15 ms·

Freelance or job?

118 points by anupshinde 13y ago

eik3_de 13y ago
From curiosity: What did you change in your profile to get flooded with work?
- napolux 13y ago
  I have the same question :P
  - imdsm 13y ago
    Me too.
    - grault 13y ago
      Me too.
      - jbeja 13y ago
        Me too.
- fecak 13y ago
  This is the key to the whole post in my eyes. At first you get one gig, then can't get any gigs, and then get flooded with work after making one change. It seems that the change might have been a significant event. Based on the dates given, the calendar might also be somewhat responsible. The first couple weeks of the year are not very active in the hiring market.
  - jonathanbird 13y ago
    I'm with you here. I reread the entire post to see what I might've missed and it's bugging me that I don't know his magic sauce.
    - viame 13y ago
      I read this post 3 times and I feel the same way. I have too many questions now but until this guy/girl is on here answering us, I am not wasting my time and energy on this. haha :D
- roberjo 13y ago
  It was probably just the fact that changing the profile made it shoot up to the top of the list due to sorting by last date modified. Probably not the actual changed data itself. On the other, hand you won't believe what happened next after this Elance profile used one simple trick! CLICK HERE! </ Sarcasm>
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- anupshinde 13y ago
  Added a response as a new comment to the post
  - eik3_de 13y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7312467 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7312467 that is
napolux 13y ago
Stay with your job for one year more and be more selective in freelancing. In the meanwhile just 2 kinds of jobs: - The ones that can improve your knowledge / portfolio - The ones that pay VERY well. In this case you will increase your freelance experience and have enough time to decide what to do.
- pablosanta 13y ago
  That's a very good two-piece advice. I would add this: - The ones that use technologies you enjoy working with.
  - tirant 13y ago
    Unless you really need it, you should be only doing/working on technologies you enjoy to start with...
    - Jgrubb 13y ago
      Tastes can change though.
gexla 13y ago
Is there really much difference between freelancing and a job? In both cases you need (should) be building your personal brand and networking with people. I have bounced between jobs and freelancing. I see them all as my clients. The only difference is in how taxes are done and expectations. Maybe tell your employer that you are taking other projects and offer to stay on to do certain projects as a contractor, but at your freelance rate. There are a ton of threads on Hacker News on freelancing. I suggest you do some heavy searching. There are some real gems. Edit: The great thing about freelancing is that you can always fall back to regular employment. As your pool of contacts gets deeper, you begin to feel like you could never really be without work.
- paulhauggis 13y ago
  "Is there really much difference between freelancing and a job?" Yes. I had many jobs and now freelance. For me, freelance is a business. A job is a job. Your employer expects you to be working 9-5 (regular hours) and they can pretty much dictate when I have to have meetings and many other things. As a freelancer, I decide when it's convenient for me to hav e a meeting for instance. My clients don't really have any power over me because they understand that we are both businesses.
  - gexla 13y ago
    > Yes. I had many jobs and now freelance. For me, freelance is a business. A job is a job. Your employer expects you to be working 9-5 (regular hours) and they can pretty much dictate when I have to have meetings and many other things. > As a freelancer, I decide when it's convenient for me to hav e a meeting for instance. My clients don't really have any power over me because they understand that we are both businesses. Right, that's expectations. You set expectations when you start, job or freelancing. If you work full time, you set that expectation. If it's part time, that's a different expectation. You might even work part time from home and part time from the office. Maybe all that matters is that you are getting projects done in a certain time-frame. It also depends on the model you are working. In some cases I might be on a model where you have a daily or weekly rate. If I'm doing that, then my time belongs to the client for that period. If the client wants me to be in a meeting at X time, no problem. I also generally give the client a period of time on which I will be working on the project and available to talk. Generally I try to adapt to what's good for the client rather than what's convenient for me. As a full time freelancer, there is no convenience for me. If I'm on my working hours, I'm usually available to someone. There are times where I like to be working without distractions, but availability goes both ways. If I need to ask questions then I want an understanding of when I'm available and when the client is available. Everyone who is employed full time should be treating themselves as a business. You should be marketing yourself, always. You should be building networks, always. You should strategize for the future, always. I'm always tweaking and trying out different things though. Everyone has their own way. Mine certainly isn't the best. It's just another way. I'm still (and always) in training.
majc2 13y ago
To me, your question is about the feast or famine side of freelancing and consulting. The key is to hedge the famine side and sell existing clients retainers. patio11 and Brennan Dunn do a great job of explaining this in a ton of their newsletters and also in their soon to be released recordings here: http://recurringrevenueforconsultants.com/ http://recurringrevenueforconsultants.com/
- hoggle 13y ago
  The one thing I like so much about Brennan's writing is the focus on win-win and quality, professional attributes I was very fond of already but "Double Your Freelancing Rate" helped me tremendously to actually implement the measures needed and to internalize what it means to become the consulter I wanted to become - so I guess I second those recommendations :) Next goal, recurring revenue!
frigg 13y ago
It depends on your situation. Personally, I wouldn't give a bird in the hand for two in the bush. Do you have a family, loans? Do you have at least 6 months worth of living expenses? Can you quickly find a job if things don't go as expected with your freelancing jobs? You should consider these things first.
- lbacaj 13y ago
  All valid points.
bliti 13y ago
One very important thing not mentioned is what technology the OP freelances in. Mobile is hot and will have you working immediately (email me for iOS work), and PHP will take some weeks before you get a good contract that is not tweaking templates.
m0nty 13y ago
> But the three week (zero-work) period was a scary phase. That is freelancing, more-or-less. It's one reason you can get so much more than being an employee - you cover taxes, insurance (including professional indemnity), pension plan, sickness, times "on the bench", etc. Doesn't suit everyone. I always live well within my means and keep as much money in the bank as possible. That will cover me for a few months if I lose my current big contract. Like everyone else here, I would be interested in what you are doing right on Elance.
- dalore 13y ago
  Three weeks isn't even a long time to not have work as a freelancer. If 3 weeks is stressful, then he should not be freelancing.
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  Adam Smith's discussions of labor wages include a discussion of the regularity of work, and skills. See Wealth of Nations, book 1, chapter 8. Online at Project Gutenberg.
dools 13y ago
