7 ms·

It's hard to like Android.

56 points by pclark 17y ago

ram1024 17y ago
it's new. it's not iphone. you can't compare an incumbent frontrun technology with a community playing catch up. if you can't see why android is better and will be more successful than iphone then it's not for you.
gamache 17y ago
I love the closing statement: Linux vs Windows/MacOS, all over again. You gain Freedom by using an open platform, making life worse for yourself in a thousand tiny ways, any one of which can easily be dismissed, so they are. But it’s still worse. Zing. I recognize exactly what the author is talking about.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- tc 17y ago
  I recognize what he's talking about too, but having given both sides a serious whirl, my life is still definitely better for free software. Years ago Linux desktop usage was a bit of a drag. But at the time, Windows servers were so much worse that as an integrated system, you were still net ahead. Now that my printers, scanners, and peripherals have all worked without hassle for years there isn't even a trade off. Rather, I shake my head while watching people fight with driver wizard CDs.
  - dkarl 17y ago
    I agree. Desktop Linux is a great source of hope for struggling platforms. Even if it isn't for Aunt Millie, it has gone from being embarrassingly bad to being [a couple of] my favorite desktop environment[s]. Here's hoping Android follows the same trajectory. (It's certainly starting in the same place.)
    - antonovka 17y ago
      Linux is only a reasonable desktop if you're only spending your time in a terminal, using emacs/vi/eclipse/netbeans/etc. Before moving to Mac OS X from Linux/BSD desktops, I failed to appreciate the value of polished, non-developer software. Now, I regularly tear my hair out trying to interact with Linux users. From diagram software (OmniGraffle/Visio) to accounting software (QuickBooks) to billing software (Billings by Marketcircle), Linux just doesn't have the solid, polished applications, and it interoperates exceptionally poorly in environments where Mac OS X and Windows get along just fine. For example -- I can easily share diagrams with Visio users, but Dia is not a replacement for Visio/OmniGraffle and won't do the trick. How am I supposed to diagram with Linux users? Use dot/graphviz and create remarkably ugly diagrams? If I had to assign blame for the lack of quality applications, I'd say that the APIs are unstable and inconsistent, there's no standard application API (gnome vs. kde/qt vs. straight qt vs. wxwidgets), the user market just doesn't exist, and that it's difficult to mix the GPL / free software world with expensive development that requires professional UI, design, and art work, and all the other components of a polished end-user product. End-users don't buy 'support'. Of course, this is an unpopular opinion among free software advocates. As soon as you figure out how we can share diagrams that I want to place in my LaTeX documents, interact with artists producing photoshop/illustrator files, and modify complex word documents sent by lawyers without losing required document meta-data -- let me know.
      - dkarl 17y ago
        So Linux works for me and not for you.... Like I said, if Android reaches that point, I'll be happy ;-)
      - _pi 17y ago
        I'd like to see you try to get interoperability between Billings by Marketcircle and Peachtree by Sage, or with Quickbooks and Money Dance. Or by one version of Office and another. What you describe plagues all software. No one gives enough of a shit to make everything interoperable and lazy programmers will always make their own lazy file formats which are undocumented because they are lazy. The problem is how much involvement people have with their code. What is "professional UI"? How is a UI Professional? What qualities make a UI Professional? That's a pretty ambiguous qualifier.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
- _pi 17y ago
  I'd say that Freedom is a good price to fool around, after you break $200 for an iPhone + Contract price, + $100 for SDK, + $1,000 for a basic Macbook for development (AFAIK you can only use Mac to develop for iPhone) you've got a $1,300 investment. I'd think that anyone serious about writing a iPhone program would do it after spending that much capital, however not everyone is willing to spend that much cash to fool around. The difference is that after that level of monetary involvement people want to make it back, or just want to make a product (IE, I spend $1,300 on nothing). However it stops people who wish to make a serious product but don't wish to be so financially involved. IMO, Android hasn't really launched yet, and Google isn't pushing hard enough to counter the iPhone.
