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Ukraine protests: Before and after photos from Kiev's battle zone

120 points by pserwylo 13y ago

yashg 13y ago
Ukrainians are making news. The country is seeing protests over a cancelled trade deal with the EU, a Ukrainian immigrant sold his company for $19B. It's easy to see why Ukrainians would want to align with open economies of the west than with Russia.
- jnbiche 13y ago
  Also, a Ukrainian alpine skier and her coach quit the games in protest over the treatment of the protesters back in Kiev. An impressive sacrifice, when you think of the fact that all her life she's been training for this moment.
  - venomsnake 13y ago
    If that is "impressive" what adjective should we use about the people that are holding the line and dying for their beliefs?
    - deletes 13y ago
      Bravery is not limited to physical actions. Foregoing a once in a lifetime opportunity, you devoted most of your life to, is high on the list.
- k_bx 13y ago
  Fuck the trade deal with EU. We are protesting against beating protestors, killing them, burning their cars, beating journalists, lying about not using weapons by police. Modern Ukraine never saw anything like this before.
  - aragot 13y ago
    This is also a recursive reasoning, so it's hard to go for peace after that.
  - probably_wrong 13y ago
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the trade deal with the EU how the protests began? Because lots of people wanted the deal signed instead of aligning with Russia? I know that now the protests are against the anti-protest laws and the beatings, but the EU deal was also a factor, and would probably be a factor again once the protests end.
    - k_bx 13y ago
      Yes, I was there when protest began. President was telling that Ukraine is on path of joining EU for a long time, and in a last moment he turns 180 degrees. But then, Ukraine was kind of split to those supporting EU movement and those who don't. Kiev had no more than 1000 protestors then (imho). Then there was a night when protested people got beaten by police, next morning goverment commented that "it was done to be able to install New-Year Tree!". That's when everything really started. It's not about EU now, really.
      - TeMPOraL 13y ago
        So there's no goal now, just feeback loop of increasing violence?
- atmosx 13y ago
  That's a very short-sighted comment, almost sad. What is happening actually in Ukraine is what you get when 2 super-powers choose a foreign country as a battlefield. The stakes are high, because who ever controls Ukraine has the biggest say in the Euro-Asia region over the other (Germany vs Russia). Ukraine could play a key-role in a new form of union that Russia wants to create with it's neighbors. If Ukraine joins then, they have the numbers to face on military, political and financial level both the USA and the EU. If not, it's just Russia basically, the others don't add much to the sum. Ukraine's elites are split, but of course they are not the ones bleeding on the street. They have average Joe's for that. This country became independent in 1991 but never achieve real independence (much as my beloved Greece) from foreign interests and now they are slaughtering everything and everyone. The liberal west is using Nazi groups (far-right wing skinheads) to physically attack the current establishment. So it's for democratic governments to use Nazis when they see fit. The government responds in a very Russian way and you get chaos. Mind you, that Yanukovych was at least elected and the people do not trust the opposition's leader either (and how could they?). None of this is for the good of Ukranian people, this is just foreign super-powers tearing a country apart, for their own sake. Everything else is for mass consumption. Both sides are equally corrupted. I feel sorry for the Ukrainian population because they are caught up on a spiral from which I don't know how they could get off, without getting hurt. ps. As for the 19BN deal, what are you proposing exactly? If you have 19 BN for every Ukranian (45M people) out there, I'm sure they will be eager to hear from you.
  - hidden-markov 13y ago
    What a bullshit. (Ukrainian here)
    - atmosx 13y ago
      Feel free to elaborate.
      - hidden-markov 13y ago
        Tired of elaborating tbh. I think I'll do another Ukraine AMA on reddit soon.
ck2 13y ago
I'm kind of amazed how few dead there are. If this happened in the USA, every single protester (and innocent bystander) would be in jail or dead by now. I heard they forced the retirement of head of the army who was refusing shooting on their own people and put the head of the navy in charge? Doesn't sound like it is going to end well.
- k_bx 13y ago
  I'm amazed to see comment like this. Do you really say that in USA president could beat-out peaceful protest (yes, they started completely peaceful, I was there), and later say "it was done in order to install new-year tree"?
  - ck2 13y ago
