20 ms·

"Imagine measuring your room by just walking around in it." Yes, and imagine transmitting each of those footsteps in real time back to Google, so they can have

by SiVal 13y ago

"Imagine measuring your room by just walking around in it." Yes, and imagine transmitting each of those footsteps in real time back to Google, so they can have a map of your room, too, in case they, or other parties, ever need it. I was just having a discussion yesterday with a friend who works at Google about what data they store when you query their search engine. Every single keystroke, including backspaces, is stored. They don't just know what you ask. They know how well you can spell and know how well you type, not just in general but down to specific letter sequences. With this data, they can tell if you are regularly more impaired (fine motor control) at some times than at others, or if you're growing more impaired over time and match that against the content of your queries, etc. "Phones that don't limit their boundaries to a touchscreen", meaning, we're not satisfied limiting our knowledge of you to just what we can extract from what you enter and how you enter it and when on a touchscreen. We want to know every step you take, when you sit, when you stand, how and where you walk.... SO much more data about you and your world that we can mine for treasure! I'm not saying that Google is evil. My friends at Google certainly aren't. It's just that they are like kids in a candy store with unprecedented access to data and so many great, new algorithms for extracting information from it that they are just loving it, the way geeks would. But we're really going down a rabbit hole here.

sixothree 13y ago
I don't think it's a coincidence that every new product announced by Google involves surrendering more and more personal information to them. Just once I would love to be proven wrong. But Google just seems like the neediest, clingiest, nosiest spouse one could ever have.
- psbp 13y ago
  What's the disconnect between Google's value and the information they gather. Obviously that's intentional most of the time, but it doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.
- batmansbelt 13y ago
  There is no need to throw in the casual sexism into your valid criticism. It diminishes your point.
  - sixothree 13y ago
    You are correct. I did not mean to imply that. I'm fully aware men can have all of those same traits and more.
  - shykes 13y ago
    Isn't spouse gender-neutral?
    - Gigablah 13y ago
      Maybe the post was edited afterwards?
    - sixothree 13y ago
      I did edit that particular word.
  - frogpelt 13y ago
    Ha! Now, who's being sexist?
- stdgy 13y ago
  What about this product is requiring you to surrender personal information?
  - User8712 13y ago
    Well, based on the video, they're aiming this as entertainment in some ways. This means your kids are going to run around your house playing these games, sending a 3D map of your residence to Google. Or wait, you lock this feature on your children's phone. Well, you can't exactly control their friends that stop by, or even your own family or friends that visit. It's not like Google needs to map a complete picture of everything at once. If someone pulls out their phone this week and points it around your room, the location and data is sent to Google. Fast forward a couple of years, and someone does it again, and now they have a little more data of your home. They'll have millions and millions of little cameras and sensors around every corner of the globe, slowly constructing a virtual 3D world in the coming decade. So yes, even if you don't want to surrender personal information, everyone around you will do it for you, and companies encourage your friends to profile you. It's similar to people uploading and tagging photos of you on Facebook. You can lock yourself in a box, and Google is going to know everything about you, even if you decide not to willingly share information. Most of the world uses Gmail. A friend recently sent out an e-mail for an event. I think I was the only person out of 20 that wasn't using Gmail. How do I not give up my information to Google? I stop e-mailing my friends? How do I contact them? Pick up the phone? Didn't Snowden inform the world of our phones being monitored? Hmm, no e-mail, and no phones. I can't even browse the internet, since the majority of sites run Google Analytics, or AdSense. Good luck not surrendering information. Anyway though, I don't think the intentions are evil, it's simply business. Rule number one, if you deal with users, you store as much data as possible. Delete nothing. You don't know where your business will be in the future, and this data might be priceless for improving your service, or expanding into other areas.
BlackDeath3 13y ago
>With this data, they can tell if you are regularly more impaired (fine motor control) at some times than at others, or if you're growing more impaired over time and match that against the content of your queries, etc. Not that this does them much good when Google Now (or, as I affectionately refer to it, Google Later) grinds my phone to a screeching halt and plays mercilessly with touch input.
ajcarpy2005 13y ago
I feel like it would be foolish to pass up the opportunity to be studied by algorithms. I hope that the rich data about me one day becomes useful in even more fantastic ways than simply marketing advertisements to me.
- Crito 13y ago
  You are not being studied by algorithms. When you go to the doctor, you are not inspected by a stethoscope, you are not inspected by an X-ray CT, you are not inspected by a scale. You are inspected by a doctor who is using those things. When I make decisions about consent, I am not primarily considering if I trust the tool. I am considering if I trust the person using the tool. My doctor wants to stick me in an X-ray CT? Okay, I'll consent to that. My employer or my insurance company wants to stick me in an X-ray CT? They can fuck right off. You are being studied with algorithms.
kanodae 13y ago
How exactly do you think Google's amazing query suggestions work? Hint: it's that data that you tried so hard to make sound creepy.
- PavlovsCat 13y ago
  What makes you think it's necessary to store "every single keystroke, including backspaces" for that?
hrayr 13y ago
