every new version of OSX required me to tweak more things and install more third party things to make it usable, and I figured if I was going to have to keep going down that road I might as well go whole hog to something designed for me to do that instead of something that fought me at every step [1]. [1] Did you know that in order to rebind cmd-tab on a mac, you have to kill the Dock of all things, run the program that binds cmd-tab, and then re-run the Dock? Every other key combo is explicitly configurable, afaik.
  - rbanffy 13y ago
    > Just a few weeks ago I tried Gnome 3 again (again!) and it still sucks as a productivity environment. I am sorry it sucks for you. For me, it works great.
- notproductive 13y ago
  Another happy Arch user here. I hope people stop harping on the GNOME team, at this point it should be clear to some end users that the gnome-shell interface has come together. 3.8 and 3.10 are beautiful once you install extensions the act of which could not be easier and browsing new extensions is kind of fun. The dev team has had terrible communication problems and I get pissed off when they remove stuff like transparency in gnome-terminal, but extensions often replace missing features (compiz wobble for example). Over time my Arch linux installs have become something I can show my friends and be proud of, this is in no small part thanks to Gnome developers. I wish more distros were able to experience bleeding edge gnome-shell and hopefully as time goes on they will. Also, when Debian stable users get moved to 3.8 and their transparent shell goes away hopefully someone like me or the above poster will be there to say, "grab the xcfe4-terminal and trust the developers decision to deprecate what they claim was unmaintainable code."
  - sramkrishna 13y ago
    GNOME has a continuous build system now, you can get images in cow2 format every day!
- teacup50 13y ago
  If you need a churning time-consuming stream of updates, the software wasn't written well. I'm looking for an alternative to OS X, but I want a stable OS that I can use to get work done. If anything, Apple has been shipping too much broken software, too often. The last thing I want to do is switch to a platform that actually embraces pushing out a constant stream of poorly thought out features and a slew of regressions.
  - dmix 13y ago
    If you want a stable distro, then obviously Arch Linux isn't for you. I use Debian for production machines (ie. work laptops). This is pretty much what everyone recommends re Arch.
    - zanny 13y ago
      I've had a lot of people use Manjaro and not run into issue. Packages are staggered enough that any bugs are usually found and sorted in the ~3 months between releases, but you never get into the Ubuntu 12.04 problem of "oh shit my system is so outdated everything will break if I dist-upgrade". Debian testing is also similar.
      - oinksoft 13y ago
        The problem with Manjaro package staggering is that it's based on fortune. The Manjaro team as far as I know does not maintain any packages not specific to Manjaro. After using Manjaro on my laptop for the better part of a year and running into lots of stability issues over the last few months, I think that the criticism about "aging packages like wine" is valid. I could deal with significant breakage in Xfce for a while, but when my wireless card (supported in the kernel) was unable to reliably connect to a wireless network, I had to toss Manjaro for good. If there's breakage in Arch, it will make it to Manjaro, and Arch packages seem to break more often these days. I think that the state of Linux desktop right now is bad. GNOME3 is a pretty toy and KDE4 is ugly and (in my experience) unstable. Xfce is getting heavy, so it seems like people are all going to *box DEs. There used to be much greater diversity of well-supported desktop distros, like MEPIS, that weren't just another layer over Ubuntu. Fedora seems to be the only decent distro for development right now: Fast mirrors, systemd for reasonable boot times, up-to-date packages, no distractions or consumer focus (Ubuntu), well-supported and relatively stable. I strongly recommend the MATE+Compiz spin: https://spins.fedoraproject.org/mate-compiz/ https://spins.fedoraproject.org/mate-compiz/
exacube 13y ago
I still don't understand why they insist on removing window-based task management when they continue to use window-based applications and workflows, so I will continue to complain about this
- GhotiFish 13y ago
  I'm confused, what's window based task management?
  - geminitojanus 13y ago
    Window-based task management is "Windows", App-based task management is "Metro". We spent the last 25 years of computer history teaching both the users and the computers how to multitask, only for the most recent user designers to try their damnedest to take it away from us.
    - derefr 13y ago
      > App-based task management is "Metro". App-based task management is also pre-CS5 Photoshop on OSX. Programs which have multiple windows per document need those windows brought to the front together.
  - shimon_e 13y ago
    He means stuff like minimize and maximize.
    - astn 13y ago
      You can do both in gnome without any tweaking.
      - sampo 13y ago
        After I maximize, and check something in the window, I really like to be able to minimize without moving the mouse. One needs a panel with window buttons for this. Yes, Gnome has panel addons, but they are ugly and rudimentary, and can only be placed at the bottom of the screen.
hhsnopek 13y ago
So these updates are only available for Ubuntu 14.04 and other flavors? I'm unable to upgrade from 3.10 to 3.12
- GhotiFish 13y ago
  I think these updates are available for everyone, I just don't think ubuntu is going to do it for you until a later release.
  - derefr 13y ago
    Not just Ubuntu; it's not even close to being packaged for debian-testing yet. (http://www.0d.be/debian/debian-gnome-3.12-status.html http://www.0d.be/debian/debian-gnome-3.12-status.html)
    - hhsnopek 13y ago
      Damn, they need to hurry up on that ^-^
- paulyg 13y ago
  You probably won't see packages for Ubuntu 13.10 b/c that only has support for another 3 months. But I expect to see a PPA pop up for 14.04 since its an LTS release.
- chatman 13y ago
  Available for Fedora 20 as well.
- magnetikonline 13y ago