    You need to tune into our RNC and DNC conventions every 4 years. These are the two political parties that vote themselves millions of taxpayer funded "security" spending for their conventions in congress. Protesters are beaten and locked up almost immediately, huge "pens" are made to coral them like animals, and recently the new tactic is to make "safe zones" where people are not even allowed near the events anymore. If there was even a hint of weapons being used, our police are heavily militarized now and would not hesitate to shoot someone even holding a smartphone if they thought they could get away with it. Virtually no police are prosecuted in any given year for shooting unarmed people in the USA, happens every week. However what you have in the Ukraine is something I am jealous of, people actually care.
    - k_bx 13y ago
      More than 10 people were shot today by snipers. Nothing to be jealous about.
      - usaphp 13y ago
        As far as I heard, the sniper was from the opposition, and he shot police officers, no?
k_bx 13y ago
Слава Україні! Хлопці та жінки, вибачте що не з вами, що не в Києві! Сподіваємось, що знайдемо змогу вам допомогти!
- gus_massa 13y ago
  Autotranslation: > Glory to Ukraine! Men and women, sorry not with you, not in Kiev! We hope that you find an opportunity to help!
  - Evgeniuz 13y ago
    > Glory to Ukraine! Men and women, sorry for not being with you in Kyiv. I'm hoping that we'll find a way to help you. I'm ukrainian, so I may have messed up english grammar.
    - shitgoose 13y ago
      Not only grammar:(
randomview 13y ago
There is no way out for Yanukovich now. He will become the next Assad in the eyes of the freedom-loving world. The script is: - a group of peaceful protesters takes to the streets with legitimate grievances (corruption, disagreement with the govt policy etc.) - a few extremists start shooting up the police with live ammunition. - the police suffers casualties, becomes demoralized, cannot keep order. - the army is brought in, starts firing live ammunition, civilians suffer casualties. - much large part of common people becomes radicalized, takes anti-government side. - civil war begins The early stages of Syrian destabilization scenario followed exactly the same path. In Syria they used extreme Islamist to infiltrate border cities, shoot up the police and force heavy measures from the state. In Ukraine they are now using extreme nationalists to do the same. It's Catch 22 and there is no way out. Yanukovich should give up and join the freaking EU already.
Kiro 13y ago
I remember an interview in the early stages of the protest where the demonstrators were so proud of their non-violent and peacefully organized demonstration, showing how elderly people helped with logistics etc. How do they feel now?
- levosmetalo 13y ago
  They could still be proud. They are not the ones that started the violence. If someone attacks you, multiple times, with disproportionate force, and you somehow manage to survive and fight back, you can still be proud that you wanted peace and not violence. According to your comment I guess you would like them to be ashamed that they were forced to defend and retreat instead of fighting back?
  - powertower 13y ago
    This recent event started when the protestors killed a bunch of retreating cops with bullets, firebombs, and other lethal means. And then took 50 of them hostage. In 1 years time it will turn out that everything you have been told was a lie. Just like in the last 5-6 wars. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid.
    - IgorPartola 13y ago
      Citation needed. As far as I know the protesters never fired a single gun.
      - shitgoose 13y ago
        http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2014/01/140124_Ukraine/140124_FOR_Ukraine-04.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/news_and_pol... http://imbo01.vg.no/users/bildespesial/images/47512aad5746852d103cf5002d9c8ad9.jpg?t[]=crop%3Ax%3D0%2Cy%3D0%2Cwidth%3D3724%2Cheight%3D2700&t[]=maxSize%3Awidth%3D990%2Cheight%3D660&accessToken=e1ba67fec98678c7bf3b3847042b51384b48e547fd8c8ef985c84d1199fb509a http://imbo01.vg.no/users/bildespesial/images/47512aad574685... http://i.imgur.com/ZeDmQqc.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/ZeDmQqc.jpg?1 http://totallycoolpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/20140219_kiev_riots_2/ukraine_protests2_048.jpg http://totallycoolpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/20140219_k... Story about opposition taking hostage dozens of police is all over the news (Russian news at least, I am not sure if it is reaching the English-speaking media yet).
sandro18 13y ago
Live stream: http://www.livestation.com/en/reuters http://www.livestation.com/en/reuters
- zzzcpan 13y ago
  There is a whole sticky topic on reddit with translation links, just in case someone is looking.
thearn4 13y ago
I have a hard time imagining what the best-case is among the likely scenarios for Ukraine, moving forward. Stepdown of their president, and then business as usual? A full military coup (like Egypt)?
- eps 13y ago
