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Tamil Nadu state departments asked to switch over to open source software
- zxexz 13y agoHaving spent some time in India dealing with scattered govt. Windows infrastructure, this is amazing news. This may also open up many new opportunities in computer education and literacy which is very deficient in the country. I really hope this switch does happen.
- D9u 13y agoSome of the best hackers I know are in India, and they don't use Microsoft products... I'm talking truly gifted people. I myself am a BSD fanatic, but I recommend Linux based systems to all of my Windows using friends.
- kashif 13y agoThis might be because you are an Indian and the only hackers you know are Indian.
- keithpeter 13y agoWhich I read as the point that the parent post was making: India can 'pull itself up by its bootstraps' by using the pool of Linux/BSD oriented developers to help a large scale migration project thus further developing the skills base.
- gtirloni 13y agoSome of the best hackers I know are in India, and they use Microsoft products... I'm talking truly gifted people.
- aviraldg 13y agoNot many people know this but Linux is already quite popular in the South (esp. in schools and government offices)
- kaushikb9 13y agoCanonical, the company behind Ubuntu is founded by a South African
- aviraldg 13y agoHow is that relevant?
- D9u 13y agoSouth Africa is in the south?
- nodelessness 13y agoHe's talking about South India. Not South the direction of geography.
- gphilip 13y agoIn particular, the Department of General Education of the state of Kerala (more than 12,000 schools, about 6 million students, and about 200,000 teachers [1]) heavily promotes FOSS software both as a medium of teaching (all subjects, not just ICT) and as a tool for administration. This initiative is called the "IT@School Project" [2], and they develop and use their own customized version of Ubuntu (called "IT@School GNU/Linux" [3]) in all their schools. They do quite a bit of customization to adapt available FOSS software to the needs of their audience (which is drawn from all strata of society; this is (almost) free and compulsory education provided by the state). The project uses customized FOSS software, such as Dr. Geo, Rasmol, K-Tech lab, Geogebra, Chemtool, and Kalcium [4], to teach various subjects. They also have ICT as a separate subject starting from Class 4 (9-year olds). As part of this, they start teaching programming (in Python, and using games, graphics, and other age-appropriate methods, and starting very gently) from Class 4. (They also teach a lot of other stuff.) The project implements a lot of e-governance programs using FOSS software. This includes [4]: 1. A single-window admission system for higher-secondary education 2. Computerization of the program of providing free lunch in schools 3. Online transfer and posting of teachers 4. Software for administering the state's annual Youth Festival (Arts competitions. Around 10,000 participants this year, often touted as Asia's largest such event.) 5. ERP software for arts festivals at the school level. 6. Software for administering scholarships 7. Centralised online textbook intend system 8. Payroll administration for teachers and other staff in the department 9. Software for monitoring physical fitness programmes in schools (In case you are wondering: every school is provided a (paid-for) broadband connection as well.) They estimate that the shift to FOSS has saved the state quite a bit of money already [5]: "The Project has supplied thousands of computers and laptops to schools in the state. about 50,000 computers to schools. The proprietary OS and other application software come with a price tag of about Rs. 10,000/- per PC. By deploying Free Software based Operating System and applications instead of Proprietary software , IT@School Project is able to save an amount of Rs.11 Crores (Rs. 110 million) each year. Also the Educational content like interactive multimedia CDs are now being developed on free software platform, resulting in a savings of Rs. 75 lakhs (Rs. 7.5 million). The examination software which was developed using free software has effected in a savings of about Rs. 25 lakhs (Rs. 2.5 millon)." [1] https://www.itschool.gov.in/glance.php https://www.itschool.gov.in/glance.php [2] https://www.itschool.gov.in/ https://www.itschool.gov.in/ [3] https://www.itschool.gov.in/downloads.php https://www.itschool.gov.in/downloads.php [4] https://www.itschool.gov.in/activities.php https://www.itschool.gov.in/activities.php [5] https://www.itschool.gov.in/otherprograms.php#6 https://www.itschool.gov.in/otherprograms.php#6 (Edit: Minor fixes, formatting.)