  You won't even get them with 14.04LTS out of the box, but expect a PPA to fill the void once released. Really looking forward to the final 14.04 Ubuntu GNOME release next month. I have really grown to love GNOME 3 as my desktop of choice.
emehrkay 13y ago
So it is pronounced "ga-nome" and not "nome"? Interesting. It looks good too, I like the way modals open from a thin line to its full size.
- ssprang 13y ago
  Yep, just like GNU: https://www.gnu.org/pronunciation/pronunciation.html https://www.gnu.org/pronunciation/pronunciation.html
  - emehrkay 13y ago
    That was good info, thanks for sharing.
  - kremlin 13y ago
    Even though I'm fully aware of the 'correct' pronunciations, my preference for "Gee Enn You" and "Nome" is too strong. The standard way of pronouncing those is too cacophonous for me.
    - fixedd 13y ago
      I still pronounce it "new" and "nome" and I don't care :)
- BrindsleyQuives 13y ago
  Congratulations for making out that much from the voice-over on the video. I could barely understand a word she was saying. Sounded like a cat on helium being strangled.
rcthompson 13y ago
They talk about better Hi-res (i.e. "retina") display support. Does anyone have a screenshot or video of this working?
- rubiquity 13y ago
  I'm curious about this as well. Having a nice HiDPI laptop but being stuck using 1366x768 sucks :(
  - viseztrance 13y ago
    There are many tweaks that can help. For instance, I'm currently using gnome 3.10 on a 11.6 inch laptop at 1920x1080, without any major issues. For my setup, I've done the following: * Increased the font scaling in gnome-tweak-tool to 1.5 * Made the cursor larger with a setting in gconf (http://askubuntu.com/a/66216 http://askubuntu.com/a/66216) * Adjusted the zoom level in the firefox about:config. Updated layout.css.devPixelsPerPx to 1.6
- Andrex 13y ago
  Bottom of the release notes, kinda: https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.12/ https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.12/ https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.12/figures/hi-res-displays.png https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.12/figures/hi-re...
- magnetikonline 13y ago
  Screenshot of HiDPI in action here: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/03/top-12-features-gnome-3-12 http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/03/top-12-features-gnome-3-1...
  - chris_wot 13y ago
    That link is a slightly modified rehash of the release notes. They even use the same screenshots as the release notes!
jmhain 13y ago
If anybody uses Fedora 20 and wants to test out the new release, Richard Hughes set up a COPR for 3.12. I've been using it for a couple weeks without any major issues. http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2014/02/24/gnome-3-12-on-fedora-20/ http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2014/02/24/gnome-3-12-on-fedo...
webkike 13y ago
Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I love Gnome, and it just keeps improving. It's got some annoying issues, such as when the designers decide to willy-nilly drop important features inbetween releases (like the Ethernet connection indicator, and the backtracking in gparted), but it's been great otherwise. A genuinely good desktop manager for linux.
- broodbucket 13y ago
  No change they made ever had consequences as dire as when they removed transparency from GNOME Terminal. Never forget.
  - krakensden 13y ago
    It's sad, but I've switched to xterm
    - sramkrishna 13y ago
      a strange switch, xterm doesn't have transparency eitiher and as far as correctness goes, gnome-terminal is very correct compared to others. So I have no idea why you would switch to xterm.
- middleclick 13y ago
  When GNOME 3 came out, I was upset and hated it. Then I moved on to running i3 without a DE and I don't think I am using a DE again. It's surprising how little features of a DE I need. Right now, I have nothing that requires a DE.
  - massysett 13y ago
    The only thing I miss is power management and buttons. I get tired of futzing around to get my brightness buttons to work, and then a newer kernel changes the interfaces again.
    - 13y ago
sanimal 13y ago
Honestly I don't use any of the extensions anymore. I just install Docky and call it a day.
jifu 13y ago
In case there are some people who still avoid Gnome3 due to experiences from the early versions, I strongly recommend giving this one a chance. I myself was a Unity user for a couple of years because I liked the fact that they were trying to do something new. I had tried Gnome3 as well but the first versions were pretty messy. Now, though, after getting fed up with Canonical and switching to Manjaro (highly recommended as a fairly easy rolling release distro), I've been very positively surprised about Gnome's progress. It looks good, fits my usage patterns very well, and the minor annoyances I had were pretty much fixed via a couple of extensions.
AnthonBerg 13y ago
Hey what do you know – I find myself not caring very much. After using Gnome 2 for a long while as my main work desktop and actually really trying to use Gnome 3 for a while. Now I'm not even curious to know what's in the new release.
- mkhpalm 13y ago
  I understand the initial shock as a long-time user of gnome as my primary desktop. (since gnome 1) I was like you but now have to admit, since 3.8, I am very happy with all the changes. I prefer its look and feel over everything else these days.
nelmaven 13y ago
I've been a Gnome user since the start of the month and it has been the best Linux experience I ever had so far. I was thoroughly impressed by its performance too.
mixmastamyk 13y ago
There are many annoyances in these new unfinished desktops, but one I miss the most was the Gnome2 clock applet. A must if you have people in other timezones: http://i.stack.imgur.com/1Ftcd.png http://i.stack.imgur.com/1Ftcd.png Note the map with day/night marked. Allows one at a glance to figure out if it is a reasonable time to make contact. I've managed to get a version almost as good on a Saucy laptop, but now Locations doesn't stay open by default, and has some new bugs. These are the kinds of rich functionality that consistently get lost in the "reinvention shuffle" linux software goes thru every 5 years.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- nkuttler 13y ago
