6 ms·

WTF Delaware?

82 points by jliptzin 13y ago

kbar13 13y ago
it's the same way at the Rutgers web registration software. It's actually a pretty nicely done web app, but it is "unavailable" at night.
sheetjs 13y ago
The IRS EIN Application also has "hours": http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Apply-for-an-Employer-Identification-Number-(EIN)-Online http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employ... > Our new hours of operation [for the application] are Monday through Friday 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. Eastern time.
- jliptzin 13y ago
  Is there a good reason to do this? I'm actually curious
  - ChuckMcM 13y ago
    In Nevada (where I pay my corporate taxes) it was claimed that hours restrictions were mandated by law ("No part of the office can be open outside of the following hours" kind of thing) I have yet to find the statute though that says that. I agree it is a very weird thing.
  - ForHackernews 13y ago
    I guess it gives you a free maintenance window every night.
  - 8_hours_ago 13y ago
    Not that this is a good reason, but one possibility is that the backend could require human interaction. Perhaps when the form gets submitted it gets automatically sent to a printer where a person manually files it. I could see a process like that showing up on http://thedailywtf.com http://thedailywtf.com ...
  - eli 13y ago
    Define "good." It's pretty common when you've got a mainframe-type system that needs to do a bunch of batch processing and report generation. It's an excellent way to ensure that no data will be altered while the reports are running.
  - corresation 13y ago
    Aligning operating hours with when you have active staff monitoring and responding would be a reasonable assumption.
- cperciva 13y ago
  The Canada Revenue Agency's web apps are closed overnight too (albeit only for 3 hours). My understanding from talking to one of their sysadmins is that they use this time to perform backups and software upgrades because it's less error-prone than trying to do those "live".
  - Frozenlock 13y ago
    They also only support IE. (Or at least they did last year.) You can also find some documentation speaking about Netscape. http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/ntcs/scrty_tls-eng.html http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/ntcs/scrty_tls-eng.html
    - cperciva 13y ago
      I've never had any problems using using Chrome on the CRA website.
cschneid 13y ago
My only guess is a batch job that really really doesn't want data changing out from under it (and the devs were too lazy to batch up the next days changes to be submitted post-job).
- protomyth 13y ago
  I think you have it. 11:45PM sounds suspiciously like the batch job kicks off at midnight and should be done by opening of business the next day. I figure if it looks like it will go over 8AM then they have to kill it because the office staff is going to change data regardless of what IT wants.
  - toomuchtodo 13y ago
    2014: I can take credit cards for my startup in 10 minutes with Stripe, but Delaware needs 8+ hours to run a batch job to collect taxes. W. T. F.
    - protomyth 13y ago
      There is no money to "fix" and IT system that "works". Think of the children you'll be taking money from to pay for this non-essential work. Why yes, I have been in THAT meeting, just not in Delaware.
      - toomuchtodo 13y ago
        Shit like this makes my blood boil.
        protomyth 13y ago
        The true blood boiler is when the system finally collapses and IT gets hit with the "why didn't you fix this before it collapsed"-lecture from the same folks who wouldn't give you the budget to fix it in the first place. This is generally followed by the hiring of some consulting firm to propose the solution you wanted budget for at a fair multiple of the original budget. They, after all, are consultants and you are a peon.
snoldak924 13y ago
If you open it in IE, it asks to display insecure content. If you click yes, the site works. (You can click buttons). They must have linked a .js that wasn't on a https.
- phaer 13y ago
  So they just forgot their "Optimized for Internet Explorer" badge.
inheritancejon 13y ago
A 3000x3000 div with a z-index of 50000 just sits on top of everything. Delete that node and the page reacts normally at least.
reid 13y ago
Those pages lead you here, which works: https://delecorp.delaware.gov/eCorp/LoginAnnualReportsCLF https://delecorp.delaware.gov/eCorp/LoginAnnualReportsCLF Their problem is the div#forceDOMredraw which appears over everything. Good times. Remove that node and the page works again.
happyscrappy 13y ago
I can't pay my "greatly reduced taxes because I am a Delaware corp" in two seconds! Imagine if you had real problems.
- justizin 13y ago
