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>> A critical test? He doesn't have enough power to do anything about it. If this is indeed true, then it would mean that the US political system (which is reg

>> A critical test? He doesn't have enough power to do anything about it. If this is indeed true, then it would mean that the US political system (which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally) is corrupt from the core and the idea of checks & balances is completely bogus. If this is case, and if we as (Americans? people?) tolerate it, then I guess it's our implicit way of saying "corruption is indeed the best way — it keeps everyone happy" (pan e circo). If we don't tolerate it and change it somehow, then maybe our particular multiverse trajectory goes another direction. Who knows if Obama is actually the one to do this. I'm not expecting much of anything from him, no more/less than I do of any other past President. I have no clue what it's like to be POTUS, but I assume it's like inheriting the CEO/President role at a super old, well-known established company, with an even older and power-hungry Board. Sure, they'll let you be the CEO, but they hold all the political "preferred stock" and can make sure the CEO is ousted if he doesn't do what they want.

thaumasiotes 13y ago
>> A critical test? He doesn't have enough power to do anything about it. > If this is indeed true, then it would mean that the US political system (which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally) is corrupt from the core and the idea of checks & balances is completely bogus. Ever since someone asked me if I thought GWB was "a good president", I've been mildly interested in what the president is (a) supposed to do, and (b) empowered to do. It turns out both questions are quite difficult to answer, and in particular the answer to (b), as best as I've been able to tell, is "almost nothing". At this point, I'm a little confused as to why the position is so prestigious.
- debugunit 13y ago
  Douglas Adams satirised precisely this point with his Zaphod Beeblebrox character in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. To quote wikipedia[1], his was "a role that involves no power whatsoever, and merely requires the incumbent to attract attention so no one wonders who's really in charge, a role for which Zaphod was perfectly suited" [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaphod_Beeblebrox http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaphod_Beeblebrox
- aidos 13y ago
  As far as I can tell it's some sort of interesting issue with the human condition. If you compare pre-presidential Obama's views with the current Obama's you see that he's become totally impotent regarding the issues he argued so strongly about in the past. So something changes once he's in power (I suspect there's a look of talk about what "is in the best interest of the people"). There's nothing physically stopping him - he's in a position where he addresses the world. He could very well stand up at his next speech and say "I'm very worried about the seemingly illegal activities of govt agencies... I've struggled change anything because... There are powers in play would prefer...". As a human being on this earth there's absolutely nothing stopping him from doing that but we all know it's never going to happen. It's sad really.
  - thaumasiotes 13y ago
    > So something changes once he's in power But my point is, he's not actually "in power" as far as I can tell. What power is he in? What can he do? And why? Ilya Somin likes to point out that the government suffers when shark attacks occur, no matter that there is generally no conceivable relationship between them. Is respect for the office of the president backed by anything more substantial?
atmosx 13y ago
> If this is indeed true, then it would mean that the US political system (which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally) [...]. Come again?! Where did this come from, Hollywood?
- jtfrench 13y ago
  just look around you. Surely I'm not the first person to mention this concept to you. I'm not saying I believe that the US has the best example of democracy, but true or not, that's the general story being "sold" on the news (and yes, in movies as well).
  - vidarh 13y ago
    It's the general story being "sold" in a subset of US news. In large part of the rest of the world, the threat of "American conditions" or similar is a frequently used political insult.
  - lotsofmangos 13y ago
    The news and movies are lying to you. This is not a common view across the world.
Ihmahr 13y ago
> US political system (which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally) > regarded best globally Excuse me?
- jtfrench 13y ago
  I find it hilarious how you and others ask rhetorical questions like this, as if you had trouble reading what I wrote, and need me to repeat it. Without going into this again, you can refer to my previous comments.
  - josephlord 13y ago
    I think the fact that so many people don't understand the point you were making probably means you didn't make the point clearly enough. If you has said "is regarded by Americans as ..." you would have been clear. As it is your comment gives another impression.
    - res0nat0r 13y ago
      He probably is getting tired (as I am) of all of the comments on HN anymore that American government is the worst that has ever been present on planet earth, because the NSA (a spy agency) has been caught spying (their mandate). If one would ease up on the constant "the government of the USA is literally Hitler" nonsense a bit, maybe more productive talk could occur.
      - Ihmahr 13y ago
        Not at all. The point is that he is making a very controversial claim with no evidence or source at all. Also, you are the one dropping the H. bomb.
      - josephlord 13y ago
        My comment said nothing about the actual position only the fact that the point he was trying to express wasn't clear (previous poster had to follow up to at least three posts to explain it again and I wouldn't have understood the meaning without the follow ups). I wouldn't have commented but for the fact the follow up was blaming others for not understanding rather than accepting the lack of clarity in the post. I don't believe the USA is Hitler or the worst on the planet but that is not the expectation or standard the US should be held to. It used to be an example to the world (or at least wanted to be one), a shining beacon of hope[0]. Now the standard is "not as bad as China" which is a sad state of affairs and isn't enough to have moral authority in the world.[2] I haven't seen many (not sure I've seen any) posts saying the US government is Hitler but what I have seen is a number of comparisons to the Stasi. The Stasi were famous for the massive amounts of surveilance and they would have loved the capabilities that the NSA had. That doesn't mean that the results of political opposition in the US are the same as they were in East Germany but East Germany was one of the experiments in the effects on observers and the observed in a mass surveilance society and we should at least look to it for lesson and warnings. [0] I know that there were always flaws but the aspiration was there. [2] I'm from and in the UK and I make no claim that we are better in general, while in some ways it feels less corrupt and politically broken than the US sometimes seems we don't bother to restrain GCHQ at all.
galois17 13y ago
"[US political system] which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally" err, what? As a foreigner living in the US for the last 5 years I will tell you this: The US political system is regarded as the best example of democracy, by they Americans only. Period. Having lived and traveled in Europe for the most part of my 30 years of my adult life I have heard no person having this perception of the American political system. In fact, I would say that it is closer to the truth to claim that the American political system is regarded as corrupted, like most of other political systems globally. I really don't want to hijack the thread but I am kind of tired of this perception that some Americans have of themselves and their country that is ("regarded as") the best democracy in the world. The american democracy is a representative democracy powered mainly by two private funded right-wing Christian parties. Not to mention that this political system cannot provide to it's citizens and tax payers the right to public education and public health care. Anyways, yes in my opinion, it would not be a surprise at all if CIA spied on Congress or if the President (or better the USA CEO) could not do anything about it.
- f_salmon 13y ago
  > "[US political system] which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally" As far as I can tell, Switzerland has the best political system (with the most direct democracy) and it's really a shame that nobody seems to want to imitate it (which of course can be explained by the fact that it means more power goes to the People, not corporations/secret gvt agencies/etc, which are often allowed to buy politicians via "donations", accepted corruption called "lobbying", etc)
  - jtfrench 13y ago
    It's a good point, and I wonder what is the ultimate underlying reason because I've heard many share that same opinion. Despite all the things the US political system gets "wrong" and other systems "get right" — somehow the US still calls the shots.
  - mattlutze 13y ago
    Switzerland has strong redistributive system. From a layman's perspective, it would seem this can be supported by the very high profits in the financial and high-end finished goods markets. In an economy without such high GDP and average household income, I wonder if it would still be such an effective or model system.
aaronbrethorst 13y ago
> the idea of checks & balances is completely bogus. Those checks and balances are keeping Gitmo open. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/12/26/obama-takes-swipe-at-congress-over-guantanamo/ http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/12/26/obama-takes-...