If you can get hired when taking into account the risk of having 3 weeks of no work, then you should take the freelancing role. So look at the ratio of time you spent without work so far, to the amount of work you have on the books now. Build in a bit of a "factor of safety" (I work on the basis that I can keep myself billable about 60% of the time, but you might choose less or more). If the rate your charging is sufficient that you can work only 60% of the time (or whatever you choose) and still make better money than your current job (or that the money isn't better but there is some other advantage like flexible living arrangements that may allow you a cost saving by being able to, for example, relocate to a cheaper location) then go for it. Just factor the risk into your hourly rate, and see if it works out. Of course your "risk assessment" may be completely inaccurate, which I guess is the real risk ;)
wudf 13y ago
Hire an intern and live every work-free day like a vacation.
tomp 13y ago
I have two words (statements) of advice for you: 1) Don't quit your job unless you have 6 months worth of living costs in savings. 2) When you're about to quit (depending on your job), you can talk to your boss about "potential new prospects" and "exploring the next steps in your career" - if he is a sensible, long-term thinking and ego-less person, and you're a good, valuable worker, he would probably want to keep on good terms with you, and the doors of this company might stay open for you even if, after 6 months or so, your alternative career plan does not work out.
- DrJokepu 13y ago
  I think 6 months is unnecessarily careful. Obviously that depends on where you live but it takes like something like 3-4 weeks for a competent developer to find a decent job? And in the worst case scenario, you would get paid like, about a month after you started as an employee. If your savings + available credit is equal or greater than 2 months of living costs, you can safely quit your job.
  - ixmatus 13y ago
    That size of an emergency fund is worth having not just for dips in work but also for relocation costs (if he ever wants to move), breaks from work to focus on new skills / further education, or even big emergencies. All of these things have happened to me and my emergency fund was there to catch me everytime.
  - mattmanser 13y ago
    And it then takes you another month to get your first paycheck. And what if that job doesn't want you to start for 2 weeks? Or more because they're doing a full background check? And say freelancing's going great, but then your first client isn't as great as you thought and starts quibbling over the bill? Or they take 4 months to pay you because finance never received the PO or finance never got a copy of the invoice or finance only begins processing the invoice when it gets chased (which is finance speak for "we're complete bastards who always pay much later than the agreed payment terms, ha ha ha, fuck you")? It depends on your commitments. If you can move back in with Mum & Dad or can couch surf a bit, then 6 months is perhaps unnecessarily careful. When you've got a mortgage and life baggage, probably not.
patio11 13y ago
I'd recommend shooting for freelancing income which doesn't just match your burn rate but comfortable exceeds your day job salary (as a start -- it should go up quite a bit from there), as otherwise you're doomed to a hand-to-mouth existence. 3 weeks without a paycheck isn't exceptional in freelancing, at all. If you want to do it full time, get used to that happening a lot. The risk of it has to be built into your weekly rates. Also, your projection that you will have 1.8X your monthly expenses in March is a projection -- in the real world of freelancing, you're going to have things like "client flaked on the project; two weeks which I had assumed sold are now empty", "client refuses to pay $10,000 invoice", "I had to pay $3,000 out of my pocket for professional liability insurance to secure the next gig", etc etc. And if you think that level of cash flow juggling is fun, wait until you have employees! You should, as soon as reasonably practical, stop sourcing gigs from oDesk/elance/etc and start sourcing them from clients who pay professional wages for professional work.
- vorador 13y ago
  By the way, how would you go about getting work from real clients? I can easily get work on elance but I find it hard to make the switch to "real" clients. I'm a generalist, should I find some sort of niche? Or should I raise my rates to attract better clients?
  - 650REDHAIR 13y ago
    (No experience doing this, take with grain of salt) I'd imagine you would use your oDesk/elance gigs as a portfolio and get involved in whatever niche community you'd like to work with.
  - glimcat 13y ago
    Have some skill where you can do X and it will cause money to happen for the client. Use existing knowledge of some narrowly specific type of business to give you intimate knowledge of the unique concerns those people have, how they talk about it, and what boundary conditions are going to affect which solutions do and don't fit well (e.g. gourmet pizza joints near college campuses, or heritage language schools to steal a previous patio11 example). If you don't have that sort of knowledge already, talk to people until you do. If you do have that sort of knowledge already, keep talking to people anyway because you still have plenty more to learn. Use knowledge of this specific customer to find, approach, and pitch clients who are a good match for your target customer. If you don't know how to find them, you don't know them yet. Then, pitch them: "You can have me do X which will cause money to happen for you." "I'm aware that you have concern_a and concern_b, which I will handle using specific_approach, whereas generic_person_235089 doesn't even have a clue about these important_issues." LISTEN to what they say, then use it to refine your ability to select potential clients and to improve your future pitches. Easy, easy, easy hack: remember the words they use to describe things and use EXACTLY those words when pitching them. Run 10 pitches, review, repeat with another 10 target customers. Make money. Then, go read tptacek's guide to scaling your practice: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4247615 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4247615 P.S. It's okay to be a generalist on the back end. It's not okay to be a generalist when you pitch. Address a clear, specific problem for a clear, specific target customer using clear, specific language which shows sensitivity to the issues as THEY see it and talk about it. 98% of people pitch by talking about things that are really their problems, not the client's problems. Actually, saying 2% of people clear that bar is probably being too generous. If you aren't sure, a good trick is to ONLY use language that you've heard come out of a customer's mouth.
maouida 13y ago
> Then, something happened after I changed my profile. Since Jan 30th I have been flooded with work. I'm very interested to know what is this change? I've just checked your elance profile, but I couldn't know what is it.
ixmatus 13y ago
It's called an emergency fund for a reason - as a freelancer / consultant you should be putting away even more than the average worker because your income may swing like that. For you, I would keep 6 months of living expenses in a savings account that is difficult to get to (I keep mine in a local credit union and don't have a debit card for it so I have to physically go in to withdraw which helps curb impulsive purchasing). Definitely go the contractor route - it is better pay. Also realize, though, that it's about more than just your programming skills. As a contractor people will pay you well to solve problems. Keep your skills fresh even if it means a little extra effort and some mistakes, you will be better off in the end (I am).
jasonkester 13y ago
The preferred method for reducing freelance workload is to raise your rate. Keep raising it until just the good clients are left. When workload starts increasing again, raise your rates again. Keep the job until you're billing at 3-4 times your salary, and routinely outpacing your paycheck with what you bring in on nights and weekends. And stop calling yourself a freelancer. That'll double your bill rate in one step.
