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I always figured that if I had to go to prison, I would rather solitary. As long as you can get decent books and have a TV, which is typical in the US, it soun

I always figured that if I had to go to prison, I would rather solitary. As long as you can get decent books and have a TV, which is typical in the US, it sounds vastly better than having to sleep in a common area with dozens of real criminals (also typical enough). It doesn't surprise me that men who get solitary for violent infractions hate it. These are hyper-social people, who need continuous interaction with others, whether as a friend or a competitor or a predator. By contrast, I can go weeks without speaking to a person. It just doesn't sound that bad, relatively. Obviously, I'm speculating. But a real test, taking ordinary people and subjecting them either to solitary or a confined population of thugs, and comparing the results, would be pretty unethical. At the same time, you can neither trust the personal account of a woman in extraordinary circumstances, nor those of the most violent, probably psychopathic, criminals.

acjohnson55 13y ago
At the same time, you can neither trust the personal account of a woman in extraordinary circumstances, nor those of the most violent, probably psychopathic, criminals. Fortunately (or perhaps, unfortunately), there are plenty of other sorts of people who've spent serious time in solitary who can corroborate the horror. And even assuming everyone in prison is guilty of some offense, just because someone committed a crime doesn't justify inflicting psychological trauma on them.
microjesus 13y ago
Someone down-vote this troll.
- microjesus 13y ago
  Eeek, I was replying to someone in the thread, whoops.
sillysaurus3 13y ago
The jail guards usually won't let you have a nice time in prison. If they see that you're enjoying something, they feel it's their job to take it away from you.
agumonkey 13y ago
I often think the same thing, I'd prefer to avoid the prison crowd as much as possible. I had runs of weeks without leaving my bedroom[0], which is not larger than a cell too. But some words from the woman in the article are hitting me. I also feel that without knowing it I'm $something deprived by this lifestyle. My brain isn't clicking the way it was when I was having a lot more social interaction, even though it was a big weight on my mind (randomness/fluidity of people and social interaction doesn't fit well with the way my brain is structured[1]). And often I can read things but they don't reach deep in my brain. I thought it was just laziness and lack of motivation on my side, but maybe ... maybe .. Also, right now I'm somehow(see [1]) isolated by my own will. But if held in jail by an external agent I'm not sure I would "enjoy" it as much. [0] internet is very keen on providing you things to do all night long, which is very neat, the peace of the night is something I liked a lot at that time, and soon you live in the opposite timezone, sleeping the day etc etc
- EGreg 13y ago
  The difference is you have internet and a computer in your bedroom. Inmates may be denied even a paper and pencil.
  - agumonkey 13y ago
    My computer is to read and listen music. She said she had books. No music though. And in the end it didn't matter because the lack of human interaction made her enable to enjoy or even understand anything. I agree that the automatic solitary => no object was unexpected to me. I read many times people could read and learn in prison. Too bad you can't blend both slight isolation and learning.
    - EGreg 13y ago
      Do you use your computer to interact online?
      - agumonkey 13y ago
        Meta question detected, I must agree. But it's also very crude and shallow compared to physical interaction.
PavlovsCat 13y ago
> ordinary people As compared to whom? People who like to tinker alone and read a lot? Those are ordinary, too. > trust the personal account of a woman in extraordinary circumstances I'd rather do that, than trust my own imagination, or the one of people on HN. > As long as you can get decent books and have a TV That won't protect you from being unable to focus attention and developing mental fixations.
EGreg 13y ago
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/29/us/29jail.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/29/us/29jail.html?pagewanted=...
VMG 13y ago
Here it is everybody, this comment is the reason why we still have solitary confinement. People think it's just like having a lot of free time to yourself.
- zacinbusiness 13y ago
  I think it's that people have a hypothetical difficult choice. In gen-pop you can get stabbed to death or raped or beaten because while there are a few social heroes fighting the system that wind up in prison there are also killers and thugs. So in a hypothetical you can take the risk of losing your mind to the crushing solitude or risk being killed by a gang member iniate. Either way, you're in a bad situation.
  - sentenza 13y ago
    Solitary is worse. Sticks and stones will break your bones, but if your personality crumbles away, you will lose _you_.
    - zacinbusiness 13y ago
      Very true. And honestly I'd rather be stabbed to death (I think) than go nuts. Especially if I were aware of it. This is why I'm terrified of things like Alzheimer's.
  - e12e 13y ago
    Try to remember that while prison isn't pleasant by any stretch, life isn't like a tv series or movie either. As far as I can tell (from what I've read) some of the worst parts of the US prison system, are the mega-jails that you are sent to before sentencing. I very, very much doubt that most people (even those that enjoy books etc) would prefer solitary confinement to some form of gen-pop. We are social creatures, and being completely alone, without being able to do anything about our situation (not by choice) is quite terrible when it stretches out over time.
  - VMG 13y ago
    That's not all an argument for mandatory solitary confinement. That's an argument for a better prison system.

