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Obama's Trauma Team: Inside the Nightmare Launch of HealthCare.Gov
- nimz 13y agoHealthCare.gov is definitely NOT fixed or "revived" yet. I was trying to register for healthcare for the Feb 15th deadline and there were errors after errors. At the end, after hours of trying and waiting on hold for the tech help-line, I was not able to register at all and missed the deadline. The help-line's answer was, we are still working out the kinks, please print out the PDF and fill it out manually. It's still a disaster-show.
- brandonb 13y agoYep, in spite of the progress made since October (when the site was entirely down for days at a time), there are absolutely still problems. I also see you're a YC alum! If you're interested in helping out, or just to provide an error report on the problem you encountered, email me at brandon@hcgov.us.
- argumentum 13y agoDo you have any involvement with the individual State websites? I've had so many technical problems registering in California.
- brandonb 13y agoUnfortunately not. :( I'm a California resident -- although living temporarily in Maryland for the project -- and have gotten the same reports of technical problems. To give some background, 36 states use the federal marketplace, and 14 built their own. Covered California is run by the state of California, with an independent contracting company, codebase, set of servers, etc. We do have some ideas about how to improve that situation over the long term, but those will take time to bear fruit.
- MartinCron 13y agoJust want to chime in and say thanks for your comments in this thread, getting a behind-the-scenes on what might be the highest-profile software project fiasco ever is really cool.
- probablyfiction 13y agoThis link takes you to page 10. Annoying.
- j_s 13y agohttp://content.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,2166770,00.html http://content.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,2166770,00.html
- sbhere 13y agoThis article is paginated. Annoying. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4605904 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4605904 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3763907 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3763907
- MrZongle2 13y ago"Revived" is probably the right term to use. A clinically-dead patient can be revived, but the condition they're in is far from OK.
- edabobojr 13y agoOne question I have - were the high-tech wizards paid standard gsa rates? https://www.gsaadvantage.gov/ref_text/GS35F5457H/0LUS2P.2NVKCH_GS-35F-5457H_GS35F5457HGPLOY.PDF https://www.gsaadvantage.gov/ref_text/GS35F5457H/0LUS2P.2NVK... Page 25. Top developer rate for 2014 is $99/hr which requires 10 years of experience.
- mikeash 13y agoWould explain a lot if so. Any developer you can get for that rate who has been working for 10 years likely does not have 10 years of experience, but 1 year of experience repeated 10 times.
- qdog 13y ago40x99x50=~$200k/year. That doesn't seem unreasonable compensation, what am I missing?
- diminoten 13y agoThat $99 goes to the contractor, not the employee. There's a ton of overhead and profiting that comes out of that $99. I won't even hazard a guess at how much of that $99 actually makes it to the guy or gal's pocket. That said, it's not a bad living wage. I suspect below industry standard though, is what these folks are saying.
- qdog 13y agoAh, I thought it was a direct contract with the government, not a contracted person from an agency, my mistake. Of course, I guess I should have assumed that, there aren't many direct government jobs for this type of thing anymore, it seems.
- mikeash 13y agoYep, the government contracts out to a gigantic company who then "hires" you and has you work on the thing, and takes half the money in exchange for doing not a whole lot. It's a sad system.
- SpikeDad 13y agoTitle = No view. It's not "Obama's" website. It's the Federal Government's website. Or the Dept of Health's Website or, etc, etc, etc. Using Obama for link bait means your article gets no reads from me.
- GhostHardware 13y agoThat's how the article is titled on Time's website "Obama's Trauma Team"
- api 13y agoWizards? It's an e-commerce web site. This is baby stuff, even at scale.
- d23 13y agoNo it isn't. You're talking about interfacing with hundreds of existing insurance systems. It would be a nightmare.
- smokinjoe 13y agoPCI Compliance can be a nightmare. I don't even want to imagine HIPAA compliance for something of this magnitude.
- erichocean 13y agoIt's not HIPPA compliant. Really, did you think the government follows its own rules? Get real.