  Right, I found this amusing: "I hope by now you’ve seen the irony here. Our government has likely forked over millions of our tax dollars (how much did Obamacare cost?) to private contractors in exchange for a site so utterly dysfunctional that it can’t even serve its purpose of collecting those very tax dollars! That’s how broken our system is." Our system is so broken that most new corporations are formed in a company with _no_ space available for your business or for you to live, only a person who sits and answers a phone for a few thousand or hundred thousand companies to prove an 'office location' or whatever wording. Delaware doesn't care because they get some taxes, what you'd really call a payoff for being a tax protector. There were pretty heinous problems with the situation at hand before OP opened his web browser.
  - Frozenlock 13y ago
    And what are those problems? That I can choose at which 'location' I incorporate for something that is immaterial?
- AnimalMuppet 13y ago
  Way to totally miss the article's point. Yes, as I write this, people are getting stabbed, shot, raped, killed by cancer, and mangled in car wrecks. And that's way worse than having to hassle with a broken web site. But there are people reading this board who can actually build functional web sites, and who are appalled that the government managed to mess up so badly. That's the point.
  - happyscrappy 13y ago
    The entitled have trouble with reading comprehension. The site was explicitly closed during certain hours, sadly probably because the data is verified by hand. He is whining that he doesn't like the hours.
dcre 13y ago
It works in IE. :(
deathanatos 13y ago
There appears to be a giant <div> on top of the entire website. It's the first non-comment child of <body>: <div id="forceDOMredraw"></div> With the CSS of: height: 3000px width: 3000px position: absolute top: 0px z-index: 50000 I do love arbitrary constants. Killing it makes the site responsive. No idea what it's there for. I'm guessing that it should be moved by JS, but the JS is failing. There's a lot of these: Uncaught TypeError: Property '$' of object [object Object] is not a function Looks like jQuery isn't getting loaded, but that's probably because of: [blocked] The page at 'https://corp.delaware.gov/paytaxes.shtml' was loaded over HTTPS, but ran insecure content from 'http://www.delaware.gov/CLF2012/js/jquery-1.5.1.min.js': this content should also be loaded over HTTPS. So, yeah, no jQuery, no script, defunct page. The problems seem to be rooted in the fact that jQuery didn't load due to it being sent over HTTP, and not HTTPS; indeed, loading the page on HTTP causes things to appear to work. Just don't use any security, and everything will work just fine. :-) This problem seems to cover the entirety of corp.delaware.gov, too. Also, the 404's the article mentions, GET https://corp.delaware.gov/undefined?1394573701086 404 (Not Found) I doubt that the URL is supposed to have "undefined", but rather that JS has stabbed yet another dev in the back.
- jliptzin 13y ago
  Of course, the giant div! I use those all the time.
  - antidaily 13y ago
    Maybe it's a loading spinner/graphic. Haha.
- joev_ 13y ago
  So... on a crappier browser this would have worked? Heh, nice to know that they never bothered to open this in any modern browsers.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- 13y ago
rd108 13y ago
Just got bit by Delaware's corporate name-check service. It only runs during EST business hours. I just want to query a database to see if a name is already taken, thank you..
_nato_ 13y ago
``This application is available daily between 8:00 am and 11:45 pm Easter Time'' Easter is on the 20th of April this year. You will miss the boat completely!
elwell 13y ago
Easter Time?
rohi81 13y ago
They don't allow late march filing on the site, some genius thought that instead of showing a pop-up or error message he just freezes the page. Same behavior noticed when we tried filing during off hours.
chimeracoder 13y ago
> “This application is available daily between 8:00 am and 11:45 pm Easter Time.” I really hope the "Easter [sic] Time" is from the original site, not a typo in the blog. The only other business I've seen do this is B&H[0], which refuses to accept online orders during the Sabbath, as well as during several other Jewish holidays (such as the first and last days of Passover). The only other business I've seen do this was my previous landlord[1]. They used to let me pay my rent online. However, their system only let you pay during "standard business hours", completely negating (for me) the convenience of an online payment - I like to take care of my bills after-hours at home, not at work, thank you very much. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%26H https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%26H [1] Unlike B&H, the management company was not run by Hasidim.
- mbesto 13y ago
  Government sites in the UK have been known to do this as well.
  - incompatible 13y ago