- tzaman 13y ago
  Yes. Consultant is the term for that :)
  - rfnslyr 13y ago
    I prefer "<field> Wizard" myself.
  - fat0wl 13y ago
    Yeah corporate consultancies are great. Rates are good. Only have to search for new projects when you feel like it. Time for freelancing on the side. Takes a little time to adjust to the varying paces of diff corps (some real slow, some real fast). But yeah if mine were remote, I would be in heaven. But there are so many enterprise Java-haters in the world now... won't sit well with them. Rubbed me the wrong way at first cuz I was coming from RoR & open source stuff to enterprise package software. When I realized that "front-end dev" meant not touching the codebase outside of HTML mocks & javascript POCs, I got really annoyed. But I took a little mental vacation, got more involved in solving implementation difficulties, then the project ended & because of the coding prowess I displayed I got moved to full-stack feature upgrade/maintanenance, and started a new project as a web service developer (never done it) based on managerial faith alone. I think a lot of these job choices just have to do with delayed/immediate gratification. Corporate is delayed, comes in the form of eventual big $$ or leverage to get into a real interesting position elsewhere. Startup/freelance is open-source fast-paced immediate gratification but poses its own set of problems. In my experience the open source dev work I've done is more of a technical feat, but the discipline required for Java web services is making my mind sharp in a way that RoR wasn't. In a strange sense, there is less action but more discipline.
walshemj 13y ago
3x is the normal multiplier or set your day rate to be 100x your targeted yearly income want to target $60 pa dayrate = $600
heidijavi 13y ago
Can you delegate some of your 8-hour job stuff?
rmc 13y ago
The usual rule of thumb is that your freelancing rate should be double your salary. Freelancers have to take on considerably more risk than employees. Double your salary rate probably gets you about the same salary in the end.
primitivesuave 13y ago
I figured out freelancing somewhat organically, around the end of my first year of college, while getting a haircut. The guy giving me the haircut turned out to be the store owner, and we talked for a bit about how you can host your business phone in the cloud. A couple days later I had a simple Java applet making API calls to Twilio (it was my first year of college, I didn't know better ways to do it back then). He loved it - he could set it to remind his repeat customers to come in for a haircut at the frequency of their choosing. My favorite thing about that project is how simple it was and how little time it took. For a shitty Java UI that improved his ability to do business, I got a couple hundred bucks and free haircuts for life. After that, whenever I walked into a pizza place or burrito place or whatever, I asked the store owner if there's any way I can help them improve their efficiency or web presence. In my head it felt like I'd get a resounding "fuck off" from all of them, but in reality small business owners are wonderful people who love talking about how to improve their business. Small business owners who are hostile towards random people asking them stuff usually don't stay in business for very long. By the end of college, there were three places I could go to get a free pizza, and I hadn't paid for a haircut in three years. By the way, one of those pizza store owners had a cousin who worked in a small private lending company. I set up a Python library for him to scrape data from this ancient silo of data and graph it - that was the first job that paid really well. The key is to realize that being a good designer and engineer is like being a superhero in today's world. You do something that nobody else can - take advantage of it while it's still relatively rare.
- rsoto 13y ago
  That's a great story, I'm on the same steps right now with my own business. I'm curious about what you are doing right now, I'd appreciate an update.
  - primitivesuave 13y ago
    Did two startups, sold the first and burned the second to the ground (metaphorically, of course). Currently working on a new product with a friend from high school, also running an education organization for teaching kids about technology on the side. One other thing I should have mentioned is how consulting for small businesses gives you a unique perspective as to their needs and abilities, and makes you much more effective at meeting them if they are your target market. So if anything, do it for the insight, because most of them aren't going to pay you a lot of money.
davidarkemp2 13y ago
So, here's what I did when I dumped a (well paid) full-time job in order to start my own company/freelance full-time: * Took advice from people already doing it * Looked really hard at my living costs, savings, etc, and figured out that, probably, I could survive for 6 months or more without an income * Made sure I had some work (a bit of repeat work, and some other projects) lined up. * Spoke to as many other people as I could (I'm lucky, I have a solicitor and accounts in the family, as well as someone who started a company which now employee >5 people) Talking to my wife about finances and stuff was a big deal, as she had just decided to go part-time in order to study. But we did the sums, and realised it would have to go really badly, and really we had enough of a cusion that I could find a paid position if it didn't work out. Here I am, 18 months later, still paying the bills, still with enough money to live comfortably, and still working freelance. There are times when I'm scared stiff about money (I don't think this will go away) and other times when I'm working 10+hours 7 days a week, for a month or two at a time. I had a death in the family this month, which knocked me off schedule, and had more of an impact that I'd like to admit on my productivity, but I communicated with clients that, unfortunately, their projects were going to be pushed back, and it's been ok. Even when my second project was 2 months late, nobody complained. The client was paying a fixed-cost, so they essentially got two months free. If you're going to do work fixed cost, do not be afraid to hold your ground when you quote for it. I sometimes even quote a little high because I know I'm really rubbish at doing estimates, and it hasn't got better in time. You know other people are going to be late with key information and decisions, and there will be somethings that you miss when you first quote, but keep communicating with your clients and alert them early when things don't go to plan, and most people will be fine - and the rest you probably don't want to work with anyway.
reboog711 13y ago
My intuition is that 1.8 times your salary as a freelancer is not enough to cover your expenses as one and retain the same lifestyle. On the surface it is more money, but you're stuck paying your own benefits (health insurance is the big one), and expenses (such as computers, phone, electricity, etc..), and taxes (I use this formula ((Income-expenses)*40%) = how much I need to give the US government. As an aside, if you're too busy, you may consider raising your freelance rates now as a way to generate more income w/ less work.
- d23 13y ago
  > you're stuck paying your own benefits (health insurance is the big one) Eh, do. > expenses (such as computers, phone, electricity, etc..) A new computer every couple of years is negligible. > taxes Not sure why this would be any different. Were you not paying taxes when you were employed?
  - TheCoelacanth 13y ago
    In the US, if you are self-employed, you have to pay an extra 7.65% tax that would normally be paid by your employer.
  - reboog711 13y ago