- smokinjoe 13y agoI guess you can call me naive. ..and slightly ignorant regarding this HIPAA kerfuffle that popped up. I did some quick [hilarious] research that resulted in an issue where commented copy was being used as an indicator that there was to be no sense of privacy on the website. source: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/oct/29/joe-barton/healthcaregov-users-waive-any-reasonable-right-pri/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/oct/... I'm not entirely sure that's what you're referencing or whether you're just bein' a smart aleck, but I had some fun reading up on the story. I also learned that the website healthcare.gov doesn't necessarily need as much HIPAA compliance as I had initially anticipated. To enroll, the only 'medical' type data you need to include is whether you are a smoker or not - I thought there would be much more sensitive information right off the bat.
- pella 13y agoDickerson rules: "Rule 1: "The war room and the meetings are for solving problems. There are plenty of other venues where people devote their creative energies to shifting blame." Rule 2: "The ones who should be doing the talking are the people who know the most about an issue, not the ones with the highest rank. If anyone finds themselves sitting passively while managers and executives talk over them with less accurate information, we have gone off the rails, and I would like to know about it." (Explained Dickerson later: "If you can get the managers out of the way, the engineers will want to solve things.") Rule 3: "We need to stay focused on the most urgent issues, like things that will hurt us in the next 24--48 hours." "
- wil421 13y agoThis! Rule 2. I sit in meetings weekly with mangers discussing issues that I know about the most but I can never get them to hear me out.
- baseten 13y agoRule #1: Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!
- lutusp 13y agoI wonder how many readers will recognize this famous quotation and its source. (long pause ...) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Strangelove http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Strangelove
- goggles99 13y ago>How an unlikely group of high-tech wizards revived Obama's troubled HealthCare.gov website How? With another 14 million dollars... that is how. You can do a lot of things with 14 million dollars, this is not especially true when you are talking about the govt spending this kind of money, but still - it is not pocket change to the average company. http://www.nextgov.com/cloud-computing/2014/02/cost-obamacare-contract-has-least-quintupled/79202/?oref=ng-HPtopstory http://www.nextgov.com/cloud-computing/2014/02/cost-obamacar...
- uncre4tive 13y agoHow come the headline is dated in the future, March 10th 2014?
- Phlarp 13y agoThis article is likely set to "officially" release in the March edition of Time. Just a fragment of old media leaking onto the internet.
- SilasX 13y agoFalsehoods programmers believe about time #80: "Created" dates will all be in the past. http://infiniteundo.com/post/25509354022/more-falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-time-wisdom http://infiniteundo.com/post/25509354022/more-falsehoods-pro...
- jobu 13y agoWow! They weren't even caching database calls: HealthCare.gov had been constructed so that every time a user had to get information from the website's vast database, the website had to make what's called a query into that database. Well-constructed, high-volume sites, especially e-commerce sites, will instead store or assemble the most frequently accessed information in a layer above the entire database, called a cache. It also struck me as a little funny that Time had to define the term 'cache'. Even my mom (74 years old) has some idea what a cache is (browser cache).
- SilasX 13y agoThey also treated "query" as a special technical term[1], which is in common usage even more so, and which means ... about what the average person would expect it to mean, "but on a computer". [1] "make what's called a query into" instead of just "query"
- UweSchmidt 13y agoI love technically correct, yet understandable definitions, formulated concisely and friendly. Especially in areas where I have expert knowledge, a definition like that gives me reference on what the general knowledge is, and teaches me to articulate my knowledge better.
- dragontamer 13y agohttp://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue/2009/05/07/115945-mexico-s-weapons-cache-stymies-tracing/ http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue/2009/05/07/115945-mexico-s-w... Depends on what industry you work in. A Cache may look more like a giant pile of weapons as opposed to some memory in a computer.
- saraid216 13y agoEh, it's not industry-dependent so much as industries have specific reductions. A cache is long-term storage. The weapons industry would expect it to be filled with weapons, and maybe some body armor. A scouting party would expect tools for equipment repair, rations, and maybe some minor comfort gear. A computer scientist would expect it to be full of bytes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cache http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cache http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=cache&allowed_in_frame=0 http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=cache&allowed_in_fr...
- Glide 13y agoBut one lesson of the fall and rise of HealthCare.gov has to be that the practice of awarding high-tech, high-stakes contracts to companies whose primary skill seems to be getting those contracts rather than delivering on them has to change. If this happens the entire contracting landscape of DC would change dramatically.