  That's why I don't use any of those fancy desktops, I don't tolerate it when stuff I use breaks. I have a dockapp from 1999 I don't want to live without. It's one of the reasons why I just use openbox without a DE. My desktop hasn't lost anything in more than a decade, since I switched from Win2k.
- krakensden 13y ago
  Gnome used to have lots of things like that that were just really wonderful touches. The calendar integration is still there, at least- if only I could get EDS to work with exchange...
- mgedmin 13y ago
  I miss the world clock too :( I wonder how hard it would be to write an extension.
chinhodado 13y ago
The best feature for me is automatic text reflow in terminal. It's finally here!
b6fan 13y ago
I think GNOME3 is breaking *nix philosophy: do one thing and do it well; to be highly configurable. You have freedom to use compiz in GNOME2, but not in 3. There are a lot of good GTK2 themes but gitg and d-feet have hard-coded styles so only default GNOME3 theme will look sane. Super+p is somewhat hard-coded and you cannot customize it ... and there are more annoying issues. I am happy that mate-desktop is still alive.
- pekk 13y ago
  everything is breaking *nix philosophy. systemd is the new hotness and it does everything. That philosophy is nearly dead, insofar as it ever lived.
- sramkrishna 13y ago
  No the difference is that GNOME is moving towards a 'product'. Everything is designed to work together, to be consistent everywhere. When you mix and match, you just get medicority because none of them were designed to work together at all. I would not call that even a Unix philosophy, it's just something that happened organically. Doing what GNOME is doing is hard. Making hard choices on what to keep and what not. Fixing the things in the other parts of the stack instead of band aiding it in their own.
e12e 13y ago
One of the best news for Gnome is their (updated/clarified) stance on portability, that I found linked in the section for developers[d] linked from the actual release notes[r]: http://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2014/02/19/on-portability/ http://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2014/02/19/on-portability/ "GNOME is not “Linux-only” and it never should be. People are running GNOME on FreeBSD, OpenBSD and very many other non-GNU/Linux systems. People are running GNOME on GNU/Linux systems that don’t have systemd. This will continue to be the case. We need to continue supporting these people." [d] https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.12/developers.html.en https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.12/developers.ht... [r] https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.12/ https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.12/
- qwerta 13y ago
  KDE apps runs on Windows...
  - dvirsky 13y ago
    "run"
- lmm 13y ago
  Those are encouraging words, but what do they mean in practice? E.g. are they reverting the changes that had gnome's login manager depending on systemd?
  - e12e 13y ago
    I read it like the intention is to introduce comparability layers for certain "rough" APIs such as logind, and have Gnome depend on those, rather than eg: "just" logind. I've yet been able to track down any recent comment from the bsd side of things (I don't follow the bsd-dev lists) -- so I'm not sure what the schedule is like.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
dvirsky 13y ago
If any Gnome developers are reading this - please disregard the bullshit (of course constructive criticism isn't bullshit) - you guys are doing an awesome job, and I wouldn't trade Gnome for any desktop environment out there. Period. Yes, including OSX. I think this will finally have me upgrade my 'buntu.
tenfingers 13y ago
Gnome is a perfect example of what designing with too much sense for aesthetics and no usage experience looks like. It's nice looking, yes. On the surface things seem to be good enough. But start using the software, and discover how little though most of the features have been given. Window cycling is one thing, but the issues go _way_ deeper than that. Small examples come from the file open/save dialog being into "Recent" mode by default, despite being totally useless since the dialog has no notion of what has been done outside of other applications (and come on, on Linux having a terminal open to script is pretty much the norm). There's an option to switch the dialog to directory mode (in "current cwd") [1], but of course there's no such fine-tuning in gtk3. I'm supporting users using Ubuntu in our facility, and they all hate this "recent" mode. [1] http://askubuntu.com/questions/63202/can-i-stop-apps-from-selecting-recently-used-by-default-in-file-chooser-dialog http://askubuntu.com/questions/63202/can-i-stop-apps-from-se... The list of gothas like this would be so awfully long that I stopped caring about Gnome first, and then Gtk3 entirely, since they are pretty much on the same development line of thought. Luckily, thanks to XDG and several other common practices, a full DE like Gnome or KDE is pretty much useless on Linux. There are some many alternatives to choose from, that any complaint is largely irrelevant. My suggestions to people liking Gnome though is this: dont' focus on looks, please try the alternatives. If you miss some "integration", ask for a standard or some consensus, not for any DE-specific feature.
- Avshalom 13y ago
  recent mode is absolutely awful. Especially in save. Also the lack of Delete/Rename means you can fuck something up (new directory) but can't fix it with out opening up a file browser, a problem that been known since 2.x days but no one has gotten around to fixing because apparently you have to go add support for it into gvfs then add the feature into the file picker.
- andor 13y ago
  but of course there's no such fine-tuning in gtk3 The startup-mode was apparently brought back in Gnome 3.10. https://mail.gnome.org/archives/commits-list/2012-November/msg05423.html https://mail.gnome.org/archives/commits-list/2012-November/m... https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/tree/gtk/org.gtk.Settings.FileChooser.gschema.xml?h=gtk-3-10#n98 https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/tree/gtk/org.gtk.Settings....
orkoden 13y ago
Gnome is usable only with gnome do. http://do.cooperteam.net http://do.cooperteam.net

