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The reason why this was asked is baffling to me. If you don't want to go, then do not go. I assume the AP was an adult. Adults don't need to resort to tricks l

by yason 13y ago

The reason why this was asked is baffling to me. If you don't want to go, then do not go. I assume the AP was an adult. Adults don't need to resort to tricks like trying to get rejected: adults can just reject the invite themselves.

maxerickson 13y ago
It's baffling you think this is true for everyone.
Fuxy 13y ago
Some people let themselves be force into things. I find it quite sad that they lack the strength to just say no. Edit: Peer pressure is a bitch especially when it's from your own family but don't let yourself be manipulated by it. Edit2: Some people have pointed out that it's not easy and in certain cultures be enough to kill a person. Now it's amazing that this in this day and age that is acceptable but i guess you can get away with anything if you say the magic word: "It's my religion/culture". However ask yourself this: I have 1 life am i willing to spend it all in a cage with some people i barely know making the rules? If the answer is yes the the give up already you don't have a choice if the answer is no do whatever it takes.
- hav 13y ago
  It's hard to have the strength to say no in certain situations. Not everyone is in the same position as you to say no.
- levosmetalo 13y ago
  It's not only about personal strength, no one is strong enough to change deep cultural heritage and go alone against 1000 year long culture in which woman has no say. From the comments, it's obvious it's a forced marriage and that the OP couldn't do anything about it. It's not about her husbands family, it's also her family that first "sold" or forced her to marry, and then they want her to live with that guy. Who knows, may be some blood is in danger to be spilled if she plainly refuse to go. That all being said, I wish her good look to find a way to do it without putting herself in any kind of danger.
  - Fuxy 13y ago
    Why do you assume that? Just because she's from Pakistan? Regardless my culture isn't that rosy either I just choose to reject it and was lucky that my family didn't really care. Regardless if you're life is in danger that's the equivalent of slavery and their not your family anymore their your masters. If you're OK with living that kind of life fine and just give up and go to the US otherwise you need to disappear and break contact with everybody you ever met. Either fight or give up it can't be both.
    - smtddr 13y ago
      I'm going to try to explain this; but words really won't do it justice. I cannot convey the strength of "cultural bonds" with text on a computer screen. As someone from a Nigerian family, we too normally have very strong family bonds. You can't just do whatever you want. The closest thing I could compare it to is kinda of like, all your family is considered immediate-family. In the same way you must balance decisions with your spouse you also must consider everyone's feelings & wants - Even people who are not logically impacted by your decisions and live 1,000+ miles away. Just throwing away the family network brings you great shame. Yes, pure logic says "Why should I care what a bunch of elders 3,000 miles away think? They know nothing of what I'm going through." ...but somehow... you can't just do that. It's a major part of who you are and breaking those bonds will you empty inside and dishonored by your family(maybe friends too). This is even more the case with women of the culture. It's much easier to create an external reason to defy your family like this lady is trying to do - so it looks like "Hey, I tried to do what you told me. Something else got in the way! Sorry! But you still love me, right?" This will probably sound like nonsense to anyone not part of this type of cultural system.
      - Fuxy 13y ago
        You're probably right i don't understand it. That's a lot of energy and effort put into pleasing people whom can and probably do have ulterior motives just so you can belong to a group. Is that group really wort all that effort? Does belonging to that group get you where you want to go? The answer for me was a resounding no but it could be different for you. There's very few people worth my respect and consideration but I certainly wouldn't bother to please and entire village. If you're not pissing people off you're doing something wrong.
- seren 13y ago
  Remember that in certain circumstances and parts of the world "peer pressure" can mean honor killing.
- kalleboo 13y ago
  > Now it's amazing that this in this day and age that is acceptable but i guess you can get away with anything if you say the magic word: "It's my religion/culture". I don't think anyone here is saying it's acceptable. But maybe there's a easier way than instantly rebelling, losing her funding for living expenses/college, and possibly getting a headhunter after her. Perhaps she can keep up the "denied entry into the US" lie long enough to make it finish college and become more independent, and then have the strength to fight? Being pragmatic instead of idealistic isn't always wrong. Especially when your future life is on the line.
negamax 13y ago
This is where cultural gaps kicks in. She might face lots of pressure from her relatives back home if she don't pretend that she tried (I am guessing) but it's a valid possibility.
baby 13y ago
You make life seems so easy.
Jacqued 13y ago