    Standard Life do it too, for their online account servicing. The website is still up, and you can log in, but it refuses to give you any information.
  - oliverdavenport 13y ago
    The website to book practical driving tests in the UK is one of them.
- w1ntermute 13y ago
  It's quite common in Japan for ATMs to only operate during business hours. The Japanese are world-class experts at implementing technology in ways that completely negate its core value.
  - hrktb 13y ago
    That's half of the story. The other half is the ATM is not just refusing to operate, it's behind closed doors to protect it from potential aggressions. Japanese bank are sharply close to their core values (keep the money).
aghy 13y ago
Seems like their website wasn't suppose to be served over a secure connection, just use http://corp.delaware.gov/paytaxes.shtml http://corp.delaware.gov/paytaxes.shtml and all is fine.
- incompatible 13y ago
  Just as long as there's nothing in your financial information that you consider confidential.
  - incompatible 13y ago
    Although when supplying information to an organisation which has such as poor approach to running its computer systems, you may as well assume you are making it public anyway.
jpmattia 13y ago
Is this the franchise tax that depends on the assets of the company? The one where the registered agents routinely send estimated payments invoices with assumptions far in excess of the actual taxes? Excuse my tinfoil hattery, but I have to wonder whether the accuracy of payments has something to do with the lack of website usability.
- sureshv 13y ago
  There are two ways to calculate your Delaware taxes (assuming registered as a C-Corp) - the authorized shares method and the assumed par value method. The online annual filing form makes this quite easy to calculate. Unless you are generating huge revenue then par value is the way to go.
endymi0n 13y ago
Welcome to the wonderful world of government websites - (un)fortunately you're not alone... I've had almost exactly the same experience with the German e-government "solutions" last year: http://distributed.hamann.se/blog/2013/08/31/the-horrifying-state-of-egovernment-in-germany/ http://distributed.hamann.se/blog/2013/08/31/the-horrifying-...
koliber 13y ago
I had to resort to IE to get my franchise tax paid--during their business hours, of course.
arikrak 13y ago
> “This application is available daily between 8:00 am and 11:45 pm Easter[n] Time.” We're not used to sites like Amazon being shut down during nighttime hours, but I've come across it before for government sites. For example, when I filed a corporation with the IRS, after I answered a few pages, the site said I should come back during work hours. They probably have a person at the other end who handles the forms...
runamok 13y ago
Pretty sure the root cause is the blend of http/https sources. Chrome and perhaps other browsers helpfully block the http content some of which is probably needed for the webpage to function. In Chrome you click the shield icon next to the bookmarks star in the address bar. I believe the page will then reload showing the http content which will usually fix the issue. I say "helpful" un-ironically above because the http content can compromise whatever is on the page. The OP is of course right that the developer of this page is dangerously incompetent.
pg_is_a_butt 13y ago
WTF Svbtle?! do you a system to transact automatically with state funds? and what about when it gets hacked and people ask why no one was paying attention? people sit and approve transactions. your taxes pay government employees, not robots. you're an idiot.
drawkbox 13y ago
Most of these were paid for long ago in the age of Internet Explorer, I bet it works fine in that. Hopefully gov't contracts now focus on open technologies and have to support more browsers now but all of them are broken. I use AZ and Nevada, Nevada was horrid but got a little better, still on par with insurance sites or offshored services. These types of systems would never survive if they didn't collude a useful or required service behind them. The worst services I have to deal with are paying my state taxes (EFTPS for federal isn't too bad) and insurance websites for healthcare. The healthcare.gov site, even though it launched bad, actually looks good and has some usability, relative to the insurance/tax/govt sites of the same caliber.
incision 13y ago
>"Our government has likely forked over millions of our tax dollars (how much did Obamacare cost?) to private contractors in exchange for a site so utterly dysfunctional that it can’t even serve its purpose of collecting those very tax dollars!" Oh wow, a "My tax dollars!" complaint in the middle of a "My tax dodge is inconvenient!" complaint with a little "Thanks, Obama!" thrown in for good measure.
- jliptzin 13y ago
