11 ms·

One of the great things that has come of this entire ordeal is simply education. I usually take pride in doing my research well before buying something, but it

• rayiner 13y ago
  How many employees do dealers have in Texas, versus Tesla? Now do you get why politicians get on their knees for special interests?
  • jfb 13y ago
    See also: how much money in local taxes do car dealerships pay vs. Tesla? They are very big players in local economies.
    • voodoomagicman 13y ago
      But how many people buy cars? Dealerships profits / car salesmen's wages come at the expense of car buyers as much as car manufacturers.
      • jfb 13y ago
        Oh, I'm not arguing in favor of the rent-seeking of car dealerships -- I just think it's important to remember that not every legal regime is the natural end result of corruption. The car dealerships have this cozy arrangement because they pay loads of local taxes, employ lots of people, and have a strong and well organized lobby.
    • Jtsummers 13y ago
      Aside from property taxes on the dealerships' land holdings, most states have ad valorem taxes on cars. This is typically paid whether you bought the car in the state or not, often at the time you register the vehicle in a state. This is also, typically, an annual tax. So if I buy a car in FL and register it in GA, I'll essentially pay sales tax twice (once in FL and once at registration in GA, also depends on how much the ad valorem tax is). So GA tax revenue will be consistent whether I buy it from the dealership or from Tesla. Regarding employees, direct sales will reduce the number of sales people, yes. Or it'll change the nature of the salesman's job. From pusher on a commission to a salaryman. Now, Tesla and other electrics may not need frequent work done by mechanics (even the standard maintenance stuffs), but other cars still would. Just because I bought my Subaru from Subaru proper instead of the local dealership doesn't mean I won't need to take it in for service every 6 (or so) months. And if electric cars really do have an effect on employment of mechanics and service technicians, then that's the consequence. We can't legislate the cars away to preserve jobs anymore than we can legislate manufacturing robots away to preserve the jobs of the assembly line worker. (That said, a change in employment status of a large segment of the population will have to be dealt with. Either by charity, retraining, welfare or some combination of those and other methods I've not mentioned.)
      • gamblor956 13y ago
        Car registration fees are not sales taxes. You only pay the sales tax once, on the purchase. You might pay a use tax if you ship or otherwise transfer the car to another state, but for the most part use tax laws are not well enforced. Sales taxes in most states go into the general fund. The registration fee is a fixed amount that is not dependent on the price of the car. You pay an annual registration fee in every state in which you reside and intend to use the car. The registration fee in most states goes into a restricted use fund that pays for things like road maintenance.
        • klinquist 13y ago
          The registration fee in California scales with vehicle price (blue book value).
        • 13y ago
    • wmeredith 13y ago
      Yep. The NPR Planet Money episode said it's typical for car dealers to be responsible for about 20% of a states sales tax revenues. TWENTY PERCENT.
  • OWaz 13y ago
    In Arizona where I live one of the biggest campaign contributors for any party is a family that owns dealerships across the state. According to this article [1] in 2010 this same family/company contributed more to political campaigns than did General Motors (see #6 on the list). Yes it's crazy that a corporation can donate - but that's another issue altogether. I don't think a politician is concerned about jobs as much as they are concerned with campaign contributions. I've seen first hand how campaign contributions work between the wealthy and politicians. It's unreal. In 2004 my uncle (founder of a big time HMO) contributed to the Bush campaign. In return he was granted exclusive time to the President to address whatever concerns he had. The White House would call him to guide the President on policy decisions. The White House will never call you or me for our opinion because we didn't pay for that privilege. [1]:http://threesonorans.com/2010/11/11/jim-click-gives-more-political-donations-to-republicans-than-general-motors/ http://threesonorans.com/2010/11/11/jim-click-gives-more-pol...
    • Florin_Andrei 13y ago
      > I've seen first hand how campaign contributions work between the wealthy and politicians. How funny it is to see people complaining about the "government", when really these days the government is merely the sock puppet of the biggest piles of money (big corpo, the ultra-rich), who use it to buy legislation and policy decisions that further their own interests. While the dogs keep barking at the rag doll, the real person keeps kicking them in the backside.
  • SilasX 13y ago
    How many people in Texas enjoy the car buying process, versus hate it? Now do you get why that might not be a sufficient explanation?
