7 ms·

Kind of bizarre seeing someone else's value system which is completely alien to my own. If I was leaving my wife and kids with mortgage and car loan debt, I wou

by lnanek2 13y ago

Kind of bizarre seeing someone else's value system which is completely alien to my own. If I was leaving my wife and kids with mortgage and car loan debt, I wouldn't spend $10-20k on a graveyard plot, that's for sure. I don't think I would in any case, I'd just get cremated or whatever the cheapest option is.

futurist 13y ago
Right. I think this is what bothers me about this list. It's material driven. There's a saying that goes (paraphrasing) "don't wish for better circumstances, wish to be a better person." For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Mark 8:36 KJV. Jonathan, you and your family must look to the Lord Jesus Christ. He is your judge. Through Him all things are possible.
- jeffehobbs 13y ago
  Give me a break. Think about what you are saying and how and to who you are saying it.
  - futurist 13y ago
    I did. How about you do the same?
- talmir 13y ago
  Yep, lets just jump on the god-phone and call god to get him to help him out in this instance. Just like he helps starving or diseased people throughout the world every day. Or my uncle, who died of cancer recently. The list seems material because he is worried about his family. They need to eat and they need a roof over their head. We are all a bit material. I notice you are using hacker news which suggests you must have some kind of an income and access to technology. He is dying. He is worried. Would you not feel the same? How about, instead of quoting bible bullshit to help you not so silently judge a man with cancer, you shut the heck up and donate a tiny bit to the man so he can live the rest of his days with that much less worry? Jonathan : Find solace where you can. My heart goes out to you.
- darthclue 13y ago
  I can't say where I stand spiritually but everyone who suggests I should simply rely on God obviously believes that they are not responsible for any of their own actions. And if you truly believe that is materially driven then you haven't bothered reading and understanding what is written. Don't try to talk to me about God until you've taken the time to actually read and understand who it is you're talking to and what it is you're saying.
izolate 13y ago
I feel for the guy, I wouldn't wish his position on anybody. But reading that list, I can't help but think he needs to learn how to sacrifice a bit. I get that he wants to take care of his finances and spend time with his family. But everything that he listed can be done for 1/5th of the cost. Get cremated, travel by bus, put everybody up in a 1 bed motel room, etc.
- aestra 13y ago
  I think he is just comfortable with his life and can't see out of his own worldview. He believes these things are "bare necessities." This is why I have trouble relating to the middle and upper class and especially this guy. I grew up poor. Really poor. My friends in the neighborhood had to live without electricity some times because they got shut off because their parents couldn't pay the bill. I thought we were pretty well off because we could afford a car and we could afford to keep the lights on. I thought of a car (any car) as a big luxury item when I was a kid because so many families around me couldn't afford one. I realize now we were also very poor, just not as poor as some of my peers. I believe because of that experience I have a much different outlook on what is actually needed and what one can live like happily if you get out of a certain mindset. When I see people begging for "donations" to pay off their 19,000 car loan, I am very put off. He could sell his van and buy an older (but still nice) van and save thousands. Ever single financial blog will tell you the first thing you do to save money is downgrade your car. Of course instead of going without or making sacrifices he needs to ask other people for money. He already has a lot more than most of the kids I grew up with will ever have and yet none of us felt entitled enough to beg. I drove a beat up car that was 13 when I retired it for years when I could technically afford a newer one. Why? I'd rather spend that money on life experiences, weekend trips, and visiting friends and family. When I bought a new(er) car (1 year old with 30,000 miles) I was able to pay cash for it freeing me of having a car payment. It is insane that "car payment" is part of our lexicon, especially for someone claiming to have money problems. You can do a real lot without a car payment. Look up any research on happiness. That van doesn't make you happy, in fact it does the opposite. What makes us happy is not the items in our life but the life experiences we have. When you are sacrificing life experiences for a van you're doing it wrong. He clearly owns a van he can't afford. As I said before, nobody needs to spend even close to 10K on a funeral. That's a big luxury item. I currently have two hard working friends with two children who are struggling to make ends meet and making actual real sacrifices (like Internet). Their kids will never have half of what this guy "needs." I remember going on a trip where we stayed in a cabin at a campsite because it was cheaper, and we packed a cooler full of food for the duration of the trip so we didn't have to spend money on eating out. This trip was a good time for very cheap. They also have all included bus tours/trips which are cheap, I went on a couple of them as a kid too. Funny thing is my parents are no longer poor. My mom worked a civil service job so she was able to eventually move up to a better paying job and get a pension at retirement. She is now retired. I think the mortgage is about reasonable though, that doesn't seem too excessive. Expensive but not overly so. I do feel sad he is dying at 35 and his family has to live without him. However, his sense of entitlement puts me off completely. I thought this was going to be an interesting article not some self entitled guy begging for money.
