4 ms·

I'm of two minds about this: being moderately competent in C++ (my bread and butter language), and a dabbler and True Believer in Better Languages (ala the blub

I'm of two minds about this: being moderately competent in C++ (my bread and butter language), and a dabbler and True Believer in Better Languages (ala the blub paradox), I think it might be nice and neat to have more high level features in C++ (yay lambdas in C++11x!). On the other hand, C++ is already a mess. It's not even a beautiful mess, but it is a very functioning mess. Adding more stuff to it just seems like heaping more things on top of a pile that's already falling over in pieces. Granted, like most everything else in C++, it will probably be optional, and hey, if nothing else, having more (optional) features is very pragmatic.

danabramov 13y ago
It's not about a language feature, is it?
jbeja 13y ago
I wonder what programming language is not a mess?
- steveklabnik 13y ago
  I'll just state the obvious: Scheme. ;)
  - eru 13y ago
    And Unlambda. Joking aside, Haskell is pretty pleasant to program in most of the time.
    - letzjuc 13y ago
      forcing strict evaluation feels like a mess, template haskell feels like a mess, debugging space leaks feels like a mess, not to mention that the haskell learning curve is very high Haskell is pretty good at a lot of things, so don't misunderstand me, Haskell it's really good! But, at the same time, it still has lots of room for improvement. I guess perfection doesn't exist.
      - eru 13y ago
        Oh, there's room for improvement. I guess we just used different standards for `mess'. I think something like http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1446 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1446 could be the way forward. (And would be achievable from Haskell with enough work.)
  - jbeja 13y ago
    Everyone and their grandma recommends me Scheme, but i am more willing to try a lisp that i can actually use in production like Clojure, i don't know.
    - pekk 13y ago
      Why is Scheme unusable for production?
      - jbeja 13y ago
        I wouldn't even think where i would use it, can you enlighten me?
    - steveklabnik 13y ago
      The assertion was "not a mess," not "usable in production." ;)
      - jbeja 13y ago
        Touché ;).
    - WildUtah 13y ago
      Scheme with the batteries included: http://racket-lang.org/ http://racket-lang.org/
- marcosdumay 13y ago
  The ones that nobody improves. Either because they are new, because nobody use them, or because they are LISP. I really don't like how no lisper thinks it's a good idea to improve LISP, but it's this way.
- username42 13y ago
  Ada is not a mess. C89 was not a mess. Almost all languages become a mess when the become older or when standard committees are involved. For C++ it was a mess very early. After C++98, it was an awful mess of compiler incompatibilities. Strangely, a usable language seems to have recently emerged from this mess.

danabramov 13y ago

It's not about a language feature, is it?

jbeja 13y ago

I wonder what programming language is not a mess?

steveklabnik 13y ago
I'll just state the obvious: Scheme. ;)
- eru 13y ago
  And Unlambda. Joking aside, Haskell is pretty pleasant to program in most of the time.
  - letzjuc 13y ago
    forcing strict evaluation feels like a mess, template haskell feels like a mess, debugging space leaks feels like a mess, not to mention that the haskell learning curve is very high Haskell is pretty good at a lot of things, so don't misunderstand me, Haskell it's really good! But, at the same time, it still has lots of room for improvement. I guess perfection doesn't exist.
    - eru 13y ago
      Oh, there's room for improvement. I guess we just used different standards for `mess'. I think something like http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1446 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1446 could be the way forward. (And would be achievable from Haskell with enough work.)
- jbeja 13y ago
  Everyone and their grandma recommends me Scheme, but i am more willing to try a lisp that i can actually use in production like Clojure, i don't know.
  - pekk 13y ago
    Why is Scheme unusable for production?
    - jbeja 13y ago
      I wouldn't even think where i would use it, can you enlighten me?
  - steveklabnik 13y ago
    The assertion was "not a mess," not "usable in production." ;)
    - jbeja 13y ago
      Touché ;).
  - WildUtah 13y ago
    Scheme with the batteries included: http://racket-lang.org/ http://racket-lang.org/
marcosdumay 13y ago
The ones that nobody improves. Either because they are new, because nobody use them, or because they are LISP. I really don't like how no lisper thinks it's a good idea to improve LISP, but it's this way.
username42 13y ago
Ada is not a mess. C89 was not a mess. Almost all languages become a mess when the become older or when standard committees are involved. For C++ it was a mess very early. After C++98, it was an awful mess of compiler incompatibilities. Strangely, a usable language seems to have recently emerged from this mess.