thaumasiotes 13y ago

>> A critical test? He doesn't have enough power to do anything about it. > If this is indeed true, then it would mean that the US political system (which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally) is corrupt from the core and the idea of checks & balances is completely bogus. Ever since someone asked me if I thought GWB was "a good president", I've been mildly interested in what the president is (a) supposed to do, and (b) empowered to do. It turns out both questions are quite difficult to answer, and in particular the answer to (b), as best as I've been able to tell, is "almost nothing". At this point, I'm a little confused as to why the position is so prestigious.

debugunit 13y ago
Douglas Adams satirised precisely this point with his Zaphod Beeblebrox character in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. To quote wikipedia[1], his was "a role that involves no power whatsoever, and merely requires the incumbent to attract attention so no one wonders who's really in charge, a role for which Zaphod was perfectly suited" [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaphod_Beeblebrox http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaphod_Beeblebrox
aidos 13y ago
As far as I can tell it's some sort of interesting issue with the human condition. If you compare pre-presidential Obama's views with the current Obama's you see that he's become totally impotent regarding the issues he argued so strongly about in the past. So something changes once he's in power (I suspect there's a look of talk about what "is in the best interest of the people"). There's nothing physically stopping him - he's in a position where he addresses the world. He could very well stand up at his next speech and say "I'm very worried about the seemingly illegal activities of govt agencies... I've struggled change anything because... There are powers in play would prefer...". As a human being on this earth there's absolutely nothing stopping him from doing that but we all know it's never going to happen. It's sad really.
- thaumasiotes 13y ago
  > So something changes once he's in power But my point is, he's not actually "in power" as far as I can tell. What power is he in? What can he do? And why? Ilya Somin likes to point out that the government suffers when shark attacks occur, no matter that there is generally no conceivable relationship between them. Is respect for the office of the president backed by anything more substantial?

atmosx 13y ago

> If this is indeed true, then it would mean that the US political system (which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally) [...]. Come again?! Where did this come from, Hollywood?

jtfrench 13y ago
just look around you. Surely I'm not the first person to mention this concept to you. I'm not saying I believe that the US has the best example of democracy, but true or not, that's the general story being "sold" on the news (and yes, in movies as well).
- vidarh 13y ago
  It's the general story being "sold" in a subset of US news. In large part of the rest of the world, the threat of "American conditions" or similar is a frequently used political insult.
- lotsofmangos 13y ago
  The news and movies are lying to you. This is not a common view across the world.