What's the solution? Stop innovating because there's a slight chance of said innovation being used for evil? I'm all for being wary of what's going on, so that you don't get caught with your pants down, but what's the absolute worse that can happen? Every single tech that you can think of that has changed the world in some form, had it's own set of doomsayers, but as a whole I think we've progressed in the right direction. You can spend your days fretting about every single tech that comes out, or you can except that the world is changing and make the most out of it. Frankly, I don't mind living in the world we live in today, I'm excited to see what comes out next.
- sneak 13y ago
  The solution is to stop centralized data collection. The reason it doesn't happen is because corporations don't like giving up control of data that they can keep to themselves and store forever. Many of these apps could run clientside and access the cloud solely for information, but that doesn't fit in with the Google vision of organizing the world's information and making it useful for selling products and services to advertisers. Data retention and collection practices that prevent widespread spying must be codified into law for this to ever work. Companies, Google being the shining example, (but Apple and Facebook not far behind) will simply not enforce these boundaries upon themselves, because the data is just too valuable in the context of future algorithmic analysis. Also, it's not a "slight chance". All these major innovations HAVE been used for evil, from mobile phones to wide-area networking to the web. It's not just fearmongering.
  - magicalist 13y ago
    Solved then: I see nowhere in this that says that this device is centralizing any data.
    - catshirt 13y ago
      sarcasm?
  - hrayr 13y ago
    "Also, it's not a "slight chance". All these major innovations HAVE been used for evil, from mobile phones to wide-area networking to the web. It's not just fearmongering." This is precisely my point, these technologies have been used for evil, but would we be better off NOT having them in the first place? Everything has been used for evil, including pencils. If we loose sight of perspective and only play on the fears, then it's very much fearmongering. I agree with you on your solution of decentralized collection being better. But I would argue that data analysis involving many data sources, including yours, is what makes a lot of the services being built USEFUL. Google Now being a good example of that. I would also argue, that targeted advertisement is much more useful to me, than non targeted advertisement.
magicalist 13y ago
It has "Java, C/C++, as well as the Unity Game Engine" API end points, and if it's fast enough to be input to a game, it isn't touching the cloud. I think you're misreading this. There may someday be a Google product that reads in a full 3d scan of your surroundings, but it's not this product. It's a sensor and some APIs. Until a device is actually released that requires you to upload all data, it seems premature to give up on it.
- ForHackernews 13y ago
  Maybe it isn't communicating with Google servers in real-time, but I'd be shocked if Google wasn't uploading all the data gathered after the fact. > Until a device is actually released that requires you to upload all data No, no, it won't be required... it will just be on by default, and the opt-out will be buried in a submenu hidden under the "Advanced Developer Options" section.
  - magicalist 13y ago
    Or it won't do it at all? The closest analog would be the Android camera, and it asks if you want to turn on autoupload or whatever. And it doesn't upload at all if the camera is being used by an app, even if you have that turned on, which would be the same case if people build apps to use this device.
    - ForHackernews 13y ago
      > The closest analog would be the Android camera I disagree. The closest analog is the Google location services, which continuously uploads data about your position and local wifi networks to Google, and is not very transparent about what it's doing: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384751,00.asp http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384751,00.asp
      - magicalist 13y ago
        It's literally an extra camera and a "depth sensor" (which is likely itself just another type of camera). So no, the analog would be the camera you're already carrying around with you. It's far more likely (if this catches on) that this will just be another sensor in your phone that apps can use, and if Google wants to improve maps or whatever, they'll just ask people to "contribute" scans, like they've gotten people to basically make street view for them[1]. [1] http://www.google.com/maps/about/contribute/photosphere/ http://www.google.com/maps/about/contribute/photosphere/
kh_hk 13y ago
Let me give you another example that goes on the line of your comment. Days ago a friend showed me how after calling a restaurant (just a number) for doing a reservation and later the contact list displayed the name of the restaurant and an image of it. Cool, right? Joe and Foo love this feature, but do not know the implications of it: a query is sent to Google asking for the info on a number (one must presume, tied up to your account id). Google now knows which numbers you are calling. and, Assuming they do this just for restaurants (how would they know, the query is sent anyways), they might even know your food preference.
- morganherlocker 13y ago
  It would be interesting to create some sort of crowdsourced database for these types of anecdotes that could then be sifted through and corroborated. Something like that might bring a bit more transparency to the "deal" we all make with these types of services. I get the whole argument of "well you wanted to use the free service, so now they get to monetize your data", but what services collect and how the data is used is extremely opaque.
  - cbr 13y ago
    The most dystopic uses of data are the ones where you'll never really know it was sold on. Get turned down for a job in five years because the owner paid to run a search in a private database that has something about your illicit past? How will you know? (Note: I'm not actually that worried about this -- I think society will adjust -- but I think collecting anecdotes only shames the people using your data in ways that are trying to be helpful to you.)
    - zevyoura 13y ago
      There are laws about pre-employment background checks; in general they can only be run with the consent of the person being investigated, and the person being investigated must be able to receive a free copy. So you will know. In addition, the FCRA mandates the following cannot appear on background checks: - Bankruptcies after 10 years - Civil suits, civil judgments and records of arrest, from date of entry, after seven years - Accounts placed for collection after seven years - Any other negative information (except criminal convictions) after seven years