  It's likely now that Ukraine will end up getting split into two countires. To Russia Ukraine is a safety buffer between it and the EU, it's a matter of national security. Russia simply won't let Ukraine go, not without imposing severe economic sanctions, so Ukraine will suffer the split from Russia far more than it suffers now. On the other end, EU won't likely accept Ukraine with such sanctions attached. They already have Germany paying for Greece, Spain and Italy. Getting another mouth to feed will be hard to impossible to justify, regardless of how noble the motives are. It's a stalemate. The only way forward for Ukraine is to let Russia have its safety buffer. If they want to join EU, they will have to split.
- IgorPartola 13y ago
  Well, things are at a stalemate now. Yanukovych cannot step down. He will literally be murdered if he does. His only protection is being the president. On the other hand while he remains in power the people will be protesting. I think a likely course will be a "least of all evils" scenario. Yanukovych will make concessions to the opposition leaders who will then try to mollify the crowds. The EU treaty will be put back on the table and things will be dragged out for the long haul.
RRRA 13y ago
Murder... http://videos.lexpress.fr/actualite/monde/video-ukraine-des-tirs-de-sniper-sur-les-manifestants_1493718.html http://videos.lexpress.fr/actualite/monde/video-ukraine-des-...
- blackhaz 13y ago
  Pro-Russian snipers shooting medics as well.
  - elementai 13y ago
    Why would any sane sniper shoot medics to death? What are they, instantly healing combatants to full hp? Even if snipers would be so evil, it's much more demanding for the enemy to have wounded people because it distracts and takes off resources. Sniper tactics is completely different from shooting non-priority targets, it's usually enemy leaders, machinegunners, other snipers and so on. Medics are civilians and only provocators would choose them as targets.
    - vetinari 13y ago
      As usual, cui bono? What can the UA government gain from ordering to shoot the medics, and what can the rioters gain?
powertower 13y ago
Considering what has happened in the last 12 years of global conflict, and the type of truth that has been reveled after-the-fact, it's amazing how many ignorant and absolutely biased people this thread has, all proclaiming the same old "we must support the peace-loving freedom fighters" and "Putin is evil" cliché.
- blackhaz 13y ago
  Because Putin is evil. He supports an authoritarian regime set by organized crime that kidnaps, tortures and kills people.
  - shitgoose 13y ago
    You forgot to mention Bitcoins and child pornography.
  - vetinari 13y ago
    He also eats babies for breakfast and in the spare time steals lolipops from small children.
- adrenalinup 13y ago
  ""Putin is evil" cliché" ? That's not a cliché at all. If you're saying that Ukraine == Middle East then you could say that USSR == Middle East. That's not true at all. Russia is crushing nearby countries. Georgia with South Ossetia in 2008. Moldova with Transnistria in 1992. Chechnya. Now they are crushing Ukrainian people for not loving their pro-Russian president.
  - dijit 13y ago
    ugh, it comes down to this; Ukraine is in dire straits, their main import is gas from russia, by way of pipelines, which are then collected and exported- they're basing their whole economy on this and it's failing... very soon there wouldn't even be a country.. so, they went to Europe and asked for aid.. Europe said "If you comply with our sanctions on becoming an EU associate (not member) then we'll give you 1billion euros." which, on the scale of a country isn't a whole bunch of cash, and adhering to the sanctions would cost more than that in of itself. Putin said "if you don't join the EU (as an associate, not member) then I'll give you 15 billion euros and 50% off the price of our Russias gas" to me, that sounds like a better long term solution to get the Ukraine out of this problem, and, it sounded like that to the Ukraine government, so they signed the agreement with Putin, however, everyone has heard about the EU, and they're very hopeful they'd be able to join as a member. the Ukraine people have this vision of free travel to other countries and it's clouding their judgment a lot. quite a few things have been signed to admonish the protesters and protect them against legal troubles (at the EU request), but the requirement was that the protests cease.. they took the police aside, and issued a no fire order, but clear the square. They didn't even give the officers guns. Now, people who seem to be there are causing damage and trouble, I'm not even sure they know why they're fighting now, it's certainly not for freedom or the future of their country (as a member of the EU), lets not forget that Turkey has been an EU Associate for 20 years now and seems no closer to being a member state. So military intervention is not to be unexpected. but you're mistaken if you think there is no logic involved in the governments actions.
fuckpig 13y ago
A great article on Ukraine here: http://alternative-right.blogspot.jp/2014/01/the-great-hate-of-kiev.html http://alternative-right.blogspot.jp/2014/01/the-great-hate-... Basically, lack of national identity has made it a pawn between the Americanized EU and the Eurasian Russians. As a result, it's fragmenting from within.
vuzum 13y ago
Interactive view of the same photos: http://blog.blogvio.com/post/77297366370/ukraine-protests http://blog.blogvio.com/post/77297366370/ukraine-protests

