7 ms·

Why I killed my standing desk

56 points by cormullion 13y ago

dan_bk 13y ago
What you need is a standing desk that adopts to YOU, not the other way round. Here's the one I have been using for approx. 2 years now and I can tell you I will NEVER go back to a sitting-only desk: http://www.ergotron.com/ProductsDetails/tabid/65/PRDID/320/language/en-US/Default.aspx http://www.ergotron.com/ProductsDetails/tabid/65/PRDID/320/l... There are variations of this model available, but the main points are: 1. Screen (even if laptop) and keyboard/mouse are separated so everything is exactly at the correct height (= ergonomic, won't become a pain!) 2. You can pull up (and push down) the whole thing very easily, with just 1 hand/no force: This means you can change whenever you feel the slightest issue. Changing every 10 minutes easily becomes a healthy no-brainer routine.
keithpeter 13y ago
"After two weeks, I was able to stand for about four hours a day, but I still needed to take multiple breaks." I work as a teacher. I don't sit down much in a typical working day, so I found that sentence strange to say the least. Then I realised that I don't stand still ever in the classroom. I'm effectively walking around my patch of savannah all day like our ancestors did, occasionally sitting or squatting down to talk to students on their work. Perhaps it is the lack of movement that is the problem?
- davidkuridza 13y ago
  My thought exactly. I've been using a standing desk for over a year now, yet I'm hardly standing still for more than an hour at a time. If nothing else, I go and grab a cup of water or simply just walk around the office for a minute or two.
- TillE 13y ago
  Walking for an hour straight is so much more comfortable than standing still for even 10 minutes. Presumably because you're constantly engaging different muscles, giving the others a chance to briefly rest. Now I just have to figure out how to build some kind of treadmill desk.
- chaostheory 13y ago
  A standing desk is great paired with a treadmill designed for walking.
- mason240 13y ago
  I've been using standing desk for over a year at work, and the first month went similar to the way the OP described. Unlike the OP though, it was never my intention to stand all day. I stand when I feel like, and sit (on a tall chair) when feel like it (right now it is probably 70/30). I have a bar running across the bottom of the desk 1 foot off the ground. I can put my foot on it, so I can bend my legs and move around quite a bit. Trying to just stand stationary all day, which appears to be what the OP was trying to, sounds very uncomfortable and counter productive. The whole point (at least for me) isn't to not-sit-all-day, but to able to move legs through the day.
ekianjo 13y ago
> One community in Okinawa, Japan has one fifth the risk of colon and breast cancer and lives seven years longer than the average American. I like it when sources are not cited, and when you compare a community to a country (sample size significance problem??) and when you forget completely about the recent scandal in Japan of having people dead for long (like people at 130-140 years old...) still registered as living (these points in the data make the average move very sensitively). Japan's data for life expectancy is a joke, seriously.
reedlaw 13y ago
Substitute "walking" for "standing" and all these troubles go away. I have walked many 8 hour shifts with only a lunch break in between. A walking desk is not much more difficult to make. Get a treadmill from Craigslist and then find a bookshelf to put the monitor on. Or stack some boxes on a desk and put the monitor on top at eye level. Or you could even attach the monitor to the wall with an inexpensive wall mount.
upofadown 13y ago
I thought the hotness was the treadmill desk. Why would someone want to stand around all day? The fix for this (and most things that office people think they have discovered) is well known in the working world. You just need a tall stool to slouch on from time to time. There is a place between sitting and standing.
- moron4hire 13y ago
  Came here to make the stool comment. I had a standing desk for a while, and I also had to have a stool. Actually, I built the stool, because I didn't have any money at the time, but I did have plenty of scrap wood. I then had to move to a new city, so I no longer have access to the shop where I used to keep my desk. I sort of miss that stool. It was terrifying to sit on, which I think of as a feature. Nobody else in the shop ever wanted to sit on it, so they could never steal it from me.
  - subpixel 13y ago
    I use this at an adjustable desk: http://store.focaluprightfurniture.com/mogo.html http://store.focaluprightfurniture.com/mogo.html It rules. It encourages a lot of lateral movement, and I find myself using it about 50% of the time my desk is high. I generally stand in the am, and then lower my desk to sit in the afternoon (I use a second-hand Aeron).
kjjw 13y ago
Step 1: Move to a house or flat about 1.5 miles from the office you work in. Step 2: Walk to work. What's that? The accommodation near your workplace is much more expensive and so you wouldn't be able to afford your massive suburban American home? Then sell all your cheap crap and then move, you fat American.
- kjjw 13y ago
  My apologies if this seems like a troll, it is not. It is blazingly obvious to everyone outside of North American that their health woes are down to a reliance on cars, cities built to accommodate cars and an overconsumption of sugar. It is incredible that they haven't managed to figure this out yet.
