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Ukrainians are making news. The country is seeing protests over a cancelled trade deal with the EU, a Ukrainian immigrant sold his company for $19B. It's easy

by yashg 13y ago

Ukrainians are making news. The country is seeing protests over a cancelled trade deal with the EU, a Ukrainian immigrant sold his company for $19B. It's easy to see why Ukrainians would want to align with open economies of the west than with Russia.

jnbiche 13y ago
Also, a Ukrainian alpine skier and her coach quit the games in protest over the treatment of the protesters back in Kiev. An impressive sacrifice, when you think of the fact that all her life she's been training for this moment.
- venomsnake 13y ago
  If that is "impressive" what adjective should we use about the people that are holding the line and dying for their beliefs?
  - deletes 13y ago
    Bravery is not limited to physical actions. Foregoing a once in a lifetime opportunity, you devoted most of your life to, is high on the list.
k_bx 13y ago
Fuck the trade deal with EU. We are protesting against beating protestors, killing them, burning their cars, beating journalists, lying about not using weapons by police. Modern Ukraine never saw anything like this before.
- aragot 13y ago
  This is also a recursive reasoning, so it's hard to go for peace after that.
- probably_wrong 13y ago
  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the trade deal with the EU how the protests began? Because lots of people wanted the deal signed instead of aligning with Russia? I know that now the protests are against the anti-protest laws and the beatings, but the EU deal was also a factor, and would probably be a factor again once the protests end.
  - k_bx 13y ago
    Yes, I was there when protest began. President was telling that Ukraine is on path of joining EU for a long time, and in a last moment he turns 180 degrees. But then, Ukraine was kind of split to those supporting EU movement and those who don't. Kiev had no more than 1000 protestors then (imho). Then there was a night when protested people got beaten by police, next morning goverment commented that "it was done to be able to install New-Year Tree!". That's when everything really started. It's not about EU now, really.
    - TeMPOraL 13y ago
      So there's no goal now, just feeback loop of increasing violence?
atmosx 13y ago
That's a very short-sighted comment, almost sad. What is happening actually in Ukraine is what you get when 2 super-powers choose a foreign country as a battlefield. The stakes are high, because who ever controls Ukraine has the biggest say in the Euro-Asia region over the other (Germany vs Russia). Ukraine could play a key-role in a new form of union that Russia wants to create with it's neighbors. If Ukraine joins then, they have the numbers to face on military, political and financial level both the USA and the EU. If not, it's just Russia basically, the others don't add much to the sum. Ukraine's elites are split, but of course they are not the ones bleeding on the street. They have average Joe's for that. This country became independent in 1991 but never achieve real independence (much as my beloved Greece) from foreign interests and now they are slaughtering everything and everyone. The liberal west is using Nazi groups (far-right wing skinheads) to physically attack the current establishment. So it's for democratic governments to use Nazis when they see fit. The government responds in a very Russian way and you get chaos. Mind you, that Yanukovych was at least elected and the people do not trust the opposition's leader either (and how could they?). None of this is for the good of Ukranian people, this is just foreign super-powers tearing a country apart, for their own sake. Everything else is for mass consumption. Both sides are equally corrupted. I feel sorry for the Ukrainian population because they are caught up on a spiral from which I don't know how they could get off, without getting hurt. ps. As for the 19BN deal, what are you proposing exactly? If you have 19 BN for every Ukranian (45M people) out there, I'm sure they will be eager to hear from you.
- hidden-markov 13y ago
  What a bullshit. (Ukrainian here)
  - atmosx 13y ago
    Feel free to elaborate.
    - hidden-markov 13y ago
      Tired of elaborating tbh. I think I'll do another Ukraine AMA on reddit soon.

by yashg 13y ago

jnbiche 13y ago

Also, a Ukrainian alpine skier and her coach quit the games in protest over the treatment of the protesters back in Kiev. An impressive sacrifice, when you think of the fact that all her life she's been training for this moment.

venomsnake 13y ago
If that is "impressive" what adjective should we use about the people that are holding the line and dying for their beliefs?
- deletes 13y ago
  Bravery is not limited to physical actions. Foregoing a once in a lifetime opportunity, you devoted most of your life to, is high on the list.

k_bx 13y ago

Fuck the trade deal with EU. We are protesting against beating protestors, killing them, burning their cars, beating journalists, lying about not using weapons by police. Modern Ukraine never saw anything like this before.

aragot 13y ago
This is also a recursive reasoning, so it's hard to go for peace after that.
probably_wrong 13y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the trade deal with the EU how the protests began? Because lots of people wanted the deal signed instead of aligning with Russia? I know that now the protests are against the anti-protest laws and the beatings, but the EU deal was also a factor, and would probably be a factor again once the protests end.
- k_bx 13y ago
  Yes, I was there when protest began. President was telling that Ukraine is on path of joining EU for a long time, and in a last moment he turns 180 degrees. But then, Ukraine was kind of split to those supporting EU movement and those who don't. Kiev had no more than 1000 protestors then (imho). Then there was a night when protested people got beaten by police, next morning goverment commented that "it was done to be able to install New-Year Tree!". That's when everything really started. It's not about EU now, really.
  - TeMPOraL 13y ago
    So there's no goal now, just feeback loop of increasing violence?

atmosx 13y ago

That's a very short-sighted comment, almost sad. What is happening actually in Ukraine is what you get when 2 super-powers choose a foreign country as a battlefield. The stakes are high, because who ever controls Ukraine has the biggest say in the Euro-Asia region over the other (Germany vs Russia). Ukraine could play a key-role in a new form of union that Russia wants to create with it's neighbors. If Ukraine joins then, they have the numbers to face on military, political and financial level both the USA and the EU. If not, it's just Russia basically, the others don't add much to the sum. Ukraine's elites are split, but of course they are not the ones bleeding on the street. They have average Joe's for that. This country became independent in 1991 but never achieve real independence (much as my beloved Greece) from foreign interests and now they are slaughtering everything and everyone. The liberal west is using Nazi groups (far-right wing skinheads) to physically attack the current establishment. So it's for democratic governments to use Nazis when they see fit. The government responds in a very Russian way and you get chaos. Mind you, that Yanukovych was at least elected and the people do not trust the opposition's leader either (and how could they?). None of this is for the good of Ukranian people, this is just foreign super-powers tearing a country apart, for their own sake. Everything else is for mass consumption. Both sides are equally corrupted. I feel sorry for the Ukrainian population because they are caught up on a spiral from which I don't know how they could get off, without getting hurt. ps. As for the 19BN deal, what are you proposing exactly? If you have 19 BN for every Ukranian (45M people) out there, I'm sure they will be eager to hear from you.

hidden-markov 13y ago
What a bullshit. (Ukrainian here)
- atmosx 13y ago
  Feel free to elaborate.
  - hidden-markov 13y ago
    Tired of elaborating tbh. I think I'll do another Ukraine AMA on reddit soon.