    • enraged_camel 13y ago
      People may not enjoy the car buying process, but many of them will still choose to put up with it if it means keeping their neighbors employed. Because if the neighbor loses their job, they can lose their home to foreclosure, and foreclosed homes reduce the market value of the rest of the houses in the neighborhood... and so on.
      • Tactic 13y ago
        I think you overestimate people's concern with their neighbor's job opportunities versus their own welfare/comfort. I point to Walmart as just the tip of the iceburg in making my case.
• Patrick_Devine 13y ago
  As has been said before countless times, we have the best congress that money can buy. This is why rulings like Citizens United are turning this country into a kleptocracy.
  • humanrebar 13y ago
    The car dealership system predates Citizens United by decades. The only way to stop lobbying is to regulate how people communicate with their elected officials, and that cure sounds worst than the disease.
  • bcoates 13y ago
    Car dealer protectionism has nothing to do with the US Congress. Citizens United doesn't make it easier to bribe politicians, the entire point of PACs running ads is to lobby voters directly instead of the traditional method of bribing legislators.
    • Florin_Andrei 13y ago
      As long as anyone is allowed to give money to particular politicians and parties, as long as the entire political process is not funded exclusively from public money, then money will keep ruling the land.
      • humanrebar 13y ago
        As long as there's money in manipulating the government, then money will manipulate the government, whether it's through campaign donations, bribery, cronyism, or something else.
      • nsxwolf 13y ago
        Maybe the real problem is that so many people are susceptible to cheesy attack ads from PACs. Maybe we should try to fix that instead.
        • Florin_Andrei 13y ago
• chongli 13y ago
  It's absolutely comical to me how politicians will tote the values of a capitalistic society, then turn around and get on their knees for special interest lobbies. This is only a contradiction if you view the government as some sort of impartial referee in the game of capitalism. If instead you rightly view them as the biggest player on the field that bullies everyone else and picks favourites then there is no contradiction.
  • emiljbs 13y ago
    >This is only a contradiction if you view the government as some sort of impartial referee in the game of capitalism. If instead you rightly view them as the biggest player on the field that bullies everyone else and picks favourites then there is no contradiction. Or just as well see them as a parent that keeps the children from bullying each other.
    • humanrebar 13y ago
      If you allow for the possibility of child abuse, neglect, and favoritism in your analogy, sure. EDIT: Also, the children work and the parent collects an allowance.
      • BrandonMarc 13y ago
        thanks to your edit, I wish I could upvote 10x ...
    • jerf 13y ago
      Again, that implies a level of disinterest in the outcome that demonstrably fails to model the real actions of the real government.
  • Florin_Andrei 13y ago
    > If instead you rightly view them as the biggest player on the field that bullies everyone else and picks favourites then there is no contradiction. Yes, because that image is false. The government is mostly the sock puppet of whoever has most money - biggest corporations and richest individuals, who essentially buy whatever politics suits them best. Rest assured they derive great satisfaction from your misdirected anger against the "government".
• Florin_Andrei 13y ago
  > dealers are forced middlemen "Forced", in that they force themselves upon you.
• stcredzero 13y ago
  It's absolutely comical to me how politicians will tote the values of a capitalistic society, then turn around and get on their knees for special interest lobbies. There is a weird paradox, in that lobbyists are often the best source of quality information for legislators. They have the time and money to produce well packaged and well researched information. That it has a bias for the lobbyists clients follows from that, however. Another paradox: Our system has us electing the most efficient marketers for a job that should center around strategic thinking and collating complex information.
• SixSigma 13y ago
  Did your research extend as far as to why it is illegal ? When it was introduced it was only the manufacturers that were able to sell cars to you, by their own choice. The law was introduced to break the stranglehold that manufacturers had on retail operations. Car dealers were able, for the first time, to guide buyers through the positive and negative aspects of the features of one model against another in a climate where they weren't just bashing the competition to make a sale. It is ironic you choose Toyota as your example because when breaking into the US market they faced similar problems as Tesla does now. At the time, in Japan, the car dealers sold cars door to door, there were no showrooms. And you dealt with the same dealer for all your life. Japanese joked that it was easier to lose contact with your parents than it was your car dealer. Boy, does the US now hate Toyota http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26650173 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26650173 That's some spin Holder puts on the story.I guess he's got to try and get GM's bailout money back somehow, just another $23.9bn to go
• Shivetya 13y ago
  Politicians regularly use their position to make society bend to their will, this occurs regardless of the professed economic model or freedoms. Politicians are the one percents. The rich just have a better means to make them look away.