  - adestefan 13y ago
    Since you're so all knowing maybe you can also chastise Europeans for their dramatic increase in obesity rates, too.
    - smacktoward 13y ago
      And Chinese, and Mexicans, and South Africans, and... http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/jan/03/obesity-soars-alarming-levels-developing-countries http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/jan/03/ob...
    - kjjw 13y ago
      They are copying Americans.
  - rwallace 13y ago
    There is truth in what you say, but you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. If the wording of your comments makes it seem like you're trolling, maybe it's time to adjust your wording? As adestefan observes, the problem is not confined to America nowadays either.
    - 13y ago
kevingadd 13y ago
I used to be able to stand for 6-8 hours a day back when I worked at a coffee shop, but I can't do it anymore. Maybe it's just because I got out of the habit, or because I got older, but standing in place in the same position for more than a couple hours is exhausting. On the other hand, walking around for hours isn't bad at all, so maybe there's something specific about standing still that creates more exertion?
- moron4hire 13y ago
  In college, when I worked as a cook at Waffle House, I'd frequently do double-shifts, 16-hour days standing. But it's a lot of movement, you're constantly moving from the food stock to the griddle. My father is on his feet all day. He delivers bread to grocery stores. He is constantly speed-walking. He usually has about a 10 minute drive between stores, where he of course sits in his truck, and spends about 45 minutes in each store. Now that I work from home, sometimes I take a shower to think. That's only tangentially related.
etfb 13y ago
I built myself a standing desk and used it for a couple of months. It was my feet, not my back, that convinced me to go back to sitting down. I suppose if I'd invested in some kind of special flooring or even more comfortable shoes, I might still be using the standing desk, but I don't know. What I'd really like is some way to sit on an exercise bike (I believe they're called "stationary bikes" in some places) and still be able to use a keyboard and mouse. Not sure how that would work, but if I could figure it out I'd be rich and skinny before you know it!
- goofygrin 13y ago
  They make small pedallers that sit on an a frame and you sit in a chair to pedal. If you ever have to do leg rehab you'll get to use one.
- subpixel 13y ago
  I think this would be entirely ineffective, but it exists: http://www.kickstandfurniture.com/ http://www.kickstandfurniture.com/
rodh257 13y ago
2 weeks doesn't seem like that long to persist with a major change like swapping from sitting all day to standing. Would be interesting to hear from someone who persisted with it for longer to see if they were able to adjust fully. I have a desk that is adjustable from sitting to standing and enjoy it as it lets me work longer without my back annoying me. In regards to the 135 degree suggestion, I've found this doesn't work well for me, my lower back hurts, and also it encourages me to stick my chin forward which puts pressure on your neck. Could be a result of body shape or specifics of my setup though.
- moron4hire 13y ago
  It took me two months to get used to my desk. Still, I was only able to work for 6 hours in a day when I used it. I spent a lot of time in the shop, it was where all my friends were and we would hang out there, so it wasn't uncommon to be there for 12-14 hours. I used a stool, or got away from my desk and did something else. I agree with you about the neck for the 135 degree thing.
- nknighthb 13y ago
  I bought a motorized adjustable standing desk. I don't stand the same amount of time each day, but typically at least two hours, and no more than about 6. I eased into standing gradually. When I first got it, I only had it "up" for maybe half an hour at a time. I also don't strictly stand still. I'm always moving around a bit, even if it's just from one side of the desk to the other (it's a Geekdesk Max with a large (78.75" wide) desktop).
- j-g-faustus 13y ago
  I haven't tried a standing desk for programming yet (it's on my todo-list). But I did have a summer job as a student where I was standing in front of a computer all day, registering incoming packages in a warehouse. My feet hurt for the first few days, but after some experimentation with different footwear (I ended up with a pair of orthopedic sandals as the most comfortable), a soft mat to stand on, and a 5-10 minute break each hour, I had no issues after the first couple of weeks. I'm pretty sure that moving is better than either standing or sitting. Since walking around isn't very compatible with working on a PC, I expect that an adjustable desk is pretty much the best we can do. Along with switching between standing and sitting, frequent breaks, and suitable footwear.
jrockway 13y ago
One problem that a lot of people have is starting some new athletic-type-thing too quickly. Standing is similar. Do an hour a day for a month. Then do two hours a day. Your body adjusts very slowly, but does adjust. (I have this problem whenever I start running after a long break. My cardio system is in relatively good shape from cycling. But the muscles used by running aren't. So I end up with shin splits after the first run. You have to start at an insanely low intensity: walk 20 minutes, run 30 seconds. For a month. Add 10% a week after that.) For standing, HN recommended an anti-fatigue mat. I got one yesterday, and so far, I am noticing less fatigue while standing. Who would have guessed.