196 points by bkor 13y ago

dmix 13y ago

Looks great. I've been extremely happy with Gnome UI after switching from OSX. It's fun being able to play with a desktop that is constantly improving on a rolling-release platforms like Arch Linux, where new updates stream in constantly. Instead of having to wait a year or more for big waterfall releases like OSX (Mavericks was also pretty disappointing). My only complaint is how every gnome upgrade the majority of gnome shell extensions break and the dev community is really slow to update them.

gtirloni 13y ago
Just the fact that people need a ton of shell extensions to make it barely usable is a problem in itself. The fact that they break (and some are let to rotten) after every major release is just to beat a dead body. Just a few weeks ago I tried Gnome 3 again (again!) and it still sucks as a productivity environment. I have better things to do. But as a geek, I'll be checking Gnome 3 again maybe in a year or more. No holding my breath for any surprises.
- Touche 13y ago
  Why do you think people need a ton of shell extensions? What is missing from base?
  - hrkristian 13y ago
    I've got about ten extensions running, most of them I feel makes sense aren't in the base. The one exception is one modifying alt-tab behavior so it doesn't group programs on different workspaces together. Honestly, that's the one behavior I cannot understand exists in the first place, makes navigating by keyboard nigh impossible.
    - johnchristopher 13y ago
      > The one exception is one modifying alt-tab behavior so it doesn't group programs on different workspaces together. Honestly, that's the one behavior I cannot understand exists in the first place, makes navigating by keyboard nigh impossible. To each its own but I really like the fact I can alt-tab between all applications as I tend to stick one application per screen because I mostly use a 1024x600 monitor. Thinking about it can see how that would be a problem with larger resolutions though. You would have to mentally discard icons that aren't relevant to the screen you are looking at. I like gnome but I think Unity solved that problem in a more elegant way (icons on the dock can recall any applications whatever the screen it's living on).
    - amboar 13y ago
      As paulyg mentioned above, you can use Alt-` (tilde) to cycle through multiple instances of an application after using Alt-Tab to select the group. I think it actually make the experience less tedious.
      - hrkristian 13y ago
        Indeed, or Alt-| in my case (Norwegian layout), and it works for currently focused application, as well. Try doing that with multiple instances (3+) of your browser though. I've got general browsing on WS1, Netflix on WS2, tutorials and the likes on WS3, and usually Gmail etc on WS4. Imagine cycling through those, and sometimes more for various reasons, without separating by workspace. Tedious, tedious, tedious.
        amboar 13y ago
        Right. Yes - I missed the workspace specific part of your complaint before replying - sorry about that.
- buzaga41 13y ago
  It's productive to me. I've tried Unity some times already and can't get used to it and at the moment I'm on Gnome Classic because of an issue when upgrading and I'm missing Gnome 3, so maybe each person has their preferences?
- hahainternet 13y ago
  > Just the fact that people need a ton of shell extensions to make it barely usable is a problem in itself Other than 'native window placement' I find that pretty much every extension I have installed is a customisation where I want something to work in a particular way. It's not that Gnome is unusable by default, it's just more the minimal set of features that everyone uses. For example, including a time tracker on the top bar by default would be wasteful, as would a timer. I want both of these though, so I go to a website and click a button and they work. However, the lack of proper sandboxing / permissions breakthrough for the extensions is a real problem I don't believe has been solved yet.
  - sramkrishna 13y ago
    And that is being worked on: https://wiki.gnome.org/Events/Hackfests/WestCoastSummit2014 https://wiki.gnome.org/Events/Hackfests/WestCoastSummit2014 We have an entire stack showing up to fix things in the right places not just in GNOME itself.
- rufugee 13y ago
  Barely usable? I'd hardly call it that. I find it very usable. I don't quite like the alt+tab default functionality, but barely usable is really a stretch. I find it a very productive environment with no extensions whatsoever. That said, I do use a few extensions, and I'm exploring writing ones as well. The fact that extensions are written in javascript is really nice (or awful, depending on how you feel about javascript). The built in debugger/console looking glass (type ALT+F2, then lg, the press enter) is very helpful, and window identification/selection is very simple. Being able to extend the environment in a relatively easy way with a scripting language is a big win in my book ymmv, but I find it to be a nice environment. I'm not 100% satisfied, but I'm far more satisfied with it than, say, OSX or Windows, and slightly more satisfied with it than Unity or KDE.
  - paulyg 13y ago
    For those complaining about the alt-tab thing maybe you don't know about alt-`. Alt-` cycles through windows/instances of the current app! I just learned about it two days ago and I've been using gnome 3 for a year (there is a lesson in there, why was this not publicized more?). On a more general note put me in the camp that feels gnome is getting better and better every release. I like what they have done with the header bars. Very clean interface. Initially i did nit like Gnome 3. I gave Unity and Cinnamon fair shots, 3 months each. Neither wowed me. Then I gave Gnome 3 another chance (it was 3.4 by then) and have not looked back.
    - JDShu 13y ago
      It's also worth mentioning that this behavior exists on OS X as well.
      - ollyfg 13y ago
        And also on Unity (if you're into that).
        espadrine 13y ago
        And also on KDE. Wait, is Windows the only one not to have that implemented?
- keithpeter 13y ago
  If we all posted a few minutes worth of screencam video showing the pain points in typical tasks, without compromising confidentiality, it might help developers understand the issues. http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=531271#p531271 http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=531271#p531271 Does anyone have any better references to usability research on Gnome Shell?
- Mikeb85 13y ago
  Gnome is very usable for many of us. I'm tired of seeing the same 'it sucks as a productivity environment' comments. If it's not your preference, you can say that, but Gnome Shell is perfectly fine when it comes to productivity. Quick app switching, searching, app launching, etc... How do these things hurt productivity? I personally dislike KDE, but that's just my taste. Some people love XMonad or XFCE, and some people even like Unity. Dunno, I'm a developer and my workflow involves several different tools, Gnome Shell certainly doesn't hurt 'productivity'.
  - subsection1h 13y ago
