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Is this not just what spies and covert agents have been doing for centuries? But now with extra * INTERNET !!! * added, which somehow makes it worse? I would be

by grkvlt 13y ago

Is this not just what spies and covert agents have been doing for centuries? But now with extra * INTERNET !!! * added, which somehow makes it worse? I would be more worried if our spy agencies and intelligence organisations did not have this sort of capability, and could only manipulate and deceive using TV, newspapers, talking, joining societies, clubs and associations, following people and so on.

api 13y ago
The net permits it to be done with unprecedented precision, scale, ease, and deniability.
- mpyne 13y ago
  Computers do. Networks too, but the NSA and military have had networks far longer than the rest of us. The only thing that has really "scaled" here is the people themselves, and I don't find it strange that all the normal real-life problems have followed people as they migrated online.
- einhverfr 13y ago
  It isn't just the net though. It's also deep pockets of the defence industry. If we really want reform, the uncomfortable truth is that the only way to reform the system is to reduce the amount of money flowing to defence contractors. Unfortunately I think, aside from a total economic collapse, pigs will sooner evolve wings.
tippytop 13y ago
And now thanks to Mr. Greenwald's reporting, citizens & elected officials, policy wonks & pundits, scholars & laymen alike, can all discuss actual facts instead of relying on grkvit's assumptions about how government spy programs operate.
higherpurpose 13y ago
In the 20th century CIA could assassinate people...and in the 21st century the same CIA can assassinate 1000x more people with drones. So what's the big deal? It's "the same". And it's their job. See the fallacy of your logic there? > The broader point is that, far beyond hacktivists, these surveillance agencies have vested themselves with the power to deliberately ruin people’s reputations and disrupt their online political activity even though they’ve been charged with no crimes, and even though their actions have no conceivable connection to terrorism or even national security threats.
- eru 13y ago
  By thet logic, lots of people had `jobs' in Gulags and concentrations camps, too.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
a3n 13y ago
We have always been at war with citizens.
- NN88 13y ago
  Do you ever get tired of being so sarcastic? As if this nation of 300M+ people is all on the same page?

by grkvlt 13y ago

api 13y ago

The net permits it to be done with unprecedented precision, scale, ease, and deniability.

mpyne 13y ago
Computers do. Networks too, but the NSA and military have had networks far longer than the rest of us. The only thing that has really "scaled" here is the people themselves, and I don't find it strange that all the normal real-life problems have followed people as they migrated online.
einhverfr 13y ago
It isn't just the net though. It's also deep pockets of the defence industry. If we really want reform, the uncomfortable truth is that the only way to reform the system is to reduce the amount of money flowing to defence contractors. Unfortunately I think, aside from a total economic collapse, pigs will sooner evolve wings.

tippytop 13y ago

And now thanks to Mr. Greenwald's reporting, citizens & elected officials, policy wonks & pundits, scholars & laymen alike, can all discuss actual facts instead of relying on grkvit's assumptions about how government spy programs operate.

higherpurpose 13y ago

In the 20th century CIA could assassinate people...and in the 21st century the same CIA can assassinate 1000x more people with drones. So what's the big deal? It's "the same". And it's their job. See the fallacy of your logic there? > The broader point is that, far beyond hacktivists, these surveillance agencies have vested themselves with the power to deliberately ruin people’s reputations and disrupt their online political activity even though they’ve been charged with no crimes, and even though their actions have no conceivable connection to terrorism or even national security threats.

eru 13y ago
By thet logic, lots of people had `jobs' in Gulags and concentrations camps, too.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

a3n 13y ago

We have always been at war with citizens.

NN88 13y ago
Do you ever get tired of being so sarcastic? As if this nation of 300M+ people is all on the same page?