  I wasn't aware this was a tax dodge. My attorney just told me Delaware is a good place to form an LLC because of favorable laws to Internet businesses. Considering I've been paying close to 45%+ in federal+state+city taxes I'd say this is a pretty poor dodge. Also, I am criticizing the $200 million spent on healthcare.gov, not Obamacare itself, or Obama.
- brudgers 13y ago
  You forgot to mention that Obama runs the Executive Branch of the Federal Government, that the Legislative Branch creates tax laws and passed the enabling legislation for ObamaCare and that Delaware is a state and the author's payment has nothing to do with the Federal Government at all. What should one expect from a person so out of touch with the impact of health care access on the lives of ordinary Americans that they would carry on about how improved access is a social ill? The best I can say about the article is that rather than two piles. a great deal of ignorance and foolishness has been gathered in one place.
- batoure 13y ago
  >"Oh wow, a "My tax dollars!" complaint in the middle of a "My tax dodge is inconvenient!" complaint with a little "Thanks, Obama!" thrown in for good measure." Delawares taxes are competitive but not actually the lowest. The following is a succinct explanation from a 3 second Google search on the issue. "There are two major reasons for Delaware's dominance of the corporate incorporation business. One reason is the bi-partisan political consensus in Delaware to keep the Delaware corporation statute modern and up-to-date, and to rely on Delaware's corporate law specialists for advice in how to do this. As a result, law students at every law school in the United States study the Delaware corporation statute and the decisions of Delaware courts interpreting that law." "The other major reason corporations choose to incorporate in Delaware is the quality of Delaware courts and judges. Delaware has a special court, the Court of Chancery, to rule on corporate law disputes without juries. Corporate cases do not get stuck on dockets behind the multitude of non-corporate cases. Instead, Delaware corporations can expect their legal disputes to be addressed promptly and expertly by judges who specialize in corporate law." http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/local/brandywine-to-broad/18206-why-do-so-many-corporations-choose-to-incorporate-in-delaware http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/local/brandywine-to-broad...
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
sfeng 13y ago
Incidentally, you could just do: * { pointer-events: none !important; } If you did want to make a site work like this.
abruzzi 13y ago
There are sometimes reasons for odd stuff like this. We take our tax payment system offline for a short period every day for several reasons. First, the actual system that stores the data is on ancient system where the database needs to be shut down to do backups. Most the system was written in the early 90's, and we hope to replace it soon, but it is easier said than done. (We tried once, and lost close to $1m when the vendor folded 2 years into the migration) The second reason is if you begin your transaction at 11:55 the system calculates your amount owed based on the day the transactions begins, but if the transaction doesn't complete until 12:01 then (in the case of late payments) the amount paid is inaccurate with regard to penalty and interest. Technically we're not allowed to take partial payments, so we have to do some silly things to ensure that we follow the law (we would have more control if we processed credit cards internally, but that is done by a payment processor.) So while I know nothing about Delaware, I can sympathize with building systems like this inside of government rules.
sergiotapia 13y ago
As a web developer I'm kind of impressed how broken it is. It takes significantly more effort to break something to this magnitude. I mean, you have to go out of your way to break things this badly. If you just play normally, your website cannot and WILL NOT crash and burn like this. I attribute it to malice, I just don't see it happening this badly without intent.
3rd3 13y ago
Thanks, this crashed my browser!
nick2021 13y ago
The person(s) who developed this have absolutely no clue what their doing at all.
will_brown 13y ago
www.AmeriStartup.com can take care of your Delaware corporate compliance for you if your having issues (Annual Report, Franchise Taxes,Delaware Business License, and Registered Agent Service).
larrys 13y ago
Here is a working link to pay taxes which I believe also includes franchise taxes: http://corp.delaware.gov/paytaxes.shtml http://corp.delaware.gov/paytaxes.shtml
RaphiePS 13y ago
Easy to fix on Chrome. Just click on the little shield at the top-right of the omnibar and click "load unsafe script." Yes, it's broken and they should have caught it, but it's so hyperbolic to call it an "utterly dysfunctional site." This isn't a screwup like healthcare.gov, which had major architecture problems. This is literally just the omission of the "s" in https.