    > I'm a developer and my workflow involves several different tools, Gnome Shell certainly doesn't hurt 'productivity'. I'm also a developer whose workflow involves several different tools. One of those tools is Firefox, and I currently have several hundred tabs open in more than a dozen Firefox windows. I want to be able to instantaneously switch from Emacs to a specific Firefox window. I don't want to switch from Emacs to Firefox and then switch to a specific Firefox window (e.g., using Alt+`) like some desktop environments force their users to do. The best solution I've found is to use a desktop environment or window manager that will display the Alt-Tab window list vertically with full titles displayed for all windows (which is similar to how I display tabs in Firefox using the Tree Style Tab extension). KDE and Openbox support this setup, and the last time I checked, Gnome didn't. So using Gnome would hurt my productivity.
    - droelf 13y ago
      I see your (valid) point but I am also positive that you could, if you wanted to, create an simple js plugin for gnome shell that would have the desired effect, as others have created alternative alt+tab switchers: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/15/alternatetab/ https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/15/alternatetab/
    - Mikeb85 13y ago
      While this may be an issue for you, I doubt having so many Firefox tabs open is all that common. I wouldn't consider this a failure of Gnome. Personally, having that many tabs open would make my head hurt. I'll generally have Vim open with a few open buffers, one browser window, one terminal, and the running program I'm working on...
- sinkasapa 13y ago
  These days what do you need other than a web browser, terminal emulator and text editor? Gnome is similar in usability to TWM and so it works. ;-)
- davidw 13y ago
  > Just the fact that people need a ton of shell extensions to make it barely usable is a problem in itself. You might give xfce a try, as that's more like "real Linux" if you're a hacker used to something like fvwm2 where you have pretty much total control over the desktop. I too am kind of disappointed in the "chasing Mac taillights" direction that Gnome has taken, dumbing things down. I guess it'd be ok if they were making significant inroads into the "mom" market where Macs are strong, but I don't think they are, and in the process seem to be losing some of the hacker market.
- Pxtl 13y ago
  > Just the fact that people need a ton of shell extensions to make it barely usable is a problem in itself. Idunno, FireFox pretty nicely demonstrates that a simple, straightforward platform with an emphasis on extensions can be great. Your use-case doesn't necessarily match my use-case, and letting the users get lost in a sea of config files to customize them has kind of proven to just cause havoc... so why not focus on extensions?
  - dagw 13y ago
    Extensions per se are good and fine. The big problem with Gnome extensions is that the Gnome people aren't really treating them as first class citizens and happily break some of them every update. So each time a new version of Gnome comes out you either have to wait a few month while all your extensions get updated or go a few month without all your favorite extensions.
  - lmm 13y ago
    I think firefox lost its way because it focused on extensions for things that should have been browser core functionality. What does firefox stand for these days? Why would I use it over Opera or Konqueror?
- stormbrew 13y ago
  One of the reasons I switched away from OSX a few years ago (not to Gnome Shell, to Mint and then later to i3wm) was because every new version of OSX required me to tweak more things and install more third party things to make it usable, and I figured if I was going to have to keep going down that road I might as well go whole hog to something designed for me to do that instead of something that fought me at every step [1]. [1] Did you know that in order to rebind cmd-tab on a mac, you have to kill the Dock of all things, run the program that binds cmd-tab, and then re-run the Dock? Every other key combo is explicitly configurable, afaik.
- rbanffy 13y ago
  > Just a few weeks ago I tried Gnome 3 again (again!) and it still sucks as a productivity environment. I am sorry it sucks for you. For me, it works great.
notproductive 13y ago
Another happy Arch user here. I hope people stop harping on the GNOME team, at this point it should be clear to some end users that the gnome-shell interface has come together. 3.8 and 3.10 are beautiful once you install extensions the act of which could not be easier and browsing new extensions is kind of fun. The dev team has had terrible communication problems and I get pissed off when they remove stuff like transparency in gnome-terminal, but extensions often replace missing features (compiz wobble for example). Over time my Arch linux installs have become something I can show my friends and be proud of, this is in no small part thanks to Gnome developers. I wish more distros were able to experience bleeding edge gnome-shell and hopefully as time goes on they will. Also, when Debian stable users get moved to 3.8 and their transparent shell goes away hopefully someone like me or the above poster will be there to say, "grab the xcfe4-terminal and trust the developers decision to deprecate what they claim was unmaintainable code."
- sramkrishna 13y ago
  GNOME has a continuous build system now, you can get images in cow2 format every day!
teacup50 13y ago
If you need a churning time-consuming stream of updates, the software wasn't written well. I'm looking for an alternative to OS X, but I want a stable OS that I can use to get work done. If anything, Apple has been shipping too much broken software, too often. The last thing I want to do is switch to a platform that actually embraces pushing out a constant stream of poorly thought out features and a slew of regressions.
- dmix 13y ago
  If you want a stable distro, then obviously Arch Linux isn't for you. I use Debian for production machines (ie. work laptops). This is pretty much what everyone recommends re Arch.
  - zanny 13y ago
    I've had a lot of people use Manjaro and not run into issue. Packages are staggered enough that any bugs are usually found and sorted in the ~3 months between releases, but you never get into the Ubuntu 12.04 problem of "oh shit my system is so outdated everything will break if I dist-upgrade". Debian testing is also similar.
    - oinksoft 13y ago
      The problem with Manjaro package staggering is that it's based on fortune. The Manjaro team as far as I know does not maintain any packages not specific to Manjaro. After using Manjaro on my laptop for the better part of a year and running into lots of stability issues over the last few months, I think that the criticism about "aging packages like wine" is valid. I could deal with significant breakage in Xfce for a while, but when my wireless card (supported in the kernel) was unable to reliably connect to a wireless network, I had to toss Manjaro for good. If there's breakage in Arch, it will make it to Manjaro, and Arch packages seem to break more often these days. I think that the state of Linux desktop right now is bad. GNOME3 is a pretty toy and KDE4 is ugly and (in my experience) unstable. Xfce is getting heavy, so it seems like people are all going to *box DEs. There used to be much greater diversity of well-supported desktop distros, like MEPIS, that weren't just another layer over Ubuntu. Fedora seems to be the only decent distro for development right now: Fast mirrors, systemd for reasonable boot times, up-to-date packages, no distractions or consumer focus (Ubuntu), well-supported and relatively stable. I strongly recommend the MATE+Compiz spin: https://spins.fedoraproject.org/mate-compiz/ https://spins.fedoraproject.org/mate-compiz/