aestra 13y ago
Thank you for posting this. It is sad that we all think we are entitled to a piece of the earth for eternity. Not only is it a huge waste of money but a huge waste of land. If everyone who ever lived had a marked grave reserved for them forever, there would be no land left for the people who are living right now. It is the ultimate sense of entitlement. By the way caskets cost like 5 grand or something too. I was there when we were picking one out for my grandma I think that was the price of hers and it was on the cheaper side. My grandma pre bought her plot, but it still cost 10 grand to do a funeral that really wasn't elaborate or anything, mainly the basic stuff. If it were up to just me, things would have been different.
- pbhjpbhj 13y ago
  >we all think we are entitled to a piece of the earth for eternity // I live next to a graveyard - the stones often are so decayed after 100 years as to be unreadable. Graves get reused eventually or the graveyard gets reused as a whole (at least that's how things have happened in my country thusfar). Funny half the people ITT seem to be saying we've got loads of resources. Also FWIW a graveyard isn't wasted space - it's basically a park with memorial stones. People use it to walk, jog; it's a good space for wildlife, trees prosper.
- Double_Cast 13y ago
  I feel that wanting to be preserved in a casket & grave is sort of morbid anyway. I'd rather decompose under a tree or something, in keeping with the "circle of life" meme.
wainstead 13y ago
I am having my body donated to science. My wife had her father's body donated to science. It cost $200, and several months later she got an urn of her father's ashes by mail. We then rented a boat and spread his ashes in his favorite harbor. It turned out to be a solemn and yet mildly joyful occasion as each person talked about fond memories and spread some ashes in the water. I want students to cut my corpse up and learn things. I want my body to contribute to society for a little while longer after I am gone.
kabdib 13y ago
I may come across as a callous bastard, but this occurred to me as well. Cheap cremation or donating my body to a medical school (there's one at the U across the lake). I'd much rather not give money to some funeral parlour shyster -- one of my uncles ran one of those things, and while I like to think he was one of the honest ones, that industry is all about taking advantage of vulnerable people, worse than being in used car / camel / spacecraft sales.
syntheticnature 13y ago
That wife and kids might just want to have a viewing. That'll cost money. Cremation isn't cheap, either: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7393011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7393011 $20k actually sounds low to me, last time I looked into a burial situation.
- darthclue 13y ago
  My family, including my wife, children, mother, grandmother, and extended family would benefit from a public viewing. Cremation is something we've considered but would like to avoid but we have made a final decision on which way we will go because we don't have the finances in place to make that decision yet. And yes, $20k is about as cheap as I could manage to get it with the research I did given that this would be an out-of-state burial requiring my body be transported across state lines. I've done my research and worked to keep costs as low as possible because that's just part of me trying to give everyone what they want and deserve without creating additional burden on anyone if I can. This isn't an easy decision and my wife are still discussing it because it isn't easy. None of this has been easy.
nate_meurer 13y ago
I agree, but it made me feel better (poor wording?) to see Jonathan's blog post on 01/19/2014 (the earliest post to be tagged "cancer"): I have told my children that if I should lose this fight that there will not be a funeral, there will be a party, a celebration with music and cake and ice cream and friends and family and dancing and laughing and singing.
- darthclue 13y ago
  This was one of the most difficult conversations I had to have. It came about because of my 6 year old who asked if she could go to my funeral. No 6 year old should ask that question and no parent should have to answer it. She has been the strongest through this which is making it even harder because she fully understands what is going on and is asking tougher and tougher questions for which I do not have any good or easy answers. I've cried more trying to come up with the answers than I have in my first 34 years of life.
darthclue 13y ago
Allow me to clarify my value system for you then. You'll note that the graveyard plot is the 3rd item on the list. If we are unable to fund it, I am prepared for cremation options. This is a 'bucket list', it is more like a wish list than anything else and this is why items are listed in 'priority' order. This is about providing for the financial needs of my wife and kids. Giving them a home and transportation are the most import aspects of making the process of my death easier. There are so many conversations that have to take place between two people who love each other and most of those will always remain private. Telling my wife where I want to be buried and discussing what we need to do before we even begin planning for this was just another of many difficult conversations I've had to have over the last 2 months. I have to make difficult decisions that will impact everyone around me. When you find yourself facing death, I hope that your commitment and resolution to cremation remains as it is today.