  - bkudria 17y ago
    The Mac Mini is a cheaper development box.
    - _pi 17y ago
      Okay so say 600 + 200 + 100 + contract, still well over a thousand for what the kill you with on a contract.
      - tvon 17y ago
        $300-$400 on eBay.
        _pi 17y ago
        The point is even if you get everything used and at eBay pricing, you still have to buy the SDK and you still have to be financially involved.
        deleted 17y ago
        [deleted]
  - icefox 17y ago
    That Macbook can be used for many other things besides iphone development. In fact many developers I know already have a mac so for them it is $0. And unlike the random BestBuy laptop that you can get if you don't like the macbook you can actually sell it and get a good chunk of money back.
- freetard 17y ago
  I use linux as my primary desktop for work and home, I make a nice living, get things done quickly and never ever need to hack anything to make things work (ubuntu+intel laptop). Sure, if you get a laptop that's not linux friendly then it will be harder (to install) but that's not a fair comparison to windows/mac. Try getting a hackintosh to work, it's much harder then getting ubuntu to work on an nvidia/ati+broadcom wifi laptop or even on a mac.
TrevorJ 17y ago
Several of these problems are, or could very well be hardware issues.
DrJokepu 17y ago
(Caution: I'm an Android fanboy) I got two main problems with this article. First, it's mixing the weaknesses of Android with the weaknesses of the G1 hardware. There might not be a lot options available these days when it comes to buying an Android-enabled phone but it looks like this is going to change soon. Secondly, all platforms have their pathologies and obviously Android is no exception, neither is the iPhone. I honestly think this is a fairly unbalanced presentation of Android. How long did you have to wait to get copy and paste working on the iPhone? Can you run multiple apps at the same time on the iPhone? Can you have widgets on the iPhone? What about the well known problems of the iPhone App Store we all hear a lot about these days? And about the hardware: if you have a problem with the non-standard earphone connectors of the G1 (which can be solved by a $5 adapter), what do you think about not being able to replace the battery of an iPhone yourself? You don't have these problems on Android. I'm not trying to bash the iPhone here as I truly believe that it's a great phone, all I'm trying to say that this review isn't really fair and balanced. It's alright to be subjective but still, come on, isn't this a bit too much?
- Periodic 17y ago
  It's pretty obvious that this is written like a rant. He's been trying to get into Android on the G1 but has gotten frustrated. Now he's venting. However, he does point out how many of his issues can be solved and after his list he makes the real point: It's not just one flaw that makes it rough, but rather the general lack of polish. If you're willing to put up with that, like a lot of Linux users did for years, then you will probably like it. But most people would rather things "just work" and so they would rather opt for an iPhone. Sometimes it's the little things that make a lasting impression.
  - Andys 17y ago
    "Many of the issues can be solved" .. that is why I love Android and open platforms in general. You see a problem, you are free to go fix it. No need to wait for Apple.
- jemmons 17y ago
  I know we're not supposed to ding Android for the G1's faults. But it's been, what, over a year and a half since the OHA unveiled the platform? Doesn't Android deserve some blame for being an OS that, in 20 months, only one company has been able to put on one model of one phone? I'm looking forward to all of the new Android devices that are apparently waiting in the wings, but this long downtime hasn't done the platform any favors.
icey 17y ago
I would love to see Android running on some kickass hardware. I'm convinced that's half of why the iPhone is so dominant.
