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Or googles snooping in your data and selling your profile to everyone who pays. You should really read Google's privacy policy: http://www.google.com/policies

Or googles snooping in your data and selling your profile to everyone who pays. You should really read Google's privacy policy: http://www.google.com/policies/privacy/ http://www.google.com/policies/privacy/ So, no, they don't sell your profile. I do agree with your point: if you don't want advertisements. Pay for the service. E.g. Google Apps for domains allows you to disable adds in Google apps. And since you can bring your own domain, you can move to some other service if you are not happy with them.

mironathetin 13y ago
"So, no, they don't sell your profile." sorry, my mistake. They use it themselves (or let it slip accidentally to foreign secret services) :o).
belorn 13y ago
An non-binding policy, how quaint! http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/contractsprof_blog/2010/08/is-a-websites-privacy-policy-a-binding-contract.html http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/contractsprof_blog/2010/08/... Even if you trusted such things, google will still do targeted ads. If DEA want to find drug users, all they have to do is ask google and they will use users emails to locate them.
- Filligree 13y ago
  Yes, Google will comply with law enforcement. Uh... what would you prefer they do instead?
  - PavlovsCat 13y ago
    Avoid collecting such information in the first place, which of course would require a different business model, which brings us back to the initial point.
    - danieldk 13y ago
      Well, except that many users want full indexing of e-mails, including attachments, such that they can use an AJAX web interface to quickly search them. So, storing all e-mails encrypted is not really feasible if you want to have such features as well [1]. It's a trade-off - convenience or security (I am sure someone will site Benjamin Franklin now ;)). [1] Yes, I know that there is work on indexing encrypted data.
      - PavlovsCat 13y ago
        There is still a difference between storing the emails unencrypted and using them to profile users for ad targeting. But anyway, what you are talking about could still be optional: if you wanted to search and be somewhat private you'd have to download the emails with a local client via IMAP - and if you really need search via web interface, you would toggle the option to store the emails unencrypted for that purpose.
        danieldk 13y ago
        There is still a difference between storing the emails unencrypted and using them to profile users for ad targeting. You can disable interest-based ads: https://www.google.com/settings/u/0/ads https://www.google.com/settings/u/0/ads Also, if you have a paid Google Apps account, you can disable ads in Google apps. Personally, I'd like to see targeted ads more than 'random' ads. Of course, I don't like to be profiled. So, I use Ghostery, an ad blocker, and paid e-mail.
  - kefka 13y ago
    There is a big difference between: 1. Here is a lawful search warrant signed affidavit and approved by a judge _or_ 2. Here you go, the data on kefka. Thanks for asking.
    - chii 13y ago
      > 2. Here you go, the data on kefka. Thanks for asking. is this really happening? can you give some evidence that google is willy nilly giving private data away like that?
      - ahassan 13y ago
        No, he's saying that Google is doing the first point, not this one.
        kefka 13y ago
        Actually, I was referencing the AT&T "go ahead, it's AT&T's data and we can do whatever we want with it". That was so bad that Congress passed an ex post facto law relieving them of any criminal or civil wrongdoing. The problem here is that Google's data on us belongs to Google. They can do anything they want to that data: take a crap on it, process it for better ad targeting, analyze social media trends and figure out who we associate with, and/or give it to people like the FBI/CIA/NSA. Or, Google was hacked. That's also well within the realm of possibility as well. But I think governmental "persuasion techniques" like http://xkcd.com/538/ http://xkcd.com/538/ work much better. Just look at the stories of Qwest former CEO. He said no.
      - dotBen 13y ago
        Actually, the Snowden files show that is happening for non-US Citizens/US-persons. The NSA only has the legal obligation to obtain warrents for US Citizens not for anyone else. The NSA is unlikely to get involved in civil legal disputes but yes, it can go in and ask for Kafka's data from Google if he is living in, say, Germany.
        13y ago
  - belorn 13y ago
    Complying with lawful search warrants is one thing, doing targeting ads based on users behavior for money is something else. Targeted ads can be anything from a DEA honeypot that advertise cheap drugs, to quick guide for easy tax evasion made by the IRS. It might be ads targeted at people with specific sexual preferences. Any search-able trait imaginable that Google can target is exploitable, and the policy document is an official intent to do so.