frogpelt 13y ago
Really simple solution to this: stop using new technology. Unplug. Stay away from cities and other people who have devices.
- aw3c2 13y ago
  There is no reason this is necessary though, we could achieve so much with local applications and processing.
awkwit 13y ago
on one hand this sort of thing concerns me, but on the other hand that's just amazing. just comes down to trust I guess
blhack 13y ago
Good god I am so sick of reading comments like this. This view of the world is just lazy. Almost as lazy as "remember, if you're using a service for free, you're not the customer, YOU'RE THE PRODUCT!", which seems to get parroted every single time there is any discussion related to google, facebook, microsoft, instagram, twitter, or any other web company that uses ads as a revenue model. Yes, google can know what your room looks like. Google could also know literally every place you go, every message you send, every transaction you make through a bank, every website you visit, every photo you take, every person you meet, when you use the bathroom, when you sleep, etc. etc. etc. Who cares? If you don't like these services, don't use them. Nobody is forcing you to use this device. Have you, or any of the other people on HN who repeat this ad nauseum, ever considered the possibility that the people running google are actually just hackers who got lucky enough to have the resources to pursue projects that they think are cool? I mean...what would you do if you had google's resources? If I had google's resources I'd probably be doing exactly what they're doing. Things like trying to improve the broadband situation in the United States, protected rhinos from African poachers, developing cool future-tech like self-driving cars, etc. If you don't like modernity, stop using modernity. Move to a homestead in the pacific northwest, never use a telephone, never use grid power, grow your own vegetables, grow your own cattle, and keep away from the evil, scary spies at gooooogggllleeee who are trying to...uh...give you better targeted advertisements? Or provide you with better search results?
- waterlesscloud 13y ago
  "...ever considered the possibility that the people running google are actually just hackers who got lucky enough to have the resources to pursue projects that they think are cool?" Given that he said that, yes, he probably has considered it. You're reacting reflexively here. There's ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with considering the potential problems along with the benefits. In fact, it's extremely shallow not to.
- discostrings 13y ago
  > Good god I am so sick of reading comments like this. This view of the world is just lazy. I think your view of the world is the lazier of the two--you're basically saying "let's not worry about the negative implications of the things we create as long as our intentions are good". > Who cares? If you don't like these services, don't use them. Nobody is forcing you to use this device . . . If you don't like modernity, stop using modernity. Move to a homestead in the pacific northwest, never use a telephone, never use grid power, grow your own vegetables, grow your own cattle, and keep away from the evil, scary spies at gooooogggllleeee who are trying to...uh...give you better targeted advertisements? Or provide you with better search results? Here's how your entire comment reads to me: "If you're interested in thinking about the future implications of the new things we're creating, please shut up and go live in the woods, because you obviously hate modernity. I'm really sick of people thinking about the future and how we might be creating things that will eventually hurt us. The market comes before foresight, and commentary isn't welcome; when you have potential concerns for the future, the only acceptable response is voting with your feet. Please do that and don't ruin our fun." What you miss is that one can object to a single, potentially dangerous aspect of recent developments (personal information collection and exploitation) while embracing technology in general at the same time. In creating new technology, it's essential that we examine the paradigms we're creating. If no one's doing that, we're almost sure to run ourselves into serious trouble sooner or later. There's a reason you look before you leap. Which is lazy: choosing not to use awesome new technology because it has some potentially dangerous implications, or just using any new and seemingly convenient thing that people come up with and assuming it's got to be okay?
foxylad 13y ago
So it sounds like Google will soon be able to pop up a warning saying I should go for a medical checkup because they've detected an increase in left-hand errors that often occurs prior to a stroke. And this is without Tango - that will yield far more data about our physical well-being. Every advance humanity makes can be used for good or evil. On the whole, we tend to find more good than evil in most of them, and maybe global data capture will be the same.
- nobrains 13y ago
  Like this: https://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/ordering-pizza-2015 https://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/ordering-pizza-2...
hrjet 13y ago
> I'm not saying that Google is evil. Google probably isn't evil, but is getting naughty. On Android, they make it so difficult to avoid data collection. One example, which frustrated me yesterday: To access the Play store on Android, you need to enable background data sync. The problem is, there is no indication of what that background data is, and how do I turn it on only for the Play store. The UI is so designed that you can only enable or disable sync for all of Android, and clicking on a given app's name starts syncing that app automatically (there is no confirmation and there is no toggle to turn it off for that particular app).
moultano 13y ago
>so they can have a map of your room, too, in case they, or other parties, ever need it. You mean like the blueprints that were provided to your local municipality when whoever built it applied for a permit?
- aw3c2 13y ago
  There is a slight difference between those plans being at a state bureau versus a recent snapshot being at a private company that can correlate vast amounts of data from you and others.
sidcool 13y ago
We should stop using Google products that case.