    It is very different having taxes automatically taken out of your paycheck and having to remember to pay them automatically on a quarterly basis. Most people don't realize how big of a chunk gets taken out. And as was mentioned, as a self employed individual you also pay the "employer's" piece of Social Security which is an extra 7.5%. If you're incorporated there may be taxes related to that. I pay a yearly fee for the privilege of doing business in Connecticut. I also must file a yearly annual report with the state; which comes with a processing fee. I also pay property taxes on business property, such as computers and desks and chairs. My accountant has me list all of these. Many people go into sticker shock when I tell them to put aside 40% of their income to pay taxes.
sunny1304 13y ago
I worked for a company who worked on freelance projects. But the company shut down because of communication gap between the owner and the developers and also some client dint clear the bill in time (so they said to me). So i believe working as a fulltime freelancer is quite risky unless you have a plan for future (may b to launce your own product....) I like to suggest you to wait for at lest 3 months and observe the situation and think hard about where you want to go with freelancing ......
bocalogic 13y ago
When I was a wee-toddler, I would freelance in the afternoons and nights. I used the regular job for living expenses and banked my freelance money until it was enough to make the switch. It gave me a big comfortable cushion. I started small and all jobs were delivered before deadline and the execution is what set me apart from the rest of the competition. Work with less people and really deliver. Once you do that, existing clients will up their spend with you and refer you to other clients. Good work spreads fast. Once you get a lot of clients, then it is time to hire someone. For me, I hired someone with little experience and trained them from the ground up. My ratio was roughly 10-12 clients per employee. Small jobs are good when you are starting but they can also generate a lot of noise. Your time and expertise is very valuable. Price it accordingly. If someone is trying to nickle and dime you walk away. That will most likely to be a customer who is never satisfied and will continually ask you to do things that was not in the scope of work for free or fight you when its time to pay up. Good luck! :-)
zacinbusiness 13y ago
Freelancing is amazing because it forces you to budget wisely, to be smart with your time, and to learn to negotiate. But it sucks because you can get burned badly. I've been unpaid twice, once for a website and once for a blackberry app. But if you hit a hot streak and you can squirrel some money away, you can make a good living and mainly in your own terms.
kayaker932 13y ago
Email me if you're looking for a good PHP (symfony) gig.
anupshinde 13y ago
Thanks everybody for such an amazing response and suggestions. Few people asked what I changed that caused this sudden change in incoming leads. I do not know what exactly worked - but here are few things I changed. 1. It may be the calendar - but my intuition says its not just that. 2. Made my profile more keyword specific instead of lots of text. Uploaded a picture. I also researched a lot on other successful Elance profiles. There were two categories there a) Sounds cool to other freelancers, developers - I switched from this to the one below: b) Well formatted, keyword rich (for humans too) and shows up better in search results and shows up important stuff in the shorter profile views. 3. Removed the hourly rate from my profile. I did not charge much lower later either. But I figured out that fighting for that $1 extra is not worth if I am going to lose a lead and spend more time looking for other work. I think 49 < 50 should be represented as 49 <<<<< 50 (These are not my actual hourly rates). This may have been a biggest problem in getting invites. 4. Changed my profile such that it is more focused to what I want to do and passionate about (data-science/machine learning) rather than what I am good at (web-development). This doesn't really seem to have any impact on the kind of work I get - I get both equally. This has more due to my personal choice - I did not want to do web-development at my day job and at freelancing (it kind of gets boring) 5. Updated my blog with one pending post I had created earlier but had been lazy to upload it. --- 6. Reduced a lot of self-pitching in the proposals. I carefully choose whom I write proposal to. Client history, Previous hiring rate/cost, Client's project award ratio, understanding of technology, understanding of requirements, timeline suggested. I tend to focus on leads who seem to have a lesser understanding of technology but better clarity on requirements. 7. Chances of getting selected when somebody invites you are far greater than competing with 50 or 100 proposals. If you are invited - it seems that you are more likely to get work at your preferred rates. 8. Placing bids when the requirement is fresh and new (or has less proposals). Chances are that in case of lower proposals, client has received many proposals like "I can do in it $XXXX". A good proposal with relevant questions tends to stand out. If something has more than 12-15 proposals with rated freelancers - I back out unless I think I can make a very strong proposal or if this project is a "must-try". There may be tempting high value projects 3 days old with 80 proposals - chances are that the client has started discussing with somebody else in those 3 days. I used to spend a lot of time on such postings, and almost immediately discard those nowadays.
grdeken 13y ago
You need to manage growth. Continue to build your side business until you're working 15+ hour days and making too much money with side work that your current job is a hindrance. And stop using Elance if you want to make real money...
mekarpeles 13y ago
There are a lot of premium / hybrid solutions out there which may offer you the balance and higher price points you're looking for. Toptal (a16z) does temporary placements and is one such hybrid model. There's also gun.io (actually, think they pivoted slightly), ooomf, hackerlist.net, 10x, etc. Disclaimer: I am a founder @ Hackerlist. Having run and advised consultancies for a while, and having been an employed engineer, I'm happy to discuss the tradeoffs of each in detail, assuming there's interest. In terms of getting clients, I do think it helps working with another organization to increase your intake, even (especially) if you run a small consultancy/agency. Alternatively, happy to answer questions or help make intros around SF if people prefer personal interactions <m@hackerlist.net>
wusatiuk 13y ago
3 weeks at the beginning of jan is no big issue. After christmas / new year in a big part of the world, where rarely anybody is starting new project. The most important part is that your expenses are covered, so you should have some $$ on your saving account to survive the next 12 month without earning a single $. Then i guess freelance could be an awesome option for your. Your could also try, to acquire a long-term project as a freelancer for a better start.
upbeatlinux 13y ago
There's been a lot of great advice so far but I think making the jump really depends on where you are in life and where you'd like to be. Are you married or single? Do you have a family you need to support? Do you have a mortgage or other loans? Can you afford your own health insurance? Can you continue to work in your current location and maintain a healthy and sustainable lifestyle? Can you start investing more in yourself and freelance (savings, 401k, IRA, continuing education, travel, etc)? I made a similar jump two years ago and found oDesk/Elance/etc to be fairly sustainable source of income/jobs once you've demonstrable experience (either through their platform, your blog, github, referrals, etc). While not necessarily a rule I found the higher rate (should be proportional to your experience on oDesk, etc) tends to match up with the more fulfilling gigs and interesting clients using those platforms. While I agree with Patrick that you should stop sourcing gigs from oDesk/elance/etc you should also establish yourself and feel fairly comfortable running a consulting/freelance business before taking on 'professional clients'.