- pdeuchler 13y ago>> "It is also a story of an Obama Administration obsessed with health care reform policy but above the nitty-gritty of implementing it. No one in the White House meetings leading up to the launch had any idea whether the technology worked." I used to be this guy. The guy with the lofty ideas, but who thought the implementation was "beneath me". The guy who would sit around, waxing poetic about various features, user acquisition, header alignment, etc. Don't get me wrong I had serious technical chops, but fixing that annoying localization bug? Blegh. Form encoding off? Don't wanna get my hands dirty. I had "big ideas"! I was going to change the world! People who change the world don't do the dirty work! So I'm very empathetic to the Obama Administration. Like them, I needed a real wake up call. In my case, a friend who had implemented an idea I had sold the software for a lot of money. When I confronted him about sharing the profits he started running git blame on files across the project. My name came up maybe once or twice, across a multi-k LOC project, and even then on nearly inconsequential lines. It hit me then that while ideas may have value, the implementation usurps all of it. An idea alone is powerful, but once it's implemented the idea becomes worthless. At that point it's all about rolling up your sleeves and getting shit done. When you focus on that problems like an "ID generator" becoming a bottleneck (I had to read that bit several times over... apparently I need to start raising my rates to the hundreds of millions) disappear. It's a hard lesson I had to learn, and it's one the Obama administration has hopefully learned as well. Of course, I had just turned 17 when I learned my lesson, and Obama is now a lame duck with less than 2 years left on his final term. I guess this exemplifies my greatest struggle with the Obama legacy, in that it has become one defined by squandered potential.
- JonFish85 13y ago>It hit me then that while ideas may have value, the implementation usurps all of it. An idea alone is powerful, but once it's implemented the idea becomes worthless. You need both. Implementation people aren't all that useful without a vision. A vision isn't all that useful without implementation. It's a symbiotic relationship. Steve Jobs without a Steve Wozniak probably wouldn't have been as successful. Steve Wozniak, without Steve Jobs, probably wouldn't have been as successful. But the two put together made some great things happen. Same with the moon landing. As much as it took a tremendous engineering effort to put a man on the moon, it took someone with the vision and power to make it all work. JFK didn't get involved in the details, I'm sure, but he really helped to set the tone of the whole effort. There's a fine line between looking at implementation as "beneath" your position and knowing when you're being more of a hindrance than a help. In my experience, nothing has driven me more crazy than a person above me who, while being a great project manager or whatever, tries to get involved with things that end up hindering the effort. If you take a weekend course on programming in Java, that's great! But don't start giving out "helpful" tips in something that is not your domain.
- dannyr 13y agoI heard that several people from YC startups and Google are helping out. This is one of the reasons why we're seeing a lot of improvements to the Federal Exchange site.
- aristus 13y agoA friend of mine, from Facebook's networking team, also spent a month there. He came back with a thousand-yard stare.
- laz 13y agoThe environment takes a toll on everyone, some more than others. The things I've seen ... you cannot un-see ;)
- angersock 13y agoYeah, I wonder if anybody has done studies on the psychological damage of developers working on shitty accumulated cruft? It's definitely a form of mental dissonance.
- sailfast 13y agoThis is the case across billions of taxpayer dollars worth of IT systems in hundreds of agencies, but many of the contractors don't realize the insanity they generate and the stares they have caused. The government needs a lot of help. I wish there were more crisis opportunities like this to use as an excuse to hire the right team to build good systems for citizens. Tough to get systems integration above the fold regularly to call attention to the issue.
- aryastark 13y agothere is apparently a generational gap here. There are people that have read The Mythical Man-Month, and then there are people that go and re-live it.
- nobodysfool 13y agoYea I don't get why we romanticize working long hours and crunch time / overtime. If they would have worked standard 8 hour days things probably would have gotten better faster. In my opinion, working more than 8 hours a day tells me that you're wasting time.
- n0rb3rt 13y agohttp://www.civisanalytics.com/pages/civis-uninsured http://www.civisanalytics.com/pages/civis-uninsured
- grumps 13y agoWhat's up with the date on this article `Monday, Mar. 10, 2014`
- jfc 13y ago> the people running HealthCare.gov had no "dashboard," no quick way for engineers to measure what was going on at the website Someone needs to disrupt the government contracts business pronto.