In some countries family-related problems can be REALLY hard to deal with, because sons and daughters (maybe even more so daughters than sons) are socially expected to obey their parents in whatever way the parents deem appropriate. The other option is to say no and then basically the whole family may overreact and stop all relations with you (husband, brothers and sisters, parents, uncles, even the most distant of cousins). Suddenly you don't have a family anymore. The OP on the stackexchange site might be in such a situation. In that case, lying your way out of the situation might be the lesser evil (for now). If she has the time and means to do so getting questionable visas (from US customs point of view) might cut it. I guess if you have visas for Iran, Yemen and Somalia on your passport it would not be too hard to get rejected at the borders.
snoonan 13y ago
A lot of the world doesn't subscribe to the individual-is-always-paramount view. This situation sucks, but helping the person starts with understanding the problem.
bitJericho 13y ago
Surely she could just say she was rejected. Does she need notarized proof??
- aestra 13y ago
  She said her family is "smart" and some work at JFK. She believes they will know if she didn't actually come.
jallardice 13y ago
I think you need to view this from the perspective of the individual in question. She just posted this comment: > I have said "No" but being a Pakistani girl there's nothing I can do. I was even forced to marry that guy who is 15 years older than me. And I would say goodbye to everything but I have to wait for the right time. I'm being mean though, I need my family right now to support me until I finish my school. And then it will be up to me. I know I sound selfish but it's nothing compared to what they've done to me and my life.
pbhjpbhj 13y ago
Let's assume that the writer is in an arranged marriage that she didn't consent to (except perhaps under some duress). There have certainly been "honour killings" in the UK and I doubt that other countries have solved that problem completely. If she runs then her life may be on the line. Under such a scenario the refusal of entry would appear to be something she can't control; plausible deniability is there at least. Thus she could avoid staying without appearing to have been disobedient, instead appearing to have been subject to the authority of the immigration control. Now the line about having relatives at the airport makes me think this is probably a hypothetical. How would things pan out if she simply hands herself over to the immigration officers and says that she's there under duress, that her husband is illegally resident and that he intends for her to unlawfully remain in the USA against her will? Presumably entry with intent to stay beyond the limits of one's authorisation is unlawful and would normally meet with deporting?
- snippyhollow 13y ago
  Exactly, if you look at one of her answers: """ Yes they're paying for my college and I live with them. Things were going good but then marriage and US came and ruined everything. I refused to go and I was told "you have to go". And yeah it's for real, if I do something which brings dishonour to my family they'll kill me and my mother will get in trouble as well. I know it's hard for you to understand but this is how my culture is. """
chunky1994 13y ago
I find it quite baffling too. It seems that a majority of people trapped in these situations lack the strength to reject them and make decisions for themselves, rather than blindly follow cultural obligations. Since the OP lives in Spain and is a Spanish resident, it's a rather reasonable guess that she's managed to to mitigate her circumstance to one that's manageable (by putting distance between her family and herself), so kudos to her, and yet she still struggles with a rejection of the invite which is quite sad. Disclaimer: I'm a (semi?) immigrant who's lived in India for most of his life (before coming to Canada, which was heavily dissuaded by a lot of my maternal family) so I have a sense of what it's like to reject the cultural oppression that the OP seems to face.
- thesimpsons1022 13y ago
  I think part of it is they are paying for her college and living expenses.
JonnieCache 13y ago
The issue isn't that refusal would shame her, it's that refusal would shame her family, and her husband and his family. They then have to save face somehow. That's when the problems start.
kalleboo 13y ago
She has a Pakistani family. It sounds like she's in a forced arranged marriage. This is a culture that condones murdering family members who don't obey their parents[0]. Even if her family isn't that radical, it should give you an idea of the kind of thoughts she's having. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honour_killing_in_Pakistan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honour_killing_in_Pakistan "honour killings have a high level of support in Pakistan's rural society"
aestra 13y ago
Disobeying her family is an offense punishable by murder in some cultures. Don't you guys get that!!!!???? This is a cultural acceptable practice. Women aren't "adults" in this situation. They are property of men. In addition - she said it can get her parents (mostly mother) in trouble and probably danger. This is probably because when a women disobeys she brings shame to her entire family. Her inlaws may attack her mother for her actions.

by yason 13y ago

maxerickson 13y ago

It's baffling you think this is true for everyone.