120 points by pserwylo 13y ago

yashg 13y ago

Ukrainians are making news. The country is seeing protests over a cancelled trade deal with the EU, a Ukrainian immigrant sold his company for $19B. It's easy to see why Ukrainians would want to align with open economies of the west than with Russia.

jnbiche 13y ago
Also, a Ukrainian alpine skier and her coach quit the games in protest over the treatment of the protesters back in Kiev. An impressive sacrifice, when you think of the fact that all her life she's been training for this moment.
- venomsnake 13y ago
  If that is "impressive" what adjective should we use about the people that are holding the line and dying for their beliefs?
  - deletes 13y ago
    Bravery is not limited to physical actions. Foregoing a once in a lifetime opportunity, you devoted most of your life to, is high on the list.
k_bx 13y ago
Fuck the trade deal with EU. We are protesting against beating protestors, killing them, burning their cars, beating journalists, lying about not using weapons by police. Modern Ukraine never saw anything like this before.
- aragot 13y ago
  This is also a recursive reasoning, so it's hard to go for peace after that.
- probably_wrong 13y ago
  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the trade deal with the EU how the protests began? Because lots of people wanted the deal signed instead of aligning with Russia? I know that now the protests are against the anti-protest laws and the beatings, but the EU deal was also a factor, and would probably be a factor again once the protests end.
  - k_bx 13y ago
    Yes, I was there when protest began. President was telling that Ukraine is on path of joining EU for a long time, and in a last moment he turns 180 degrees. But then, Ukraine was kind of split to those supporting EU movement and those who don't. Kiev had no more than 1000 protestors then (imho). Then there was a night when protested people got beaten by police, next morning goverment commented that "it was done to be able to install New-Year Tree!". That's when everything really started. It's not about EU now, really.
    - TeMPOraL 13y ago
      So there's no goal now, just feeback loop of increasing violence?
atmosx 13y ago
That's a very short-sighted comment, almost sad. What is happening actually in Ukraine is what you get when 2 super-powers choose a foreign country as a battlefield. The stakes are high, because who ever controls Ukraine has the biggest say in the Euro-Asia region over the other (Germany vs Russia). Ukraine could play a key-role in a new form of union that Russia wants to create with it's neighbors. If Ukraine joins then, they have the numbers to face on military, political and financial level both the USA and the EU. If not, it's just Russia basically, the others don't add much to the sum. Ukraine's elites are split, but of course they are not the ones bleeding on the street. They have average Joe's for that. This country became independent in 1991 but never achieve real independence (much as my beloved Greece) from foreign interests and now they are slaughtering everything and everyone. The liberal west is using Nazi groups (far-right wing skinheads) to physically attack the current establishment. So it's for democratic governments to use Nazis when they see fit. The government responds in a very Russian way and you get chaos. Mind you, that Yanukovych was at least elected and the people do not trust the opposition's leader either (and how could they?). None of this is for the good of Ukranian people, this is just foreign super-powers tearing a country apart, for their own sake. Everything else is for mass consumption. Both sides are equally corrupted. I feel sorry for the Ukrainian population because they are caught up on a spiral from which I don't know how they could get off, without getting hurt. ps. As for the 19BN deal, what are you proposing exactly? If you have 19 BN for every Ukranian (45M people) out there, I'm sure they will be eager to hear from you.
- hidden-markov 13y ago
  What a bullshit. (Ukrainian here)
  - atmosx 13y ago
    Feel free to elaborate.
    - hidden-markov 13y ago
      Tired of elaborating tbh. I think I'll do another Ukraine AMA on reddit soon.