acjohnson55 13y ago

At the same time, you can neither trust the personal account of a woman in extraordinary circumstances, nor those of the most violent, probably psychopathic, criminals. Fortunately (or perhaps, unfortunately), there are plenty of other sorts of people who've spent serious time in solitary who can corroborate the horror. And even assuming everyone in prison is guilty of some offense, just because someone committed a crime doesn't justify inflicting psychological trauma on them.

microjesus 13y ago

Someone down-vote this troll.

microjesus 13y ago
Eeek, I was replying to someone in the thread, whoops.

sillysaurus3 13y ago

The jail guards usually won't let you have a nice time in prison. If they see that you're enjoying something, they feel it's their job to take it away from you.

agumonkey 13y ago

I often think the same thing, I'd prefer to avoid the prison crowd as much as possible. I had runs of weeks without leaving my bedroom[0], which is not larger than a cell too. But some words from the woman in the article are hitting me. I also feel that without knowing it I'm $something deprived by this lifestyle. My brain isn't clicking the way it was when I was having a lot more social interaction, even though it was a big weight on my mind (randomness/fluidity of people and social interaction doesn't fit well with the way my brain is structured[1]). And often I can read things but they don't reach deep in my brain. I thought it was just laziness and lack of motivation on my side, but maybe ... maybe .. Also, right now I'm somehow(see [1]) isolated by my own will. But if held in jail by an external agent I'm not sure I would "enjoy" it as much. [0] internet is very keen on providing you things to do all night long, which is very neat, the peace of the night is something I liked a lot at that time, and soon you live in the opposite timezone, sleeping the day etc etc

EGreg 13y ago
The difference is you have internet and a computer in your bedroom. Inmates may be denied even a paper and pencil.
- agumonkey 13y ago
  My computer is to read and listen music. She said she had books. No music though. And in the end it didn't matter because the lack of human interaction made her enable to enjoy or even understand anything. I agree that the automatic solitary => no object was unexpected to me. I read many times people could read and learn in prison. Too bad you can't blend both slight isolation and learning.
  - EGreg 13y ago
    Do you use your computer to interact online?
    - agumonkey 13y ago
      Meta question detected, I must agree. But it's also very crude and shallow compared to physical interaction.

PavlovsCat 13y ago

> ordinary people As compared to whom? People who like to tinker alone and read a lot? Those are ordinary, too. > trust the personal account of a woman in extraordinary circumstances I'd rather do that, than trust my own imagination, or the one of people on HN. > As long as you can get decent books and have a TV That won't protect you from being unable to focus attention and developing mental fixations.

EGreg 13y ago

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/29/us/29jail.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/29/us/29jail.html?pagewanted=...

VMG 13y ago

Here it is everybody, this comment is the reason why we still have solitary confinement. People think it's just like having a lot of free time to yourself.

zacinbusiness 13y ago
I think it's that people have a hypothetical difficult choice. In gen-pop you can get stabbed to death or raped or beaten because while there are a few social heroes fighting the system that wind up in prison there are also killers and thugs. So in a hypothetical you can take the risk of losing your mind to the crushing solitude or risk being killed by a gang member iniate. Either way, you're in a bad situation.
- sentenza 13y ago
  Solitary is worse. Sticks and stones will break your bones, but if your personality crumbles away, you will lose _you_.
  - zacinbusiness 13y ago
    Very true. And honestly I'd rather be stabbed to death (I think) than go nuts. Especially if I were aware of it. This is why I'm terrified of things like Alzheimer's.
- e12e 13y ago
  Try to remember that while prison isn't pleasant by any stretch, life isn't like a tv series or movie either. As far as I can tell (from what I've read) some of the worst parts of the US prison system, are the mega-jails that you are sent to before sentencing. I very, very much doubt that most people (even those that enjoy books etc) would prefer solitary confinement to some form of gen-pop. We are social creatures, and being completely alone, without being able to do anything about our situation (not by choice) is quite terrible when it stretches out over time.
- VMG 13y ago
  That's not all an argument for mandatory solitary confinement. That's an argument for a better prison system.