- masnick 13y ago
  Jumping rope regularly has helped me avoid shin splints. 10 minutes once a week seems to do the trick for me (now that I can jump for 10 minutes straight -- took a bit to get there).
- crb002 13y ago
  The guys at Bunchball have comfy stools. Stand then sit for a while if you get tired. I imagine the sit/stand cadence is something like pomodoro with 20 minutes up five minutes siting.
- swah 13y ago
  I like them when I'm typing, but when I have to stop and think, it doesn't work that well. Do you do the less non-typing part of coding while standing too? (Drawing stuff on paper, imagining scenarios where that solution won't work, etc...)
  - jrockway 13y ago
    My desk doesn't go high enough for me to draw comfortably, so I sit down for that. I got lazy about standing all day, and am in the building-back-up stage again. My goal is for a couple of hours everyday, eventually increasing that to 8. Currently I stand up when I feel like I'm tired of sitting down, and sit down when I'm tired of standing up.
- 13y ago
raldi 13y ago
I'd like to preempt the inevitable posting of the link to the Cornell article about standing desks. It's a complete, 180-degree misrepresentation of the study it claims to be based on. Details here: http://redd.it/kfjet http://redd.it/kfjet
- tzs 13y ago
  There are problems with the page you cite. 1. It seems to be referring to a very old version of the Cornell page. For instance, it says the Cornell page only cites one source. The current page cites seven sources in the references section, and one in the body of the article. 2. The one source cited in the old version of the page was concentrating on musculoskeletal disorders. It found benefits to using an electric height-adjustable work surface. The EHAW resulted in a minor increase in musculoskeletal discomfort, and a substantial decrease in the severity of upper body musculoskeletal symptoms. The Cornell article does not contradict this. It says that they have found that standing desks increase the risk of some musculoskeletal problems such as carpal tunnel syndrome. Together, these are just saying that standing can help with some kinds of musculoskeletal problems, and harm with others. The Cornell article is also considering a wider range of potential problems than the EHAW study considered, and has the benefit of being written 8 years after the EHAW study and so can take into account subsequent research. The bottom line is that sitting too much is bad for you, and standing too much is bad for you. That's the conclusion of the Cornell article, and nothing in the EHAW study (which was done by the same people that did the Cornell article) contradicts that.
ronyeh 13y ago
For an alternative to standing, check out the FitDesk: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00CM9CBZY http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00CM9CBZY I use it every day.
- Kiro 13y ago
  I would love that but with support for dual screens and not just a laptop.
jedanbik 13y ago
Are those Markus chairs from IKEA really comparable to the ilk of Herman Miller et al.? I'm wondering if the road trip to try one out is worthwhile. Please share your experiences if you own one.
- Expez 13y ago
  The herman miller chairs offer far better adjustability than the IKEA Markus chair. The Markus is a good chair for its price, but they're not comparable.
  - marknutter 13y ago
    Although Herman miller chairs are more adjustable I find that the lack of a head rest causes people to fall into really bad habits. At work we have very nice Herman Miller chairs without headrests and you see most people slumped back in their chairs with their necks craned forward. I have the Markus at home and because it had a head rest it allows me to stay comfortably in a position where my head is properly balanced over my spine.
Derbasti 13y ago
People have different bodies. For this guy, a standing desk did not work out. For others, it does. Personally, I am more focused when standing. I feel more active and less likely to get bored. Also, I frequently walk a few steps when I need to think about something. I used to have my brightest ideas when I stood up from my chair to go to the toilet, or while showering in the morning. Now I just walk a few steps from my desk and look out the window, or get a glass of water. This keeps my body busy while my mind is churning on something. It works for me.
- tallTrees 13y ago
  I used a standing desk for about ten years, starting because of back problems where I couldn't sit down for more than 15 minutes. I also had a drafting stool (with a back) so that I could sit or stand. Some days I mostly stood, some days mostly sat, some very mixed. Now I have a different job and sit at a desk all day. I can't say I miss my standing desk except for its size (4' X 8') -- it was unmatched for working with two or three people.
X4 13y ago
The OMNI solves the issue with monotonic muscle use, that arises with classical Treadmills: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1944625487/omni-move-naturally-in-your-favorite-game https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1944625487/omni-move-na...
Void_ 13y ago
It worked for me very well until spring came, and I started doing sports. It's really hard to stand if you've just spent two hours working out.
conradfr 13y ago
135 degrees would never work with me, I battle all day to not stay in that position because it makes me sleepy. When I see his photo I think I can watch a movie in that position but working I doubt it, I need to feel more "engaged" with the keyboard, the mouse, the screen, if that makes sense.