- sp332 13y agoCGI Federal is a Canadian company that won a no-bid contract to build the site. Good luck disrupting anything; the system doesn't even pretend to be competitive and it's designed to keep incumbents in power.
- GVIrish 13y agoTo be more accurate, CGI Federal won a contract vehicle that allowed task orders to be given to them under said vehicle without doing a full bidding process. It would be like having a services contract with a company and giving them multiple projects under that contract. Awarding work in this way isn't necessarily a mistake. But when the selection process itself is broken, you end up giving a lot of work over time to a contractor that can't do the work. Even then, a lot of the problems with Healthcare.gov were caused by incompetence on the government side of things.
- smacktoward 13y agoThese folks are trying: http://www.dobt.co/ http://www.dobt.co/ It's an incredibly difficult thing to do, though. Procurement practices that are enshrined in law are much harder to disrupt than those that are just bad habits that ossified over time.
- saraid216 13y agoThere are ways to deal with things that are enshrined in law. Building a corporation is unlikely to be the right way to do it.
- mildtrepidation 13y agoThis is not the "business that happens in a vacuum or at least on the level of normal capitalism" "business" or industry you seem to think it is. I know people who are involved in this. Just being able to bid takes decades and a network you either can't buy or need to be very rich to buy into. It takes either already being there or finding excellent bonuses (e.g. the kind of benefits that come with setting up your business in Detroit). And then you have to compete with the entrenched interests. This is, or at least can be, far down the ladder from Lockheed-Martin. But it's the same kind of environment: If you're already there, it's easy money. If you're not, it almost certainly out of your league. If you know how to play the game, you still need to know the right people. If you do know the right people, you need to grease their palms. And once you've done that, you're part of the problem. "Someone needs to disrupt x" is a magically simplistic and meaningless point of view.
- brandonb 13y agoI've been working on healthcare.gov for the last few months alongside a bunch of other Google, Facebook, and Y Combinator alums. I'll always remember what Mikey told us in December, after the site was back up, could handle a non-trivial amount of traffic, and people who wanted health insurance could finally get it: "1 in 1000 uninsured people die each year. It's not an exaggeration to say that due to the work we're doing here, 5,000-10,000 people will live to see the end of 2014. You should be proud of what you've done, but we should also all be grateful to have this opportunity." We're all grateful to be here, but there's a hell of a lot more work to be done. If any of you out there are an amazing software engineer or SRE, and want to help make our government work better, please shoot me an email: brandon@hcgov.us!
- wooter 13y ago"1 in 1000 uninsured people die each year. It's not an exaggeration to say that due to the work we're doing here, 5,000-10,000 people will live to see the end of 2014. You should be proud of what you've done, but we should also all be grateful to have this opportunity." Hospitals don't let uninsured people die and insuring people doesn't magically save their lives.
- brandonb 13y agoAn estimated 26,000 people die each year due to lack of insurance coverage. That's part of the reason the Affordable Care Act was passed. For more information, see this Reuters article from 2012: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/20/us-usa-healthcare-deaths-idUSBRE85J15720120620 http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/20/us-usa-healthcare-...
