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Please guys, please please use your own BTC wallets. It's not that hard, really. Only put up your coins online in exchanges(Like BitStamp) for a few hours to tr

Please guys, please please use your own BTC wallets. It's not that hard, really. Only put up your coins online in exchanges(Like BitStamp) for a few hours to trade then immediately transfer them back to your OWN 100% trustable wallet. So many hacks and people are just not getting it. Trust no one, stay safe. My Mac wallet of choice: https://electrum.org https://electrum.org

pja 13y ago
By doing this, you've turned your local hard drive and the backups you made from it into an extraordinarily valuable object, thus massively increasing the incentive to steal it. "But wait!" you say, "I shall use modern cryptography to protect my wealth from prying eyes!" Yes, and the thief in the night will use rubber hose cryptography on you. There is a reason why the vast majority of people entrust their wealth to banks & not a safe buried under the floor of their house. I'm sure the BitCoin community will learn this truth about monetary systems at roughly the same rate as they've learnt all the others & probably the hard way given recent evidence.
- jnbiche 13y ago
  Out of all of the many security incidents we've experienced in Bitcoin's short but eventful lifespan, not a single one has involved anything like rubber hose cryptoanalysis. This in spite of the fact that numerous public Bitcoin figures are known to be millionaires many time over. Why is this? Well, if you choose to "use rubber hose cryptography" on someone to steal their Bitcoins, you've graduated from a faceless, online, white collar crime that many police departments won't even take a report for ("they've stolen your Bitwhats? Yeah, we'll get back to you.") to an extremely serious crime that will get you locked up in violent prisons for a very long amount of time in every country of the world. So it's not surprising that the scenario you describe has not happened. It may happen yet, but it will be a rarity and not a statistically-meaningful threat.
  - rayiner 13y ago
    I don't think physical bitcoin muggings should be crimes for police to handle. Let's see how deep the anarchist rabbit hole goes. Not much of a "trust less" system if its all backed up with guys with guns anyway.
    - dllthomas 13y ago
      My issue with this is what is the response when someone says "give me your bitcoins" and the other person replies "I don't have any." You're going to clearly be hitting people who are not wanting to participate in your experiment.
  - merloen 13y ago
    Civilized countries don't have violent prisons.
    - FBT 13y ago
      Yeah, we know already that the US isn't a civilised country, you don't have to rub it in.
    - jnbiche 13y ago
      Agree 100%. Can you point to a country that doesn't have violent prisons? If so, I'll change that to "most countries".
  - M4v3R 13y ago
    It still centralizes risk by putting it all on yourself. There were MANY cases of Bitcoin theft from user computers - allinvain's 20k theft among others. This is by far not the best way yo store Bitcoins.
    - epsylon 13y ago
      On yourself? No need to. Print 3 copies of paper wallet. Store in 3 different bank vaults.
- nhaehnle 13y ago
  > rubber hose cryptography Shouldn't that really be rubber hose cryptanalysis?
  - pja 13y ago
    Probably!
- moe 13y ago
  Yes, and the thief in the night will use rubber hose cryptography on you. Yes, that's not absurd at all. These blockchain-monitoring, bitcoin-wallet correlating cyber-thieves with their rubberhoses are a real plague. It's just so much easier than, say, robbing people near an ATM at gunpoint...
- meerita 13y ago
  Why not saving all in a good USB storage, go to a bank, open a vault, store it. It's almost imposible break trought and get robbed. You only operate from bank, then move it back to the vault. That if you're too paranoid.
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- deleted 13y ago
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- shawabawa3 13y ago
  > Keep in mind that clients like Electrum and Multibit are storing Wallets in the cloud Electrum doesn't store the wallet in the cloud, it just uses a web service instead of downloading the entire blockchain.
yardie 13y ago
Can this use the default bitcoin wallet or does it create its own? I have the main Bitcoin app (which takes up almost 20GB on my SSD with it's blockchain) and I have a few others, like multibit. There doesn't appear to be any wallet management, each app creates its own wallet and can't open the wallet from another BTC app.
bjourne 13y ago
How can you be so sure that your wallet software doesn't contain any exploitable bugs? No matter what scheme you use, it doesn't seem safe enough for storing large sums of money. At least Debian have had their repositories hacked in such a way that the hacker could have distributed tailor made exploits users would receive by running "apt-get upgrade". It's not so hard imagining someone inserting code in a bitcoin client to send all your coins to one specific address. If it's not a hacker, it could be an insider at Debian or the author of the bitcoin client themselves. I haven't seen any bitcoin advocate solving that conundrum. If the supposed experts of securing software can't keep their free software safe, how on earth are regular users going to keep their life savings safe on their own?
markkat 13y ago
How could bitcoin ever reach mainstream adoption if this is the best kind of security available? I am going to have to worry about providing my own security? USD is far more attractive if that's the case. I believe in the potential of bitcoin, but if cloud wallet services cannot succeed, then bitcoin can't succeed.
TeMPOraL 13y ago
AFAIK one of the reason people moved away from their own BTC wallets was because of Bitcoin-stealing malware. Your own 100% trustable wallet is only one keylogger away from being empty.