DontBeADick 13y ago
The author never thought to get a drafting chair so he could continue working while sitting? Mind boggling...
fallinghawks 13y ago
This is what happens when people follow recipes blindly for something that isn't cooking: doomed to fail. First, I'm guessing the author's standing desk was simply not the right height for him. The "$22 Ikea" is a fixed height and I suspect he never adjusted it to something comfortable, customized for his height. Second, as someone said earlier, he approached it like it was some kind of marathon - he planned to stand at the thing all day, right away. You actually have to work up to using a standing desk -- alternate sitting and standing and slowly increase the amount of standing time.
nmkn 13y ago
I haven't experimented with a standing desk, but it seems like you can develop a tolerance overtime, so that eventually, you'll stop thinking about the discomfort when you're trying to concentrate. I can see where the author is coming from though. I tried to read a book when I was cycling in the gym, but it didn't go so well because I ended up spliting my concentration with the book and exercise. No gains in either activity unless I sacrificed the other. However, standing is a low-intensity physical activity, more similar to walking, so I think that overtime you'd just get used to it. It becomes a healthy active habit like taking the stairs everyday.
vittore 13y ago
I had similar experience but with much easier solution to my troubles. I've bought bar-stool, in fact i have 2 of them - one actual bar stool and another one more like adjustable bar chair with nice leather finish. So I have 3 options to switch between - staying in front of my standing table, sit on hard stool or better to say lean on it a little bit, sitting on the edge, or sitting on comfy leather chair. This way if I am in a flow I can work however long I need, switchig chairs.
fexl 13y ago
I've been doing the 135-degree thing for many years, much like the picture there, but without the foot rest. I make sure to squirm around on occasion, and I get up and stretch and walk with the dog regularly. So far so good.
gojomo 13y ago
The "$22 of ikea parts" approach looks like a torture device to me. The tiniest tweak to standing desk height can make a big difference in resulting posture and comfort. (My exact height preference even changes from day to day, perhaps due to varying shoes or recent levels of other activity.)
- peterhajas 13y ago
  What sort of activities do you change desk height for?
  - gojomo 13y ago
    It's not strictly modal, "when doing X use height Y" – I just find my posture preference changing slightly over time. I suppose long writing/coding is a bit more active/upright (higher), while long reading/browsing tends to involve a forward or alternating side-lean (lower). Shoes, time of day, and other recent exertion seem to be factors as well. And I alternate to seated, for hours or sometimes days at a time, for variety. I suspect I'm more likely to start a new project or do many small independent tasks while standing, and more likely to work-through a lengthier, involved task while seated... but I haven't kept careful notes.
mark_l_watson 13y ago
There was a walking desk near my desk at Google. I found the walking desk, with a large monitor for my laptop to be ideal when I had to catch up on email and reading. Typing while walking was not as good. Since I normally work from a home office my wife has been trying to talk me into buying one. I probably would not use it enough because I have four different working locations at home. One more thing: a "get up and walk timer" is a good idea. On days when I don't use a timer, I don't feel as physically comfortable at the end of a long work day.
stevenwei 13y ago
I switched to a treadmill desk setup in my home office about a year ago and have been pretty happy with it. http://imgur.com/a/zbm35 http://imgur.com/a/zbm35 The desk itself is electric height-adjustable which makes it easy to switch between walking/standing and sitting with the push of a button, and the monitors are mounted on arms so I can move them to the correct height when I switch positions. It took some getting used to before I could walk for extended periods of time, but now I don't really think about it anymore, I just start walking and before I know it, an hour has gone by. That said, I have found that it's hard to really concentrate while walking. If I find myself in the middle of a particularly difficult programming problem, I'll often need to sit down before I can really think about it. But there's a lot of time throughout the day where I'm not doing anything that's super mentally challenging, like reading HN :) or catching up on email or finishing light programming tasks, and I try to walk as much as possible during those times. At this point I typically walk between 1-3 hours total per day, and end up alternating between walking/standing/sitting every hour or so. Sometimes after sitting for a while I find myself starting to feel sleepy, switching to walking at this point usually wakes me right back up and keeps me going. Not sure, why, probably a circulation thing. The setup wasn't particularly cheap to put together (though you could certainly do it for a lot cheaper than I did), but after a year I've concluded the cost was totally worth it considering how many hours of my life I spend (and will continue to spend) in front of a computer.