- aitoehigie 17y ago
  i completely agree with that statement, i own both the Google G1 and the iPhone and in the looks department the iphone is "the Beauty" while the G1 is "the Beast". But i still love my iphone because its open to whatever whim i have.
- there 17y ago
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ6It6z05rg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ6It6z05rg also, the t-mobile "mytouch"/g2 that just came out looks to be a nice update to the g1. http://www.t-mobilemytouch.com/ http://www.t-mobilemytouch.com/
- steilpass 17y ago
  Android on the iPhone? Anyone?
elai 17y ago
Actually the fact the G1 uses micro-sd vs internal memory is better, since if all you want is a memory upgrade, you don't need to sell your phone, get a new contract and spends hundreds extra just for that extra 16GB. There are 16GB microSD cards out there, 32GB ones soon to come. The fact you need a headphone adapter is a major pain.
- kleevr 17y ago
  Especially when you want to change the battery and listen to music. Can you use as USB hub? Haven't tried it myself...
  - Andys 17y ago
    There are cheap things on ebay that let you connect both power and headphone at the same time. All the accessories for android are very, very cheap on Ebay: batteries, cables, dongles, cases, charging docks, etc. I personally use a Nokia stereo bluetooth to listen wirelessly so no worries about the headphone socket.
freetard 17y ago
Android is just an OS, no point in saying the G1 is slow as a critic against android. As for the rest, the iPhone OS has its quirks too.
jpwagner 17y ago
"The browser just isn’t up to the standard of the iPhone’s." Helpful.
metachris 17y ago
(I'm developing software for Android and i want to add my point of view regarding the Android market and the apps) The author complains about sloppy apps that sometimes work, sometimes not. I see it the way that the Google/Android approach is even more revolutionary than the one of iPhone, especially for independent developers. They do not have manual reviews of apps.(!) Any developer can just go to the market website, create a new project, add a description and the bundle and click on "publish" -- it's immediately available on the market for users around the world -- and it's up to the users to judge it's quality. Think of it -- no manual reviews -- no approval process. It's a lot of freedom! (in particular if you think about all the iPhone approval process problems we hear of each week) If the app is poorly executed, it will receive lower ratings and go down the "by date" list without ever being seen again. If it is alright the users vote it up and often leave comments, indicating that it works and hinting at things that could be improved. Apps can really quickly climb the "by popularity" list, so if well made, are seen by a larger number of people. Therefore for me it's excusable if some apps don't work perfectly, especially because they are having lower ratings and a lot of comments complaining -- all things one knows of before installing. Finally I think that the apps are _currently_ of a lower overall quality for a variety of reasons, one being the kinda small user-base compared to the iPhone -- i mean it's like 45 million vs. 1.5 m! :P Around 20 new Android phones were announced for this year, all with a better performance than the G1. This game will be very interesting to follow over the following 5 years (and more). Android is here to stay, and will certainly become more equivalent to the iPhone and it's immense market share over time.
s3graham 17y ago
> I can’t listen to music on it. It won’t sync with iTunes Wow, is that really true for most people these days? I had no idea. TBH, that's the #1 reason I haven't got an iPhone yet.
shimi 17y ago
I'll be happy if people will start blogging about how they like things instead of how they don't. I can write a few lines about Blackberry, iPhone, S60, Android but it won't get me anywhere, apart from spreading bad Karma
c0nsilience 17y ago
The HTC Hero is probably the best Android device on the market right now. HTC did an incredible job making Android more usable and attractive with Sense UI, much like TouchFlo 3D for Windows Mobile. I have a hard time liking Android, in addition to all the reasons in the article, because it is just not a very attractive UI. Sense fixes that a bit and actually makes me want a Hero now.