Ihmahr 13y ago

> US political system (which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally) > regarded best globally Excuse me?

jtfrench 13y ago
I find it hilarious how you and others ask rhetorical questions like this, as if you had trouble reading what I wrote, and need me to repeat it. Without going into this again, you can refer to my previous comments.
- josephlord 13y ago
  I think the fact that so many people don't understand the point you were making probably means you didn't make the point clearly enough. If you has said "is regarded by Americans as ..." you would have been clear. As it is your comment gives another impression.
  - res0nat0r 13y ago
    He probably is getting tired (as I am) of all of the comments on HN anymore that American government is the worst that has ever been present on planet earth, because the NSA (a spy agency) has been caught spying (their mandate). If one would ease up on the constant "the government of the USA is literally Hitler" nonsense a bit, maybe more productive talk could occur.
    - Ihmahr 13y ago
      Not at all. The point is that he is making a very controversial claim with no evidence or source at all. Also, you are the one dropping the H. bomb.
    - josephlord 13y ago
      My comment said nothing about the actual position only the fact that the point he was trying to express wasn't clear (previous poster had to follow up to at least three posts to explain it again and I wouldn't have understood the meaning without the follow ups). I wouldn't have commented but for the fact the follow up was blaming others for not understanding rather than accepting the lack of clarity in the post. I don't believe the USA is Hitler or the worst on the planet but that is not the expectation or standard the US should be held to. It used to be an example to the world (or at least wanted to be one), a shining beacon of hope[0]. Now the standard is "not as bad as China" which is a sad state of affairs and isn't enough to have moral authority in the world.[2] I haven't seen many (not sure I've seen any) posts saying the US government is Hitler but what I have seen is a number of comparisons to the Stasi. The Stasi were famous for the massive amounts of surveilance and they would have loved the capabilities that the NSA had. That doesn't mean that the results of political opposition in the US are the same as they were in East Germany but East Germany was one of the experiments in the effects on observers and the observed in a mass surveilance society and we should at least look to it for lesson and warnings. [0] I know that there were always flaws but the aspiration was there. [2] I'm from and in the UK and I make no claim that we are better in general, while in some ways it feels less corrupt and politically broken than the US sometimes seems we don't bother to restrain GCHQ at all.

galois17 13y ago

"[US political system] which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally" err, what? As a foreigner living in the US for the last 5 years I will tell you this: The US political system is regarded as the best example of democracy, by they Americans only. Period. Having lived and traveled in Europe for the most part of my 30 years of my adult life I have heard no person having this perception of the American political system. In fact, I would say that it is closer to the truth to claim that the American political system is regarded as corrupted, like most of other political systems globally. I really don't want to hijack the thread but I am kind of tired of this perception that some Americans have of themselves and their country that is ("regarded as") the best democracy in the world. The american democracy is a representative democracy powered mainly by two private funded right-wing Christian parties. Not to mention that this political system cannot provide to it's citizens and tax payers the right to public education and public health care. Anyways, yes in my opinion, it would not be a surprise at all if CIA spied on Congress or if the President (or better the USA CEO) could not do anything about it.

f_salmon 13y ago
> "[US political system] which is regarded as the best example of democracy, globally" As far as I can tell, Switzerland has the best political system (with the most direct democracy) and it's really a shame that nobody seems to want to imitate it (which of course can be explained by the fact that it means more power goes to the People, not corporations/secret gvt agencies/etc, which are often allowed to buy politicians via "donations", accepted corruption called "lobbying", etc)
- jtfrench 13y ago
  It's a good point, and I wonder what is the ultimate underlying reason because I've heard many share that same opinion. Despite all the things the US political system gets "wrong" and other systems "get right" — somehow the US still calls the shots.
- mattlutze 13y ago
  Switzerland has strong redistributive system. From a layman's perspective, it would seem this can be supported by the very high profits in the financial and high-end finished goods markets. In an economy without such high GDP and average household income, I wonder if it would still be such an effective or model system.

aaronbrethorst 13y ago

> the idea of checks & balances is completely bogus. Those checks and balances are keeping Gitmo open. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/12/26/obama-takes-swipe-at-congress-over-guantanamo/ http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/12/26/obama-takes-...