82 points by jliptzin 13y ago

it's the same way at the Rutgers web registration software. It's actually a pretty nicely done web app, but it is "unavailable" at night.

sheetjs 13y ago

The IRS EIN Application also has "hours": http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Apply-for-an-Employer-Identification-Number-(EIN)-Online http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employ... > Our new hours of operation [for the application] are Monday through Friday 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. Eastern time.

jliptzin 13y ago
Is there a good reason to do this? I'm actually curious
- ChuckMcM 13y ago
  In Nevada (where I pay my corporate taxes) it was claimed that hours restrictions were mandated by law ("No part of the office can be open outside of the following hours" kind of thing) I have yet to find the statute though that says that. I agree it is a very weird thing.
- ForHackernews 13y ago
  I guess it gives you a free maintenance window every night.
- 8_hours_ago 13y ago
  Not that this is a good reason, but one possibility is that the backend could require human interaction. Perhaps when the form gets submitted it gets automatically sent to a printer where a person manually files it. I could see a process like that showing up on http://thedailywtf.com http://thedailywtf.com ...
- eli 13y ago
  Define "good." It's pretty common when you've got a mainframe-type system that needs to do a bunch of batch processing and report generation. It's an excellent way to ensure that no data will be altered while the reports are running.
- corresation 13y ago
  Aligning operating hours with when you have active staff monitoring and responding would be a reasonable assumption.
cperciva 13y ago
The Canada Revenue Agency's web apps are closed overnight too (albeit only for 3 hours). My understanding from talking to one of their sysadmins is that they use this time to perform backups and software upgrades because it's less error-prone than trying to do those "live".
- Frozenlock 13y ago
  They also only support IE. (Or at least they did last year.) You can also find some documentation speaking about Netscape. http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/ntcs/scrty_tls-eng.html http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/ntcs/scrty_tls-eng.html
  - cperciva 13y ago
    I've never had any problems using using Chrome on the CRA website.

cschneid 13y ago

My only guess is a batch job that really really doesn't want data changing out from under it (and the devs were too lazy to batch up the next days changes to be submitted post-job).

protomyth 13y ago
I think you have it. 11:45PM sounds suspiciously like the batch job kicks off at midnight and should be done by opening of business the next day. I figure if it looks like it will go over 8AM then they have to kill it because the office staff is going to change data regardless of what IT wants.
- toomuchtodo 13y ago
  2014: I can take credit cards for my startup in 10 minutes with Stripe, but Delaware needs 8+ hours to run a batch job to collect taxes. W. T. F.
  - protomyth 13y ago
    There is no money to "fix" and IT system that "works". Think of the children you'll be taking money from to pay for this non-essential work. Why yes, I have been in THAT meeting, just not in Delaware.
    - toomuchtodo 13y ago
      Shit like this makes my blood boil.
      - protomyth 13y ago
        The true blood boiler is when the system finally collapses and IT gets hit with the "why didn't you fix this before it collapsed"-lecture from the same folks who wouldn't give you the budget to fix it in the first place. This is generally followed by the hiring of some consulting firm to propose the solution you wanted budget for at a fair multiple of the original budget. They, after all, are consultants and you are a peon.

snoldak924 13y ago

If you open it in IE, it asks to display insecure content. If you click yes, the site works. (You can click buttons). They must have linked a .js that wasn't on a https.

phaer 13y ago
So they just forgot their "Optimized for Internet Explorer" badge.

inheritancejon 13y ago

A 3000x3000 div with a z-index of 50000 just sits on top of everything. Delete that node and the page reacts normally at least.

reid 13y ago

Those pages lead you here, which works: https://delecorp.delaware.gov/eCorp/LoginAnnualReportsCLF https://delecorp.delaware.gov/eCorp/LoginAnnualReportsCLF Their problem is the div#forceDOMredraw which appears over everything. Good times. Remove that node and the page works again.

happyscrappy 13y ago

I can't pay my "greatly reduced taxes because I am a Delaware corp" in two seconds! Imagine if you had real problems.

