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I'm almost 57 and still write real code that people use and employers make money from. The trick is to continuously learn new stuff. My whole career has always

I'm almost 57 and still write real code that people use and employers make money from. The trick is to continuously learn new stuff. My whole career has always been spent at the leading edge of whatever was most important at the time. Sure, people sometimes don't want to interview you because they assume you are old and pointless, but that's usually when they don't even read your resume, blog, linked in or whatever you have. There are people who think that way, and there are people who recognize ability and experience matter. The trick is finding the latter while trying to avoid the former. Some people don't learn anything new and become obsolete, or become management, or even have to start over away from programming. It's not easy to stay out front but you are the only one who can do it.

mkaziz 13y ago
How do you usually determine what's important at a given time? I feel like I usually find out when it's too late to be at the cutting edge.
- MartinCron 13y ago
  I personally like to be aware of the cutting edge, but not bother investing time and effort until after the real lunatic fringe has proven or disproven its worth. It's OK to be late to a party, as long as you're fashionably late.
- atmosx 13y ago
  That's easy: See how many things are implemented in JavaScript? How many times JS-related projects (terminals, vm's, DSLs, monitoring projects, etc) hit the news on hackernews? What kind of companies are using JS frameworks? I'd say JS is by far the hottest language around and I'm a ruby programmer not JS programmer (although, I'm starting next month with JS). Then depends I guess: * if you're a web dev, JS/RoR/SASS/HTML5 with an eye on Rust and Go. Python has interesting frameworks also for web-dev. * If you're into mobile Java/C++/Obj-C of course (old news) and HTML5 * If you're into low level, embedded stuff it's always C. * Scalability? Erlang... and so on.. It's really easy to follow the trends around. The hard part is to understand new trends well enough in order to be able to understand if they are a better fit and use them in production. (e.g. Go is faster than RoR, but most people will stick to a framework that's heavily tested, well supported, with an active community, huge set of external plugins and tutorials .. for production. This might change in 4 years... Or maybe not :-)
- AznHisoka 13y ago
  Forget the hoopla about AngularJS, Node, Ember.. Focus on what makes businesses revenue, and do that, as patio11 once said.
  - mgkimsal 13y ago
    It's a nice soundbite, but harder to execute in practice. I can create a lot of business value in Perl, for example. But if the companies and teams that create business value do not use Perl, I can be left out in the cold. There's always the 'rugged individualistic' solo freelance route, but it's limited, especially for someone focused on non-popular/standard tools.
- Consultant32452 13y ago
  I do consulting work and here's what I do. Maintain high level skills in one or more of the most popular languages. This is easily found by doing searches for popular languages on any jobs site. Right now my bankable job skill is Java. There's a ton of work for it, it pays pretty good, and keeps me busy. I also pick up languages that I simply find interesting even though there may not be jobs for that skill. So I might pick up Scala, Ruby, etc. even though there's not currently jobs for those skills in my local area. And honestly at this point, if you pick Java or .NET and maintain your skillsets with new versions as the platforms advance, you could probably make an entire career out of those languages. There's so much code out there that you can be maintaining it for a lifetime without having to try hard. It may wind up being less interesting work decades from now when people are using the new whizbang, but there's always going to be work.
atmosx 13y ago
I like when the nickname fits the character. Congratulations (both for the nick and the long career in THE ever-changing field).
bad_user 13y ago
There's something to be told about learning stuff that matters. Data-structures, algorithms, statistics, machine learning, math in general doesn't change and will be as relevant 30 years from now as it was 30 years ago. POSIX doesn't change either. Learning for learning's sake is actually pointless and can do more harm than good if done tastelessly. The best kind of learning happens either when something is cool and you want more just because you get a boner just thinking about it or when facing a real-world problem that you'd like to solve using a different approach. For an example of pointless learning - learning a language that's similar in concept and popularity to another one that you already know is pointless (e.g. Ruby vs Python), unless you learn it because you've got specific real world needs. For learning new languages, I actually apply the following rule - if learning it doesn't hurt, then I'm waisting time. Another example of pointless learning - anything proprietary, as proprietary things don't survive as well as open-source stuff or stuff based on standards. Actually, taste is required to pick winners - SOAP will be irrelevant in 30 years from now and anybody with taste could have seen it coming since its inception (speaking of which, Google's Protobuf won't survive either, because simple text-based protocols always win).
- lstamour 13y ago
  > Google's Protobuf won't survive either, because simple text-based protocols always win I expect Protobuf, Thrift (fbthrift) and Avro to be around for quite some time. Once you know what they're good for, everyone likes binary formats that can be easily shared across multiple languages via code gen. You can turn every binary format into text-based for debugging purposes using standard commands. Heck, even Apple has binary plists. It's natural that a format eventually gains (or is based on) binary alongside text -- for those times when binary is simply faster. Now, if it's just transmission speed, you can convert text to binary using gzip. Frankly, the key to success for protobuf or thrift as independent projects is how much adoption you see outside of the companies. Oh and I'd also point to the "death of rest" in http://techblog.netflix.com/2012/07/embracing-differences-inside-netflix.html http://techblog.netflix.com/2012/07/embracing-differences-in... -- just as websites provide front-ends to a myriad of backend services, so too can API servers provide a consistent, simple front-end for devices. Not sure what to call it, since as a pattern, it doesn't require a specific protocol, and it could be considered somewhat HATEOAS, except state is easily maintained client-side these days....
brc 13y ago
Creating a personal brand is also important. Having a bunch of things listed on a resume or CV makes it hard to put across a level of experience and competence. As time goes by, people should be publishing interesting blog posts, getting involved in interesting projects, amassing followers in social media and generally making a name for themselves. Ideally, you want to get to the point where people ask you to work for them, rather than the other way around. Learning and showing that learning applied is a very effective route.
- gohrt 13y ago
  As an employer, I'd rather not higher a social-media self-brander to work for me. I'd prefer a developer for engineering jobs. The self-promoter might be a fit for marketing, though!
  - brc 13y ago
    Sure, that's an OK choice to make for you. But if you're heading into the second half of your career, what you absolutely need to do is establish the fact that you know what you are talking about, and are able to clearly and concisely communicate that. Anyone staying in their career for a long time should be a specialist in a few topics, and should be sharing that knowledge. If you're not specialised, your career will be shorter than it could be. It's not about marketing and over-the-top self promotion. It's more about taking control over defining yourself so you can't be easily stereotyped based on a cookie-cutter resume.