Freelance or job?

118 points by anupshinde 13y ago

eik3_de 13y ago

From curiosity: What did you change in your profile to get flooded with work?

napolux 13y ago
I have the same question :P
- imdsm 13y ago
  Me too.
  - grault 13y ago
    Me too.
    - jbeja 13y ago
      Me too.
fecak 13y ago
This is the key to the whole post in my eyes. At first you get one gig, then can't get any gigs, and then get flooded with work after making one change. It seems that the change might have been a significant event. Based on the dates given, the calendar might also be somewhat responsible. The first couple weeks of the year are not very active in the hiring market.
- jonathanbird 13y ago
  I'm with you here. I reread the entire post to see what I might've missed and it's bugging me that I don't know his magic sauce.
  - viame 13y ago
    I read this post 3 times and I feel the same way. I have too many questions now but until this guy/girl is on here answering us, I am not wasting my time and energy on this. haha :D
roberjo 13y ago
It was probably just the fact that changing the profile made it shoot up to the top of the list due to sorting by last date modified. Probably not the actual changed data itself. On the other, hand you won't believe what happened next after this Elance profile used one simple trick! CLICK HERE! </ Sarcasm>
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
anupshinde 13y ago
Added a response as a new comment to the post
- eik3_de 13y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7312467 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7312467 that is

napolux 13y ago

Stay with your job for one year more and be more selective in freelancing. In the meanwhile just 2 kinds of jobs: - The ones that can improve your knowledge / portfolio - The ones that pay VERY well. In this case you will increase your freelance experience and have enough time to decide what to do.

pablosanta 13y ago
That's a very good two-piece advice. I would add this: - The ones that use technologies you enjoy working with.
- tirant 13y ago
  Unless you really need it, you should be only doing/working on technologies you enjoy to start with...
  - Jgrubb 13y ago
    Tastes can change though.

gexla 13y ago

Is there really much difference between freelancing and a job? In both cases you need (should) be building your personal brand and networking with people. I have bounced between jobs and freelancing. I see them all as my clients. The only difference is in how taxes are done and expectations. Maybe tell your employer that you are taking other projects and offer to stay on to do certain projects as a contractor, but at your freelance rate. There are a ton of threads on Hacker News on freelancing. I suggest you do some heavy searching. There are some real gems. Edit: The great thing about freelancing is that you can always fall back to regular employment. As your pool of contacts gets deeper, you begin to feel like you could never really be without work.

paulhauggis 13y ago
"Is there really much difference between freelancing and a job?" Yes. I had many jobs and now freelance. For me, freelance is a business. A job is a job. Your employer expects you to be working 9-5 (regular hours) and they can pretty much dictate when I have to have meetings and many other things. As a freelancer, I decide when it's convenient for me to hav e a meeting for instance. My clients don't really have any power over me because they understand that we are both businesses.
- gexla 13y ago
  > Yes. I had many jobs and now freelance. For me, freelance is a business. A job is a job. Your employer expects you to be working 9-5 (regular hours) and they can pretty much dictate when I have to have meetings and many other things. > As a freelancer, I decide when it's convenient for me to hav e a meeting for instance. My clients don't really have any power over me because they understand that we are both businesses. Right, that's expectations. You set expectations when you start, job or freelancing. If you work full time, you set that expectation. If it's part time, that's a different expectation. You might even work part time from home and part time from the office. Maybe all that matters is that you are getting projects done in a certain time-frame. It also depends on the model you are working. In some cases I might be on a model where you have a daily or weekly rate. If I'm doing that, then my time belongs to the client for that period. If the client wants me to be in a meeting at X time, no problem. I also generally give the client a period of time on which I will be working on the project and available to talk. Generally I try to adapt to what's good for the client rather than what's convenient for me. As a full time freelancer, there is no convenience for me. If I'm on my working hours, I'm usually available to someone. There are times where I like to be working without distractions, but availability goes both ways. If I need to ask questions then I want an understanding of when I'm available and when the client is available. Everyone who is employed full time should be treating themselves as a business. You should be marketing yourself, always. You should be building networks, always. You should strategize for the future, always. I'm always tweaking and trying out different things though. Everyone has their own way. Mine certainly isn't the best. It's just another way. I'm still (and always) in training.

majc2 13y ago

To me, your question is about the feast or famine side of freelancing and consulting. The key is to hedge the famine side and sell existing clients retainers. patio11 and Brennan Dunn do a great job of explaining this in a ton of their newsletters and also in their soon to be released recordings here: http://recurringrevenueforconsultants.com/ http://recurringrevenueforconsultants.com/

hoggle 13y ago
The one thing I like so much about Brennan's writing is the focus on win-win and quality, professional attributes I was very fond of already but "Double Your Freelancing Rate" helped me tremendously to actually implement the measures needed and to internalize what it means to become the consulter I wanted to become - so I guess I second those recommendations :) Next goal, recurring revenue!

frigg 13y ago

It depends on your situation. Personally, I wouldn't give a bird in the hand for two in the bush. Do you have a family, loans? Do you have at least 6 months worth of living expenses? Can you quickly find a job if things don't go as expected with your freelancing jobs? You should consider these things first.

lbacaj 13y ago
All valid points.

bliti 13y ago

One very important thing not mentioned is what technology the OP freelances in. Mobile is hot and will have you working immediately (email me for iOS work), and PHP will take some weeks before you get a good contract that is not tweaking templates.

m0nty 13y ago

> But the three week (zero-work) period was a scary phase. That is freelancing, more-or-less. It's one reason you can get so much more than being an employee - you cover taxes, insurance (including professional indemnity), pension plan, sickness, times "on the bench", etc. Doesn't suit everyone. I always live well within my means and keep as much money in the bank as possible. That will cover me for a few months if I lose my current big contract. Like everyone else here, I would be interested in what you are doing right on Elance.

dalore 13y ago
Three weeks isn't even a long time to not have work as a freelancer. If 3 weeks is stressful, then he should not be freelancing.
dredmorbius 13y ago
Adam Smith's discussions of labor wages include a discussion of the regularity of work, and skills. See Wealth of Nations, book 1, chapter 8. Online at Project Gutenberg.