exacube 13y ago

I still don't understand why they insist on removing window-based task management when they continue to use window-based applications and workflows, so I will continue to complain about this

GhotiFish 13y ago
I'm confused, what's window based task management?
- geminitojanus 13y ago
  Window-based task management is "Windows", App-based task management is "Metro". We spent the last 25 years of computer history teaching both the users and the computers how to multitask, only for the most recent user designers to try their damnedest to take it away from us.
  - derefr 13y ago
    > App-based task management is "Metro". App-based task management is also pre-CS5 Photoshop on OSX. Programs which have multiple windows per document need those windows brought to the front together.
- shimon_e 13y ago
  He means stuff like minimize and maximize.
  - astn 13y ago
    You can do both in gnome without any tweaking.
    - sampo 13y ago
      After I maximize, and check something in the window, I really like to be able to minimize without moving the mouse. One needs a panel with window buttons for this. Yes, Gnome has panel addons, but they are ugly and rudimentary, and can only be placed at the bottom of the screen.

hhsnopek 13y ago

So these updates are only available for Ubuntu 14.04 and other flavors? I'm unable to upgrade from 3.10 to 3.12

GhotiFish 13y ago
I think these updates are available for everyone, I just don't think ubuntu is going to do it for you until a later release.
- derefr 13y ago
  Not just Ubuntu; it's not even close to being packaged for debian-testing yet. (http://www.0d.be/debian/debian-gnome-3.12-status.html http://www.0d.be/debian/debian-gnome-3.12-status.html)
  - hhsnopek 13y ago
    Damn, they need to hurry up on that ^-^
paulyg 13y ago
You probably won't see packages for Ubuntu 13.10 b/c that only has support for another 3 months. But I expect to see a PPA pop up for 14.04 since its an LTS release.
chatman 13y ago
Available for Fedora 20 as well.
magnetikonline 13y ago
You won't even get them with 14.04LTS out of the box, but expect a PPA to fill the void once released. Really looking forward to the final 14.04 Ubuntu GNOME release next month. I have really grown to love GNOME 3 as my desktop of choice.

emehrkay 13y ago

So it is pronounced "ga-nome" and not "nome"? Interesting. It looks good too, I like the way modals open from a thin line to its full size.

