6 ms·

They've been trained by unethical spam senders that unsubscribing doesn't work.

hdevalence 13y ago
Or, the company hides the "unsubscribe" link in a tiny font at the bottom of the email, and it's just much simpler to hit Gmail's big "spam" button at the top.
- YeahKIA 13y ago
  Hotmail has had this for a long time and has been very helpful. Glad that Gmail folks are getting it as well.
- arn 13y ago
  Is that really considered hiding? I expect the unsubscribe link to be a small link in the footer. If it's not, then it's an inconvenience.
  - lambda 13y ago
    It's small and hard to find. Yes, that's where I expect to find it, but that involves scrolling down and reading through a bunch of fine print to find the right thing. Oh, and I've had plenty of cases of using the unsubscribe link not actually work, or only unsubscribe me from one of the five lists that they autosubscribed me to, that it's hard to trust. On the other hand, the spam button is right up top, in the same place every time, and easy to click. It's a lot faster and more user friendly, and it generally gives me better results.
    - nnnnni 13y ago
      Let's not forget about the cases where the "unsubscribe" link is really just confirming that a person is receiving the emails so that more can be sent!
      - lutusp 13y ago
        No, it's better than that. An advertiser that remails to someone who clicks "unsubscribe" risks prosecution, but he can share his unsubscribe list with a third party in the advertising business, and he can do it legally. This is a loophole in Can-Spam that no one noticed (and not the only one).
        eli 13y ago
        Who would want to buy a list of people who unsubscribe? I'm having a hard time imagining a less valuable list of valid email addresses.
        lutusp 13y ago
        > Who would want to buy a list of people who unsubscribe? A spammer. Before Can-Spam, spammers would always re-use and sell the address of someone who replied to a prior spam mailing, even if the reply was a threat of legal action.
        eli 13y ago
        If you're a spammer, there are far easier ways to get lists of email addresses of people who are much more likely to buy something. People who take the time to unsubscribe from a mailing list are incredibly unlikely to buy anything from bona fide spam. Sorry, I'm just not seeing it.
        lutusp 13y ago
        > Sorry, I'm just not seeing it. Before Can-Spam, spammers ranked e-mail addresses read by a human higher than dead addresses (no surprise). The economics of spamming dictate that a mailing list of living humans, however acquired and however unlikely to result in sales, will be spammed again and again, simply as a bet that some fool somewhere will respond as the spammer would like. Now that we have Can-Spam and unsubscribe links must be present, the spammers have changed tactics -- instead of collecting reply addresses known to be read by humans, they collect unsubscribe addresses known to be read by humans. Old wine in new bottles. > are incredibly unlikely to buy anything from bona fide spam. Yes, but let's say that an unsophisticated computer user receives, not a simple spam message, but a carefully designed phishing e-mail that is known to fool .1% of its recipients. For that scenario, e-mail addresses acquired as explained above would make perfectly suitable targets.
eli 13y ago
I think this is a myth. The unsubscribe link, from everything I've seen since CAN-SPAM a decade ago, almost always works.
- pessimizer 13y ago
  Almost always works for that particular mail, but verifies that mail is good for whoever that list is then sold on to.
  - eli 13y ago
    I can only offer my own experience, but I've been involved in email marketing for a while now and I've neither bought nor sold a list of email addresses.
    - awakeasleep 13y ago
      Have you ever closed down one list, but kept the DB of subscriber emails, and then started a new list, months later, that the 'subscriber' would have to unsubscribe from again? Because that definitely happens.
      - eli 13y ago
        I've never done that, no. That's not very nice, but it's also bad business. People who unsubscribe have already told you they aren't interested. Email them again and you're far more likely to provoke an angry response than a useful click/open.
- georgemcbay 13y ago
  It is becoming less common, but quite a few mailers would have that link take you to a website where you either need to login or type something to confirm the unsubscribe. In those cases I would always just hit the back button and then hit gmail's report as spam button, because fuck that. If any emailer's unsubscribe system is significantly more work for me than reporting as spam, I'm going to report it as spam and not feel the least bit of guilt about it.