dools 13y ago

If you can get hired when taking into account the risk of having 3 weeks of no work, then you should take the freelancing role. So look at the ratio of time you spent without work so far, to the amount of work you have on the books now. Build in a bit of a "factor of safety" (I work on the basis that I can keep myself billable about 60% of the time, but you might choose less or more). If the rate your charging is sufficient that you can work only 60% of the time (or whatever you choose) and still make better money than your current job (or that the money isn't better but there is some other advantage like flexible living arrangements that may allow you a cost saving by being able to, for example, relocate to a cheaper location) then go for it. Just factor the risk into your hourly rate, and see if it works out. Of course your "risk assessment" may be completely inaccurate, which I guess is the real risk ;)

wudf 13y ago

Hire an intern and live every work-free day like a vacation.

tomp 13y ago

I have two words (statements) of advice for you: 1) Don't quit your job unless you have 6 months worth of living costs in savings. 2) When you're about to quit (depending on your job), you can talk to your boss about "potential new prospects" and "exploring the next steps in your career" - if he is a sensible, long-term thinking and ego-less person, and you're a good, valuable worker, he would probably want to keep on good terms with you, and the doors of this company might stay open for you even if, after 6 months or so, your alternative career plan does not work out.

DrJokepu 13y ago
I think 6 months is unnecessarily careful. Obviously that depends on where you live but it takes like something like 3-4 weeks for a competent developer to find a decent job? And in the worst case scenario, you would get paid like, about a month after you started as an employee. If your savings + available credit is equal or greater than 2 months of living costs, you can safely quit your job.
- ixmatus 13y ago
  That size of an emergency fund is worth having not just for dips in work but also for relocation costs (if he ever wants to move), breaks from work to focus on new skills / further education, or even big emergencies. All of these things have happened to me and my emergency fund was there to catch me everytime.
- mattmanser 13y ago
  And it then takes you another month to get your first paycheck. And what if that job doesn't want you to start for 2 weeks? Or more because they're doing a full background check? And say freelancing's going great, but then your first client isn't as great as you thought and starts quibbling over the bill? Or they take 4 months to pay you because finance never received the PO or finance never got a copy of the invoice or finance only begins processing the invoice when it gets chased (which is finance speak for "we're complete bastards who always pay much later than the agreed payment terms, ha ha ha, fuck you")? It depends on your commitments. If you can move back in with Mum & Dad or can couch surf a bit, then 6 months is perhaps unnecessarily careful. When you've got a mortgage and life baggage, probably not.

patio11 13y ago

I'd recommend shooting for freelancing income which doesn't just match your burn rate but comfortable exceeds your day job salary (as a start -- it should go up quite a bit from there), as otherwise you're doomed to a hand-to-mouth existence. 3 weeks without a paycheck isn't exceptional in freelancing, at all. If you want to do it full time, get used to that happening a lot. The risk of it has to be built into your weekly rates. Also, your projection that you will have 1.8X your monthly expenses in March is a projection -- in the real world of freelancing, you're going to have things like "client flaked on the project; two weeks which I had assumed sold are now empty", "client refuses to pay $10,000 invoice", "I had to pay $3,000 out of my pocket for professional liability insurance to secure the next gig", etc etc. And if you think that level of cash flow juggling is fun, wait until you have employees! You should, as soon as reasonably practical, stop sourcing gigs from oDesk/elance/etc and start sourcing them from clients who pay professional wages for professional work.

vorador 13y ago
By the way, how would you go about getting work from real clients? I can easily get work on elance but I find it hard to make the switch to "real" clients. I'm a generalist, should I find some sort of niche? Or should I raise my rates to attract better clients?
- 650REDHAIR 13y ago
  (No experience doing this, take with grain of salt) I'd imagine you would use your oDesk/elance gigs as a portfolio and get involved in whatever niche community you'd like to work with.
- glimcat 13y ago
  Have some skill where you can do X and it will cause money to happen for the client. Use existing knowledge of some narrowly specific type of business to give you intimate knowledge of the unique concerns those people have, how they talk about it, and what boundary conditions are going to affect which solutions do and don't fit well (e.g. gourmet pizza joints near college campuses, or heritage language schools to steal a previous patio11 example). If you don't have that sort of knowledge already, talk to people until you do. If you do have that sort of knowledge already, keep talking to people anyway because you still have plenty more to learn. Use knowledge of this specific customer to find, approach, and pitch clients who are a good match for your target customer. If you don't know how to find them, you don't know them yet. Then, pitch them: "You can have me do X which will cause money to happen for you." "I'm aware that you have concern_a and concern_b, which I will handle using specific_approach, whereas generic_person_235089 doesn't even have a clue about these important_issues." LISTEN to what they say, then use it to refine your ability to select potential clients and to improve your future pitches. Easy, easy, easy hack: remember the words they use to describe things and use EXACTLY those words when pitching them. Run 10 pitches, review, repeat with another 10 target customers. Make money. Then, go read tptacek's guide to scaling your practice: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4247615 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4247615 P.S. It's okay to be a generalist on the back end. It's not okay to be a generalist when you pitch. Address a clear, specific problem for a clear, specific target customer using clear, specific language which shows sensitivity to the issues as THEY see it and talk about it. 98% of people pitch by talking about things that are really their problems, not the client's problems. Actually, saying 2% of people clear that bar is probably being too generous. If you aren't sure, a good trick is to ONLY use language that you've heard come out of a customer's mouth.

maouida 13y ago

> Then, something happened after I changed my profile. Since Jan 30th I have been flooded with work. I'm very interested to know what is this change? I've just checked your elance profile, but I couldn't know what is it.

ixmatus 13y ago

It's called an emergency fund for a reason - as a freelancer / consultant you should be putting away even more than the average worker because your income may swing like that. For you, I would keep 6 months of living expenses in a savings account that is difficult to get to (I keep mine in a local credit union and don't have a debit card for it so I have to physically go in to withdraw which helps curb impulsive purchasing). Definitely go the contractor route - it is better pay. Also realize, though, that it's about more than just your programming skills. As a contractor people will pay you well to solve problems. Keep your skills fresh even if it means a little extra effort and some mistakes, you will be better off in the end (I am).

jasonkester 13y ago

The preferred method for reducing freelance workload is to raise your rate. Keep raising it until just the good clients are left. When workload starts increasing again, raise your rates again. Keep the job until you're billing at 3-4 times your salary, and routinely outpacing your paycheck with what you bring in on nights and weekends. And stop calling yourself a freelancer. That'll double your bill rate in one step.