- briantakita 13y ago> “Consider installing BOSS [Bharat Operating System Solutions] Linux as one of the mandatory operating system,” It would be good for India to take control over it's own operating system. It would open up their market of software developers. Making the Linux community stronger is another strong benefit for everybody.
- Oculus 13y agoAside from the city of Munich, are their any other governments that are using Linux as their main operating system?
- camus2 13y agothe french "gendarmerie",a mix of military and police, moved their computers to Linux.
- liquidwax 13y agoNorth Korea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Star_OS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Star_OS
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- crdoconnor 13y agoEven North Korea, they're still training them on office/windows: http://imgur.com/lQQGjyu http://imgur.com/lQQGjyu (taken in a school in pyongsong, autumn last year)
- ekianjo 13y agoThis is probably just to make it look like they do learn stuff on computers, but the level of poverty in NK is so appalling I doubt they have computers in most schools.
- pskittle 13y agoWay to go! much needed.
- linux_devil 13y agoHope "may" changes to "will" in coming future . Not just state departments but infrastructure services here use windows , e.g.: metro stations , ATM machines . Switch can help to save money which can be used in other developments much needed for the society without comprising efficiency of governance.
- quarterwave 13y agoI've seen ATM's being serviced/refilled - one can usually spot a "tower" PC in there. When an ATM app crashes the underlying PC operating system GUI is visible - with the standard screen background. OTOH my <big bank in India> has good online services, usage pattern monitoring, two-factor authentication etc. With this bank I've never had a single online transaction as much as hang or go wrong in the past 10 years. When I travel I sometimes get a call to verify the transaction I've just made at an ATM. So the only conclusion I can draw is that the bank finds it easier to monitor/control things from their data center. They probably consider all terminals as vulnerable and operate from that premise.
- cycnusx 13y agoOSS, the order said, “is almost free of virus. Hence loss of information, hacking, phishing can be prevented… there is no need to spend on expensive anti virus software.” I disagree with that statement.
- D9u 13y agoI agree with you. Using OSS doesn't mean that you will have no software vulnerabilities, but when was the last time you heard a major news story about a Linux based virus?
- ojii 13y agoThe sad thing is, more widespread, high profile (eg government) deployment will likely increase the amount of those news stories. Until now attacking desktop Linux with viruses was simply not worth it.
- superuser2 13y agoIs there any evidence of credible/useful proprietary anti-virus software for Linux?
- noisyboy 13y agoI don't know about credibility but I use clamav and it was able to detect a (windows?) virus on my USB stick when I plugged it in while running Linux and removed the virus as well. That was useful.
- dredmorbius 13y agoThe general threat model for Linux systems is outdated installations with extant security holes, often remotely exploitable. This is in contrast with Windows in which a huge class of exploits are by way of content placed by users on their own systems, more often technically trojans than viruses. This isn't to say that Linux is wholly immune to security exploits. It's not. But it's hugely more manageable and securable than Windows is, even in more recent versions. Which, though they've addressed much of the problem, still leave huge classes of vulnerabilities open. The ability to configure minimal systems on Linux (principle of least privilege) with only the software and services required for functionality helps hugely in this.
- okasaki 13y agoWhenever these stories appear it seems impossible to tell if they're genuine or just trolling Microsoft to try to get a better deal.
- vince_refiti 13y agoYes. You'd think that they would have moved to open source already if they could. Impending end of support for XP was no secret nor unexpected.
- auctiontheory 13y agoIt's about time. In fact, it's way past time. But don't expect Microsoft to give up without a great deal more fight, a legal challenge or two, and other tactics from their vast playbook.
- S4M 13y agoWhat can they possibly do to prevent the state department to switch to Linux (except bribing some people)?
- noisyboy 13y agoYour "except" is pretty big to be put in "except". Apart from that, simply resistance from users, who are not really "computer people" and basically know that clicking the "w" icon launches the application on which letters can be drafted, is not a small matter. I hope the training programmes are well planned to cover that aspect.
- S4M 13y agoResistance to change from non "computer people", as you put it, has nothing to do with something Microsoft can do. And concerning the bribery, yes, I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of the main reason linux and free software in general didn't get more adoption.