- at-fates-hands 13y agoToo bad the people who actually need it, are not signing up. Not to mention the people who HAD coverage are now getting cut off of their insurance and forced into the exchanges. A complete failure anyway you look at it. http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/01/18/coverage-expansion-fail-less-than-one-third-of-obamacare-exchange-enrollees-were-previously-uninsured/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/01/18/coverag... "Instead of expanding coverage to those without it, Obamacare is replacing the pre-existing market for private insurance. Surveys from insurers and other industry players indicate that as few as 11 percent of those on Obamacare’s exchanges were previously uninsured" But wait a minute! Obamacare was supposed to cut my rates my $2,500 A YEAR right? WRONG. Apparently, it still costs too much for the people who really need it: "Of those that didn’t sign up for Obamacare-based coverage, 52 percent stated that “affordability” was their biggest complaint with the exchanges’ plan offerings. Only 30 percent cited “technical challenges in buying the plans.” "Joan Budden, chief marketing officer at Priority Health, told Wilde and Mathews that Michigan’s health insurers had expected 400,000 uninsured Michiganders to enroll in exchange based plans during the initial enrollment year. According to the latest data from the Obama administration, as of December 28, only 75,511 had “selected a marketplace plan.” Of those, only an unknown fraction had paid their first month’s premium, and therefore were actually enrolled in new health coverage." So if this is such a success, why isn't the White House trumpeting the real numbers of people who've signed up then?? http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/4/white-house-sees-obamacare-working-wont-release-fi/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/4/white-house-s... "For the fourth day in a row, the Obama administration on Friday declined to release figures on how many Americans have purchased health insurance through the just-opened online markets tied to the new health care law. White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters that millions of people have visited the federal HealthCare.gov site, which directs people to coverage options, but he did not have “specific data” at this early stage in the enrollment period." There are better ways to do this than handing over 1/3 of our economy over to the Federal Government. You want competition? You can start by letting insurance companies deal across state lines. More competition, increased quality of care, lower costs and better care for everyone.
- mgkimsal 13y agoI have a hard time believing that no one anywhere on the original teams understood that caching database calls was good/standard practice. I think even basic examples like that point out the lack of management problem. I can easily envision someone on the team bringing up basic data caching and getting overruled by other people on the team for trivial/stupid/political reasons. With no proper or clear management in place, there's no one to take this stuff to.
- untog 13y agoOr just a lack of testing. There's no way to know how many database calls are too many without actually testing the damn thing.
- shpiel 13y agoWhat type of database did they use? What type of caching would be desirable? Most modern RDBSes, like Postgre, Oracle, or Microsoft SQL server, have internal LRU caching already implemented. InnoDB tries to store everything in memory. I wonder if they meant that the default caching was turned off, or that all the queries had "no cache" clauses, or that an additional caching layer (Redis, Memcached) was not implemented?
- watwut 13y agoThey used markLogic NoSQL store http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2013/12/03/healthcare-govs-heart-beats-for-nosql/ http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2013/12/03/healthcare-govs-heart-be... Just for the record, contractor did not wanted to use it and argued the team have no experience with it. Someone in government decided it must be done that way (in spring or summer).
- hga 13y agoYeah, a database with an unfamiliar paradigm in a project with late and constantly changing requirements, a major one of "no window shopping" in August, and others through the week before launch, is an obvious recipe for an extra big disaster. Some people have theorized that Accenture's new role is to quietly replace much of the current code base with their not quite so horrible California exchange code.
- rjzzleep 13y agothink about it this way. you have a bunch of technically unsavvy people, because they have been working in government contracts forever. now you come along, and say hey i could build this for you for much less money, and much better. how in the heavens would he know that you can deliver? you'll choose the one you'll know at least. and since he has documents to back him up(mcse, mcsa, he might have worked for microsoft for a while). he's the obvious choice. i worked for the government in healthcare for a while. these are not intentionally malicious people. hell, they even want to make it better, but it's a combination of regulation(bidding system that favors friends), lack of knowledge, and a little bit of ignorance. but if you want more details feel free to ask. it was kind of fun to see a corruption case close up.
- akoumjian 13y agoI am still frequently getting errors when trying to sign up. Every few days I get a little further in the process, only to get a random 500 when performing some next operation.
- tunesmith 13y agoIt's a great article, but this last line drives me crazy: "But in the end [the President] was as aloof from the people and facts he needed to avoid this catastrophe as he was from the people who ended up fixing it." It sounded to me more like he was trusting people whose job it was to deliver. So his failure to micromanage is somehow being "aloof". Never pass up an opportunity to reinforce a media meme, I guess.
- twoodfin 13y agoThis was the signature accomplishment of his first term and a substantial part of his legacy as President. He was out on the hustings making speech after speech about how buying health insurance on the exchange was going to be as easy as shopping for a plane ticket on Expedia. It would not have been "micromanaging" for him to have done what was necessary to be sure that what he was saying matched up with reality. Yes, it was a giant IT project of the sort governments usually suck at. But that was the bill he got passed and signed. If his administration wasn't capable of leading that project to successful, timely completion, he has to shoulder much of the blame.