by SiVal 13y ago

sixothree 13y ago

I don't think it's a coincidence that every new product announced by Google involves surrendering more and more personal information to them. Just once I would love to be proven wrong. But Google just seems like the neediest, clingiest, nosiest spouse one could ever have.

psbp 13y ago
What's the disconnect between Google's value and the information they gather. Obviously that's intentional most of the time, but it doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.
batmansbelt 13y ago
There is no need to throw in the casual sexism into your valid criticism. It diminishes your point.
- sixothree 13y ago
  You are correct. I did not mean to imply that. I'm fully aware men can have all of those same traits and more.
- shykes 13y ago
  Isn't spouse gender-neutral?
  - Gigablah 13y ago
    Maybe the post was edited afterwards?
  - sixothree 13y ago
    I did edit that particular word.
- frogpelt 13y ago
  Ha! Now, who's being sexist?
stdgy 13y ago
What about this product is requiring you to surrender personal information?
- User8712 13y ago
  Well, based on the video, they're aiming this as entertainment in some ways. This means your kids are going to run around your house playing these games, sending a 3D map of your residence to Google. Or wait, you lock this feature on your children's phone. Well, you can't exactly control their friends that stop by, or even your own family or friends that visit. It's not like Google needs to map a complete picture of everything at once. If someone pulls out their phone this week and points it around your room, the location and data is sent to Google. Fast forward a couple of years, and someone does it again, and now they have a little more data of your home. They'll have millions and millions of little cameras and sensors around every corner of the globe, slowly constructing a virtual 3D world in the coming decade. So yes, even if you don't want to surrender personal information, everyone around you will do it for you, and companies encourage your friends to profile you. It's similar to people uploading and tagging photos of you on Facebook. You can lock yourself in a box, and Google is going to know everything about you, even if you decide not to willingly share information. Most of the world uses Gmail. A friend recently sent out an e-mail for an event. I think I was the only person out of 20 that wasn't using Gmail. How do I not give up my information to Google? I stop e-mailing my friends? How do I contact them? Pick up the phone? Didn't Snowden inform the world of our phones being monitored? Hmm, no e-mail, and no phones. I can't even browse the internet, since the majority of sites run Google Analytics, or AdSense. Good luck not surrendering information. Anyway though, I don't think the intentions are evil, it's simply business. Rule number one, if you deal with users, you store as much data as possible. Delete nothing. You don't know where your business will be in the future, and this data might be priceless for improving your service, or expanding into other areas.