ssprang 13y ago
Yep, just like GNU: https://www.gnu.org/pronunciation/pronunciation.html https://www.gnu.org/pronunciation/pronunciation.html
- emehrkay 13y ago
  That was good info, thanks for sharing.
- kremlin 13y ago
  Even though I'm fully aware of the 'correct' pronunciations, my preference for "Gee Enn You" and "Nome" is too strong. The standard way of pronouncing those is too cacophonous for me.
  - fixedd 13y ago
    I still pronounce it "new" and "nome" and I don't care :)
BrindsleyQuives 13y ago
Congratulations for making out that much from the voice-over on the video. I could barely understand a word she was saying. Sounded like a cat on helium being strangled.

rcthompson 13y ago

They talk about better Hi-res (i.e. "retina") display support. Does anyone have a screenshot or video of this working?

rubiquity 13y ago
I'm curious about this as well. Having a nice HiDPI laptop but being stuck using 1366x768 sucks :(
- viseztrance 13y ago
  There are many tweaks that can help. For instance, I'm currently using gnome 3.10 on a 11.6 inch laptop at 1920x1080, without any major issues. For my setup, I've done the following: * Increased the font scaling in gnome-tweak-tool to 1.5 * Made the cursor larger with a setting in gconf (http://askubuntu.com/a/66216 http://askubuntu.com/a/66216) * Adjusted the zoom level in the firefox about:config. Updated layout.css.devPixelsPerPx to 1.6
Andrex 13y ago
Bottom of the release notes, kinda: https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.12/ https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.12/ https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.12/figures/hi-res-displays.png https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.12/figures/hi-re...
magnetikonline 13y ago
Screenshot of HiDPI in action here: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/03/top-12-features-gnome-3-12 http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/03/top-12-features-gnome-3-1...
- chris_wot 13y ago
  That link is a slightly modified rehash of the release notes. They even use the same screenshots as the release notes!

jmhain 13y ago

If anybody uses Fedora 20 and wants to test out the new release, Richard Hughes set up a COPR for 3.12. I've been using it for a couple weeks without any major issues. http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2014/02/24/gnome-3-12-on-fedora-20/ http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2014/02/24/gnome-3-12-on-fedo...

webkike 13y ago

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I love Gnome, and it just keeps improving. It's got some annoying issues, such as when the designers decide to willy-nilly drop important features inbetween releases (like the Ethernet connection indicator, and the backtracking in gparted), but it's been great otherwise. A genuinely good desktop manager for linux.

broodbucket 13y ago
No change they made ever had consequences as dire as when they removed transparency from GNOME Terminal. Never forget.
- krakensden 13y ago
  It's sad, but I've switched to xterm
  - sramkrishna 13y ago
    a strange switch, xterm doesn't have transparency eitiher and as far as correctness goes, gnome-terminal is very correct compared to others. So I have no idea why you would switch to xterm.
middleclick 13y ago
When GNOME 3 came out, I was upset and hated it. Then I moved on to running i3 without a DE and I don't think I am using a DE again. It's surprising how little features of a DE I need. Right now, I have nothing that requires a DE.
- massysett 13y ago
  The only thing I miss is power management and buttons. I get tired of futzing around to get my brightness buttons to work, and then a newer kernel changes the interfaces again.
  - 13y ago

sanimal 13y ago

Honestly I don't use any of the extensions anymore. I just install Docky and call it a day.

jifu 13y ago

In case there are some people who still avoid Gnome3 due to experiences from the early versions, I strongly recommend giving this one a chance. I myself was a Unity user for a couple of years because I liked the fact that they were trying to do something new. I had tried Gnome3 as well but the first versions were pretty messy. Now, though, after getting fed up with Canonical and switching to Manjaro (highly recommended as a fairly easy rolling release distro), I've been very positively surprised about Gnome's progress. It looks good, fits my usage patterns very well, and the minor annoyances I had were pretty much fixed via a couple of extensions.

AnthonBerg 13y ago

Hey what do you know – I find myself not caring very much. After using Gnome 2 for a long while as my main work desktop and actually really trying to use Gnome 3 for a while. Now I'm not even curious to know what's in the new release.

mkhpalm 13y ago
I understand the initial shock as a long-time user of gnome as my primary desktop. (since gnome 1) I was like you but now have to admit, since 3.8, I am very happy with all the changes. I prefer its look and feel over everything else these days.

nelmaven 13y ago

I've been a Gnome user since the start of the month and it has been the best Linux experience I ever had so far. I was thoroughly impressed by its performance too.

mixmastamyk 13y ago

There are many annoyances in these new unfinished desktops, but one I miss the most was the Gnome2 clock applet. A must if you have people in other timezones: http://i.stack.imgur.com/1Ftcd.png http://i.stack.imgur.com/1Ftcd.png Note the map with day/night marked. Allows one at a glance to figure out if it is a reasonable time to make contact. I've managed to get a version almost as good on a Saucy laptop, but now Locations doesn't stay open by default, and has some new bugs. These are the kinds of rich functionality that consistently get lost in the "reinvention shuffle" linux software goes thru every 5 years.