tzaman 13y ago
Yes. Consultant is the term for that :)
- rfnslyr 13y ago
  I prefer "<field> Wizard" myself.
- fat0wl 13y ago
  Yeah corporate consultancies are great. Rates are good. Only have to search for new projects when you feel like it. Time for freelancing on the side. Takes a little time to adjust to the varying paces of diff corps (some real slow, some real fast). But yeah if mine were remote, I would be in heaven. But there are so many enterprise Java-haters in the world now... won't sit well with them. Rubbed me the wrong way at first cuz I was coming from RoR & open source stuff to enterprise package software. When I realized that "front-end dev" meant not touching the codebase outside of HTML mocks & javascript POCs, I got really annoyed. But I took a little mental vacation, got more involved in solving implementation difficulties, then the project ended & because of the coding prowess I displayed I got moved to full-stack feature upgrade/maintanenance, and started a new project as a web service developer (never done it) based on managerial faith alone. I think a lot of these job choices just have to do with delayed/immediate gratification. Corporate is delayed, comes in the form of eventual big $$ or leverage to get into a real interesting position elsewhere. Startup/freelance is open-source fast-paced immediate gratification but poses its own set of problems. In my experience the open source dev work I've done is more of a technical feat, but the discipline required for Java web services is making my mind sharp in a way that RoR wasn't. In a strange sense, there is less action but more discipline.

walshemj 13y ago

3x is the normal multiplier or set your day rate to be 100x your targeted yearly income want to target $60 pa dayrate = $600

heidijavi 13y ago

Can you delegate some of your 8-hour job stuff?

rmc 13y ago

The usual rule of thumb is that your freelancing rate should be double your salary. Freelancers have to take on considerably more risk than employees. Double your salary rate probably gets you about the same salary in the end.

primitivesuave 13y ago

I figured out freelancing somewhat organically, around the end of my first year of college, while getting a haircut. The guy giving me the haircut turned out to be the store owner, and we talked for a bit about how you can host your business phone in the cloud. A couple days later I had a simple Java applet making API calls to Twilio (it was my first year of college, I didn't know better ways to do it back then). He loved it - he could set it to remind his repeat customers to come in for a haircut at the frequency of their choosing. My favorite thing about that project is how simple it was and how little time it took. For a shitty Java UI that improved his ability to do business, I got a couple hundred bucks and free haircuts for life. After that, whenever I walked into a pizza place or burrito place or whatever, I asked the store owner if there's any way I can help them improve their efficiency or web presence. In my head it felt like I'd get a resounding "fuck off" from all of them, but in reality small business owners are wonderful people who love talking about how to improve their business. Small business owners who are hostile towards random people asking them stuff usually don't stay in business for very long. By the end of college, there were three places I could go to get a free pizza, and I hadn't paid for a haircut in three years. By the way, one of those pizza store owners had a cousin who worked in a small private lending company. I set up a Python library for him to scrape data from this ancient silo of data and graph it - that was the first job that paid really well. The key is to realize that being a good designer and engineer is like being a superhero in today's world. You do something that nobody else can - take advantage of it while it's still relatively rare.

rsoto 13y ago
That's a great story, I'm on the same steps right now with my own business. I'm curious about what you are doing right now, I'd appreciate an update.
- primitivesuave 13y ago
  Did two startups, sold the first and burned the second to the ground (metaphorically, of course). Currently working on a new product with a friend from high school, also running an education organization for teaching kids about technology on the side. One other thing I should have mentioned is how consulting for small businesses gives you a unique perspective as to their needs and abilities, and makes you much more effective at meeting them if they are your target market. So if anything, do it for the insight, because most of them aren't going to pay you a lot of money.

davidarkemp2 13y ago

So, here's what I did when I dumped a (well paid) full-time job in order to start my own company/freelance full-time: * Took advice from people already doing it * Looked really hard at my living costs, savings, etc, and figured out that, probably, I could survive for 6 months or more without an income * Made sure I had some work (a bit of repeat work, and some other projects) lined up. * Spoke to as many other people as I could (I'm lucky, I have a solicitor and accounts in the family, as well as someone who started a company which now employee >5 people) Talking to my wife about finances and stuff was a big deal, as she had just decided to go part-time in order to study. But we did the sums, and realised it would have to go really badly, and really we had enough of a cusion that I could find a paid position if it didn't work out. Here I am, 18 months later, still paying the bills, still with enough money to live comfortably, and still working freelance. There are times when I'm scared stiff about money (I don't think this will go away) and other times when I'm working 10+hours 7 days a week, for a month or two at a time. I had a death in the family this month, which knocked me off schedule, and had more of an impact that I'd like to admit on my productivity, but I communicated with clients that, unfortunately, their projects were going to be pushed back, and it's been ok. Even when my second project was 2 months late, nobody complained. The client was paying a fixed-cost, so they essentially got two months free. If you're going to do work fixed cost, do not be afraid to hold your ground when you quote for it. I sometimes even quote a little high because I know I'm really rubbish at doing estimates, and it hasn't got better in time. You know other people are going to be late with key information and decisions, and there will be somethings that you miss when you first quote, but keep communicating with your clients and alert them early when things don't go to plan, and most people will be fine - and the rest you probably don't want to work with anyway.

reboog711 13y ago

My intuition is that 1.8 times your salary as a freelancer is not enough to cover your expenses as one and retain the same lifestyle. On the surface it is more money, but you're stuck paying your own benefits (health insurance is the big one), and expenses (such as computers, phone, electricity, etc..), and taxes (I use this formula ((Income-expenses)*40%) = how much I need to give the US government. As an aside, if you're too busy, you may consider raising your freelance rates now as a way to generate more income w/ less work.

d23 13y ago
> you're stuck paying your own benefits (health insurance is the big one) Eh, do. > expenses (such as computers, phone, electricity, etc..) A new computer every couple of years is negligible. > taxes Not sure why this would be any different. Were you not paying taxes when you were employed?
- TheCoelacanth 13y ago
  In the US, if you are self-employed, you have to pay an extra 7.65% tax that would normally be paid by your employer.
- reboog711 13y ago
  It is very different having taxes automatically taken out of your paycheck and having to remember to pay them automatically on a quarterly basis. Most people don't realize how big of a chunk gets taken out. And as was mentioned, as a self employed individual you also pay the "employer's" piece of Social Security which is an extra 7.5%. If you're incorporated there may be taxes related to that. I pay a yearly fee for the privilege of doing business in Connecticut. I also must file a yearly annual report with the state; which comes with a processing fee. I also pay property taxes on business property, such as computers and desks and chairs. My accountant has me list all of these. Many people go into sticker shock when I tell them to put aside 40% of their income to pay taxes.