56 points by cormullion 13y ago

What you need is a standing desk that adopts to YOU, not the other way round. Here's the one I have been using for approx. 2 years now and I can tell you I will NEVER go back to a sitting-only desk: http://www.ergotron.com/ProductsDetails/tabid/65/PRDID/320/language/en-US/Default.aspx http://www.ergotron.com/ProductsDetails/tabid/65/PRDID/320/l... There are variations of this model available, but the main points are: 1. Screen (even if laptop) and keyboard/mouse are separated so everything is exactly at the correct height (= ergonomic, won't become a pain!) 2. You can pull up (and push down) the whole thing very easily, with just 1 hand/no force: This means you can change whenever you feel the slightest issue. Changing every 10 minutes easily becomes a healthy no-brainer routine.

keithpeter 13y ago

"After two weeks, I was able to stand for about four hours a day, but I still needed to take multiple breaks." I work as a teacher. I don't sit down much in a typical working day, so I found that sentence strange to say the least. Then I realised that I don't stand still ever in the classroom. I'm effectively walking around my patch of savannah all day like our ancestors did, occasionally sitting or squatting down to talk to students on their work. Perhaps it is the lack of movement that is the problem?

davidkuridza 13y ago
My thought exactly. I've been using a standing desk for over a year now, yet I'm hardly standing still for more than an hour at a time. If nothing else, I go and grab a cup of water or simply just walk around the office for a minute or two.
TillE 13y ago
Walking for an hour straight is so much more comfortable than standing still for even 10 minutes. Presumably because you're constantly engaging different muscles, giving the others a chance to briefly rest. Now I just have to figure out how to build some kind of treadmill desk.
chaostheory 13y ago
A standing desk is great paired with a treadmill designed for walking.
mason240 13y ago
I've been using standing desk for over a year at work, and the first month went similar to the way the OP described. Unlike the OP though, it was never my intention to stand all day. I stand when I feel like, and sit (on a tall chair) when feel like it (right now it is probably 70/30). I have a bar running across the bottom of the desk 1 foot off the ground. I can put my foot on it, so I can bend my legs and move around quite a bit. Trying to just stand stationary all day, which appears to be what the OP was trying to, sounds very uncomfortable and counter productive. The whole point (at least for me) isn't to not-sit-all-day, but to able to move legs through the day.

ekianjo 13y ago

> One community in Okinawa, Japan has one fifth the risk of colon and breast cancer and lives seven years longer than the average American. I like it when sources are not cited, and when you compare a community to a country (sample size significance problem??) and when you forget completely about the recent scandal in Japan of having people dead for long (like people at 130-140 years old...) still registered as living (these points in the data make the average move very sensitively). Japan's data for life expectancy is a joke, seriously.

reedlaw 13y ago

Substitute "walking" for "standing" and all these troubles go away. I have walked many 8 hour shifts with only a lunch break in between. A walking desk is not much more difficult to make. Get a treadmill from Craigslist and then find a bookshelf to put the monitor on. Or stack some boxes on a desk and put the monitor on top at eye level. Or you could even attach the monitor to the wall with an inexpensive wall mount.

upofadown 13y ago

I thought the hotness was the treadmill desk. Why would someone want to stand around all day? The fix for this (and most things that office people think they have discovered) is well known in the working world. You just need a tall stool to slouch on from time to time. There is a place between sitting and standing.

moron4hire 13y ago
Came here to make the stool comment. I had a standing desk for a while, and I also had to have a stool. Actually, I built the stool, because I didn't have any money at the time, but I did have plenty of scrap wood. I then had to move to a new city, so I no longer have access to the shop where I used to keep my desk. I sort of miss that stool. It was terrifying to sit on, which I think of as a feature. Nobody else in the shop ever wanted to sit on it, so they could never steal it from me.
- subpixel 13y ago
  I use this at an adjustable desk: http://store.focaluprightfurniture.com/mogo.html http://store.focaluprightfurniture.com/mogo.html It rules. It encourages a lot of lateral movement, and I find myself using it about 50% of the time my desk is high. I generally stand in the am, and then lower my desk to sit in the afternoon (I use a second-hand Aeron).

kjjw 13y ago

Step 1: Move to a house or flat about 1.5 miles from the office you work in. Step 2: Walk to work. What's that? The accommodation near your workplace is much more expensive and so you wouldn't be able to afford your massive suburban American home? Then sell all your cheap crap and then move, you fat American.