- dan_bk 13y agoEvery new big player means "more eyes" on the code. And bugs get rooted out quicker. In the case of proprietary software, every new big player means "more social lock in effect".
- theyeti 13y agoThis may come as a bit skeptical, but IMHO the large scale adaptation of a Linux distro in Indian state departments seems a long way to. The lack of Linux operational training to the personnel along with replacement costs may call for an early demise to the plan to switch to Linux. While it does sound promising, the average government clerk in India, is computer literate in terms of Microsoft Office suite. Replacement of MS Office with Libre/Open Office suite itself is a big hurdle which in terms of usability is still in its early days. In addition, most systems on government offices I've seen run IE8 as their primary browsers, running applications "designed for IE only". I believe that if the switch to a Linux distro is to be made, the government should start with replacing leagcy windows software with their open source, linux compatible counterparts, before making the big move.
- digisign 13y agoThere are significant training cost assoc with windows 7,8, and later office vers as well. Xubuntu might be closer to XP in many respects.
- quanticle 13y agoThere isn't much of a training cost associated with upgrading to Windows 7. The Start Button has been replaced with a round icon, true, but it's in the same position and the start menu, itself, operates much as the one in Windows XP. Upgrading to Windows 8, yes, is a much more involved process and would involve much more user training. But, really, that's just sidestepping the issue. The real issue is that user documents are in Microsoft Word, Excel and Powerpoint formats, and, despite improvements, Open/Libre Office support for those documents is not nearly good enough to support moving to Linux full time. This actually leads to another question I've had. We see all these announcements about cities, states, and regional governments moving to Linux. Of those, how many actually go through with the move? How many have stuck with Linux 2 years out? 5 years out? It's impossible to say whether Linux is actually viable on the (corporate) desktop without knowing if these Linux migrations ever actually take place, and, if they take place, whether Linux manages to stick, or if there's another migration back to Windows once it becomes clear that Linux doesn't yet do the job for end-users.
- keithpeter 13y agoA number of comments here are pointing out the considerable barriers to migration away from Microsoft based systems; back end systems; file compatibility with MS Office formats; training needs for significantly different interfaces on a 'desktop' system. The UK govts recent suggestion that we require open formats may begin to address one of those issues [1]. The move to more recent browser mediated applications might mitigate another. A new generation will have grown up with devices that probably don't run Windows [2] and that might reduce the training issues associated with UI changes. Can I turn the question round: how many decades do we think that the default systems for large enterprises and governments will be provided by Microsoft? And if a country as huge as India with a developed IT workforce of the kind India has decides to start a migration programme, the resulting pool of skilled people and working software (GPL Licensed software) would make future migrations that much easier. I personally wish the UK had a Munich or two simply so we can develop the skills here. [1] http://opensource.com/government/14/2/uk-government-open-standards http://opensource.com/government/14/2/uk-government-open-sta... [2] http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2014/03/21/microsoft_sorgen_intelligent_devices/ http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2014/03/21/microsoft_sorgen...
- eitally 13y agoThere have actually been quite a few public organizations that have migrated to Linux: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_adopters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_adopters
- keithpeter 13y agoCtrl-F and UK reveals no UK based examples on that pager. Alas. Once again, we risk missing out on a potential new market.
- tatqx 13y agoSlightly off note, but any movement by the Indian government should be appreciated, considering how much inertia they have :) More on the topic - way back in 1995 when CD-ROM drives became affordable and popular in India [1], I expected Linux to thrive in the country considering how nobody, especially students and enthusiasts, had the money to buy legit copies of Windows. Sadly that never happened. At least the universities could have done their bit to teach and promote Linux, but they too didn't. [1] Internet connections were so slow that it was impossible for most people to download a Linux distro on off the internet. But there were a lot of computer magazines distributing various Linux distros on CDs for a Rs. 100 or thereabout.
- groovy2shoes 13y ago> Internet connections were so slow that it was impossible for most people to download a Linux distro on off the internet. But there were a lot of computer magazines distributing various Linux distros on CDs for a Rs. 100 or thereabout. As a teenager, the only Internet access I could afford was Netzero. Any time I had $13 to spare, I'd head to Books-a-Million and buy a copy of the Linux Format, if only so I could upgrade my Linux partition. Good times :) Do Linux mags still come with discs?
