5 ms·

Something I feel this article misses is the market outside of the coasts of the US. If you are one of those PhDs who isn't actively seeking to be a janitor for

Something I feel this article misses is the market outside of the coasts of the US. If you are one of those PhDs who isn't actively seeking to be a janitor for the relaxation involved, and you're struggling for work, please look at the Midwest or so-called No Coast. There are tons of well-paying jobs in the Midwest for talented people. Salaries are lower than a standard San Francisco job, but the quality of life is so much higher here it makes up for it. The multi-million dollar homes of Oakland and San Francisco can be yours here on a single person's salary working about 40 hours a week. (Admittedly winters here are worse, but if you do have to drive somewhere, wow you had to pay $5 or $9 for the whole day of parking in a garage 50ft from your door.) http://www.siliconprairienews.com/2014/03/it-manager-full-stack-developer-seo-specialist-and-45-more http://www.siliconprairienews.com/2014/03/it-manager-full-st...

bane 13y ago
If anybody wants to do a little virtual house hunting for no-coast housing, I highly recommend the show "House Hunters" (the International version "House Hunters International" is also great) on HGTV. They also have some similar companion shows like Property Virgins, Hawaii Life, "Buying and Selling" and "Property Borthers" and it's pretty informative as to what local markets are like all over the place. The format is basically the same every show, somebody wants to move someplace, in 30 minutes they give a brief description of what they're looking for and their budget to a real estate agent. The agent then shows them 3 homes in the area. They pick one of the homes and then finally you see how they've moved in and decorated the place 2 or 3 months later. Along the way you get to see a little bit of the area they're looking in. The other shows have similar, but slightly different formats or spins on the basic concept. But House Hunters has the show format down to a concise science. There are episodes where my jaw absolutely drops to the floor seeing how much house and property they can get for their money. For what my garage costs I've seen people get 2 floor 2500 sq ft homes with a detached garage structure and half an acre. Of course other places are equally depressing and have pretty much destroyed life-long dreams to move to a nicer climate for retirement. However, House Hunters International has shown me some new candidates that look like they'd work very well on a retirement income. http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv40/videos/index.html?xp=hh http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv40/videos/index.html?xp=hh
michaelochurch 13y ago
I'm a fan of the Midwest in general and love the seasons (even in MN) but I don't know that the jobs are there. My friend in Madison (a very intelligent "ABD" who, as often happens in math PhD programs, burned out) got $45,000 in his first programming job because his company had no competition. Even now, I doubt he's higher than $90,000. As for leaving SF/Boston/NYC, I moved to Baltimore, which is not the Midwest and actually not that cheap. The two-body problem is a big part of why the "star cities" are so attractive. I like Baltimore-- it's way better than its reputation, although that ain't saying much-- but when I next search for a job, I'll probably find more outside of Baltimore than inside. Also, there's that two-body issue. This move has been good for my career but so-so for my wife's, because there aren't many good companies here. We shouldn't have to choose between one career or the other and, in the long run, we won't. The costs of housing in San Francisco and New York are fucking criminal (literally, if you look into the NIMBY issues) but knowing that both you and your spouse will be able to find high-quality jobs for 10+ years is the draw. I'd rather live in Minneapolis than San Francisco, but I'm pretty sure we could live in San Francisco, career-wise, for at least a decade. Are there going to be VP-level-but-mostly-coding machine learning positions in Minneapolis in 2024? Not a clear call. And cross-country moves are stressful and just get harder with age. Of course, San Francisco and New York spit you out if you don't become, at least in pay grade, Director-level by child-raising age. To be honest, I don't think we'll move to either of those cities when we next relocate, because even though we'll be able to afford it the expensiveness is horrible for the culture. We ranked cities independently and Seattle topped both of our lists; it's affordable (if not exactly cheap) and beautiful and neither of us has a problem with 50-degree cloudy days. (In MN that was called "Early May".)
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  I thought the correct acronym was ABCD? Besides the weather, two body problems are one reason why the mid-west is unappealing, but also your earnings generally scale with living expenses, meaning you have more disposable income to spend on things whose price is fixed across the country. Seattle is my first choice for when I finally move back to the states, but I grew up in the area. You have to be OK with 3 or 4 months of rain, however.

bane 13y ago

If anybody wants to do a little virtual house hunting for no-coast housing, I highly recommend the show "House Hunters" (the International version "House Hunters International" is also great) on HGTV. They also have some similar companion shows like Property Virgins, Hawaii Life, "Buying and Selling" and "Property Borthers" and it's pretty informative as to what local markets are like all over the place. The format is basically the same every show, somebody wants to move someplace, in 30 minutes they give a brief description of what they're looking for and their budget to a real estate agent. The agent then shows them 3 homes in the area. They pick one of the homes and then finally you see how they've moved in and decorated the place 2 or 3 months later. Along the way you get to see a little bit of the area they're looking in. The other shows have similar, but slightly different formats or spins on the basic concept. But House Hunters has the show format down to a concise science. There are episodes where my jaw absolutely drops to the floor seeing how much house and property they can get for their money. For what my garage costs I've seen people get 2 floor 2500 sq ft homes with a detached garage structure and half an acre. Of course other places are equally depressing and have pretty much destroyed life-long dreams to move to a nicer climate for retirement. However, House Hunters International has shown me some new candidates that look like they'd work very well on a retirement income. http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv40/videos/index.html?xp=hh http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv40/videos/index.html?xp=hh

michaelochurch 13y ago

I'm a fan of the Midwest in general and love the seasons (even in MN) but I don't know that the jobs are there. My friend in Madison (a very intelligent "ABD" who, as often happens in math PhD programs, burned out) got $45,000 in his first programming job because his company had no competition. Even now, I doubt he's higher than $90,000. As for leaving SF/Boston/NYC, I moved to Baltimore, which is not the Midwest and actually not that cheap. The two-body problem is a big part of why the "star cities" are so attractive. I like Baltimore-- it's way better than its reputation, although that ain't saying much-- but when I next search for a job, I'll probably find more outside of Baltimore than inside. Also, there's that two-body issue. This move has been good for my career but so-so for my wife's, because there aren't many good companies here. We shouldn't have to choose between one career or the other and, in the long run, we won't. The costs of housing in San Francisco and New York are fucking criminal (literally, if you look into the NIMBY issues) but knowing that both you and your spouse will be able to find high-quality jobs for 10+ years is the draw. I'd rather live in Minneapolis than San Francisco, but I'm pretty sure we could live in San Francisco, career-wise, for at least a decade. Are there going to be VP-level-but-mostly-coding machine learning positions in Minneapolis in 2024? Not a clear call. And cross-country moves are stressful and just get harder with age. Of course, San Francisco and New York spit you out if you don't become, at least in pay grade, Director-level by child-raising age. To be honest, I don't think we'll move to either of those cities when we next relocate, because even though we'll be able to afford it the expensiveness is horrible for the culture. We ranked cities independently and Seattle topped both of our lists; it's affordable (if not exactly cheap) and beautiful and neither of us has a problem with 50-degree cloudy days. (In MN that was called "Early May".)

seanmcdirmid 13y ago
I thought the correct acronym was ABCD? Besides the weather, two body problems are one reason why the mid-west is unappealing, but also your earnings generally scale with living expenses, meaning you have more disposable income to spend on things whose price is fixed across the country. Seattle is my first choice for when I finally move back to the states, but I grew up in the area. You have to be OK with 3 or 4 months of rain, however.