justizin 13y ago
Right, I found this amusing: "I hope by now you’ve seen the irony here. Our government has likely forked over millions of our tax dollars (how much did Obamacare cost?) to private contractors in exchange for a site so utterly dysfunctional that it can’t even serve its purpose of collecting those very tax dollars! That’s how broken our system is." Our system is so broken that most new corporations are formed in a company with _no_ space available for your business or for you to live, only a person who sits and answers a phone for a few thousand or hundred thousand companies to prove an 'office location' or whatever wording. Delaware doesn't care because they get some taxes, what you'd really call a payoff for being a tax protector. There were pretty heinous problems with the situation at hand before OP opened his web browser.
- Frozenlock 13y ago
  And what are those problems? That I can choose at which 'location' I incorporate for something that is immaterial?
AnimalMuppet 13y ago
Way to totally miss the article's point. Yes, as I write this, people are getting stabbed, shot, raped, killed by cancer, and mangled in car wrecks. And that's way worse than having to hassle with a broken web site. But there are people reading this board who can actually build functional web sites, and who are appalled that the government managed to mess up so badly. That's the point.
- happyscrappy 13y ago
  The entitled have trouble with reading comprehension. The site was explicitly closed during certain hours, sadly probably because the data is verified by hand. He is whining that he doesn't like the hours.

dcre 13y ago

It works in IE. :(

deathanatos 13y ago

There appears to be a giant <div> on top of the entire website. It's the first non-comment child of <body>: <div id="forceDOMredraw"></div> With the CSS of: height: 3000px width: 3000px position: absolute top: 0px z-index: 50000 I do love arbitrary constants. Killing it makes the site responsive. No idea what it's there for. I'm guessing that it should be moved by JS, but the JS is failing. There's a lot of these: Uncaught TypeError: Property '$' of object [object Object] is not a function Looks like jQuery isn't getting loaded, but that's probably because of: [blocked] The page at 'https://corp.delaware.gov/paytaxes.shtml' was loaded over HTTPS, but ran insecure content from 'http://www.delaware.gov/CLF2012/js/jquery-1.5.1.min.js': this content should also be loaded over HTTPS. So, yeah, no jQuery, no script, defunct page. The problems seem to be rooted in the fact that jQuery didn't load due to it being sent over HTTP, and not HTTPS; indeed, loading the page on HTTP causes things to appear to work. Just don't use any security, and everything will work just fine. :-) This problem seems to cover the entirety of corp.delaware.gov, too. Also, the 404's the article mentions, GET https://corp.delaware.gov/undefined?1394573701086 404 (Not Found) I doubt that the URL is supposed to have "undefined", but rather that JS has stabbed yet another dev in the back.

jliptzin 13y ago
Of course, the giant div! I use those all the time.
- antidaily 13y ago
  Maybe it's a loading spinner/graphic. Haha.
joev_ 13y ago
So... on a crappier browser this would have worked? Heh, nice to know that they never bothered to open this in any modern browsers.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
13y ago

rd108 13y ago

Just got bit by Delaware's corporate name-check service. It only runs during EST business hours. I just want to query a database to see if a name is already taken, thank you..

_nato_ 13y ago

``This application is available daily between 8:00 am and 11:45 pm Easter Time'' Easter is on the 20th of April this year. You will miss the boat completely!

elwell 13y ago

Easter Time?

rohi81 13y ago

They don't allow late march filing on the site, some genius thought that instead of showing a pop-up or error message he just freezes the page. Same behavior noticed when we tried filing during off hours.

chimeracoder 13y ago

> “This application is available daily between 8:00 am and 11:45 pm Easter Time.” I really hope the "Easter [sic] Time" is from the original site, not a typo in the blog. The only other business I've seen do this is B&H[0], which refuses to accept online orders during the Sabbath, as well as during several other Jewish holidays (such as the first and last days of Passover). The only other business I've seen do this was my previous landlord[1]. They used to let me pay my rent online. However, their system only let you pay during "standard business hours", completely negating (for me) the convenience of an online payment - I like to take care of my bills after-hours at home, not at work, thank you very much. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%26H https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%26H [1] Unlike B&H, the management company was not run by Hasidim.

