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As usual, another HN thread that perfectly exemplifies victim blaming and a collective burying of heads in the sand. There's a few people on here who seem to ge

• gamblor956 13y ago
  This should be the top comment. As long as sexism persists in the tech industry, it's going to drive women out and keep others away.
  • kisstheblade 13y ago
    I thought Julie's comments about men "gawking" was very sexist and am offended. GitHub will be a better workplace with her gone for sure.
  • Dylan16807 13y ago
    No way in hell should it be the top comment. I can't find any victim blaming at all in a quick skim, so if it's here it's not by any means a plurality opinion. bitops is being even worse and reactionary than they claim HN to be.
    • kybernetikos 13y ago
      There was quite a lot of what I would consider to be victim blaming in the previous thread where it was less clear what the allegations were. Or at least, my impression of the thread was that there were a very high proportion of commenters saying we should reserve judgement and at the same time hypothesizing about all the ways that the woman might be at fault. While this is all true (on the information we had in that thread, it was possible that the woman was the one at fault, and it's good to reserve judgement until more information arrives), it was really weird how many people felt the need to point these things out. I do agree that this thread seems more balanced, although even in this thread people are surprisingly quick to point out that these problems are not 'sexism' (despite the fact that the situations described would have been an order of magnitude less likely to arise if she were a man).
      • tomp 13y ago
        > (despite the fact that the situations described would have been an order of magnitude less likely to arise if she were a man). How and why is this a fact? Could really none of this happen to a male employee? Crazy boss? Check. Workplace relationship? Check. "Enemies" reverting your code? Check. Management non-reactive to complaints? Check. I think a lot of this goes on regularly on many companies, an concerns many employees. In particular, what seems sexist here is trying to make this a women's problem, not an employee's problem.
  • tomp 13y ago
    It could be a top comment on reddit. Here, we (me in particular, and I think several other posters as well) prefer thoughtful discussion over emotional overreaction.
  • RivieraKid 13y ago
    ... and keep the salaries high.
  • waylandsmithers 13y ago
    And the sad thing is, I fear that other start ups read this story and now associate even more potential risk with hiring a woman.
• jd0 13y ago
  Fuck hacker news. I only come here to be mad at people.
  • chippy 13y ago
    now now trolls shouldn't announce themselves as such, unless you are doing next level trolling as counter trolling!
• derefr 13y ago
  Hackers, in my experience, have more shared experience in being naive enough socially to allow themselves to be baited into making statements which are later used against them, than in actually saying things (or even associating with others who would say things) which are intentionally malicious. We all understand fixing someone's computer and then being blamed for any problems it has from then on; or for making a software estimate and being held to it as a requirement. In short, hackers are used to being scapegoats, so the first conclusion we jump to when one of us is accused of something is that they're being scapegoated too. This can look like "victim-blaming", but it's really more-than-anything a yearning for people to keep their standards of evidence high, and to avoid jumping to conclusions. Counterarguments and counterfactuals ("what else could have happened") aren't presented as "this is obviously what happened instead", but just to decrease confidence that the evidence presented thusfar is strong enough to prove anything much. If evidence A fits alleged narrative X, but also random equally-likely stories Y or Z, then X is no longer implied directly by A.
  • jd0 13y ago
    This can look like "victim-blaming", but it's really more-than-anything a yearning for people to keep their standards of evidence high I don't buy it. The "hacker type" despite self-professing as a logical bunch falls prey to all of the logical fallacies and cognitive biases that any other opinionated group does. The evidence is already out there, this is one of many incidents following a trend of sexism in this industry that has been going on for decades. Github does not exist in a vacuum and real life social interaction doesn't use variables beyond a distant abstract analysis.
  • rsynnott 13y ago
    > This can look like "victim-blaming", but it's really more-than-anything a yearning for people to keep their standards of evidence high, and to avoid jumping to conclusions. That really depends, now, doesn't it, on what the subject is? :) HackerNews seems, in general, to have a very low standard of evidence for things like "the NSA is doing something evil", and tends to be quite credulous on such things. It seems to have a very, very, _very_ high standard of evidence for "bigotry exists" though.
• eruditely 13y ago
  No examples so you can garner maximum support? What is this umbrella term 'victim blaming', anyways? Is there in this black and white view that you subscribe to no room for dual-guilt in setting up problems/crimes? Can't you understand that at many times both parties are at fault for escalation? This is one actually useful thing that police manage to understand and accomplish, they understand that "Victims" often play a role. This is why screaming "self-defense" at every violence case does not work. You will probably jump to rape as your first defense of victim blaming and examples, because that is the one to garner most backing off quickly. To see what you're pissed off at, let's survey your comment history. I don't see anything particular to this case except getting pissed off, so i'll take your comment towards the website, calm. Hmm, A website towards meditation. Seems peaceful . Let's not forget the website that was made to be only nice to people and to send encouragement only very recently. Seems like this community is trying. But one occasion with 2 sides to a story, and it's all said and done it your book? See you later.
• balozi 13y ago
  The only victims here were the other poor employees that had put up with this nonsense from this crazy cast of characters.
  • enupten 13y ago
    That explains the hoola-hooping incident I suppose.
• pbateman 13y ago
  I'm sick of it. Goodbye, Hacker News. I know this is going to come across as unfriendly, but I'm always bemused when people make these little plays for attention. It's a massive site, you're not one of the notable commenters, if HN isn't delivering value why not just stop reading it quietly rather than announcing it to the world?
  • jd0 13y ago
    Because human beings have a desire to express opinion and emotion? Your attitude is the same as a lot of the socially inept that roam the valley and this message board. If This Isn't The Most Efficient Logical Course Of Action (according my perspective) Then It Bemuses Me.
    • lutusp 13y ago
      > Because human beings have a desire to express opinion and emotion? Well, half of them, anyway.
      • LockeWatts 13y ago
        Which half?
        • lutusp 13y ago
          Without trying to start a debate, it's well-established that women talk about personal things more readily than men do, and at greater length, and express emotion more readily than men do. This real difference between men and women is often described as a character flaw in men by women, and in women by men (if that wasn't too hard to unravel).
          • kansface 13y ago
            Are you claiming this is universal across societies?
    • pbateman 13y ago
• argonaut 13y ago
  Are we reading the same thread? I'm seeing a fairly balanced mix of perspectives. I think we tend to overestimate the level of idiocy because it resonates much more strongly (in a negative way) in our heads.
• interstitial 13y ago
  You suffer from egotistical self-righteousness. Someday, perhaps, you will no longer need to assuage your ego with delusional palliatives of moral superiority. Today a child died after a long and painful battle with cancer. Another died suddenly in a car crash after a heated argument, leaving loved ones in agony and self-doubt. Are you sure this is your battle? Perhaps you are only sick of the burden of your own unexamined piety and belief the universe must obey your whims.
  • jd0 13y ago
    Today a child died after a long and painful battle with cancer. lol wtf Perhaps you are only sick of the burden of your own unexamined piety and belief the universe must obey your whims. we're getting existential now
  • babby 13y ago
    Aggravated bleeding heart observed. >suffer >irrelevant anecdotes to contrast against OP's "battle" Why do you think he cares about children dying? Is it really so hard to grasp the notion that we are emotionally compelled by things relevant to our own lives at any given time? This may be his battle, or maybe it's not a battle at all. Maybe you should stop this hyperbolic nonsense, because you're the one making it a battle. >suffer cringe
• oh_sigh 13y ago
  Good riddance.
• krexit 13y ago
  Bye!