Fuxy 13y ago

Some people let themselves be force into things. I find it quite sad that they lack the strength to just say no. Edit: Peer pressure is a bitch especially when it's from your own family but don't let yourself be manipulated by it. Edit2: Some people have pointed out that it's not easy and in certain cultures be enough to kill a person. Now it's amazing that this in this day and age that is acceptable but i guess you can get away with anything if you say the magic word: "It's my religion/culture". However ask yourself this: I have 1 life am i willing to spend it all in a cage with some people i barely know making the rules? If the answer is yes the the give up already you don't have a choice if the answer is no do whatever it takes.

hav 13y ago
It's hard to have the strength to say no in certain situations. Not everyone is in the same position as you to say no.
levosmetalo 13y ago
It's not only about personal strength, no one is strong enough to change deep cultural heritage and go alone against 1000 year long culture in which woman has no say. From the comments, it's obvious it's a forced marriage and that the OP couldn't do anything about it. It's not about her husbands family, it's also her family that first "sold" or forced her to marry, and then they want her to live with that guy. Who knows, may be some blood is in danger to be spilled if she plainly refuse to go. That all being said, I wish her good look to find a way to do it without putting herself in any kind of danger.
- Fuxy 13y ago
  Why do you assume that? Just because she's from Pakistan? Regardless my culture isn't that rosy either I just choose to reject it and was lucky that my family didn't really care. Regardless if you're life is in danger that's the equivalent of slavery and their not your family anymore their your masters. If you're OK with living that kind of life fine and just give up and go to the US otherwise you need to disappear and break contact with everybody you ever met. Either fight or give up it can't be both.
  - smtddr 13y ago
    I'm going to try to explain this; but words really won't do it justice. I cannot convey the strength of "cultural bonds" with text on a computer screen. As someone from a Nigerian family, we too normally have very strong family bonds. You can't just do whatever you want. The closest thing I could compare it to is kinda of like, all your family is considered immediate-family. In the same way you must balance decisions with your spouse you also must consider everyone's feelings & wants - Even people who are not logically impacted by your decisions and live 1,000+ miles away. Just throwing away the family network brings you great shame. Yes, pure logic says "Why should I care what a bunch of elders 3,000 miles away think? They know nothing of what I'm going through." ...but somehow... you can't just do that. It's a major part of who you are and breaking those bonds will you empty inside and dishonored by your family(maybe friends too). This is even more the case with women of the culture. It's much easier to create an external reason to defy your family like this lady is trying to do - so it looks like "Hey, I tried to do what you told me. Something else got in the way! Sorry! But you still love me, right?" This will probably sound like nonsense to anyone not part of this type of cultural system.
    - Fuxy 13y ago
      You're probably right i don't understand it. That's a lot of energy and effort put into pleasing people whom can and probably do have ulterior motives just so you can belong to a group. Is that group really wort all that effort? Does belonging to that group get you where you want to go? The answer for me was a resounding no but it could be different for you. There's very few people worth my respect and consideration but I certainly wouldn't bother to please and entire village. If you're not pissing people off you're doing something wrong.
seren 13y ago
Remember that in certain circumstances and parts of the world "peer pressure" can mean honor killing.
kalleboo 13y ago
> Now it's amazing that this in this day and age that is acceptable but i guess you can get away with anything if you say the magic word: "It's my religion/culture". I don't think anyone here is saying it's acceptable. But maybe there's a easier way than instantly rebelling, losing her funding for living expenses/college, and possibly getting a headhunter after her. Perhaps she can keep up the "denied entry into the US" lie long enough to make it finish college and become more independent, and then have the strength to fight? Being pragmatic instead of idealistic isn't always wrong. Especially when your future life is on the line.

negamax 13y ago

This is where cultural gaps kicks in. She might face lots of pressure from her relatives back home if she don't pretend that she tried (I am guessing) but it's a valid possibility.

baby 13y ago

You make life seems so easy.