sunny1304 13y ago

I worked for a company who worked on freelance projects. But the company shut down because of communication gap between the owner and the developers and also some client dint clear the bill in time (so they said to me). So i believe working as a fulltime freelancer is quite risky unless you have a plan for future (may b to launce your own product....) I like to suggest you to wait for at lest 3 months and observe the situation and think hard about where you want to go with freelancing ......

bocalogic 13y ago

When I was a wee-toddler, I would freelance in the afternoons and nights. I used the regular job for living expenses and banked my freelance money until it was enough to make the switch. It gave me a big comfortable cushion. I started small and all jobs were delivered before deadline and the execution is what set me apart from the rest of the competition. Work with less people and really deliver. Once you do that, existing clients will up their spend with you and refer you to other clients. Good work spreads fast. Once you get a lot of clients, then it is time to hire someone. For me, I hired someone with little experience and trained them from the ground up. My ratio was roughly 10-12 clients per employee. Small jobs are good when you are starting but they can also generate a lot of noise. Your time and expertise is very valuable. Price it accordingly. If someone is trying to nickle and dime you walk away. That will most likely to be a customer who is never satisfied and will continually ask you to do things that was not in the scope of work for free or fight you when its time to pay up. Good luck! :-)

zacinbusiness 13y ago

Freelancing is amazing because it forces you to budget wisely, to be smart with your time, and to learn to negotiate. But it sucks because you can get burned badly. I've been unpaid twice, once for a website and once for a blackberry app. But if you hit a hot streak and you can squirrel some money away, you can make a good living and mainly in your own terms.

kayaker932 13y ago

Email me if you're looking for a good PHP (symfony) gig.

anupshinde 13y ago

Thanks everybody for such an amazing response and suggestions. Few people asked what I changed that caused this sudden change in incoming leads. I do not know what exactly worked - but here are few things I changed. 1. It may be the calendar - but my intuition says its not just that. 2. Made my profile more keyword specific instead of lots of text. Uploaded a picture. I also researched a lot on other successful Elance profiles. There were two categories there a) Sounds cool to other freelancers, developers - I switched from this to the one below: b) Well formatted, keyword rich (for humans too) and shows up better in search results and shows up important stuff in the shorter profile views. 3. Removed the hourly rate from my profile. I did not charge much lower later either. But I figured out that fighting for that $1 extra is not worth if I am going to lose a lead and spend more time looking for other work. I think 49 < 50 should be represented as 49 <<<<< 50 (These are not my actual hourly rates). This may have been a biggest problem in getting invites. 4. Changed my profile such that it is more focused to what I want to do and passionate about (data-science/machine learning) rather than what I am good at (web-development). This doesn't really seem to have any impact on the kind of work I get - I get both equally. This has more due to my personal choice - I did not want to do web-development at my day job and at freelancing (it kind of gets boring) 5. Updated my blog with one pending post I had created earlier but had been lazy to upload it. --- 6. Reduced a lot of self-pitching in the proposals. I carefully choose whom I write proposal to. Client history, Previous hiring rate/cost, Client's project award ratio, understanding of technology, understanding of requirements, timeline suggested. I tend to focus on leads who seem to have a lesser understanding of technology but better clarity on requirements. 7. Chances of getting selected when somebody invites you are far greater than competing with 50 or 100 proposals. If you are invited - it seems that you are more likely to get work at your preferred rates. 8. Placing bids when the requirement is fresh and new (or has less proposals). Chances are that in case of lower proposals, client has received many proposals like "I can do in it $XXXX". A good proposal with relevant questions tends to stand out. If something has more than 12-15 proposals with rated freelancers - I back out unless I think I can make a very strong proposal or if this project is a "must-try". There may be tempting high value projects 3 days old with 80 proposals - chances are that the client has started discussing with somebody else in those 3 days. I used to spend a lot of time on such postings, and almost immediately discard those nowadays.

grdeken 13y ago

You need to manage growth. Continue to build your side business until you're working 15+ hour days and making too much money with side work that your current job is a hindrance. And stop using Elance if you want to make real money...

mekarpeles 13y ago

There are a lot of premium / hybrid solutions out there which may offer you the balance and higher price points you're looking for. Toptal (a16z) does temporary placements and is one such hybrid model. There's also gun.io (actually, think they pivoted slightly), ooomf, hackerlist.net, 10x, etc. Disclaimer: I am a founder @ Hackerlist. Having run and advised consultancies for a while, and having been an employed engineer, I'm happy to discuss the tradeoffs of each in detail, assuming there's interest. In terms of getting clients, I do think it helps working with another organization to increase your intake, even (especially) if you run a small consultancy/agency. Alternatively, happy to answer questions or help make intros around SF if people prefer personal interactions <m@hackerlist.net>

wusatiuk 13y ago

3 weeks at the beginning of jan is no big issue. After christmas / new year in a big part of the world, where rarely anybody is starting new project. The most important part is that your expenses are covered, so you should have some $$ on your saving account to survive the next 12 month without earning a single $. Then i guess freelance could be an awesome option for your. Your could also try, to acquire a long-term project as a freelancer for a better start.

upbeatlinux 13y ago

There's been a lot of great advice so far but I think making the jump really depends on where you are in life and where you'd like to be. Are you married or single? Do you have a family you need to support? Do you have a mortgage or other loans? Can you afford your own health insurance? Can you continue to work in your current location and maintain a healthy and sustainable lifestyle? Can you start investing more in yourself and freelance (savings, 401k, IRA, continuing education, travel, etc)? I made a similar jump two years ago and found oDesk/Elance/etc to be fairly sustainable source of income/jobs once you've demonstrable experience (either through their platform, your blog, github, referrals, etc). While not necessarily a rule I found the higher rate (should be proportional to your experience on oDesk, etc) tends to match up with the more fulfilling gigs and interesting clients using those platforms. While I agree with Patrick that you should stop sourcing gigs from oDesk/elance/etc you should also establish yourself and feel fairly comfortable running a consulting/freelance business before taking on 'professional clients'.