- watwut 13y agoMy understanding is that bad news did not bubbled up. They stayed hidden and that one is cultural problem.Instead of president being informed that project will be late, programmers were informed that failure is not an option. Turned out it was an option. Cultural problems like this are often caused by leadership. Whether you will be told bad news depends a lot on your management style and on people you decide to work with. You do not have to micromanage, but if they are scared to tell you the truth, then it is often your own fault.
- gopi 13y agoReading this strengthened my belief in the limited government
- pjscott 13y agoAnything too big to fail is scary. What if it fails?
- PhasmaFelis 13y agoI'd really like to see a proper postmortem of the launch problems. Read about how it got fixed is nice, but I want a detailed account of how such an important project with the direct attention of the U.S. President managed to get fucked so absolutely.
- warrenmiller 13y agoDoes that article say 'Monday, Mar. 10, 2014' for anyone else?
- futurist 13y agoCorrelation, causation, blah blah blah. There are people who pocketed a lot of taxpayer money creating the healthcare.gov failboat, and no one is being held accountable. That's my takeaway from the article.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- chocosoes 13y agothis may sound stupid but i'm just wondering why the article is dated in the future (Mar 10, 2014)? we're on even on March 3 yet, and yet its there http://search.time.com/results.html?N=46&Ns=p_date_range|1 http://search.time.com/results.html?N=46&Ns=p_date_range|1 I'm not a regular time magazine reader, am I missing something here?
- Mvandenbergh 13y agoMagazine articles are usually dated to the print edition they appear in.
- mephi5t0 13y agoQuestion: did anyone got fired in Washington for blowing through 300 mln and delivering jack shit? Why if you get hired in a company and preform poorly or just because of the budget cuts - you get laid off and end of story. If they have budget problem in DC and politicians doesn't do what they were supposed to, they get to keep a job and tell more lies...
- pikewood 13y ago"...government regulations did not allow them, even though they offered, to be volunteers if they worked for any sustained period. So they were put on the payroll of contractor QSSI as hourly workers, making what Dickerson says was "a fraction" of his Google pay" This information troubles me, because QSSI was just hired to fix Maryland's broken Health Exchange site. It sounds like the company is cashing in on the donation of brandonb and others experts' time? brandonb, is your team involved with the Maryland efforts, or is that a completely separate team?
- brandonb 13y agoUnfortunately, each of the 14 states that made their own exchange used a separate team with a separate codebase. To be clear, it's not like QSSI or anybody else is ripping us off. We're all getting paid the standard contracting rate. But many of us probably would've worked for free if they had let us.
- puppetmaster3 13y agoHmm. OK, here: #1: Understand the customer! In this case it's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Ignagni http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Ignagni (They lobbied a congressman from Chicago w/ donations to elect, and Republican side is pissed their side did not get more.) In EU, it tends to be written for the people, but in USA, it's the lobbyists as customers. #2: You can't fix political problems with software! For example we can make the problem 10 times less by allowing each state to manager Healthcare and compete for residents. Like Massachusetts. It's a fools errand. But you can milk the feds if you bribe the right official. #3. You won't find good and un-employed engineers! Not in SV anyway. A - type engineers are ~ $240K and up. Y-combinator is mostly n00b growth hackers, not expereinced coders. Plus the rumor is that you have to be loyal to the party of New Democrats as the main req, not software systems. #4. I heard it's written in .NET and Oracle Access Manager. A requirement? That's not what google plus, facebook or iTunes use or such use. I don't want to code w/ those people that use that stack ( but I would have a great time w/ them after 5pm, they tend to be nice people ). Kalvin and Brandon: The most patriotic thing to do is to not try and catch a falling knife so that each state can have a system they own - and we can move to a state that has a good one. Party greetings to you.
- MoonPeople 13y agoHello, My name is Dale Courtney. I received a email asking me if I wanted to help fix Obama-care or HealthCare.Gov. I might be interested. What would the job pay? Contact me @ moonpeopletrilogy@gmail.com or 386-689-0600. Thank you for your time and God Bless you. Dale M. Courtney Sci-Fi Books Moon People Trilogy