56 points by pclark 17y ago

it's new. it's not iphone. you can't compare an incumbent frontrun technology with a community playing catch up. if you can't see why android is better and will be more successful than iphone then it's not for you.

gamache 17y ago

I love the closing statement: Linux vs Windows/MacOS, all over again. You gain Freedom by using an open platform, making life worse for yourself in a thousand tiny ways, any one of which can easily be dismissed, so they are. But it’s still worse. Zing. I recognize exactly what the author is talking about.

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
tc 17y ago
I recognize what he's talking about too, but having given both sides a serious whirl, my life is still definitely better for free software. Years ago Linux desktop usage was a bit of a drag. But at the time, Windows servers were so much worse that as an integrated system, you were still net ahead. Now that my printers, scanners, and peripherals have all worked without hassle for years there isn't even a trade off. Rather, I shake my head while watching people fight with driver wizard CDs.
- dkarl 17y ago
  I agree. Desktop Linux is a great source of hope for struggling platforms. Even if it isn't for Aunt Millie, it has gone from being embarrassingly bad to being [a couple of] my favorite desktop environment[s]. Here's hoping Android follows the same trajectory. (It's certainly starting in the same place.)
  - antonovka 17y ago
    Linux is only a reasonable desktop if you're only spending your time in a terminal, using emacs/vi/eclipse/netbeans/etc. Before moving to Mac OS X from Linux/BSD desktops, I failed to appreciate the value of polished, non-developer software. Now, I regularly tear my hair out trying to interact with Linux users. From diagram software (OmniGraffle/Visio) to accounting software (QuickBooks) to billing software (Billings by Marketcircle), Linux just doesn't have the solid, polished applications, and it interoperates exceptionally poorly in environments where Mac OS X and Windows get along just fine. For example -- I can easily share diagrams with Visio users, but Dia is not a replacement for Visio/OmniGraffle and won't do the trick. How am I supposed to diagram with Linux users? Use dot/graphviz and create remarkably ugly diagrams? If I had to assign blame for the lack of quality applications, I'd say that the APIs are unstable and inconsistent, there's no standard application API (gnome vs. kde/qt vs. straight qt vs. wxwidgets), the user market just doesn't exist, and that it's difficult to mix the GPL / free software world with expensive development that requires professional UI, design, and art work, and all the other components of a polished end-user product. End-users don't buy 'support'. Of course, this is an unpopular opinion among free software advocates. As soon as you figure out how we can share diagrams that I want to place in my LaTeX documents, interact with artists producing photoshop/illustrator files, and modify complex word documents sent by lawyers without losing required document meta-data -- let me know.
    - dkarl 17y ago
      So Linux works for me and not for you.... Like I said, if Android reaches that point, I'll be happy ;-)
    - _pi 17y ago
      I'd like to see you try to get interoperability between Billings by Marketcircle and Peachtree by Sage, or with Quickbooks and Money Dance. Or by one version of Office and another. What you describe plagues all software. No one gives enough of a shit to make everything interoperable and lazy programmers will always make their own lazy file formats which are undocumented because they are lazy. The problem is how much involvement people have with their code. What is "professional UI"? How is a UI Professional? What qualities make a UI Professional? That's a pretty ambiguous qualifier.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
_pi 17y ago
I'd say that Freedom is a good price to fool around, after you break $200 for an iPhone + Contract price, + $100 for SDK, + $1,000 for a basic Macbook for development (AFAIK you can only use Mac to develop for iPhone) you've got a $1,300 investment. I'd think that anyone serious about writing a iPhone program would do it after spending that much capital, however not everyone is willing to spend that much cash to fool around. The difference is that after that level of monetary involvement people want to make it back, or just want to make a product (IE, I spend $1,300 on nothing). However it stops people who wish to make a serious product but don't wish to be so financially involved. IMO, Android hasn't really launched yet, and Google isn't pushing hard enough to counter the iPhone.
- bkudria 17y ago
  The Mac Mini is a cheaper development box.
  - _pi 17y ago
    Okay so say 600 + 200 + 100 + contract, still well over a thousand for what the kill you with on a contract.
    - tvon 17y ago
      $300-$400 on eBay.
      - _pi 17y ago
        The point is even if you get everything used and at eBay pricing, you still have to buy the SDK and you still have to be financially involved.
        deleted 17y ago
        [deleted]
- icefox 17y ago
  That Macbook can be used for many other things besides iphone development. In fact many developers I know already have a mac so for them it is $0. And unlike the random BestBuy laptop that you can get if you don't like the macbook you can actually sell it and get a good chunk of money back.
freetard 17y ago
I use linux as my primary desktop for work and home, I make a nice living, get things done quickly and never ever need to hack anything to make things work (ubuntu+intel laptop). Sure, if you get a laptop that's not linux friendly then it will be harder (to install) but that's not a fair comparison to windows/mac. Try getting a hackintosh to work, it's much harder then getting ubuntu to work on an nvidia/ati+broadcom wifi laptop or even on a mac.

TrevorJ 17y ago

Several of these problems are, or could very well be hardware issues.

DrJokepu 17y ago

(Caution: I'm an Android fanboy) I got two main problems with this article. First, it's mixing the weaknesses of Android with the weaknesses of the G1 hardware. There might not be a lot options available these days when it comes to buying an Android-enabled phone but it looks like this is going to change soon. Secondly, all platforms have their pathologies and obviously Android is no exception, neither is the iPhone. I honestly think this is a fairly unbalanced presentation of Android. How long did you have to wait to get copy and paste working on the iPhone? Can you run multiple apps at the same time on the iPhone? Can you have widgets on the iPhone? What about the well known problems of the iPhone App Store we all hear a lot about these days? And about the hardware: if you have a problem with the non-standard earphone connectors of the G1 (which can be solved by a $5 adapter), what do you think about not being able to replace the battery of an iPhone yourself? You don't have these problems on Android. I'm not trying to bash the iPhone here as I truly believe that it's a great phone, all I'm trying to say that this review isn't really fair and balanced. It's alright to be subjective but still, come on, isn't this a bit too much?

