5 ms·

Within the expat community I think there is a different distinction. Expats (to me, and to some of the people I know who use that term to describe themselves)

by jzwinck 13y ago

Within the expat community I think there is a different distinction. Expats (to me, and to some of the people I know who use that term to describe themselves) are on a temporary assignment ("secondment") for work. People who move to another country on their own, without a company transfer, and/or who intend to stay there indefinitely, are not expats. There are also plenty of cases where an expat becomes "localized" and stays somewhere longer, but is no longer considered an expat by their company, and perhaps no longer by their local friends. Different people use the term in different ways, unfortunately including what you said. But the above is how I look at it.

nbudden 13y ago
Depends on your area I guess. In North-Eastern Asia my experience is that 'expats' refers to those who have moved for good, and anyone staying temporarily is just a 'foreigner'.
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  My dongbei experience has it that all foreigners are referred to as expats if they are working for a real company and not just teaching English...but expat is actually a technical term that our HR uses to distinguish between packaged employees (many of whom are Chinese with green cards or us citizenship) and random locally hired foreigners (who have no packages and are more likely not Chinese).
TillE 13y ago
> People who move to another country on their own, without a company transfer, and/or who intend to stay there indefinitely, are not expats. That first part is a really strange criterion which I've never seen before. As for staying indefinitely, that's why I don't necessarily consider myself an immigrant - I've been here for six years, but the future is always uncertain. I might have a different opinion if Germany allowed dual citizenship through naturalization, but they don't.
- Dirty-flow 13y ago
  It's allowed but not for all nationalities.
rmc 13y ago
Well, sure within the expat community, I'm sure they'd love to point out they aren't like them. Y'know, Them, the bad ones. Nonononono, we're the good ones.
camus2 13y ago
> who intend to stay there indefinitely, are not expats. because you think immigrants want to stay indefinitely? why because they are poor and you're rich?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
dfc 13y ago
The corporate component of your expat definition appears to preclude writers and artists from being expats.
- jzwinck 13y ago
  If a writer is freelancing and moves somewhere on a temporary visa with the intention of leaving in a year or three, I'd probably call them an expat, sure. Obviously there's no bright line, and different people use the term for different things (even crypto-hate speech, as evidenced by other commenters in this thread!).
  - dalke 13y ago
    I suspect dfc refers in part to famous expats like Gertrude Stein, Henry James, and John Singer Sargent? They were part of the American expat community 100 years ago, and all lived in Europe for decades. Obviously language changes, but doing a search for "expat artist" or "expat writer" easily finds things like: http://juliedawnfox.com/2013/07/05/expat-artists-algarve/ http://juliedawnfox.com/2013/07/05/expat-artists-algarve/ - a British expat who lives full-time in Portugal http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2014/02/27/expat-artist-enjoys-sweet-smell-of-success/ http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2014/02/27/expat-arti... - another British expat, 18 years in Spain http://www.theyucatantimes.com/2013/11/meet-expat-writers-living-in-yucatan/ http://www.theyucatantimes.com/2013/11/meet-expat-writers-li... - various expat writers in Yucatan, including a Canadian who moved there in the 1970s for love Also, take a look at the profiles at http://www.expatinfodesk.com/our-authors/ http://www.expatinfodesk.com/our-authors/ . While some moved because of work, others say things like "Her relocation to Barcelona happened almost by accident, after she and her daughter set off on a European adventure. The adventure turned into a settlement and the pair are now officially expatriates - at least for the time being." and "... came to Los Angeles originally as a student, with an intention of going home after completing her sociology studies in college. Now she finds herself still living in Los Angeles after a couple of decades" Thus, while you can say "the above is how I look at it", you cannot really argue "Within the expat community I think there is a different distinction ... ", because the expat community doesn't seems to agree with your corporate, short-term qualifications.
TelmoMenezes 13y ago
Sure, this is the sort of BS people use to post-rationalise the distinction between "immigrant" and "expat". The (not so hidden) truth is that it is meant to convey a status distinction that many people are too hypocritical to acknowledge, and that has a lot to do with skin color and country of origin.
- bradleysmith 13y ago
  I grew up in Saudi Arabia, where my family had no inclination nor legal standing to gain citizenship. We were clearly, and regularly identified as expatriates. In Dhahran, there were a large number of foreign workers from Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and Nepal, who performed a variety of menial labors. These laborers would often have their passports held by Saudi nationals, go periods without pay with little food, or live without provided housing. They were clearly and regularly regarded by many in that town as 'lesser' in some degree or another, most likely because of their countries of origin. Although some would call them 'migrant workers' or 'immigrants', these people were also referred to as 'expats' by the majority of the expatriates I knew, and their employers. I distinctly remember someone correcting me when referring to them as immigrants. This is an argument over semantics, but not an insignificant one. you're claiming a particular word that I have used throughout my life to identify a great many people is an inherently bigoted instance of double-speak that masks the differentiation between classes of countries people come from. the truth is, "expatriate" is a respectful way to refer to people working outside of their own country. What the word is "meant to convey" is as amalgamous as the people that decide to use it, as is true for all words. If you see it is a differentiator between have-and have-not country origins, fine, but you are putting quite a bit of stock in someone's language choice reflecting a particularly heinous belief or acceptance. I assure you that there are a great many people that do not use this word as you have described it.
  - TelmoMenezes 13y ago
    Thanks, that is interesting. I should have added the caveat that I'm speaking from a western perspective (and the irony isn't lost on me that I missed this while making claims about xenophobia :).
abrugsch 13y ago
As long as the USA makes me file a tax return and require prying into my bank accounts (FACTA/FBAR etc) when my income is entirely earned and spent in the UK, then I'm an "Expat", despite having lived here for nearly 30 years and the US gov doesn't consider me American 'enough' for my son to be allowed US citizenship...

by jzwinck 13y ago

nbudden 13y ago

Depends on your area I guess. In North-Eastern Asia my experience is that 'expats' refers to those who have moved for good, and anyone staying temporarily is just a 'foreigner'.

seanmcdirmid 13y ago
My dongbei experience has it that all foreigners are referred to as expats if they are working for a real company and not just teaching English...but expat is actually a technical term that our HR uses to distinguish between packaged employees (many of whom are Chinese with green cards or us citizenship) and random locally hired foreigners (who have no packages and are more likely not Chinese).

