5 ms·

I can attest to that. I met Steve in the summer of 1976 when he was a barefoot hippie who'd just started a computer company with his buddy, and we got to talkin

I can attest to that. I met Steve in the summer of 1976 when he was a barefoot hippie who'd just started a computer company with his buddy, and we got to talking about some software they needed, a 6502 disassembler. I told him I could do that and it was right up my alley. We exchanged phone numbers and shook hands on a "deal" - no money involved yet but it just seemed like an interesting side project to do for the fun of it. Steve called me back a couple of days later and chewed me out: "Mike, I've thought about this, and I've decided you couldn't possibly do this project. This is a microcomputer. It's nothing at all like the mainframes you've worked with. It's completely different, and you couldn't possibly do this project. So forget it." I tried to persuade him that my eight years of experience in machine language programming in a variety of architectures just might mean that I could tackle a simple instruction set like the 6502. But no, he knew I simply couldn't do it. Of course he wasn't a programmer and had no idea. But he did know for certain that a mainframe programmer like me couldn't possibly understand microcomputers. The sad part for me (besides the possible billions of dollars I might have made!) is that I didn't get a chance to meet Woz before Steve dissed me. A few friends have told me that we probably would have gotten along famously - if I could have somehow gotten past the doorkeeper. But so it goes; you can't second-guess history. I told a longer version of this story, with a few links to interesting stuff from the old days, here: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/h4n5w/i_was_one_of_the_first_people_steve_jobs_ever/ http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/h4n5w/i_was_one_of_the...

sitkack 13y ago
You should still meet Woz. From the likes of it, you probably would get along swimmingly.
- Stratoscope 13y ago
  Thank you for saying that, and I think you're right, we probably would. Woz just seems like a really nice guy, personable and interesting and fun to be around. I've bumped into him once or twice over the years, most recently at the Homebrew Computer Club reunion, where he gave a great talk full of enthusiasm. Woz was a breath of fresh air after Ted Nelson's keynote-of-sorts, which was interesting enough but so sad and bitter! (Anyone who was there will know what I'm talking about.) I suppose I can relate to that, as someone who's never had the kind of success I could have imagined for myself. But Woz reminded me that no matter what happens in your life, stay cheerful and enthusiastic and never let yourself become a bitter old person.
  - pirateking 13y ago
    I was a huge Ted Nelson fan before that reunion, and his keynote was the main reason I attended (wasn't expecting Woz to make it). Still am a huge fan but his talk was not what I expected at all, and was a bit hard to listen to. Fortunately, Woz had me walking out in high spirits. Woz is an awesome, awesome engineer and creator for all engineers and creators everywhere. I am trying to find a way to go meet up with that Wizard Woz myself right now, since I didn't get a chance to talk to him at the reunion.
    - sitkack 13y ago
      I wish more engineers were like Woz, in that he builds technology but isn't blind sided by its effects. He stops when he doesn't think it is right. It does have consequences in how it is used and we are part of that. I had a huge falling out with a friend of mine, he has a completely amoral philosophy when it comes to technology creation, that it is the users responsibility, the engineers just make tools and don't need to think about the application.
      - pirateking 13y ago
        I myself, agree with you on the principle of being principled. At the same time, I can see how your friend's side (but perhaps not his reasoning), could be argued in some cases. If you are working at a very high level of abstraction (compilers, programming languages, protocols), there is infinite potential for your work, and its purpose is going to be determined by the principles of its users. Their principles may be different from your own, possibly even evil. I do think standing for principles that are for the good of humanity is something worth doing as an individual, regardless of the technological abstraction you work on. And if you can build or promote your technology using those principles, then the both will be stronger for it.
      - collyw 13y ago
        Yes, I see this two from end users in my company. They us as just a code monkey. They think they know the best way to do something, not realizing the fact that as someone creating the code, you have probably seen similar problems numerous times, and have a far better way of solving the problem. I am constantly asked for a new excel to upload data. I refuse these days, (they are far too error prone). Instead I build a web form instead, with JavaScript emulating whatever usability features they required Excel for (usually just a bit of copy pasting). Last time I did showed the user what I had come up with the response was "this is shit". I asked her what it was missing, sorted the JavaScript, and two days later she asked if I could replace another of her Excels with a similar form.
vinceguidry 13y ago
Had I gotten that call from Steve, I probably would've laughed in his face. Hard. For close to a minute. When I was calmed down enough, I'd have been like, "Well, Steve, I was just reading through the instruction set, interesting how it does X, Y, Z, seems like that would make it easy for it to do that thing you said wanted in a disassembler, I was just about to borrow a little simulator time to test out my theories, knock up a quick and dirty proof of concept, but since it looks like you think I can't do it, I'll just go ahead and toss these pages of notes I wrote up away because they're obviously useless." Then shut up and wait for him to crack. You have to talk to people in a language they understand.
- ghshephard 13y ago
  Indeed - Paul Allen, using a PDP-10, actually wrote an entire 8080 emulator that Gates/Allen used to develop the original Altair Basic. Writing a disassembler at that time would have been trivial in comparison.
- nl 13y ago
  I'm surprised that no one seems to have considered that was exactly the outcome Jobs was after. You do the work for free just to prove him wrong, then he says "OK fine.." and offers some minimal amount. You take it, because you've done the work already. Who wins there exactly?
  - vinceguidry 13y ago
    You don't have to take it at all. You can walk away, putting Steve in the position of having an already working solution slip through his fingers and having to find someone else to do it. You considered it a fun side project, maybe you'd have done it even without someone like Jobs asking for it. And you also now have something that somebody wanted, so there's a good bet someone else wanted it too. You don't have to sell to Jobs to get paid. Just sell it to someone else.
  - Perdition 13y ago
    That does sound like Jobs. He might have been an asshole but he knew how to handle engineers.