mironathetin 13y ago

"So, no, they don't sell your profile." sorry, my mistake. They use it themselves (or let it slip accidentally to foreign secret services) :o).

belorn 13y ago

An non-binding policy, how quaint! http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/contractsprof_blog/2010/08/is-a-websites-privacy-policy-a-binding-contract.html http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/contractsprof_blog/2010/08/... Even if you trusted such things, google will still do targeted ads. If DEA want to find drug users, all they have to do is ask google and they will use users emails to locate them.

Filligree 13y ago
Yes, Google will comply with law enforcement. Uh... what would you prefer they do instead?
- PavlovsCat 13y ago
  Avoid collecting such information in the first place, which of course would require a different business model, which brings us back to the initial point.
  - danieldk 13y ago
    Well, except that many users want full indexing of e-mails, including attachments, such that they can use an AJAX web interface to quickly search them. So, storing all e-mails encrypted is not really feasible if you want to have such features as well [1]. It's a trade-off - convenience or security (I am sure someone will site Benjamin Franklin now ;)). [1] Yes, I know that there is work on indexing encrypted data.
    - PavlovsCat 13y ago
      There is still a difference between storing the emails unencrypted and using them to profile users for ad targeting. But anyway, what you are talking about could still be optional: if you wanted to search and be somewhat private you'd have to download the emails with a local client via IMAP - and if you really need search via web interface, you would toggle the option to store the emails unencrypted for that purpose.
      - danieldk 13y ago
        There is still a difference between storing the emails unencrypted and using them to profile users for ad targeting. You can disable interest-based ads: https://www.google.com/settings/u/0/ads https://www.google.com/settings/u/0/ads Also, if you have a paid Google Apps account, you can disable ads in Google apps. Personally, I'd like to see targeted ads more than 'random' ads. Of course, I don't like to be profiled. So, I use Ghostery, an ad blocker, and paid e-mail.
- kefka 13y ago
  There is a big difference between: 1. Here is a lawful search warrant signed affidavit and approved by a judge _or_ 2. Here you go, the data on kefka. Thanks for asking.
  - chii 13y ago
    > 2. Here you go, the data on kefka. Thanks for asking. is this really happening? can you give some evidence that google is willy nilly giving private data away like that?
    - ahassan 13y ago
      No, he's saying that Google is doing the first point, not this one.
      - kefka 13y ago
        Actually, I was referencing the AT&T "go ahead, it's AT&T's data and we can do whatever we want with it". That was so bad that Congress passed an ex post facto law relieving them of any criminal or civil wrongdoing. The problem here is that Google's data on us belongs to Google. They can do anything they want to that data: take a crap on it, process it for better ad targeting, analyze social media trends and figure out who we associate with, and/or give it to people like the FBI/CIA/NSA. Or, Google was hacked. That's also well within the realm of possibility as well. But I think governmental "persuasion techniques" like http://xkcd.com/538/ http://xkcd.com/538/ work much better. Just look at the stories of Qwest former CEO. He said no.
    - dotBen 13y ago
      Actually, the Snowden files show that is happening for non-US Citizens/US-persons. The NSA only has the legal obligation to obtain warrents for US Citizens not for anyone else. The NSA is unlikely to get involved in civil legal disputes but yes, it can go in and ask for Kafka's data from Google if he is living in, say, Germany.
      - 13y ago
- belorn 13y ago
  Complying with lawful search warrants is one thing, doing targeting ads based on users behavior for money is something else. Targeted ads can be anything from a DEA honeypot that advertise cheap drugs, to quick guide for easy tax evasion made by the IRS. It might be ads targeted at people with specific sexual preferences. Any search-able trait imaginable that Google can target is exploitable, and the policy document is an official intent to do so.