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I've felt this is the case for a long time. A lot of people have a smooth experience in math for years until they hit their first serious discontinuity. That co

I've felt this is the case for a long time. A lot of people have a smooth experience in math for years until they hit their first serious discontinuity. That could happen anywhere: times tables, fraction arithmetic, two-step equations, geometric proofs, radicals, limits, or maybe even college math. The reaction is nearly universal though. The person thinks, "holy crap, I guess I'm actually not good at math", anxiety strikes, and they freeze up. Some people find eventually find their way around this first road block, and future discontinuities in understanding become less stressful, and eventually understood to be a completely normal part the process. But the usual experience is that a person's math confidence is blown and as the math truck barrels on ahead, they never catch up. They understandably accept the identity of not being "good at math". What's missing in math pedagogy at most schools is a systematic way to deal with the discontinuities when they strike, especially that first time. We can prepare students to deal with that panic. The tough part is that the math teacher probably has 90 students on roster, but the discontinuity could hit pretty much any given lesson, for some given student. I know so many people who have come back to intermediate math later in life and breezed through it, armed with intellectual confidence gained from other fields. They look back and wonder how they came to be so intimidated by math in their younger days. We've got to give younger people the tools and knowledge for overcoming this intimidation at a younger age. We've got to kill "I'm just not good at math".

japhyr 13y ago
as the math truck barrels on ahead I've been teaching math to at-risk high school students for the last 10 years. I have spent more time helping students understand that they are not stupid, that something just got in the way of their learning at one point, and they never understood anything after that. I'm going to use your quote in some of these conversations now. What most of my students think: "I could never do math, I fucking hate it, and I might drop out because I will never finish my math credits. I can't do math because it's stupid and meaningless and I will never get it." What really happened to get people off track? - Some just didn't follow one topic in some early grade, nothing else made sense after that, and no teacher was prepared to get them back on track. - Parents split up, student couldn't focus in school for 6 months, they got off track. - Parent/ sibling/ significant person passed away when student was young, couldn't focus for 6 months-2 years, no way to get back on track. Any number of other external events happen, and it is perfectly reasonable for students to get off track in math. a systematic way to deal with the discontinuities when they strike, especially that first time Exactly. I would like to see every elementary school have a math specialist, who knows advanced math, to help students with their overall understanding when they get off track. Helping a kid master some mechanics does a little to get them back on track, but diagnosing misunderstandings takes more math expertise than most elementary teachers have. I could go on forever; thank you for putting some of these issues so clearly in focus.
- j2kun 13y ago
  I think part of the problem is that the math track is way too linear. It doesn't need to be that way, as I've written about a few times in the past.
  - acjohnson55 13y ago
    I'm not sure how addressable that is. While math could be modeled as a DAG globally, I think it is inherently linear locally (no smooth function pun intended) and incremental. Sure you could jump around, but I think at the end of day, if a student is going to progress to advanced math, they can't dodge tricky concepts. But maybe I'm misinterpreting your point. Do you have links to what you've written?
    - j2kun 13y ago
      I mean this about the typical subject matter of high school (which is what this branch of the comment thread concerns). Nobody needs to learn how to graph accurate ellipses and the various facts about congruent triangles before doing calculus. You also don't need excellence in algebra to do geometry. There are some fundamentals, like being able to work with fractions, but largely high school education is a lot of parallel topics that they make you think are linearly dependent (no linear algebra pun intended). Advanced math, on the other hand, is a different matter. And as far as HS education is concerned I believe the focus should be on building mathematical thinking skills and not worrying about preparing students for a particular subject they're unlikely to ever use. For example, here is a lecture that I give to HS math students on graph theory [1]. You'll notice there's no algebra, no geometry, no calculus, almost nothing is required except the idea of a function (and even that is technically not required, and I tell them not to worry if it's confusing). What is in this talk is a whole lot of mathematical thinking, and I do believe (though this sounds like bravado) that if I were to put my mind to it I could model a year's worth of HS education around developing this kind of mathematical thinking. It would also have some highly nonlinear components to it, organized instead primarily around proof techniques. [1]: http://jeremykun.com/2011/06/26/teaching-mathematics-graph-theory/ http://jeremykun.com/2011/06/26/teaching-mathematics-graph-t...
jmclean 13y ago
This hits close to home for me. I was one of those kids who was 'good at math' throughout pretty much all of school. I tested out of Calc I thanks to AP classes and began university in Calc II. It didn't go well. Somehow this thing that had seemed so natural and intuitive now just seemed totally incomprehensible, mainly because I really just didn't understand the level the abstraction was at or something. I did poorly and it really shook my confidence. I changed majors and wound up a designer instead. It's not a surprise to me that I've worked my way back into a field with deep math roots, though I think I would have found it much sooner if it hadn't been for that initial roadblock. It gave me a new appreciation for what many of my classmates were struggling with in the early math that I breezed through in grade school. It's very difficult to see what the concepts you're learning are building towards if you don't have a sense of the bigger picture.
rachellaw 13y ago
that is a really fantastic point I thought I was good at it until I hit 17-18, doing advanced mathematics. I really didn't understand Taylor series, and I just froze up on the calculations. You fall behind, and then the class just moves forward and it stops being fun anymore I don't know the solution, but as you said - I went back into it later and it was much easier. Catching up those years inbetween was hard though!