sitkack 13y ago

You should still meet Woz. From the likes of it, you probably would get along swimmingly.

Stratoscope 13y ago
Thank you for saying that, and I think you're right, we probably would. Woz just seems like a really nice guy, personable and interesting and fun to be around. I've bumped into him once or twice over the years, most recently at the Homebrew Computer Club reunion, where he gave a great talk full of enthusiasm. Woz was a breath of fresh air after Ted Nelson's keynote-of-sorts, which was interesting enough but so sad and bitter! (Anyone who was there will know what I'm talking about.) I suppose I can relate to that, as someone who's never had the kind of success I could have imagined for myself. But Woz reminded me that no matter what happens in your life, stay cheerful and enthusiastic and never let yourself become a bitter old person.
- pirateking 13y ago
  I was a huge Ted Nelson fan before that reunion, and his keynote was the main reason I attended (wasn't expecting Woz to make it). Still am a huge fan but his talk was not what I expected at all, and was a bit hard to listen to. Fortunately, Woz had me walking out in high spirits. Woz is an awesome, awesome engineer and creator for all engineers and creators everywhere. I am trying to find a way to go meet up with that Wizard Woz myself right now, since I didn't get a chance to talk to him at the reunion.
  - sitkack 13y ago
    I wish more engineers were like Woz, in that he builds technology but isn't blind sided by its effects. He stops when he doesn't think it is right. It does have consequences in how it is used and we are part of that. I had a huge falling out with a friend of mine, he has a completely amoral philosophy when it comes to technology creation, that it is the users responsibility, the engineers just make tools and don't need to think about the application.
    - pirateking 13y ago
      I myself, agree with you on the principle of being principled. At the same time, I can see how your friend's side (but perhaps not his reasoning), could be argued in some cases. If you are working at a very high level of abstraction (compilers, programming languages, protocols), there is infinite potential for your work, and its purpose is going to be determined by the principles of its users. Their principles may be different from your own, possibly even evil. I do think standing for principles that are for the good of humanity is something worth doing as an individual, regardless of the technological abstraction you work on. And if you can build or promote your technology using those principles, then the both will be stronger for it.
    - collyw 13y ago
      Yes, I see this two from end users in my company. They us as just a code monkey. They think they know the best way to do something, not realizing the fact that as someone creating the code, you have probably seen similar problems numerous times, and have a far better way of solving the problem. I am constantly asked for a new excel to upload data. I refuse these days, (they are far too error prone). Instead I build a web form instead, with JavaScript emulating whatever usability features they required Excel for (usually just a bit of copy pasting). Last time I did showed the user what I had come up with the response was "this is shit". I asked her what it was missing, sorted the JavaScript, and two days later she asked if I could replace another of her Excels with a similar form.

vinceguidry 13y ago

Had I gotten that call from Steve, I probably would've laughed in his face. Hard. For close to a minute. When I was calmed down enough, I'd have been like, "Well, Steve, I was just reading through the instruction set, interesting how it does X, Y, Z, seems like that would make it easy for it to do that thing you said wanted in a disassembler, I was just about to borrow a little simulator time to test out my theories, knock up a quick and dirty proof of concept, but since it looks like you think I can't do it, I'll just go ahead and toss these pages of notes I wrote up away because they're obviously useless." Then shut up and wait for him to crack. You have to talk to people in a language they understand.

ghshephard 13y ago
Indeed - Paul Allen, using a PDP-10, actually wrote an entire 8080 emulator that Gates/Allen used to develop the original Altair Basic. Writing a disassembler at that time would have been trivial in comparison.
nl 13y ago
I'm surprised that no one seems to have considered that was exactly the outcome Jobs was after. You do the work for free just to prove him wrong, then he says "OK fine.." and offers some minimal amount. You take it, because you've done the work already. Who wins there exactly?
- vinceguidry 13y ago
  You don't have to take it at all. You can walk away, putting Steve in the position of having an already working solution slip through his fingers and having to find someone else to do it. You considered it a fun side project, maybe you'd have done it even without someone like Jobs asking for it. And you also now have something that somebody wanted, so there's a good bet someone else wanted it too. You don't have to sell to Jobs to get paid. Just sell it to someone else.
- Perdition 13y ago
  That does sound like Jobs. He might have been an asshole but he knew how to handle engineers.