mbesto 13y ago
Government sites in the UK have been known to do this as well.
- incompatible 13y ago
  Standard Life do it too, for their online account servicing. The website is still up, and you can log in, but it refuses to give you any information.
- oliverdavenport 13y ago
  The website to book practical driving tests in the UK is one of them.
w1ntermute 13y ago
It's quite common in Japan for ATMs to only operate during business hours. The Japanese are world-class experts at implementing technology in ways that completely negate its core value.
- hrktb 13y ago
  That's half of the story. The other half is the ATM is not just refusing to operate, it's behind closed doors to protect it from potential aggressions. Japanese bank are sharply close to their core values (keep the money).

aghy 13y ago

Seems like their website wasn't suppose to be served over a secure connection, just use http://corp.delaware.gov/paytaxes.shtml http://corp.delaware.gov/paytaxes.shtml and all is fine.

incompatible 13y ago
Just as long as there's nothing in your financial information that you consider confidential.
- incompatible 13y ago
  Although when supplying information to an organisation which has such as poor approach to running its computer systems, you may as well assume you are making it public anyway.

jpmattia 13y ago

Is this the franchise tax that depends on the assets of the company? The one where the registered agents routinely send estimated payments invoices with assumptions far in excess of the actual taxes? Excuse my tinfoil hattery, but I have to wonder whether the accuracy of payments has something to do with the lack of website usability.

sureshv 13y ago
There are two ways to calculate your Delaware taxes (assuming registered as a C-Corp) - the authorized shares method and the assumed par value method. The online annual filing form makes this quite easy to calculate. Unless you are generating huge revenue then par value is the way to go.

endymi0n 13y ago

Welcome to the wonderful world of government websites - (un)fortunately you're not alone... I've had almost exactly the same experience with the German e-government "solutions" last year: http://distributed.hamann.se/blog/2013/08/31/the-horrifying-state-of-egovernment-in-germany/ http://distributed.hamann.se/blog/2013/08/31/the-horrifying-...

koliber 13y ago

I had to resort to IE to get my franchise tax paid--during their business hours, of course.

arikrak 13y ago

> “This application is available daily between 8:00 am and 11:45 pm Easter[n] Time.” We're not used to sites like Amazon being shut down during nighttime hours, but I've come across it before for government sites. For example, when I filed a corporation with the IRS, after I answered a few pages, the site said I should come back during work hours. They probably have a person at the other end who handles the forms...

runamok 13y ago

Pretty sure the root cause is the blend of http/https sources. Chrome and perhaps other browsers helpfully block the http content some of which is probably needed for the webpage to function. In Chrome you click the shield icon next to the bookmarks star in the address bar. I believe the page will then reload showing the http content which will usually fix the issue. I say "helpful" un-ironically above because the http content can compromise whatever is on the page. The OP is of course right that the developer of this page is dangerously incompetent.

pg_is_a_butt 13y ago

WTF Svbtle?! do you a system to transact automatically with state funds? and what about when it gets hacked and people ask why no one was paying attention? people sit and approve transactions. your taxes pay government employees, not robots. you're an idiot.

drawkbox 13y ago

Most of these were paid for long ago in the age of Internet Explorer, I bet it works fine in that. Hopefully gov't contracts now focus on open technologies and have to support more browsers now but all of them are broken. I use AZ and Nevada, Nevada was horrid but got a little better, still on par with insurance sites or offshored services. These types of systems would never survive if they didn't collude a useful or required service behind them. The worst services I have to deal with are paying my state taxes (EFTPS for federal isn't too bad) and insurance websites for healthcare. The healthcare.gov site, even though it launched bad, actually looks good and has some usability, relative to the insurance/tax/govt sites of the same caliber.

incision 13y ago

>"Our government has likely forked over millions of our tax dollars (how much did Obamacare cost?) to private contractors in exchange for a site so utterly dysfunctional that it can’t even serve its purpose of collecting those very tax dollars!" Oh wow, a "My tax dollars!" complaint in the middle of a "My tax dodge is inconvenient!" complaint with a little "Thanks, Obama!" thrown in for good measure.