Periodic 17y ago
It's pretty obvious that this is written like a rant. He's been trying to get into Android on the G1 but has gotten frustrated. Now he's venting. However, he does point out how many of his issues can be solved and after his list he makes the real point: It's not just one flaw that makes it rough, but rather the general lack of polish. If you're willing to put up with that, like a lot of Linux users did for years, then you will probably like it. But most people would rather things "just work" and so they would rather opt for an iPhone. Sometimes it's the little things that make a lasting impression.
- Andys 17y ago
  "Many of the issues can be solved" .. that is why I love Android and open platforms in general. You see a problem, you are free to go fix it. No need to wait for Apple.
jemmons 17y ago
I know we're not supposed to ding Android for the G1's faults. But it's been, what, over a year and a half since the OHA unveiled the platform? Doesn't Android deserve some blame for being an OS that, in 20 months, only one company has been able to put on one model of one phone? I'm looking forward to all of the new Android devices that are apparently waiting in the wings, but this long downtime hasn't done the platform any favors.

icey 17y ago

I would love to see Android running on some kickass hardware. I'm convinced that's half of why the iPhone is so dominant.

aitoehigie 17y ago
i completely agree with that statement, i own both the Google G1 and the iPhone and in the looks department the iphone is "the Beauty" while the G1 is "the Beast". But i still love my iphone because its open to whatever whim i have.
there 17y ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ6It6z05rg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ6It6z05rg also, the t-mobile "mytouch"/g2 that just came out looks to be a nice update to the g1. http://www.t-mobilemytouch.com/ http://www.t-mobilemytouch.com/
steilpass 17y ago
Android on the iPhone? Anyone?

elai 17y ago

Actually the fact the G1 uses micro-sd vs internal memory is better, since if all you want is a memory upgrade, you don't need to sell your phone, get a new contract and spends hundreds extra just for that extra 16GB. There are 16GB microSD cards out there, 32GB ones soon to come. The fact you need a headphone adapter is a major pain.

kleevr 17y ago
Especially when you want to change the battery and listen to music. Can you use as USB hub? Haven't tried it myself...
- Andys 17y ago
  There are cheap things on ebay that let you connect both power and headphone at the same time. All the accessories for android are very, very cheap on Ebay: batteries, cables, dongles, cases, charging docks, etc. I personally use a Nokia stereo bluetooth to listen wirelessly so no worries about the headphone socket.

freetard 17y ago

Android is just an OS, no point in saying the G1 is slow as a critic against android. As for the rest, the iPhone OS has its quirks too.

jpwagner 17y ago

"The browser just isn’t up to the standard of the iPhone’s." Helpful.

metachris 17y ago

(I'm developing software for Android and i want to add my point of view regarding the Android market and the apps) The author complains about sloppy apps that sometimes work, sometimes not. I see it the way that the Google/Android approach is even more revolutionary than the one of iPhone, especially for independent developers. They do not have manual reviews of apps.(!) Any developer can just go to the market website, create a new project, add a description and the bundle and click on "publish" -- it's immediately available on the market for users around the world -- and it's up to the users to judge it's quality. Think of it -- no manual reviews -- no approval process. It's a lot of freedom! (in particular if you think about all the iPhone approval process problems we hear of each week) If the app is poorly executed, it will receive lower ratings and go down the "by date" list without ever being seen again. If it is alright the users vote it up and often leave comments, indicating that it works and hinting at things that could be improved. Apps can really quickly climb the "by popularity" list, so if well made, are seen by a larger number of people. Therefore for me it's excusable if some apps don't work perfectly, especially because they are having lower ratings and a lot of comments complaining -- all things one knows of before installing. Finally I think that the apps are _currently_ of a lower overall quality for a variety of reasons, one being the kinda small user-base compared to the iPhone -- i mean it's like 45 million vs. 1.5 m! :P Around 20 new Android phones were announced for this year, all with a better performance than the G1. This game will be very interesting to follow over the following 5 years (and more). Android is here to stay, and will certainly become more equivalent to the iPhone and it's immense market share over time.

s3graham 17y ago

> I can’t listen to music on it. It won’t sync with iTunes Wow, is that really true for most people these days? I had no idea. TBH, that's the #1 reason I haven't got an iPhone yet.

shimi 17y ago

I'll be happy if people will start blogging about how they like things instead of how they don't. I can write a few lines about Blackberry, iPhone, S60, Android but it won't get me anywhere, apart from spreading bad Karma

c0nsilience 17y ago

The HTC Hero is probably the best Android device on the market right now. HTC did an incredible job making Android more usable and attractive with Sense UI, much like TouchFlo 3D for Windows Mobile. I have a hard time liking Android, in addition to all the reasons in the article, because it is just not a very attractive UI. Sense fixes that a bit and actually makes me want a Hero now.