japhyr 13y ago

as the math truck barrels on ahead I've been teaching math to at-risk high school students for the last 10 years. I have spent more time helping students understand that they are not stupid, that something just got in the way of their learning at one point, and they never understood anything after that. I'm going to use your quote in some of these conversations now. What most of my students think: "I could never do math, I fucking hate it, and I might drop out because I will never finish my math credits. I can't do math because it's stupid and meaningless and I will never get it." What really happened to get people off track? - Some just didn't follow one topic in some early grade, nothing else made sense after that, and no teacher was prepared to get them back on track. - Parents split up, student couldn't focus in school for 6 months, they got off track. - Parent/ sibling/ significant person passed away when student was young, couldn't focus for 6 months-2 years, no way to get back on track. Any number of other external events happen, and it is perfectly reasonable for students to get off track in math. a systematic way to deal with the discontinuities when they strike, especially that first time Exactly. I would like to see every elementary school have a math specialist, who knows advanced math, to help students with their overall understanding when they get off track. Helping a kid master some mechanics does a little to get them back on track, but diagnosing misunderstandings takes more math expertise than most elementary teachers have. I could go on forever; thank you for putting some of these issues so clearly in focus.

j2kun 13y ago
I think part of the problem is that the math track is way too linear. It doesn't need to be that way, as I've written about a few times in the past.
- acjohnson55 13y ago
  I'm not sure how addressable that is. While math could be modeled as a DAG globally, I think it is inherently linear locally (no smooth function pun intended) and incremental. Sure you could jump around, but I think at the end of day, if a student is going to progress to advanced math, they can't dodge tricky concepts. But maybe I'm misinterpreting your point. Do you have links to what you've written?
  - j2kun 13y ago
    I mean this about the typical subject matter of high school (which is what this branch of the comment thread concerns). Nobody needs to learn how to graph accurate ellipses and the various facts about congruent triangles before doing calculus. You also don't need excellence in algebra to do geometry. There are some fundamentals, like being able to work with fractions, but largely high school education is a lot of parallel topics that they make you think are linearly dependent (no linear algebra pun intended). Advanced math, on the other hand, is a different matter. And as far as HS education is concerned I believe the focus should be on building mathematical thinking skills and not worrying about preparing students for a particular subject they're unlikely to ever use. For example, here is a lecture that I give to HS math students on graph theory [1]. You'll notice there's no algebra, no geometry, no calculus, almost nothing is required except the idea of a function (and even that is technically not required, and I tell them not to worry if it's confusing). What is in this talk is a whole lot of mathematical thinking, and I do believe (though this sounds like bravado) that if I were to put my mind to it I could model a year's worth of HS education around developing this kind of mathematical thinking. It would also have some highly nonlinear components to it, organized instead primarily around proof techniques. [1]: http://jeremykun.com/2011/06/26/teaching-mathematics-graph-theory/ http://jeremykun.com/2011/06/26/teaching-mathematics-graph-t...

jmclean 13y ago

This hits close to home for me. I was one of those kids who was 'good at math' throughout pretty much all of school. I tested out of Calc I thanks to AP classes and began university in Calc II. It didn't go well. Somehow this thing that had seemed so natural and intuitive now just seemed totally incomprehensible, mainly because I really just didn't understand the level the abstraction was at or something. I did poorly and it really shook my confidence. I changed majors and wound up a designer instead. It's not a surprise to me that I've worked my way back into a field with deep math roots, though I think I would have found it much sooner if it hadn't been for that initial roadblock. It gave me a new appreciation for what many of my classmates were struggling with in the early math that I breezed through in grade school. It's very difficult to see what the concepts you're learning are building towards if you don't have a sense of the bigger picture.

rachellaw 13y ago

that is a really fantastic point I thought I was good at it until I hit 17-18, doing advanced mathematics. I really didn't understand Taylor series, and I just froze up on the calculations. You fall behind, and then the class just moves forward and it stops being fun anymore I don't know the solution, but as you said - I went back into it later and it was much easier. Catching up those years inbetween was hard though!