- sreejithr 13y agoState of Kerala in India already uses Linux for almost everything. From basic functioning of government offices to computer education in the schools.
- webreac 13y agoI think the main difficulty in migration from windows XP to linux is leaving word, excel, outlook, ie and powerpoint. If users have already migrated to open alternatives (libre office, ...), the OS switch is almost transparent.
- donniezazen 13y agoI don't think Microsoft Office is any better than LibreOffice for general users. Most of the Indian government officials are tad computer illiterate. They would not know what they use.
- dijit 13y agoeven basic things in Excel are not supported in libreoffice, such as validations. I recently attempted to move everyone in my office to libreoffice where possible and was met with a very large resistence from people who's spreadsheets simply did not work. it's hard telling people that they have to edit functions/macros that were set up by someone smarter than them 10 years ago.
- webreac 13y agoThat is commpletely my point. I think there is more resistence for word, excel, outlook, powerpoint than for windows.
- aniketpant 13y agoI think you should not club the two points together. Your first point makes a lot of sense because even if you say that the Indian government officials were "tad computer illiterate", LibreOffice is still not an acceptable replacement majorly due the UI and the loss of basic features.
- donniezazen 13y agoI think LibreOffice UI falls into acceptable category. It might not be the most polished UI but it gets the work done efficiently. There is not much difference in productivity in two acceptable UIs. A UI can be thought of being easy-to-use with the frequency of usage. I have been using Linux for many years. Now, whenever I use Windows the only thought in my mind is how can someone use a software so clumsy.
- rajeevk 13y agoI am curious to know more about BOSS. The http://bosslinux.in/ http://bosslinux.in/ is not opening (not responding to http request). Does anybody know any alternate link?
- isaacjohnwesley 13y agoI think they crashed :P
- abrowne 13y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOSS_Linux http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOSS_Linux
- patja 13y agoI know this is completely tangential, but I am hoping someone can enlighten me. What's the best way to think about or explain the prevalence of grammatical errors in the Indian English-language press? Is it because Indian English is its own distinct dialect or variation with different rules, similar to differences between American and British English? Is it because English is fundamentally a lingua franca in India where nobody is expected to really master the grammar, including the press? Is it because the press in India doesn't consider it important? I know in my local press in the US I've seen many more typographical and grammatical errors creep in since newspapers went into decline a few years ago. Or is there something else explaining it which I have not imagined?
- fzltrp 13y agoIsn't there also the global decline of english quality because of it being broadly used on internet by non native speakers? Many people (including me) get influenced by what they read on the net, to the point of accepting some of the strange forms you describe further down. There's also a global lack of proofreading all across the web, people editing content through web interfaces, on devices not supporting even simple spellchecking. English on the multicultural web is a strange melting pot of english forms and foreign ones being shoehorned in english. How much is (the)[1] american english influenced by spanish for instance, given the growing incidence of the spanish speaking population for the last few decades? [1] Here I'm not even sure if I need to use "the" there. In my native language I would have to use it, but isn't the expression "american english" specific enough to avoid the need of it?
- bct 13y agoThere's a whole Wikipedia article on the subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_English http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_English
- patja 13y agoThanks, I read that article. Do you think Indian English is strictly colloquial similar to the dialects of English we have in the US? Or does it have its own accepted grammar enforced by proofreaders and copy editors? For example African American Vernacular (aka ebonics) and Southern American English both have their own Wikipedia pages as well, but you would never find the Washington Post or New York Times using them in an article.
- jezclaremurugan 13y agoFor people wondering about BOSS linux, it is Debian based, and is bundled with LibreOffice, Gnome, Iceweasel (browser) etc. the usual stuff and is distributed by CDAC Chennai. CDAC Chennai adds value to the distro by providing support (they have a toll free number where anyone call for any doubts in relation to BOSS), ensuring all the drivers of local printers are present, local fonts are all set up and working right from the beginning. They also provide training when any govt. department switches to BOSS. Source - I worked in CDAC Chennai and was involved in a project related to BOSS, and quite a few depts. were switching to BOSS while I was there (2 yrs back)