kjjw 13y ago
My apologies if this seems like a troll, it is not. It is blazingly obvious to everyone outside of North American that their health woes are down to a reliance on cars, cities built to accommodate cars and an overconsumption of sugar. It is incredible that they haven't managed to figure this out yet.
- adestefan 13y ago
  Since you're so all knowing maybe you can also chastise Europeans for their dramatic increase in obesity rates, too.
  - smacktoward 13y ago
    And Chinese, and Mexicans, and South Africans, and... http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/jan/03/obesity-soars-alarming-levels-developing-countries http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/jan/03/ob...
  - kjjw 13y ago
    They are copying Americans.
- rwallace 13y ago
  There is truth in what you say, but you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. If the wording of your comments makes it seem like you're trolling, maybe it's time to adjust your wording? As adestefan observes, the problem is not confined to America nowadays either.
  - 13y ago

kevingadd 13y ago

I used to be able to stand for 6-8 hours a day back when I worked at a coffee shop, but I can't do it anymore. Maybe it's just because I got out of the habit, or because I got older, but standing in place in the same position for more than a couple hours is exhausting. On the other hand, walking around for hours isn't bad at all, so maybe there's something specific about standing still that creates more exertion?

moron4hire 13y ago
In college, when I worked as a cook at Waffle House, I'd frequently do double-shifts, 16-hour days standing. But it's a lot of movement, you're constantly moving from the food stock to the griddle. My father is on his feet all day. He delivers bread to grocery stores. He is constantly speed-walking. He usually has about a 10 minute drive between stores, where he of course sits in his truck, and spends about 45 minutes in each store. Now that I work from home, sometimes I take a shower to think. That's only tangentially related.

etfb 13y ago

I built myself a standing desk and used it for a couple of months. It was my feet, not my back, that convinced me to go back to sitting down. I suppose if I'd invested in some kind of special flooring or even more comfortable shoes, I might still be using the standing desk, but I don't know. What I'd really like is some way to sit on an exercise bike (I believe they're called "stationary bikes" in some places) and still be able to use a keyboard and mouse. Not sure how that would work, but if I could figure it out I'd be rich and skinny before you know it!

goofygrin 13y ago
They make small pedallers that sit on an a frame and you sit in a chair to pedal. If you ever have to do leg rehab you'll get to use one.
subpixel 13y ago
I think this would be entirely ineffective, but it exists: http://www.kickstandfurniture.com/ http://www.kickstandfurniture.com/

rodh257 13y ago

2 weeks doesn't seem like that long to persist with a major change like swapping from sitting all day to standing. Would be interesting to hear from someone who persisted with it for longer to see if they were able to adjust fully. I have a desk that is adjustable from sitting to standing and enjoy it as it lets me work longer without my back annoying me. In regards to the 135 degree suggestion, I've found this doesn't work well for me, my lower back hurts, and also it encourages me to stick my chin forward which puts pressure on your neck. Could be a result of body shape or specifics of my setup though.

moron4hire 13y ago
It took me two months to get used to my desk. Still, I was only able to work for 6 hours in a day when I used it. I spent a lot of time in the shop, it was where all my friends were and we would hang out there, so it wasn't uncommon to be there for 12-14 hours. I used a stool, or got away from my desk and did something else. I agree with you about the neck for the 135 degree thing.
nknighthb 13y ago
I bought a motorized adjustable standing desk. I don't stand the same amount of time each day, but typically at least two hours, and no more than about 6. I eased into standing gradually. When I first got it, I only had it "up" for maybe half an hour at a time. I also don't strictly stand still. I'm always moving around a bit, even if it's just from one side of the desk to the other (it's a Geekdesk Max with a large (78.75" wide) desktop).
j-g-faustus 13y ago
I haven't tried a standing desk for programming yet (it's on my todo-list). But I did have a summer job as a student where I was standing in front of a computer all day, registering incoming packages in a warehouse. My feet hurt for the first few days, but after some experimentation with different footwear (I ended up with a pair of orthopedic sandals as the most comfortable), a soft mat to stand on, and a 5-10 minute break each hour, I had no issues after the first couple of weeks. I'm pretty sure that moving is better than either standing or sitting. Since walking around isn't very compatible with working on a PC, I expect that an adjustable desk is pretty much the best we can do. Along with switching between standing and sitting, frequent breaks, and suitable footwear.

jrockway 13y ago

One problem that a lot of people have is starting some new athletic-type-thing too quickly. Standing is similar. Do an hour a day for a month. Then do two hours a day. Your body adjusts very slowly, but does adjust. (I have this problem whenever I start running after a long break. My cardio system is in relatively good shape from cycling. But the muscles used by running aren't. So I end up with shin splits after the first run. You have to start at an insanely low intensity: walk 20 minutes, run 30 seconds. For a month. Add 10% a week after that.) For standing, HN recommended an anti-fatigue mat. I got one yesterday, and so far, I am noticing less fatigue while standing. Who would have guessed.