pja 13y ago

By doing this, you've turned your local hard drive and the backups you made from it into an extraordinarily valuable object, thus massively increasing the incentive to steal it. "But wait!" you say, "I shall use modern cryptography to protect my wealth from prying eyes!" Yes, and the thief in the night will use rubber hose cryptography on you. There is a reason why the vast majority of people entrust their wealth to banks & not a safe buried under the floor of their house. I'm sure the BitCoin community will learn this truth about monetary systems at roughly the same rate as they've learnt all the others & probably the hard way given recent evidence.

jnbiche 13y ago
Out of all of the many security incidents we've experienced in Bitcoin's short but eventful lifespan, not a single one has involved anything like rubber hose cryptoanalysis. This in spite of the fact that numerous public Bitcoin figures are known to be millionaires many time over. Why is this? Well, if you choose to "use rubber hose cryptography" on someone to steal their Bitcoins, you've graduated from a faceless, online, white collar crime that many police departments won't even take a report for ("they've stolen your Bitwhats? Yeah, we'll get back to you.") to an extremely serious crime that will get you locked up in violent prisons for a very long amount of time in every country of the world. So it's not surprising that the scenario you describe has not happened. It may happen yet, but it will be a rarity and not a statistically-meaningful threat.
- rayiner 13y ago
  I don't think physical bitcoin muggings should be crimes for police to handle. Let's see how deep the anarchist rabbit hole goes. Not much of a "trust less" system if its all backed up with guys with guns anyway.
  - dllthomas 13y ago
    My issue with this is what is the response when someone says "give me your bitcoins" and the other person replies "I don't have any." You're going to clearly be hitting people who are not wanting to participate in your experiment.
- merloen 13y ago
  Civilized countries don't have violent prisons.
  - FBT 13y ago
    Yeah, we know already that the US isn't a civilised country, you don't have to rub it in.
  - jnbiche 13y ago
    Agree 100%. Can you point to a country that doesn't have violent prisons? If so, I'll change that to "most countries".
- M4v3R 13y ago
  It still centralizes risk by putting it all on yourself. There were MANY cases of Bitcoin theft from user computers - allinvain's 20k theft among others. This is by far not the best way yo store Bitcoins.
  - epsylon 13y ago
    On yourself? No need to. Print 3 copies of paper wallet. Store in 3 different bank vaults.
nhaehnle 13y ago
> rubber hose cryptography Shouldn't that really be rubber hose cryptanalysis?
- pja 13y ago
  Probably!
moe 13y ago
Yes, and the thief in the night will use rubber hose cryptography on you. Yes, that's not absurd at all. These blockchain-monitoring, bitcoin-wallet correlating cyber-thieves with their rubberhoses are a real plague. It's just so much easier than, say, robbing people near an ATM at gunpoint...
meerita 13y ago
Why not saving all in a good USB storage, go to a bank, open a vault, store it. It's almost imposible break trought and get robbed. You only operate from bank, then move it back to the vault. That if you're too paranoid.

deleted 13y ago

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deleted 13y ago
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shawabawa3 13y ago
> Keep in mind that clients like Electrum and Multibit are storing Wallets in the cloud Electrum doesn't store the wallet in the cloud, it just uses a web service instead of downloading the entire blockchain.

yardie 13y ago

Can this use the default bitcoin wallet or does it create its own? I have the main Bitcoin app (which takes up almost 20GB on my SSD with it's blockchain) and I have a few others, like multibit. There doesn't appear to be any wallet management, each app creates its own wallet and can't open the wallet from another BTC app.

bjourne 13y ago

How can you be so sure that your wallet software doesn't contain any exploitable bugs? No matter what scheme you use, it doesn't seem safe enough for storing large sums of money. At least Debian have had their repositories hacked in such a way that the hacker could have distributed tailor made exploits users would receive by running "apt-get upgrade". It's not so hard imagining someone inserting code in a bitcoin client to send all your coins to one specific address. If it's not a hacker, it could be an insider at Debian or the author of the bitcoin client themselves. I haven't seen any bitcoin advocate solving that conundrum. If the supposed experts of securing software can't keep their free software safe, how on earth are regular users going to keep their life savings safe on their own?

markkat 13y ago

How could bitcoin ever reach mainstream adoption if this is the best kind of security available? I am going to have to worry about providing my own security? USD is far more attractive if that's the case. I believe in the potential of bitcoin, but if cloud wallet services cannot succeed, then bitcoin can't succeed.

TeMPOraL 13y ago

AFAIK one of the reason people moved away from their own BTC wallets was because of Bitcoin-stealing malware. Your own 100% trustable wallet is only one keylogger away from being empty.