mkaziz 13y ago

How do you usually determine what's important at a given time? I feel like I usually find out when it's too late to be at the cutting edge.

MartinCron 13y ago
I personally like to be aware of the cutting edge, but not bother investing time and effort until after the real lunatic fringe has proven or disproven its worth. It's OK to be late to a party, as long as you're fashionably late.
atmosx 13y ago
That's easy: See how many things are implemented in JavaScript? How many times JS-related projects (terminals, vm's, DSLs, monitoring projects, etc) hit the news on hackernews? What kind of companies are using JS frameworks? I'd say JS is by far the hottest language around and I'm a ruby programmer not JS programmer (although, I'm starting next month with JS). Then depends I guess: * if you're a web dev, JS/RoR/SASS/HTML5 with an eye on Rust and Go. Python has interesting frameworks also for web-dev. * If you're into mobile Java/C++/Obj-C of course (old news) and HTML5 * If you're into low level, embedded stuff it's always C. * Scalability? Erlang... and so on.. It's really easy to follow the trends around. The hard part is to understand new trends well enough in order to be able to understand if they are a better fit and use them in production. (e.g. Go is faster than RoR, but most people will stick to a framework that's heavily tested, well supported, with an active community, huge set of external plugins and tutorials .. for production. This might change in 4 years... Or maybe not :-)
AznHisoka 13y ago
Forget the hoopla about AngularJS, Node, Ember.. Focus on what makes businesses revenue, and do that, as patio11 once said.
- mgkimsal 13y ago
  It's a nice soundbite, but harder to execute in practice. I can create a lot of business value in Perl, for example. But if the companies and teams that create business value do not use Perl, I can be left out in the cold. There's always the 'rugged individualistic' solo freelance route, but it's limited, especially for someone focused on non-popular/standard tools.
Consultant32452 13y ago
I do consulting work and here's what I do. Maintain high level skills in one or more of the most popular languages. This is easily found by doing searches for popular languages on any jobs site. Right now my bankable job skill is Java. There's a ton of work for it, it pays pretty good, and keeps me busy. I also pick up languages that I simply find interesting even though there may not be jobs for that skill. So I might pick up Scala, Ruby, etc. even though there's not currently jobs for those skills in my local area. And honestly at this point, if you pick Java or .NET and maintain your skillsets with new versions as the platforms advance, you could probably make an entire career out of those languages. There's so much code out there that you can be maintaining it for a lifetime without having to try hard. It may wind up being less interesting work decades from now when people are using the new whizbang, but there's always going to be work.