masnick 13y ago
Jumping rope regularly has helped me avoid shin splints. 10 minutes once a week seems to do the trick for me (now that I can jump for 10 minutes straight -- took a bit to get there).
crb002 13y ago
The guys at Bunchball have comfy stools. Stand then sit for a while if you get tired. I imagine the sit/stand cadence is something like pomodoro with 20 minutes up five minutes siting.
swah 13y ago
I like them when I'm typing, but when I have to stop and think, it doesn't work that well. Do you do the less non-typing part of coding while standing too? (Drawing stuff on paper, imagining scenarios where that solution won't work, etc...)
- jrockway 13y ago
  My desk doesn't go high enough for me to draw comfortably, so I sit down for that. I got lazy about standing all day, and am in the building-back-up stage again. My goal is for a couple of hours everyday, eventually increasing that to 8. Currently I stand up when I feel like I'm tired of sitting down, and sit down when I'm tired of standing up.
13y ago

raldi 13y ago

I'd like to preempt the inevitable posting of the link to the Cornell article about standing desks. It's a complete, 180-degree misrepresentation of the study it claims to be based on. Details here: http://redd.it/kfjet http://redd.it/kfjet

tzs 13y ago
There are problems with the page you cite. 1. It seems to be referring to a very old version of the Cornell page. For instance, it says the Cornell page only cites one source. The current page cites seven sources in the references section, and one in the body of the article. 2. The one source cited in the old version of the page was concentrating on musculoskeletal disorders. It found benefits to using an electric height-adjustable work surface. The EHAW resulted in a minor increase in musculoskeletal discomfort, and a substantial decrease in the severity of upper body musculoskeletal symptoms. The Cornell article does not contradict this. It says that they have found that standing desks increase the risk of some musculoskeletal problems such as carpal tunnel syndrome. Together, these are just saying that standing can help with some kinds of musculoskeletal problems, and harm with others. The Cornell article is also considering a wider range of potential problems than the EHAW study considered, and has the benefit of being written 8 years after the EHAW study and so can take into account subsequent research. The bottom line is that sitting too much is bad for you, and standing too much is bad for you. That's the conclusion of the Cornell article, and nothing in the EHAW study (which was done by the same people that did the Cornell article) contradicts that.

ronyeh 13y ago

For an alternative to standing, check out the FitDesk: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00CM9CBZY http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00CM9CBZY I use it every day.

Kiro 13y ago
I would love that but with support for dual screens and not just a laptop.

jedanbik 13y ago

Are those Markus chairs from IKEA really comparable to the ilk of Herman Miller et al.? I'm wondering if the road trip to try one out is worthwhile. Please share your experiences if you own one.

Expez 13y ago
The herman miller chairs offer far better adjustability than the IKEA Markus chair. The Markus is a good chair for its price, but they're not comparable.
- marknutter 13y ago
  Although Herman miller chairs are more adjustable I find that the lack of a head rest causes people to fall into really bad habits. At work we have very nice Herman Miller chairs without headrests and you see most people slumped back in their chairs with their necks craned forward. I have the Markus at home and because it had a head rest it allows me to stay comfortably in a position where my head is properly balanced over my spine.

Derbasti 13y ago

People have different bodies. For this guy, a standing desk did not work out. For others, it does. Personally, I am more focused when standing. I feel more active and less likely to get bored. Also, I frequently walk a few steps when I need to think about something. I used to have my brightest ideas when I stood up from my chair to go to the toilet, or while showering in the morning. Now I just walk a few steps from my desk and look out the window, or get a glass of water. This keeps my body busy while my mind is churning on something. It works for me.

tallTrees 13y ago
I used a standing desk for about ten years, starting because of back problems where I couldn't sit down for more than 15 minutes. I also had a drafting stool (with a back) so that I could sit or stand. Some days I mostly stood, some days mostly sat, some very mixed. Now I have a different job and sit at a desk all day. I can't say I miss my standing desk except for its size (4' X 8') -- it was unmatched for working with two or three people.

X4 13y ago

The OMNI solves the issue with monotonic muscle use, that arises with classical Treadmills: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1944625487/omni-move-naturally-in-your-favorite-game https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1944625487/omni-move-na...

