5 ms·

Some geeky types will be tempted, upon founding a startup, to thus not have ANY women in significant roles in the company, and to keep it as guys-only as possib

Some geeky types will be tempted, upon founding a startup, to thus not have ANY women in significant roles in the company, and to keep it as guys-only as possible; outsourcing as needed and doing the other legal legwork as required to stay under the headcount (is it >50 people?) to avoid the EEOC.

jkrems 13y ago
I saw similar things happen with male employees. A spouse of a manager/founder (well, anyone really) having power without any official position is a disaster waiting to happen. The situation I experienced was with an all-male team. The result is people leaving, so having a small team really doesn't fix anything. Quite the opposite.
- candeira 13y ago
  I've been in this position as a co-founder, having to deal with a contractor who was also the spouse of a co-founder, and who managed to drive everybody crazy, including other contractors and employees, other co-founders, and their own spouse.
rdl 13y ago
I'd rather just have a "zero fuckwits rule" in hiring. It sounds like Github breached that rule, leading to this problem. You could possibly avoid all sexual harassment by having only men in the workplace, but if they were still fuckwits and assholes, you'd have other employment problems.
- unfunco 13y ago
  Spotting a fuckwit during a best-behaviour interview is difficult.
  - jsmthrowaway 13y ago
    I've found Twitter timelines to be useful in this regard.
  - chii 13y ago
    that's why you have a probation period, normally 3 months, but longer if necessary.
    - UK-AL 13y ago
      Useless in the this case, because the fuckwits sounded like the founders/founders wife/
      - danielweber 13y ago
        Yeah, I've been in a place where one founder's wife was the ex-gf of a second founder, and for no good reason whatsoever she was brought in to do the books, and kept on talking out loud about what the second founder was like in bed. Some people use companies to work out their interpersonal problems.
gametheoretic 13y ago
I'll be more than tempted. To be 100% honest, I have that thought every single time I read any article or blog post about sexism in tech. If programmers with a Y-chromosome are exponentially less likely to either sue us or get us labelled sexist jerks in the press, then that's who we're hiring.
- jd0 13y ago
  To use a metaphor you might understand I think you're programming around the bug instead of debugging. Maybe, shocking as it is, women are reacting to real injustices in these cases that you read about in "any article or blog post about sexism in tech". If your immediate reaction to someone being called out for sexism is to distance yourself from women, have you ever considered that perhaps your attitude is sexist? You're assuming in all scenarios that the man is right and being attacked unfairly, disregarding evidence.
  - gametheoretic 13y ago
    That's nice. I don't feel like you're talking to me; I feel like you're talking to a person in your head.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
- devnonymous 13y ago
  "To be 100% honest, I have that thought every single time I read any article or newspaper report about a shootout or burglary in the community. If people with a white bloodline are statistically less likely to either rob us or get us labelled racists jerks in the press, than that's who we're hirig." -- do you now see what's wrong with this kind of thinking ?
  - gametheoretic 13y ago
    No, because I read 1000x times more of the one than of the other, and I personally see and experience one and not the other. That you'd even bring up the comparison makes me think you're not taking this seriously, as a reality to deal with and not an internet crusade. Read the statement again. I'm not laying blame on any party. I am only taking the position that whatever the cause is, I don't know any better than anyone else how to avoid it.
jd0 13y ago
This is the sort of fucked up attitude that's turning the public increasingly against the tech industry. The attitude seems to be "we can do anything that we want, because we're smart and we know the loopholes"
- ebfe 13y ago
  If you really believe that the public considers watching women hula-hoop or a rug that says "meritocracy" to be sexual harassment, please give some thought to the possibility that you might be living in a bubble.
hudibras 13y ago
Then some geeky types will find them recruiting from far less than 50% of the population. Good luck with that, guys.
- babby 13y ago
  You're implying 50% of the startup population is female. That is obviously laughable and thus you should stop spreading erroneous statements. Making HN a better place, thanks for your time!

jkrems 13y ago

I saw similar things happen with male employees. A spouse of a manager/founder (well, anyone really) having power without any official position is a disaster waiting to happen. The situation I experienced was with an all-male team. The result is people leaving, so having a small team really doesn't fix anything. Quite the opposite.

candeira 13y ago
I've been in this position as a co-founder, having to deal with a contractor who was also the spouse of a co-founder, and who managed to drive everybody crazy, including other contractors and employees, other co-founders, and their own spouse.

rdl 13y ago

I'd rather just have a "zero fuckwits rule" in hiring. It sounds like Github breached that rule, leading to this problem. You could possibly avoid all sexual harassment by having only men in the workplace, but if they were still fuckwits and assholes, you'd have other employment problems.

unfunco 13y ago
Spotting a fuckwit during a best-behaviour interview is difficult.
- jsmthrowaway 13y ago
  I've found Twitter timelines to be useful in this regard.
- chii 13y ago
  that's why you have a probation period, normally 3 months, but longer if necessary.
  - UK-AL 13y ago
    Useless in the this case, because the fuckwits sounded like the founders/founders wife/
    - danielweber 13y ago
      Yeah, I've been in a place where one founder's wife was the ex-gf of a second founder, and for no good reason whatsoever she was brought in to do the books, and kept on talking out loud about what the second founder was like in bed. Some people use companies to work out their interpersonal problems.

gametheoretic 13y ago

I'll be more than tempted. To be 100% honest, I have that thought every single time I read any article or blog post about sexism in tech. If programmers with a Y-chromosome are exponentially less likely to either sue us or get us labelled sexist jerks in the press, then that's who we're hiring.

jd0 13y ago
To use a metaphor you might understand I think you're programming around the bug instead of debugging. Maybe, shocking as it is, women are reacting to real injustices in these cases that you read about in "any article or blog post about sexism in tech". If your immediate reaction to someone being called out for sexism is to distance yourself from women, have you ever considered that perhaps your attitude is sexist? You're assuming in all scenarios that the man is right and being attacked unfairly, disregarding evidence.
- gametheoretic 13y ago
  That's nice. I don't feel like you're talking to me; I feel like you're talking to a person in your head.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
devnonymous 13y ago
"To be 100% honest, I have that thought every single time I read any article or newspaper report about a shootout or burglary in the community. If people with a white bloodline are statistically less likely to either rob us or get us labelled racists jerks in the press, than that's who we're hirig." -- do you now see what's wrong with this kind of thinking ?
- gametheoretic 13y ago
  No, because I read 1000x times more of the one than of the other, and I personally see and experience one and not the other. That you'd even bring up the comparison makes me think you're not taking this seriously, as a reality to deal with and not an internet crusade. Read the statement again. I'm not laying blame on any party. I am only taking the position that whatever the cause is, I don't know any better than anyone else how to avoid it.

jd0 13y ago

This is the sort of fucked up attitude that's turning the public increasingly against the tech industry. The attitude seems to be "we can do anything that we want, because we're smart and we know the loopholes"

ebfe 13y ago
If you really believe that the public considers watching women hula-hoop or a rug that says "meritocracy" to be sexual harassment, please give some thought to the possibility that you might be living in a bubble.

hudibras 13y ago

Then some geeky types will find them recruiting from far less than 50% of the population. Good luck with that, guys.

babby 13y ago
You're implying 50% of the startup population is female. That is obviously laughable and thus you should stop spreading erroneous statements. Making HN a better place, thanks for your time!