BlackDeath3 13y ago

>With this data, they can tell if you are regularly more impaired (fine motor control) at some times than at others, or if you're growing more impaired over time and match that against the content of your queries, etc. Not that this does them much good when Google Now (or, as I affectionately refer to it, Google Later) grinds my phone to a screeching halt and plays mercilessly with touch input.

ajcarpy2005 13y ago

I feel like it would be foolish to pass up the opportunity to be studied by algorithms. I hope that the rich data about me one day becomes useful in even more fantastic ways than simply marketing advertisements to me.

Crito 13y ago
You are not being studied by algorithms. When you go to the doctor, you are not inspected by a stethoscope, you are not inspected by an X-ray CT, you are not inspected by a scale. You are inspected by a doctor who is using those things. When I make decisions about consent, I am not primarily considering if I trust the tool. I am considering if I trust the person using the tool. My doctor wants to stick me in an X-ray CT? Okay, I'll consent to that. My employer or my insurance company wants to stick me in an X-ray CT? They can fuck right off. You are being studied with algorithms.

kanodae 13y ago

How exactly do you think Google's amazing query suggestions work? Hint: it's that data that you tried so hard to make sound creepy.

PavlovsCat 13y ago
What makes you think it's necessary to store "every single keystroke, including backspaces" for that?

hrayr 13y ago

What's the solution? Stop innovating because there's a slight chance of said innovation being used for evil? I'm all for being wary of what's going on, so that you don't get caught with your pants down, but what's the absolute worse that can happen? Every single tech that you can think of that has changed the world in some form, had it's own set of doomsayers, but as a whole I think we've progressed in the right direction. You can spend your days fretting about every single tech that comes out, or you can except that the world is changing and make the most out of it. Frankly, I don't mind living in the world we live in today, I'm excited to see what comes out next.

sneak 13y ago
The solution is to stop centralized data collection. The reason it doesn't happen is because corporations don't like giving up control of data that they can keep to themselves and store forever. Many of these apps could run clientside and access the cloud solely for information, but that doesn't fit in with the Google vision of organizing the world's information and making it useful for selling products and services to advertisers. Data retention and collection practices that prevent widespread spying must be codified into law for this to ever work. Companies, Google being the shining example, (but Apple and Facebook not far behind) will simply not enforce these boundaries upon themselves, because the data is just too valuable in the context of future algorithmic analysis. Also, it's not a "slight chance". All these major innovations HAVE been used for evil, from mobile phones to wide-area networking to the web. It's not just fearmongering.
- magicalist 13y ago
  Solved then: I see nowhere in this that says that this device is centralizing any data.
  - catshirt 13y ago
    sarcasm?
- hrayr 13y ago
  "Also, it's not a "slight chance". All these major innovations HAVE been used for evil, from mobile phones to wide-area networking to the web. It's not just fearmongering." This is precisely my point, these technologies have been used for evil, but would we be better off NOT having them in the first place? Everything has been used for evil, including pencils. If we loose sight of perspective and only play on the fears, then it's very much fearmongering. I agree with you on your solution of decentralized collection being better. But I would argue that data analysis involving many data sources, including yours, is what makes a lot of the services being built USEFUL. Google Now being a good example of that. I would also argue, that targeted advertisement is much more useful to me, than non targeted advertisement.

magicalist 13y ago

It has "Java, C/C++, as well as the Unity Game Engine" API end points, and if it's fast enough to be input to a game, it isn't touching the cloud. I think you're misreading this. There may someday be a Google product that reads in a full 3d scan of your surroundings, but it's not this product. It's a sensor and some APIs. Until a device is actually released that requires you to upload all data, it seems premature to give up on it.

