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Either you're a troll or you're delusional. Which is it? >Apple is more a fashion company than a tech company. Not even remotely accurate for possible definit

Either you're a troll or you're delusional. Which is it? >Apple is more a fashion company than a tech company. Not even remotely accurate for possible definitions of either of those terms. >Those who buy and use its products are primarily concerned with advertising the fact that they use Apple products - conspicuous consumption. Oh really? You don't think it has anything to do with their excellent track record of hardware design, software design, reliability and usability? >It's no different from how Gucci or Prada owners make sure to prominently display the brand of their handbag when they are in public. Yes, because Dell and HP laptops are completely devoid of physical branding... >It's a simple form of signaling your identity, that you belong to a particular group. Or it's because Apple products let productive people be productive.

seanmcdirmid 13y ago
He always makes this same stale argument when Apple is mentioned. Check his comment hostory.
swamp40 13y ago
I think you both are describing different parts of the same elephant.
tripzilch 13y ago
> You don't think it has anything to do with their excellent track record of hardware design, software design, reliability and usability? Of course. It has to do with Apple's branding of "hardware design, software design, reliability and usability". Just like G-Star advertises their clothing as "raw", while their jeans are actually quite flimsy and rip or tear easily. Sure, they look pretty and well-fitted. Just like I would recommend my grandmother an iPad because I know it's well-designed and she'd have less trouble using it. > >It's no different from how Gucci or Prada owners make sure to prominently display the brand of their handbag when they are in public. > Yes, because Dell and HP laptops are completely devoid of physical branding... You're proving his point here: It's not like other brands of handbags (or shoes) are completely devoid of physical branding either. Yet it's not like their owners are even aware of its brand, half the time. In this context I'd sooner compare Apple products to Nike shoes, rather than the fashion "I have money to spend" signalling Gucci/Prada handbags. Come on, the evolution of "brands as lifestyle + identity" has been around for at least 30 years now. You should know a thing or two about how it works. It's not really a disputed theory. And you can't seriously deny that Apple isn't fighting along in the Big Brand mindshare arena just as much as Coca-Cola, Nike, Red Bull and Calvin Klein, in a sense that Dell, Asus or Lenovo are very much not. A quick litmus-test is whether they have a significant brand-identity that can be separated from their products (sometimes even more prominent than their actual core product, especially in the case of Coca-Cola or Red Bull). > >It's a simple form of signaling your identity, that you belong to a particular group. > Or it's because Apple products let productive people be productive. See what you just did? Put Apple product users in the group of "productive people being productive"? :) Would you ever say something as generic about a Lenovo laptop? (which has excellent hardware and lets productive people be very productive) That's because Apple is a brand identity, over just being a brand of laptops. As if they're charged with a kind of "soul". You don't have to consider it a bad thing, but I think it's important to at least be aware of these very real differences, because they do influence the way people act, behave and feel about their stuff. And it's nothing new, and it's nothing you can or should prevent, everyone is affected by these ideas to some extent, which is again why it's so important to be aware of it. Just don't deny it.
- makomk 13y ago
  Exactly! Discussions on HN (and elsewhere) have been full of Apple users bemoaning problems that, if they happened on Android, would be held up as proof that it was inherently crap. Because Apple have successfully branded themselves as the usable, well-designed option these issues get treated as a temporary aberration - even though from what I can tell they've always been the norm for Apple.

seanmcdirmid 13y ago

He always makes this same stale argument when Apple is mentioned. Check his comment hostory.

swamp40 13y ago

I think you both are describing different parts of the same elephant.

tripzilch 13y ago

> You don't think it has anything to do with their excellent track record of hardware design, software design, reliability and usability? Of course. It has to do with Apple's branding of "hardware design, software design, reliability and usability". Just like G-Star advertises their clothing as "raw", while their jeans are actually quite flimsy and rip or tear easily. Sure, they look pretty and well-fitted. Just like I would recommend my grandmother an iPad because I know it's well-designed and she'd have less trouble using it. > >It's no different from how Gucci or Prada owners make sure to prominently display the brand of their handbag when they are in public. > Yes, because Dell and HP laptops are completely devoid of physical branding... You're proving his point here: It's not like other brands of handbags (or shoes) are completely devoid of physical branding either. Yet it's not like their owners are even aware of its brand, half the time. In this context I'd sooner compare Apple products to Nike shoes, rather than the fashion "I have money to spend" signalling Gucci/Prada handbags. Come on, the evolution of "brands as lifestyle + identity" has been around for at least 30 years now. You should know a thing or two about how it works. It's not really a disputed theory. And you can't seriously deny that Apple isn't fighting along in the Big Brand mindshare arena just as much as Coca-Cola, Nike, Red Bull and Calvin Klein, in a sense that Dell, Asus or Lenovo are very much not. A quick litmus-test is whether they have a significant brand-identity that can be separated from their products (sometimes even more prominent than their actual core product, especially in the case of Coca-Cola or Red Bull). > >It's a simple form of signaling your identity, that you belong to a particular group. > Or it's because Apple products let productive people be productive. See what you just did? Put Apple product users in the group of "productive people being productive"? :) Would you ever say something as generic about a Lenovo laptop? (which has excellent hardware and lets productive people be very productive) That's because Apple is a brand identity, over just being a brand of laptops. As if they're charged with a kind of "soul". You don't have to consider it a bad thing, but I think it's important to at least be aware of these very real differences, because they do influence the way people act, behave and feel about their stuff. And it's nothing new, and it's nothing you can or should prevent, everyone is affected by these ideas to some extent, which is again why it's so important to be aware of it. Just don't deny it.

makomk 13y ago
Exactly! Discussions on HN (and elsewhere) have been full of Apple users bemoaning problems that, if they happened on Android, would be held up as proof that it was inherently crap. Because Apple have successfully branded themselves as the usable, well-designed option these issues get treated as a temporary aberration - even though from what I can tell they've always been the norm for Apple.