Void_ 13y ago

It worked for me very well until spring came, and I started doing sports. It's really hard to stand if you've just spent two hours working out.

conradfr 13y ago

135 degrees would never work with me, I battle all day to not stay in that position because it makes me sleepy. When I see his photo I think I can watch a movie in that position but working I doubt it, I need to feel more "engaged" with the keyboard, the mouse, the screen, if that makes sense.

DontBeADick 13y ago

The author never thought to get a drafting chair so he could continue working while sitting? Mind boggling...

fallinghawks 13y ago

This is what happens when people follow recipes blindly for something that isn't cooking: doomed to fail. First, I'm guessing the author's standing desk was simply not the right height for him. The "$22 Ikea" is a fixed height and I suspect he never adjusted it to something comfortable, customized for his height. Second, as someone said earlier, he approached it like it was some kind of marathon - he planned to stand at the thing all day, right away. You actually have to work up to using a standing desk -- alternate sitting and standing and slowly increase the amount of standing time.

nmkn 13y ago

I haven't experimented with a standing desk, but it seems like you can develop a tolerance overtime, so that eventually, you'll stop thinking about the discomfort when you're trying to concentrate. I can see where the author is coming from though. I tried to read a book when I was cycling in the gym, but it didn't go so well because I ended up spliting my concentration with the book and exercise. No gains in either activity unless I sacrificed the other. However, standing is a low-intensity physical activity, more similar to walking, so I think that overtime you'd just get used to it. It becomes a healthy active habit like taking the stairs everyday.

vittore 13y ago

I had similar experience but with much easier solution to my troubles. I've bought bar-stool, in fact i have 2 of them - one actual bar stool and another one more like adjustable bar chair with nice leather finish. So I have 3 options to switch between - staying in front of my standing table, sit on hard stool or better to say lean on it a little bit, sitting on the edge, or sitting on comfy leather chair. This way if I am in a flow I can work however long I need, switchig chairs.

fexl 13y ago

I've been doing the 135-degree thing for many years, much like the picture there, but without the foot rest. I make sure to squirm around on occasion, and I get up and stretch and walk with the dog regularly. So far so good.

gojomo 13y ago

The "$22 of ikea parts" approach looks like a torture device to me. The tiniest tweak to standing desk height can make a big difference in resulting posture and comfort. (My exact height preference even changes from day to day, perhaps due to varying shoes or recent levels of other activity.)

peterhajas 13y ago
What sort of activities do you change desk height for?
- gojomo 13y ago
  It's not strictly modal, "when doing X use height Y" – I just find my posture preference changing slightly over time. I suppose long writing/coding is a bit more active/upright (higher), while long reading/browsing tends to involve a forward or alternating side-lean (lower). Shoes, time of day, and other recent exertion seem to be factors as well. And I alternate to seated, for hours or sometimes days at a time, for variety. I suspect I'm more likely to start a new project or do many small independent tasks while standing, and more likely to work-through a lengthier, involved task while seated... but I haven't kept careful notes.

mark_l_watson 13y ago

There was a walking desk near my desk at Google. I found the walking desk, with a large monitor for my laptop to be ideal when I had to catch up on email and reading. Typing while walking was not as good. Since I normally work from a home office my wife has been trying to talk me into buying one. I probably would not use it enough because I have four different working locations at home. One more thing: a "get up and walk timer" is a good idea. On days when I don't use a timer, I don't feel as physically comfortable at the end of a long work day.

stevenwei 13y ago

I switched to a treadmill desk setup in my home office about a year ago and have been pretty happy with it. http://imgur.com/a/zbm35 http://imgur.com/a/zbm35 The desk itself is electric height-adjustable which makes it easy to switch between walking/standing and sitting with the push of a button, and the monitors are mounted on arms so I can move them to the correct height when I switch positions. It took some getting used to before I could walk for extended periods of time, but now I don't really think about it anymore, I just start walking and before I know it, an hour has gone by. That said, I have found that it's hard to really concentrate while walking. If I find myself in the middle of a particularly difficult programming problem, I'll often need to sit down before I can really think about it. But there's a lot of time throughout the day where I'm not doing anything that's super mentally challenging, like reading HN :) or catching up on email or finishing light programming tasks, and I try to walk as much as possible during those times. At this point I typically walk between 1-3 hours total per day, and end up alternating between walking/standing/sitting every hour or so. Sometimes after sitting for a while I find myself starting to feel sleepy, switching to walking at this point usually wakes me right back up and keeps me going. Not sure, why, probably a circulation thing. The setup wasn't particularly cheap to put together (though you could certainly do it for a lot cheaper than I did), but after a year I've concluded the cost was totally worth it considering how many hours of my life I spend (and will continue to spend) in front of a computer.