Or, the company hides the "unsubscribe" link in a tiny font at the bottom of the email, and it's just much simpler to hit Gmail's big "spam" button at the top.

YeahKIA 13y ago
Hotmail has had this for a long time and has been very helpful. Glad that Gmail folks are getting it as well.
arn 13y ago
Is that really considered hiding? I expect the unsubscribe link to be a small link in the footer. If it's not, then it's an inconvenience.
- lambda 13y ago
  It's small and hard to find. Yes, that's where I expect to find it, but that involves scrolling down and reading through a bunch of fine print to find the right thing. Oh, and I've had plenty of cases of using the unsubscribe link not actually work, or only unsubscribe me from one of the five lists that they autosubscribed me to, that it's hard to trust. On the other hand, the spam button is right up top, in the same place every time, and easy to click. It's a lot faster and more user friendly, and it generally gives me better results.
  - nnnnni 13y ago
    Let's not forget about the cases where the "unsubscribe" link is really just confirming that a person is receiving the emails so that more can be sent!
    - lutusp 13y ago
      No, it's better than that. An advertiser that remails to someone who clicks "unsubscribe" risks prosecution, but he can share his unsubscribe list with a third party in the advertising business, and he can do it legally. This is a loophole in Can-Spam that no one noticed (and not the only one).
      - eli 13y ago
        Who would want to buy a list of people who unsubscribe? I'm having a hard time imagining a less valuable list of valid email addresses.
        lutusp 13y ago
        > Who would want to buy a list of people who unsubscribe? A spammer. Before Can-Spam, spammers would always re-use and sell the address of someone who replied to a prior spam mailing, even if the reply was a threat of legal action.
        eli 13y ago
        If you're a spammer, there are far easier ways to get lists of email addresses of people who are much more likely to buy something. People who take the time to unsubscribe from a mailing list are incredibly unlikely to buy anything from bona fide spam. Sorry, I'm just not seeing it.
        lutusp 13y ago
        > Sorry, I'm just not seeing it. Before Can-Spam, spammers ranked e-mail addresses read by a human higher than dead addresses (no surprise). The economics of spamming dictate that a mailing list of living humans, however acquired and however unlikely to result in sales, will be spammed again and again, simply as a bet that some fool somewhere will respond as the spammer would like. Now that we have Can-Spam and unsubscribe links must be present, the spammers have changed tactics -- instead of collecting reply addresses known to be read by humans, they collect unsubscribe addresses known to be read by humans. Old wine in new bottles. > are incredibly unlikely to buy anything from bona fide spam. Yes, but let's say that an unsophisticated computer user receives, not a simple spam message, but a carefully designed phishing e-mail that is known to fool .1% of its recipients. For that scenario, e-mail addresses acquired as explained above would make perfectly suitable targets.

eli 13y ago

I think this is a myth. The unsubscribe link, from everything I've seen since CAN-SPAM a decade ago, almost always works.

pessimizer 13y ago
Almost always works for that particular mail, but verifies that mail is good for whoever that list is then sold on to.
- eli 13y ago
  I can only offer my own experience, but I've been involved in email marketing for a while now and I've neither bought nor sold a list of email addresses.
  - awakeasleep 13y ago
    Have you ever closed down one list, but kept the DB of subscriber emails, and then started a new list, months later, that the 'subscriber' would have to unsubscribe from again? Because that definitely happens.
    - eli 13y ago
      I've never done that, no. That's not very nice, but it's also bad business. People who unsubscribe have already told you they aren't interested. Email them again and you're far more likely to provoke an angry response than a useful click/open.
georgemcbay 13y ago
It is becoming less common, but quite a few mailers would have that link take you to a website where you either need to login or type something to confirm the unsubscribe. In those cases I would always just hit the back button and then hit gmail's report as spam button, because fuck that. If any emailer's unsubscribe system is significantly more work for me than reporting as spam, I'm going to report it as spam and not feel the least bit of guilt about it.