Jacqued 13y ago

In some countries family-related problems can be REALLY hard to deal with, because sons and daughters (maybe even more so daughters than sons) are socially expected to obey their parents in whatever way the parents deem appropriate. The other option is to say no and then basically the whole family may overreact and stop all relations with you (husband, brothers and sisters, parents, uncles, even the most distant of cousins). Suddenly you don't have a family anymore. The OP on the stackexchange site might be in such a situation. In that case, lying your way out of the situation might be the lesser evil (for now). If she has the time and means to do so getting questionable visas (from US customs point of view) might cut it. I guess if you have visas for Iran, Yemen and Somalia on your passport it would not be too hard to get rejected at the borders.

snoonan 13y ago

A lot of the world doesn't subscribe to the individual-is-always-paramount view. This situation sucks, but helping the person starts with understanding the problem.

bitJericho 13y ago

Surely she could just say she was rejected. Does she need notarized proof??

aestra 13y ago
She said her family is "smart" and some work at JFK. She believes they will know if she didn't actually come.

jallardice 13y ago

I think you need to view this from the perspective of the individual in question. She just posted this comment: > I have said "No" but being a Pakistani girl there's nothing I can do. I was even forced to marry that guy who is 15 years older than me. And I would say goodbye to everything but I have to wait for the right time. I'm being mean though, I need my family right now to support me until I finish my school. And then it will be up to me. I know I sound selfish but it's nothing compared to what they've done to me and my life.

pbhjpbhj 13y ago

Let's assume that the writer is in an arranged marriage that she didn't consent to (except perhaps under some duress). There have certainly been "honour killings" in the UK and I doubt that other countries have solved that problem completely. If she runs then her life may be on the line. Under such a scenario the refusal of entry would appear to be something she can't control; plausible deniability is there at least. Thus she could avoid staying without appearing to have been disobedient, instead appearing to have been subject to the authority of the immigration control. Now the line about having relatives at the airport makes me think this is probably a hypothetical. How would things pan out if she simply hands herself over to the immigration officers and says that she's there under duress, that her husband is illegally resident and that he intends for her to unlawfully remain in the USA against her will? Presumably entry with intent to stay beyond the limits of one's authorisation is unlawful and would normally meet with deporting?

snippyhollow 13y ago
Exactly, if you look at one of her answers: """ Yes they're paying for my college and I live with them. Things were going good but then marriage and US came and ruined everything. I refused to go and I was told "you have to go". And yeah it's for real, if I do something which brings dishonour to my family they'll kill me and my mother will get in trouble as well. I know it's hard for you to understand but this is how my culture is. """

chunky1994 13y ago

I find it quite baffling too. It seems that a majority of people trapped in these situations lack the strength to reject them and make decisions for themselves, rather than blindly follow cultural obligations. Since the OP lives in Spain and is a Spanish resident, it's a rather reasonable guess that she's managed to to mitigate her circumstance to one that's manageable (by putting distance between her family and herself), so kudos to her, and yet she still struggles with a rejection of the invite which is quite sad. Disclaimer: I'm a (semi?) immigrant who's lived in India for most of his life (before coming to Canada, which was heavily dissuaded by a lot of my maternal family) so I have a sense of what it's like to reject the cultural oppression that the OP seems to face.

thesimpsons1022 13y ago
I think part of it is they are paying for her college and living expenses.

JonnieCache 13y ago

The issue isn't that refusal would shame her, it's that refusal would shame her family, and her husband and his family. They then have to save face somehow. That's when the problems start.

kalleboo 13y ago

She has a Pakistani family. It sounds like she's in a forced arranged marriage. This is a culture that condones murdering family members who don't obey their parents[0]. Even if her family isn't that radical, it should give you an idea of the kind of thoughts she's having. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honour_killing_in_Pakistan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honour_killing_in_Pakistan "honour killings have a high level of support in Pakistan's rural society"

aestra 13y ago

Disobeying her family is an offense punishable by murder in some cultures. Don't you guys get that!!!!???? This is a cultural acceptable practice. Women aren't "adults" in this situation. They are property of men. In addition - she said it can get her parents (mostly mother) in trouble and probably danger. This is probably because when a women disobeys she brings shame to her entire family. Her inlaws may attack her mother for her actions.