ForHackernews 13y ago
Maybe it isn't communicating with Google servers in real-time, but I'd be shocked if Google wasn't uploading all the data gathered after the fact. > Until a device is actually released that requires you to upload all data No, no, it won't be required... it will just be on by default, and the opt-out will be buried in a submenu hidden under the "Advanced Developer Options" section.
- magicalist 13y ago
  Or it won't do it at all? The closest analog would be the Android camera, and it asks if you want to turn on autoupload or whatever. And it doesn't upload at all if the camera is being used by an app, even if you have that turned on, which would be the same case if people build apps to use this device.
  - ForHackernews 13y ago
    > The closest analog would be the Android camera I disagree. The closest analog is the Google location services, which continuously uploads data about your position and local wifi networks to Google, and is not very transparent about what it's doing: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384751,00.asp http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384751,00.asp
    - magicalist 13y ago
      It's literally an extra camera and a "depth sensor" (which is likely itself just another type of camera). So no, the analog would be the camera you're already carrying around with you. It's far more likely (if this catches on) that this will just be another sensor in your phone that apps can use, and if Google wants to improve maps or whatever, they'll just ask people to "contribute" scans, like they've gotten people to basically make street view for them[1]. [1] http://www.google.com/maps/about/contribute/photosphere/ http://www.google.com/maps/about/contribute/photosphere/

kh_hk 13y ago

Let me give you another example that goes on the line of your comment. Days ago a friend showed me how after calling a restaurant (just a number) for doing a reservation and later the contact list displayed the name of the restaurant and an image of it. Cool, right? Joe and Foo love this feature, but do not know the implications of it: a query is sent to Google asking for the info on a number (one must presume, tied up to your account id). Google now knows which numbers you are calling. and, Assuming they do this just for restaurants (how would they know, the query is sent anyways), they might even know your food preference.

morganherlocker 13y ago
It would be interesting to create some sort of crowdsourced database for these types of anecdotes that could then be sifted through and corroborated. Something like that might bring a bit more transparency to the "deal" we all make with these types of services. I get the whole argument of "well you wanted to use the free service, so now they get to monetize your data", but what services collect and how the data is used is extremely opaque.
- cbr 13y ago
  The most dystopic uses of data are the ones where you'll never really know it was sold on. Get turned down for a job in five years because the owner paid to run a search in a private database that has something about your illicit past? How will you know? (Note: I'm not actually that worried about this -- I think society will adjust -- but I think collecting anecdotes only shames the people using your data in ways that are trying to be helpful to you.)
  - zevyoura 13y ago
    There are laws about pre-employment background checks; in general they can only be run with the consent of the person being investigated, and the person being investigated must be able to receive a free copy. So you will know. In addition, the FCRA mandates the following cannot appear on background checks: - Bankruptcies after 10 years - Civil suits, civil judgments and records of arrest, from date of entry, after seven years - Accounts placed for collection after seven years - Any other negative information (except criminal convictions) after seven years

frogpelt 13y ago

Really simple solution to this: stop using new technology. Unplug. Stay away from cities and other people who have devices.

aw3c2 13y ago
There is no reason this is necessary though, we could achieve so much with local applications and processing.