jliptzin 13y ago
I wasn't aware this was a tax dodge. My attorney just told me Delaware is a good place to form an LLC because of favorable laws to Internet businesses. Considering I've been paying close to 45%+ in federal+state+city taxes I'd say this is a pretty poor dodge. Also, I am criticizing the $200 million spent on healthcare.gov, not Obamacare itself, or Obama.
brudgers 13y ago
You forgot to mention that Obama runs the Executive Branch of the Federal Government, that the Legislative Branch creates tax laws and passed the enabling legislation for ObamaCare and that Delaware is a state and the author's payment has nothing to do with the Federal Government at all. What should one expect from a person so out of touch with the impact of health care access on the lives of ordinary Americans that they would carry on about how improved access is a social ill? The best I can say about the article is that rather than two piles. a great deal of ignorance and foolishness has been gathered in one place.
batoure 13y ago
>"Oh wow, a "My tax dollars!" complaint in the middle of a "My tax dodge is inconvenient!" complaint with a little "Thanks, Obama!" thrown in for good measure." Delawares taxes are competitive but not actually the lowest. The following is a succinct explanation from a 3 second Google search on the issue. "There are two major reasons for Delaware's dominance of the corporate incorporation business. One reason is the bi-partisan political consensus in Delaware to keep the Delaware corporation statute modern and up-to-date, and to rely on Delaware's corporate law specialists for advice in how to do this. As a result, law students at every law school in the United States study the Delaware corporation statute and the decisions of Delaware courts interpreting that law." "The other major reason corporations choose to incorporate in Delaware is the quality of Delaware courts and judges. Delaware has a special court, the Court of Chancery, to rule on corporate law disputes without juries. Corporate cases do not get stuck on dockets behind the multitude of non-corporate cases. Instead, Delaware corporations can expect their legal disputes to be addressed promptly and expertly by judges who specialize in corporate law." http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/local/brandywine-to-broad/18206-why-do-so-many-corporations-choose-to-incorporate-in-delaware http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/local/brandywine-to-broad...

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

sfeng 13y ago

Incidentally, you could just do: * { pointer-events: none !important; } If you did want to make a site work like this.

abruzzi 13y ago

There are sometimes reasons for odd stuff like this. We take our tax payment system offline for a short period every day for several reasons. First, the actual system that stores the data is on ancient system where the database needs to be shut down to do backups. Most the system was written in the early 90's, and we hope to replace it soon, but it is easier said than done. (We tried once, and lost close to $1m when the vendor folded 2 years into the migration) The second reason is if you begin your transaction at 11:55 the system calculates your amount owed based on the day the transactions begins, but if the transaction doesn't complete until 12:01 then (in the case of late payments) the amount paid is inaccurate with regard to penalty and interest. Technically we're not allowed to take partial payments, so we have to do some silly things to ensure that we follow the law (we would have more control if we processed credit cards internally, but that is done by a payment processor.) So while I know nothing about Delaware, I can sympathize with building systems like this inside of government rules.

sergiotapia 13y ago

As a web developer I'm kind of impressed how broken it is. It takes significantly more effort to break something to this magnitude. I mean, you have to go out of your way to break things this badly. If you just play normally, your website cannot and WILL NOT crash and burn like this. I attribute it to malice, I just don't see it happening this badly without intent.

3rd3 13y ago

Thanks, this crashed my browser!

nick2021 13y ago

The person(s) who developed this have absolutely no clue what their doing at all.

will_brown 13y ago

www.AmeriStartup.com can take care of your Delaware corporate compliance for you if your having issues (Annual Report, Franchise Taxes,Delaware Business License, and Registered Agent Service).

larrys 13y ago

Here is a working link to pay taxes which I believe also includes franchise taxes: http://corp.delaware.gov/paytaxes.shtml http://corp.delaware.gov/paytaxes.shtml

RaphiePS 13y ago

Easy to fix on Chrome. Just click on the little shield at the top-right of the omnibar and click "load unsafe script." Yes, it's broken and they should have caught it, but it's so hyperbolic to call it an "utterly dysfunctional site." This isn't a screwup like healthcare.gov, which had major architecture problems. This is literally just the omission of the "s" in https.