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It might surprise you to hear that there are single people who have children. Furthermore, there are plenty of people who are not single and no not have or wan

by Crito 13y ago

It might surprise you to hear that there are single people who have children. Furthermore, there are plenty of people who are not single and no not have or want children. Due to advances in human rights and standard of living, having or not having children is now decoupled from being or not being single. A reversal of this would be a major regression in society.

rthomas6 13y ago
How do you think the average quality of upbringing with a single parent compares to average quality of upbringing with two parents?
- Crito 13y ago
  How do you think the average quality of upbringing is for a child who's parents are separated? How do you think the average quality of upbringing is for children who's parents should be separated, but are not? Relationships turning sour is a fact of life. If a relationship between two adults sours, I assert that it is almost always better for the child in the long run for the parents to realize this and separate. Of course if we could live in a utopia where every child gets two loving parents who get along with each other, that would be great, but that will never happen and it has never happened in the past. Increased separation rates are an improvement over the alternative. Wishing that there were fewer single parents is like wishing that fewer people had to experience life-saving surgery when the alternative is needing that surgery but not getting it. Yeah, it would be great if nobody received life-saving surgery because nobody fell ill in the first place... but that's not happening anytime soon. Edit: @ChuckMcM: I am aware of what he was alluding to. I believe that he has drawn the wrong conclusions from those statistics. Two parents being better than one does not imply that it is better for all of those children with one parent to have their parents still together. Many/most of those children are better off with one parent than with two parents in a shitty relationship. Crudely: 1 parent < 2 parents (in general) but more specifically I assert: 2 parents (in a bad relationship) < 1 parent < 2 parents (in a good relationship) The more children we can shift from the first situation into the second, the better. Moving them into the third would be great, but there is little way to enact public policy to encourage or facilitate that.
  - ChuckMcM 13y ago
    What rthomas was alluding to was fairly extensive research into the success outcomes of children of zero (orphans), one (single parent), two (dual parenting), and more than two (village parenting). Those studies suggest that two or more adults sharing parental responsibility for a child increase the child's success outcome significantly.
  - meric 13y ago
    You can go from 2 parents (in a bad relationship) to 2 parents (in a good relationship) But you cannot go from 1 parent to 2 parents (in a good relationship) Even if the 1 parent remarries. It just doesn't work like that, it's not and never will be the same, even if it's somewhat better than having only 1 parent. Please don't advocate for moving from the first situation into the second. Coming from someone who's lived it. 2 parents (in a bad relationship) > 1 parent You can fix it by removing no-fault divorce, and raise the age a man can marry without parent approval to 25. That'll make sure future potential parents pick their partners more carefully.
    - Crito 13y ago
      Yes, sometimes parents in a bad relationships can fix their relationship. Marriage counselling is a great idea for couples who's relationships are on the rocks. Very often however the situation is well beyond repair. Sometimes the relationships were built on a foundation of abuse in the first place, so there isn't even anything positive to restore. In those situations, we should provide all the encouragement and assistance to single parents as we can muster. > "Coming from someone who's lived it. 2 parents (in a bad relationship) > 1 parent" Your experience, while valuable, should be taken for what it is: your experience. (In the interest of disclosure, I feel that I should mention that my parents have never been separated. I was lucky.)
      - humanrebar 13y ago
        > I was lucky. Or you don't give your parents enough credit.
    - 13y ago
- sexmonad 13y ago
  I'm curious how it compares to the average quality of upbringing with three parents.
humanrebar 13y ago
> Due to advances in human rights and standard of living, having or not having children is now decoupled from being or not being single. But standard of living is not decoupled from being single or not, especially when kids are in the picture.
PeterisP 13y ago
Even more, the classic concept of married couples having kids is now in the minority. At least for me, local statistics show that the majority of children are born to unmarried parents; and only ~65% of school-age children are raised by both parents. So it's not even a case for exceptions, but a socially accepted, very common phenomenon.
- pbhjpbhj 13y ago
  In the UK, based on an ONS report: "Although unmarried couples are now more likely statistically to have children than married couples – a reflection of the fact that they tend to be younger overall – most children are still being brought up by married couples, as they tend to have larger families." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9953364/The-family-is-more-popular-than-ever.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9953364/The-family-is...

by Crito 13y ago

rthomas6 13y ago

How do you think the average quality of upbringing with a single parent compares to average quality of upbringing with two parents?