ck2 13y ago

I'm kind of amazed how few dead there are. If this happened in the USA, every single protester (and innocent bystander) would be in jail or dead by now. I heard they forced the retirement of head of the army who was refusing shooting on their own people and put the head of the navy in charge? Doesn't sound like it is going to end well.

k_bx 13y ago
I'm amazed to see comment like this. Do you really say that in USA president could beat-out peaceful protest (yes, they started completely peaceful, I was there), and later say "it was done in order to install new-year tree"?
- ck2 13y ago
  You need to tune into our RNC and DNC conventions every 4 years. These are the two political parties that vote themselves millions of taxpayer funded "security" spending for their conventions in congress. Protesters are beaten and locked up almost immediately, huge "pens" are made to coral them like animals, and recently the new tactic is to make "safe zones" where people are not even allowed near the events anymore. If there was even a hint of weapons being used, our police are heavily militarized now and would not hesitate to shoot someone even holding a smartphone if they thought they could get away with it. Virtually no police are prosecuted in any given year for shooting unarmed people in the USA, happens every week. However what you have in the Ukraine is something I am jealous of, people actually care.
  - k_bx 13y ago
    More than 10 people were shot today by snipers. Nothing to be jealous about.
    - usaphp 13y ago
      As far as I heard, the sniper was from the opposition, and he shot police officers, no?

k_bx 13y ago

Слава Україні! Хлопці та жінки, вибачте що не з вами, що не в Києві! Сподіваємось, що знайдемо змогу вам допомогти!

gus_massa 13y ago
Autotranslation: > Glory to Ukraine! Men and women, sorry not with you, not in Kiev! We hope that you find an opportunity to help!
- Evgeniuz 13y ago
  > Glory to Ukraine! Men and women, sorry for not being with you in Kyiv. I'm hoping that we'll find a way to help you. I'm ukrainian, so I may have messed up english grammar.
  - shitgoose 13y ago
    Not only grammar:(

randomview 13y ago

There is no way out for Yanukovich now. He will become the next Assad in the eyes of the freedom-loving world. The script is: - a group of peaceful protesters takes to the streets with legitimate grievances (corruption, disagreement with the govt policy etc.) - a few extremists start shooting up the police with live ammunition. - the police suffers casualties, becomes demoralized, cannot keep order. - the army is brought in, starts firing live ammunition, civilians suffer casualties. - much large part of common people becomes radicalized, takes anti-government side. - civil war begins The early stages of Syrian destabilization scenario followed exactly the same path. In Syria they used extreme Islamist to infiltrate border cities, shoot up the police and force heavy measures from the state. In Ukraine they are now using extreme nationalists to do the same. It's Catch 22 and there is no way out. Yanukovich should give up and join the freaking EU already.