by lnanek2 13y ago

futurist 13y ago

Right. I think this is what bothers me about this list. It's material driven. There's a saying that goes (paraphrasing) "don't wish for better circumstances, wish to be a better person." For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Mark 8:36 KJV. Jonathan, you and your family must look to the Lord Jesus Christ. He is your judge. Through Him all things are possible.

jeffehobbs 13y ago
Give me a break. Think about what you are saying and how and to who you are saying it.
- futurist 13y ago
  I did. How about you do the same?
talmir 13y ago
Yep, lets just jump on the god-phone and call god to get him to help him out in this instance. Just like he helps starving or diseased people throughout the world every day. Or my uncle, who died of cancer recently. The list seems material because he is worried about his family. They need to eat and they need a roof over their head. We are all a bit material. I notice you are using hacker news which suggests you must have some kind of an income and access to technology. He is dying. He is worried. Would you not feel the same? How about, instead of quoting bible bullshit to help you not so silently judge a man with cancer, you shut the heck up and donate a tiny bit to the man so he can live the rest of his days with that much less worry? Jonathan : Find solace where you can. My heart goes out to you.
darthclue 13y ago
I can't say where I stand spiritually but everyone who suggests I should simply rely on God obviously believes that they are not responsible for any of their own actions. And if you truly believe that is materially driven then you haven't bothered reading and understanding what is written. Don't try to talk to me about God until you've taken the time to actually read and understand who it is you're talking to and what it is you're saying.

izolate 13y ago

I feel for the guy, I wouldn't wish his position on anybody. But reading that list, I can't help but think he needs to learn how to sacrifice a bit. I get that he wants to take care of his finances and spend time with his family. But everything that he listed can be done for 1/5th of the cost. Get cremated, travel by bus, put everybody up in a 1 bed motel room, etc.

aestra 13y ago
I think he is just comfortable with his life and can't see out of his own worldview. He believes these things are "bare necessities." This is why I have trouble relating to the middle and upper class and especially this guy. I grew up poor. Really poor. My friends in the neighborhood had to live without electricity some times because they got shut off because their parents couldn't pay the bill. I thought we were pretty well off because we could afford a car and we could afford to keep the lights on. I thought of a car (any car) as a big luxury item when I was a kid because so many families around me couldn't afford one. I realize now we were also very poor, just not as poor as some of my peers. I believe because of that experience I have a much different outlook on what is actually needed and what one can live like happily if you get out of a certain mindset. When I see people begging for "donations" to pay off their 19,000 car loan, I am very put off. He could sell his van and buy an older (but still nice) van and save thousands. Ever single financial blog will tell you the first thing you do to save money is downgrade your car. Of course instead of going without or making sacrifices he needs to ask other people for money. He already has a lot more than most of the kids I grew up with will ever have and yet none of us felt entitled enough to beg. I drove a beat up car that was 13 when I retired it for years when I could technically afford a newer one. Why? I'd rather spend that money on life experiences, weekend trips, and visiting friends and family. When I bought a new(er) car (1 year old with 30,000 miles) I was able to pay cash for it freeing me of having a car payment. It is insane that "car payment" is part of our lexicon, especially for someone claiming to have money problems. You can do a real lot without a car payment. Look up any research on happiness. That van doesn't make you happy, in fact it does the opposite. What makes us happy is not the items in our life but the life experiences we have. When you are sacrificing life experiences for a van you're doing it wrong. He clearly owns a van he can't afford. As I said before, nobody needs to spend even close to 10K on a funeral. That's a big luxury item. I currently have two hard working friends with two children who are struggling to make ends meet and making actual real sacrifices (like Internet). Their kids will never have half of what this guy "needs." I remember going on a trip where we stayed in a cabin at a campsite because it was cheaper, and we packed a cooler full of food for the duration of the trip so we didn't have to spend money on eating out. This trip was a good time for very cheap. They also have all included bus tours/trips which are cheap, I went on a couple of them as a kid too. Funny thing is my parents are no longer poor. My mom worked a civil service job so she was able to eventually move up to a better paying job and get a pension at retirement. She is now retired. I think the mortgage is about reasonable though, that doesn't seem too excessive. Expensive but not overly so. I do feel sad he is dying at 35 and his family has to live without him. However, his sense of entitlement puts me off completely. I thought this was going to be an interesting article not some self entitled guy begging for money.