deleted 13y ago
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nkuttler 13y ago
That's why I don't use any of those fancy desktops, I don't tolerate it when stuff I use breaks. I have a dockapp from 1999 I don't want to live without. It's one of the reasons why I just use openbox without a DE. My desktop hasn't lost anything in more than a decade, since I switched from Win2k.
krakensden 13y ago
Gnome used to have lots of things like that that were just really wonderful touches. The calendar integration is still there, at least- if only I could get EDS to work with exchange...
mgedmin 13y ago
I miss the world clock too :( I wonder how hard it would be to write an extension.

chinhodado 13y ago

The best feature for me is automatic text reflow in terminal. It's finally here!

b6fan 13y ago

I think GNOME3 is breaking *nix philosophy: do one thing and do it well; to be highly configurable. You have freedom to use compiz in GNOME2, but not in 3. There are a lot of good GTK2 themes but gitg and d-feet have hard-coded styles so only default GNOME3 theme will look sane. Super+p is somewhat hard-coded and you cannot customize it ... and there are more annoying issues. I am happy that mate-desktop is still alive.

pekk 13y ago
everything is breaking *nix philosophy. systemd is the new hotness and it does everything. That philosophy is nearly dead, insofar as it ever lived.
sramkrishna 13y ago
No the difference is that GNOME is moving towards a 'product'. Everything is designed to work together, to be consistent everywhere. When you mix and match, you just get medicority because none of them were designed to work together at all. I would not call that even a Unix philosophy, it's just something that happened organically. Doing what GNOME is doing is hard. Making hard choices on what to keep and what not. Fixing the things in the other parts of the stack instead of band aiding it in their own.

e12e 13y ago

One of the best news for Gnome is their (updated/clarified) stance on portability, that I found linked in the section for developers[d] linked from the actual release notes[r]: http://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2014/02/19/on-portability/ http://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2014/02/19/on-portability/ "GNOME is not “Linux-only” and it never should be. People are running GNOME on FreeBSD, OpenBSD and very many other non-GNU/Linux systems. People are running GNOME on GNU/Linux systems that don’t have systemd. This will continue to be the case. We need to continue supporting these people." [d] https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.12/developers.html.en https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.12/developers.ht... [r] https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.12/ https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.12/

qwerta 13y ago
KDE apps runs on Windows...
- dvirsky 13y ago
  "run"
lmm 13y ago
Those are encouraging words, but what do they mean in practice? E.g. are they reverting the changes that had gnome's login manager depending on systemd?
- e12e 13y ago
  I read it like the intention is to introduce comparability layers for certain "rough" APIs such as logind, and have Gnome depend on those, rather than eg: "just" logind. I've yet been able to track down any recent comment from the bsd side of things (I don't follow the bsd-dev lists) -- so I'm not sure what the schedule is like.

deleted 13y ago

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dvirsky 13y ago

If any Gnome developers are reading this - please disregard the bullshit (of course constructive criticism isn't bullshit) - you guys are doing an awesome job, and I wouldn't trade Gnome for any desktop environment out there. Period. Yes, including OSX. I think this will finally have me upgrade my 'buntu.

tenfingers 13y ago

Gnome is a perfect example of what designing with too much sense for aesthetics and no usage experience looks like. It's nice looking, yes. On the surface things seem to be good enough. But start using the software, and discover how little though most of the features have been given. Window cycling is one thing, but the issues go _way_ deeper than that. Small examples come from the file open/save dialog being into "Recent" mode by default, despite being totally useless since the dialog has no notion of what has been done outside of other applications (and come on, on Linux having a terminal open to script is pretty much the norm). There's an option to switch the dialog to directory mode (in "current cwd") [1], but of course there's no such fine-tuning in gtk3. I'm supporting users using Ubuntu in our facility, and they all hate this "recent" mode. [1] http://askubuntu.com/questions/63202/can-i-stop-apps-from-selecting-recently-used-by-default-in-file-chooser-dialog http://askubuntu.com/questions/63202/can-i-stop-apps-from-se... The list of gothas like this would be so awfully long that I stopped caring about Gnome first, and then Gtk3 entirely, since they are pretty much on the same development line of thought. Luckily, thanks to XDG and several other common practices, a full DE like Gnome or KDE is pretty much useless on Linux. There are some many alternatives to choose from, that any complaint is largely irrelevant. My suggestions to people liking Gnome though is this: dont' focus on looks, please try the alternatives. If you miss some "integration", ask for a standard or some consensus, not for any DE-specific feature.

Avshalom 13y ago
recent mode is absolutely awful. Especially in save. Also the lack of Delete/Rename means you can fuck something up (new directory) but can't fix it with out opening up a file browser, a problem that been known since 2.x days but no one has gotten around to fixing because apparently you have to go add support for it into gvfs then add the feature into the file picker.
andor 13y ago
but of course there's no such fine-tuning in gtk3 The startup-mode was apparently brought back in Gnome 3.10. https://mail.gnome.org/archives/commits-list/2012-November/msg05423.html https://mail.gnome.org/archives/commits-list/2012-November/m... https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/tree/gtk/org.gtk.Settings.FileChooser.gschema.xml?h=gtk-3-10#n98 https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/tree/gtk/org.gtk.Settings....

orkoden 13y ago

Gnome is usable only with gnome do. http://do.cooperteam.net http://do.cooperteam.net