awkwit 13y ago

on one hand this sort of thing concerns me, but on the other hand that's just amazing. just comes down to trust I guess

blhack 13y ago

Good god I am so sick of reading comments like this. This view of the world is just lazy. Almost as lazy as "remember, if you're using a service for free, you're not the customer, YOU'RE THE PRODUCT!", which seems to get parroted every single time there is any discussion related to google, facebook, microsoft, instagram, twitter, or any other web company that uses ads as a revenue model. Yes, google can know what your room looks like. Google could also know literally every place you go, every message you send, every transaction you make through a bank, every website you visit, every photo you take, every person you meet, when you use the bathroom, when you sleep, etc. etc. etc. Who cares? If you don't like these services, don't use them. Nobody is forcing you to use this device. Have you, or any of the other people on HN who repeat this ad nauseum, ever considered the possibility that the people running google are actually just hackers who got lucky enough to have the resources to pursue projects that they think are cool? I mean...what would you do if you had google's resources? If I had google's resources I'd probably be doing exactly what they're doing. Things like trying to improve the broadband situation in the United States, protected rhinos from African poachers, developing cool future-tech like self-driving cars, etc. If you don't like modernity, stop using modernity. Move to a homestead in the pacific northwest, never use a telephone, never use grid power, grow your own vegetables, grow your own cattle, and keep away from the evil, scary spies at gooooogggllleeee who are trying to...uh...give you better targeted advertisements? Or provide you with better search results?

waterlesscloud 13y ago
"...ever considered the possibility that the people running google are actually just hackers who got lucky enough to have the resources to pursue projects that they think are cool?" Given that he said that, yes, he probably has considered it. You're reacting reflexively here. There's ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with considering the potential problems along with the benefits. In fact, it's extremely shallow not to.
discostrings 13y ago
> Good god I am so sick of reading comments like this. This view of the world is just lazy. I think your view of the world is the lazier of the two--you're basically saying "let's not worry about the negative implications of the things we create as long as our intentions are good". > Who cares? If you don't like these services, don't use them. Nobody is forcing you to use this device . . . If you don't like modernity, stop using modernity. Move to a homestead in the pacific northwest, never use a telephone, never use grid power, grow your own vegetables, grow your own cattle, and keep away from the evil, scary spies at gooooogggllleeee who are trying to...uh...give you better targeted advertisements? Or provide you with better search results? Here's how your entire comment reads to me: "If you're interested in thinking about the future implications of the new things we're creating, please shut up and go live in the woods, because you obviously hate modernity. I'm really sick of people thinking about the future and how we might be creating things that will eventually hurt us. The market comes before foresight, and commentary isn't welcome; when you have potential concerns for the future, the only acceptable response is voting with your feet. Please do that and don't ruin our fun." What you miss is that one can object to a single, potentially dangerous aspect of recent developments (personal information collection and exploitation) while embracing technology in general at the same time. In creating new technology, it's essential that we examine the paradigms we're creating. If no one's doing that, we're almost sure to run ourselves into serious trouble sooner or later. There's a reason you look before you leap. Which is lazy: choosing not to use awesome new technology because it has some potentially dangerous implications, or just using any new and seemingly convenient thing that people come up with and assuming it's got to be okay?

foxylad 13y ago

So it sounds like Google will soon be able to pop up a warning saying I should go for a medical checkup because they've detected an increase in left-hand errors that often occurs prior to a stroke. And this is without Tango - that will yield far more data about our physical well-being. Every advance humanity makes can be used for good or evil. On the whole, we tend to find more good than evil in most of them, and maybe global data capture will be the same.

nobrains 13y ago
Like this: https://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/ordering-pizza-2015 https://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/ordering-pizza-2...

hrjet 13y ago

> I'm not saying that Google is evil. Google probably isn't evil, but is getting naughty. On Android, they make it so difficult to avoid data collection. One example, which frustrated me yesterday: To access the Play store on Android, you need to enable background data sync. The problem is, there is no indication of what that background data is, and how do I turn it on only for the Play store. The UI is so designed that you can only enable or disable sync for all of Android, and clicking on a given app's name starts syncing that app automatically (there is no confirmation and there is no toggle to turn it off for that particular app).

moultano 13y ago

>so they can have a map of your room, too, in case they, or other parties, ever need it. You mean like the blueprints that were provided to your local municipality when whoever built it applied for a permit?

aw3c2 13y ago
There is a slight difference between those plans being at a state bureau versus a recent snapshot being at a private company that can correlate vast amounts of data from you and others.

sidcool 13y ago

We should stop using Google products that case.