aestra 13y ago

Thank you for posting this. It is sad that we all think we are entitled to a piece of the earth for eternity. Not only is it a huge waste of money but a huge waste of land. If everyone who ever lived had a marked grave reserved for them forever, there would be no land left for the people who are living right now. It is the ultimate sense of entitlement. By the way caskets cost like 5 grand or something too. I was there when we were picking one out for my grandma I think that was the price of hers and it was on the cheaper side. My grandma pre bought her plot, but it still cost 10 grand to do a funeral that really wasn't elaborate or anything, mainly the basic stuff. If it were up to just me, things would have been different.

pbhjpbhj 13y ago
>we all think we are entitled to a piece of the earth for eternity // I live next to a graveyard - the stones often are so decayed after 100 years as to be unreadable. Graves get reused eventually or the graveyard gets reused as a whole (at least that's how things have happened in my country thusfar). Funny half the people ITT seem to be saying we've got loads of resources. Also FWIW a graveyard isn't wasted space - it's basically a park with memorial stones. People use it to walk, jog; it's a good space for wildlife, trees prosper.
Double_Cast 13y ago
I feel that wanting to be preserved in a casket & grave is sort of morbid anyway. I'd rather decompose under a tree or something, in keeping with the "circle of life" meme.

wainstead 13y ago

I am having my body donated to science. My wife had her father's body donated to science. It cost $200, and several months later she got an urn of her father's ashes by mail. We then rented a boat and spread his ashes in his favorite harbor. It turned out to be a solemn and yet mildly joyful occasion as each person talked about fond memories and spread some ashes in the water. I want students to cut my corpse up and learn things. I want my body to contribute to society for a little while longer after I am gone.

kabdib 13y ago

I may come across as a callous bastard, but this occurred to me as well. Cheap cremation or donating my body to a medical school (there's one at the U across the lake). I'd much rather not give money to some funeral parlour shyster -- one of my uncles ran one of those things, and while I like to think he was one of the honest ones, that industry is all about taking advantage of vulnerable people, worse than being in used car / camel / spacecraft sales.

syntheticnature 13y ago

That wife and kids might just want to have a viewing. That'll cost money. Cremation isn't cheap, either: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7393011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7393011 $20k actually sounds low to me, last time I looked into a burial situation.

darthclue 13y ago
My family, including my wife, children, mother, grandmother, and extended family would benefit from a public viewing. Cremation is something we've considered but would like to avoid but we have made a final decision on which way we will go because we don't have the finances in place to make that decision yet. And yes, $20k is about as cheap as I could manage to get it with the research I did given that this would be an out-of-state burial requiring my body be transported across state lines. I've done my research and worked to keep costs as low as possible because that's just part of me trying to give everyone what they want and deserve without creating additional burden on anyone if I can. This isn't an easy decision and my wife are still discussing it because it isn't easy. None of this has been easy.

nate_meurer 13y ago

I agree, but it made me feel better (poor wording?) to see Jonathan's blog post on 01/19/2014 (the earliest post to be tagged "cancer"): I have told my children that if I should lose this fight that there will not be a funeral, there will be a party, a celebration with music and cake and ice cream and friends and family and dancing and laughing and singing.

darthclue 13y ago
This was one of the most difficult conversations I had to have. It came about because of my 6 year old who asked if she could go to my funeral. No 6 year old should ask that question and no parent should have to answer it. She has been the strongest through this which is making it even harder because she fully understands what is going on and is asking tougher and tougher questions for which I do not have any good or easy answers. I've cried more trying to come up with the answers than I have in my first 34 years of life.

darthclue 13y ago

Allow me to clarify my value system for you then. You'll note that the graveyard plot is the 3rd item on the list. If we are unable to fund it, I am prepared for cremation options. This is a 'bucket list', it is more like a wish list than anything else and this is why items are listed in 'priority' order. This is about providing for the financial needs of my wife and kids. Giving them a home and transportation are the most import aspects of making the process of my death easier. There are so many conversations that have to take place between two people who love each other and most of those will always remain private. Telling my wife where I want to be buried and discussing what we need to do before we even begin planning for this was just another of many difficult conversations I've had to have over the last 2 months. I have to make difficult decisions that will impact everyone around me. When you find yourself facing death, I hope that your commitment and resolution to cremation remains as it is today.