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This seems to be a favorite topic here. It gets discussed in a way that I find strange, because it seems to me that most participants are being dishonest. At le
by netcan 13y ago
This seems to be a favorite topic here. It gets discussed in a way that I find strange, because it seems to me that most participants are being dishonest. At least I think this is true in many cases.
On the side that decides on and pays for the offices, open floor plans are cheaper and more convenient. They take less space per person. You can moved stuff around and rearrange them. You don't have to decide on team sizes in advance. You don't have to allocate office quality based on seniority. Managers can get a feel for happenings just by being present. etc. Moving in does not mean a big upfront cost and it is easier to make the decision. These are price and convenience concerns. Those drive the decision most of the time. There are a whole bunch of arguments that can be used to justify the decision. knowledge flow, agility, egality, whatever. You can agree for disagree with them but they're not honestly making up a significant part of the decision so the argument is pointless.
On the other side are the people who work in the companies who mostly don't like open floorplans. It seems to me we don't like them for the same reason we don't want to live in a big dormitory. We want our own space. We want to control our environment. Same thing every 14 year old wants. We spend half our lives at work and we want a pleasant office for the same reason we want a pleasant home. More space is more pleasant. These are "quality of life reasons. This side has abstract arguments too. Quite. concentration. etc.
The whole argument is dishonest. One side wants to make life cheaper and easier for themselves. The other wants to make life more pleasant. Both are pretending to be discussing productivity, creativity and whatnot.
- meddlepal 13y agoThis is why we invented cubicles. Middle ground between cost/personal area/flexibility. The only problem with cubicles is when you get the half-height wall ones. Then literally you have almost all the same problem as open-floor while literally costing more money and reducing flexibility.
- SnacksOnAPlane 13y agoExcept cubicles feel like tools of oppression.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- yukichan 13y ago> open floor plans are cheaper and more convenient. They take less space per person. Cubicle walls aren't that expensive. You can put them around small teams. What is expensive are unproductive engineers that cost you $10,000 a month each. In comparison I bet those walls and a little bit more space are worth it.
- mattmanser 13y agoCalling everyone who needs peace and quiet to concentrate a petulant teenager doesn't win an argument. Walk into any open plan office with developers in it, they will all have headphones in. You think they want to listen to music all day? 10s of thousands of dollars in lost productivity disappearing down the drain right in front of your nose but you're too blind to see.
- kristiandupont 13y agoI'm in an open office at this moment. Nobody is wearing headphones. Everybody is working, there is a tiny bit of chatter now and then but nothing distracting. The feeling of other people working seems to affect my own productivity positively (no, the irony of me being on HN is not lost on me. I'm taking a five minute break). But then, I also like to work in cafés. In fact, when I work from home I will sometimes open www.rainycafe.com to "simulate" that feeling. As long as nobody is speaking really loud or addressing me directly, it doesn't disturb me.
- mattmanser 13y agoIt will only take one sales person to shatter that. If everyone is being quiet creative it's fine. Introduce a person constantly on the phone and it's not. The other ones, and god I hate them, are the pacing round the office while on a mobile. Only topped by pacing round the office on a mobile who's route goes behind your chair. The most distracting thing in the world to me.
- jader201 13y agoSorry, but I can top that. And this has happened to me. Multiple times (by the same offender). A manager that uses her speakerphone to call someone else. Two cubes over. Needless to say, I don't work there anymore.
- xsmasher 13y agoI think cubes are actually worse than open plan; in a cube you can't see that someone is working intently three feet away, and you don't see their death glare.
- interstitial 13y agoOne central open bathroom area, no other bathrooms -- the pixar way.
- wil421 13y agoI am pretty sure a dormitory is the exact opposite of an open floor plan, in most dorms people have their own space that they may share with someone and then common spaces that everyone shares. Contrast to open floor plan where every space is a common area.
- netcan 13y agoI was kind of imagining a military or hostel dorm like this: http://www.yosemitebug.com/images/lodging/CoedGroupHostelDormitory.jpg http://www.yosemitebug.com/images/lodging/CoedGroupHostelDor...
- ds9 13y agoIt's possible you may have misunderstood or misinterpreted posters here. There is no inconsistency in preferring a more pleasant workspace, while also pointing out to the employers that it makes software people more productive. One proposition does not make the other false or dishonest. In fact, most tech professionals are ethical people who enjoy their work and prefer to be more productive. Posters here have been hoping, I think, to point out to employers that a cost savings on workspace, walls etc. may actually cost more in productivity, turnover, inefficiency. There may be some dishonesty in management claims that open plans are beneficial for anything other than the short-term budget. Managers may have to make such decisions to produce numbers their bosses are demanding, because of the way corporations work. However, there is no apparent basis for the implication of some conflict between employee comfort and work-product benefit to the employer.
- iopq 13y agoI would so give up a part of my salary if I could: 1. Have some peace and quiet and do my job 2. After getting done with however much work I have I can leave early It would be about the same amount of work done, but I would save myself so much time. But of course companies want me to be a factory worker with people looking over my shoulder to make sure I'm actually working and forcing me to work 8 hours no matter what. This is why I am no longer a software engineer.
- atom-morgan 13y agoWhat are you doing now?
- iopq 13y agoOnline poker
- jader201 13y ago> ... forcing me to work 8 hours no matter what. This is why I am no longer a software engineer. The problem wasn't that you were a software engineer. The problem was the companies you were working for. I usually find this distinguished by whether a company is a software company or a non-software company that requires software by extension (i.e. IT/Big Co). Stop working for IT companies and go work for a software company. You'll get exactly what you are asking for -- peace and quiet, flexibility, and giving up part of your salary.
- vonmoltke 13y ago> I usually find this distinguished by whether a company is a software company or a non-software company that requires software by extension (i.e. IT/Big Co). It also happens at any company that bills government contracts, because they have to submit time cards with actual hours worked in order to get paid. You also need to keep a daily timecard.
- iopq 13y agoSure, but it's really hard to find a company that just wants me to be there for 4-5 hours and that's it as a full time job.
- madcaptenor 13y agoBut happier employees are more productive employees, so this is a false dichotomy. I wonder if it would be possible to sell management on non-open floorplans by making a convincing case that people will get enough more work done to pay for the extra costs of open offices.