atmosx 13y ago

I like when the nickname fits the character. Congratulations (both for the nick and the long career in THE ever-changing field).

bad_user 13y ago

There's something to be told about learning stuff that matters. Data-structures, algorithms, statistics, machine learning, math in general doesn't change and will be as relevant 30 years from now as it was 30 years ago. POSIX doesn't change either. Learning for learning's sake is actually pointless and can do more harm than good if done tastelessly. The best kind of learning happens either when something is cool and you want more just because you get a boner just thinking about it or when facing a real-world problem that you'd like to solve using a different approach. For an example of pointless learning - learning a language that's similar in concept and popularity to another one that you already know is pointless (e.g. Ruby vs Python), unless you learn it because you've got specific real world needs. For learning new languages, I actually apply the following rule - if learning it doesn't hurt, then I'm waisting time. Another example of pointless learning - anything proprietary, as proprietary things don't survive as well as open-source stuff or stuff based on standards. Actually, taste is required to pick winners - SOAP will be irrelevant in 30 years from now and anybody with taste could have seen it coming since its inception (speaking of which, Google's Protobuf won't survive either, because simple text-based protocols always win).

lstamour 13y ago
> Google's Protobuf won't survive either, because simple text-based protocols always win I expect Protobuf, Thrift (fbthrift) and Avro to be around for quite some time. Once you know what they're good for, everyone likes binary formats that can be easily shared across multiple languages via code gen. You can turn every binary format into text-based for debugging purposes using standard commands. Heck, even Apple has binary plists. It's natural that a format eventually gains (or is based on) binary alongside text -- for those times when binary is simply faster. Now, if it's just transmission speed, you can convert text to binary using gzip. Frankly, the key to success for protobuf or thrift as independent projects is how much adoption you see outside of the companies. Oh and I'd also point to the "death of rest" in http://techblog.netflix.com/2012/07/embracing-differences-inside-netflix.html http://techblog.netflix.com/2012/07/embracing-differences-in... -- just as websites provide front-ends to a myriad of backend services, so too can API servers provide a consistent, simple front-end for devices. Not sure what to call it, since as a pattern, it doesn't require a specific protocol, and it could be considered somewhat HATEOAS, except state is easily maintained client-side these days....

brc 13y ago

Creating a personal brand is also important. Having a bunch of things listed on a resume or CV makes it hard to put across a level of experience and competence. As time goes by, people should be publishing interesting blog posts, getting involved in interesting projects, amassing followers in social media and generally making a name for themselves. Ideally, you want to get to the point where people ask you to work for them, rather than the other way around. Learning and showing that learning applied is a very effective route.

gohrt 13y ago
As an employer, I'd rather not higher a social-media self-brander to work for me. I'd prefer a developer for engineering jobs. The self-promoter might be a fit for marketing, though!
- brc 13y ago
  Sure, that's an OK choice to make for you. But if you're heading into the second half of your career, what you absolutely need to do is establish the fact that you know what you are talking about, and are able to clearly and concisely communicate that. Anyone staying in their career for a long time should be a specialist in a few topics, and should be sharing that knowledge. If you're not specialised, your career will be shorter than it could be. It's not about marketing and over-the-top self promotion. It's more about taking control over defining yourself so you can't be easily stereotyped based on a cookie-cutter resume.