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> Italy (3 PM's in row without elections whatsoever! Bullshit. After Mario Monti's govern we got elections. The Democratic Party won. It put Letta as PM. Then

by riquito 13y ago

> Italy (3 PM's in row without elections whatsoever! Bullshit. After Mario Monti's govern we got elections. The Democratic Party won. It put Letta as PM. Then Letta resigned and another man from the same party continued to govern. Since we do not elect the PM directly, what's the problem? We elected a party, and the party is still there. Is your concept of democracy "nothing is right unless my party wins"? > Napolitano, Italy's President should commit suicide out of embarrassment IMHO) ... speachless

davidw 13y ago
Yes - Italy has plenty of problems, but it's still a place where people vote, and it matters. I hate this defeatist, cynical bullshit about "there are no democracies" - it only plays into the hands of those who want people to sit down, shut up and not get involved.
- 3pt14159 13y ago
  No it doesn't. It plays to a number of movements, one of which is revolution, which happened in Ukraine and could happen elsewhere.
  - davidw 13y ago
    It might, if people really believe it, which they don't, because it's bullshit in most western countries. Imperfect democracies? Yes, of course. We need to be constantly vigilant and fight to improve things. No doubts about that. But "woe is us the US is a dictatorship" is silly talk. It is, like it has always been, an imperfect democracy in need of constant improvement.
    - Cyph0n 13y ago
      Exactly. Fix your problematic democracies before attacking other ones or, worse yet, intervening (think: Egypt).
- atmosx 13y ago
  I'm not for not getting involved. Italy as Greece will never get elections if the results are not the ones the EU likes. The fact that suddenly Mario Monti and Papademos were put by the EU instead of voted (although extremely corrupted) PMs says a lot about democracy in both of these countries. Especially Greece of course. That said, my comment didn't wanted to sound like it did. I should have been a little more careful and detailed... What I mean was that it's very relative on how one perceives democracy. For sure in Greece there's no democracy in the way most of people of a democratic government. On the other hand of course we're not banana-democracies either. But I feel that instead of going to a more democratize governance worldwide, we're moving towards xenophobia, intolerance and uncertainty. Anyway wanted to just clear out a couple of things.
  - davidw 13y ago
    > Italy as Greece will never get elections if the results are not the ones the EU likes. Nearly 20 years of Berlusconi says otherwise, along with the large proportion of the vote that Beppe Grillo got during the last election.
    - atmosx 13y ago
      Sure, that's why when things got out of control, they put Mario Monti and removed Berlusconi. Suddenly the population wasn't wise enough to make the right choice.

by riquito 13y ago

davidw 13y ago

Yes - Italy has plenty of problems, but it's still a place where people vote, and it matters. I hate this defeatist, cynical bullshit about "there are no democracies" - it only plays into the hands of those who want people to sit down, shut up and not get involved.

3pt14159 13y ago
No it doesn't. It plays to a number of movements, one of which is revolution, which happened in Ukraine and could happen elsewhere.
- davidw 13y ago
  It might, if people really believe it, which they don't, because it's bullshit in most western countries. Imperfect democracies? Yes, of course. We need to be constantly vigilant and fight to improve things. No doubts about that. But "woe is us the US is a dictatorship" is silly talk. It is, like it has always been, an imperfect democracy in need of constant improvement.
  - Cyph0n 13y ago
    Exactly. Fix your problematic democracies before attacking other ones or, worse yet, intervening (think: Egypt).
atmosx 13y ago
I'm not for not getting involved. Italy as Greece will never get elections if the results are not the ones the EU likes. The fact that suddenly Mario Monti and Papademos were put by the EU instead of voted (although extremely corrupted) PMs says a lot about democracy in both of these countries. Especially Greece of course. That said, my comment didn't wanted to sound like it did. I should have been a little more careful and detailed... What I mean was that it's very relative on how one perceives democracy. For sure in Greece there's no democracy in the way most of people of a democratic government. On the other hand of course we're not banana-democracies either. But I feel that instead of going to a more democratize governance worldwide, we're moving towards xenophobia, intolerance and uncertainty. Anyway wanted to just clear out a couple of things.
- davidw 13y ago
  > Italy as Greece will never get elections if the results are not the ones the EU likes. Nearly 20 years of Berlusconi says otherwise, along with the large proportion of the vote that Beppe Grillo got during the last election.
  - atmosx 13y ago
    Sure, that's why when things got out of control, they put Mario Monti and removed Berlusconi. Suddenly the population wasn't wise enough to make the right choice.