Crito 13y ago
How do you think the average quality of upbringing is for a child who's parents are separated? How do you think the average quality of upbringing is for children who's parents should be separated, but are not? Relationships turning sour is a fact of life. If a relationship between two adults sours, I assert that it is almost always better for the child in the long run for the parents to realize this and separate. Of course if we could live in a utopia where every child gets two loving parents who get along with each other, that would be great, but that will never happen and it has never happened in the past. Increased separation rates are an improvement over the alternative. Wishing that there were fewer single parents is like wishing that fewer people had to experience life-saving surgery when the alternative is needing that surgery but not getting it. Yeah, it would be great if nobody received life-saving surgery because nobody fell ill in the first place... but that's not happening anytime soon. Edit: @ChuckMcM: I am aware of what he was alluding to. I believe that he has drawn the wrong conclusions from those statistics. Two parents being better than one does not imply that it is better for all of those children with one parent to have their parents still together. Many/most of those children are better off with one parent than with two parents in a shitty relationship. Crudely: 1 parent < 2 parents (in general) but more specifically I assert: 2 parents (in a bad relationship) < 1 parent < 2 parents (in a good relationship) The more children we can shift from the first situation into the second, the better. Moving them into the third would be great, but there is little way to enact public policy to encourage or facilitate that.
- ChuckMcM 13y ago
  What rthomas was alluding to was fairly extensive research into the success outcomes of children of zero (orphans), one (single parent), two (dual parenting), and more than two (village parenting). Those studies suggest that two or more adults sharing parental responsibility for a child increase the child's success outcome significantly.
- meric 13y ago
  You can go from 2 parents (in a bad relationship) to 2 parents (in a good relationship) But you cannot go from 1 parent to 2 parents (in a good relationship) Even if the 1 parent remarries. It just doesn't work like that, it's not and never will be the same, even if it's somewhat better than having only 1 parent. Please don't advocate for moving from the first situation into the second. Coming from someone who's lived it. 2 parents (in a bad relationship) > 1 parent You can fix it by removing no-fault divorce, and raise the age a man can marry without parent approval to 25. That'll make sure future potential parents pick their partners more carefully.
  - Crito 13y ago
    Yes, sometimes parents in a bad relationships can fix their relationship. Marriage counselling is a great idea for couples who's relationships are on the rocks. Very often however the situation is well beyond repair. Sometimes the relationships were built on a foundation of abuse in the first place, so there isn't even anything positive to restore. In those situations, we should provide all the encouragement and assistance to single parents as we can muster. > "Coming from someone who's lived it. 2 parents (in a bad relationship) > 1 parent" Your experience, while valuable, should be taken for what it is: your experience. (In the interest of disclosure, I feel that I should mention that my parents have never been separated. I was lucky.)
    - humanrebar 13y ago
      > I was lucky. Or you don't give your parents enough credit.
  - 13y ago
sexmonad 13y ago
I'm curious how it compares to the average quality of upbringing with three parents.

humanrebar 13y ago

> Due to advances in human rights and standard of living, having or not having children is now decoupled from being or not being single. But standard of living is not decoupled from being single or not, especially when kids are in the picture.

PeterisP 13y ago

Even more, the classic concept of married couples having kids is now in the minority. At least for me, local statistics show that the majority of children are born to unmarried parents; and only ~65% of school-age children are raised by both parents. So it's not even a case for exceptions, but a socially accepted, very common phenomenon.

pbhjpbhj 13y ago
In the UK, based on an ONS report: "Although unmarried couples are now more likely statistically to have children than married couples – a reflection of the fact that they tend to be younger overall – most children are still being brought up by married couples, as they tend to have larger families." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9953364/The-family-is-more-popular-than-ever.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9953364/The-family-is...