TillE 13y ago

> People who move to another country on their own, without a company transfer, and/or who intend to stay there indefinitely, are not expats. That first part is a really strange criterion which I've never seen before. As for staying indefinitely, that's why I don't necessarily consider myself an immigrant - I've been here for six years, but the future is always uncertain. I might have a different opinion if Germany allowed dual citizenship through naturalization, but they don't.

Dirty-flow 13y ago
It's allowed but not for all nationalities.

rmc 13y ago

Well, sure within the expat community, I'm sure they'd love to point out they aren't like them. Y'know, Them, the bad ones. Nonononono, we're the good ones.

camus2 13y ago

> who intend to stay there indefinitely, are not expats. because you think immigrants want to stay indefinitely? why because they are poor and you're rich?

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

dfc 13y ago

The corporate component of your expat definition appears to preclude writers and artists from being expats.

jzwinck 13y ago
If a writer is freelancing and moves somewhere on a temporary visa with the intention of leaving in a year or three, I'd probably call them an expat, sure. Obviously there's no bright line, and different people use the term for different things (even crypto-hate speech, as evidenced by other commenters in this thread!).
- dalke 13y ago
  I suspect dfc refers in part to famous expats like Gertrude Stein, Henry James, and John Singer Sargent? They were part of the American expat community 100 years ago, and all lived in Europe for decades. Obviously language changes, but doing a search for "expat artist" or "expat writer" easily finds things like: http://juliedawnfox.com/2013/07/05/expat-artists-algarve/ http://juliedawnfox.com/2013/07/05/expat-artists-algarve/ - a British expat who lives full-time in Portugal http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2014/02/27/expat-artist-enjoys-sweet-smell-of-success/ http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2014/02/27/expat-arti... - another British expat, 18 years in Spain http://www.theyucatantimes.com/2013/11/meet-expat-writers-living-in-yucatan/ http://www.theyucatantimes.com/2013/11/meet-expat-writers-li... - various expat writers in Yucatan, including a Canadian who moved there in the 1970s for love Also, take a look at the profiles at http://www.expatinfodesk.com/our-authors/ http://www.expatinfodesk.com/our-authors/ . While some moved because of work, others say things like "Her relocation to Barcelona happened almost by accident, after she and her daughter set off on a European adventure. The adventure turned into a settlement and the pair are now officially expatriates - at least for the time being." and "... came to Los Angeles originally as a student, with an intention of going home after completing her sociology studies in college. Now she finds herself still living in Los Angeles after a couple of decades" Thus, while you can say "the above is how I look at it", you cannot really argue "Within the expat community I think there is a different distinction ... ", because the expat community doesn't seems to agree with your corporate, short-term qualifications.

TelmoMenezes 13y ago

Sure, this is the sort of BS people use to post-rationalise the distinction between "immigrant" and "expat". The (not so hidden) truth is that it is meant to convey a status distinction that many people are too hypocritical to acknowledge, and that has a lot to do with skin color and country of origin.

bradleysmith 13y ago
I grew up in Saudi Arabia, where my family had no inclination nor legal standing to gain citizenship. We were clearly, and regularly identified as expatriates. In Dhahran, there were a large number of foreign workers from Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and Nepal, who performed a variety of menial labors. These laborers would often have their passports held by Saudi nationals, go periods without pay with little food, or live without provided housing. They were clearly and regularly regarded by many in that town as 'lesser' in some degree or another, most likely because of their countries of origin. Although some would call them 'migrant workers' or 'immigrants', these people were also referred to as 'expats' by the majority of the expatriates I knew, and their employers. I distinctly remember someone correcting me when referring to them as immigrants. This is an argument over semantics, but not an insignificant one. you're claiming a particular word that I have used throughout my life to identify a great many people is an inherently bigoted instance of double-speak that masks the differentiation between classes of countries people come from. the truth is, "expatriate" is a respectful way to refer to people working outside of their own country. What the word is "meant to convey" is as amalgamous as the people that decide to use it, as is true for all words. If you see it is a differentiator between have-and have-not country origins, fine, but you are putting quite a bit of stock in someone's language choice reflecting a particularly heinous belief or acceptance. I assure you that there are a great many people that do not use this word as you have described it.
- TelmoMenezes 13y ago
  Thanks, that is interesting. I should have added the caveat that I'm speaking from a western perspective (and the irony isn't lost on me that I missed this while making claims about xenophobia :).

abrugsch 13y ago

As long as the USA makes me file a tax return and require prying into my bank accounts (FACTA/FBAR etc) when my income is entirely earned and spent in the UK, then I'm an "Expat", despite having lived here for nearly 30 years and the US gov doesn't consider me American 'enough' for my son to be allowed US citizenship...