Kiro 13y ago

I remember an interview in the early stages of the protest where the demonstrators were so proud of their non-violent and peacefully organized demonstration, showing how elderly people helped with logistics etc. How do they feel now?

levosmetalo 13y ago
They could still be proud. They are not the ones that started the violence. If someone attacks you, multiple times, with disproportionate force, and you somehow manage to survive and fight back, you can still be proud that you wanted peace and not violence. According to your comment I guess you would like them to be ashamed that they were forced to defend and retreat instead of fighting back?
- powertower 13y ago
  This recent event started when the protestors killed a bunch of retreating cops with bullets, firebombs, and other lethal means. And then took 50 of them hostage. In 1 years time it will turn out that everything you have been told was a lie. Just like in the last 5-6 wars. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid.
  - IgorPartola 13y ago
    Citation needed. As far as I know the protesters never fired a single gun.
    - shitgoose 13y ago
      http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2014/01/140124_Ukraine/140124_FOR_Ukraine-04.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/news_and_pol... http://imbo01.vg.no/users/bildespesial/images/47512aad5746852d103cf5002d9c8ad9.jpg?t[]=crop%3Ax%3D0%2Cy%3D0%2Cwidth%3D3724%2Cheight%3D2700&t[]=maxSize%3Awidth%3D990%2Cheight%3D660&accessToken=e1ba67fec98678c7bf3b3847042b51384b48e547fd8c8ef985c84d1199fb509a http://imbo01.vg.no/users/bildespesial/images/47512aad574685... http://i.imgur.com/ZeDmQqc.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/ZeDmQqc.jpg?1 http://totallycoolpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/20140219_kiev_riots_2/ukraine_protests2_048.jpg http://totallycoolpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/20140219_k... Story about opposition taking hostage dozens of police is all over the news (Russian news at least, I am not sure if it is reaching the English-speaking media yet).

sandro18 13y ago

Live stream: http://www.livestation.com/en/reuters http://www.livestation.com/en/reuters

zzzcpan 13y ago
There is a whole sticky topic on reddit with translation links, just in case someone is looking.

thearn4 13y ago

I have a hard time imagining what the best-case is among the likely scenarios for Ukraine, moving forward. Stepdown of their president, and then business as usual? A full military coup (like Egypt)?

eps 13y ago
It's likely now that Ukraine will end up getting split into two countires. To Russia Ukraine is a safety buffer between it and the EU, it's a matter of national security. Russia simply won't let Ukraine go, not without imposing severe economic sanctions, so Ukraine will suffer the split from Russia far more than it suffers now. On the other end, EU won't likely accept Ukraine with such sanctions attached. They already have Germany paying for Greece, Spain and Italy. Getting another mouth to feed will be hard to impossible to justify, regardless of how noble the motives are. It's a stalemate. The only way forward for Ukraine is to let Russia have its safety buffer. If they want to join EU, they will have to split.
IgorPartola 13y ago
Well, things are at a stalemate now. Yanukovych cannot step down. He will literally be murdered if he does. His only protection is being the president. On the other hand while he remains in power the people will be protesting. I think a likely course will be a "least of all evils" scenario. Yanukovych will make concessions to the opposition leaders who will then try to mollify the crowds. The EU treaty will be put back on the table and things will be dragged out for the long haul.

RRRA 13y ago

Murder... http://videos.lexpress.fr/actualite/monde/video-ukraine-des-tirs-de-sniper-sur-les-manifestants_1493718.html http://videos.lexpress.fr/actualite/monde/video-ukraine-des-...

blackhaz 13y ago
Pro-Russian snipers shooting medics as well.
- elementai 13y ago
  Why would any sane sniper shoot medics to death? What are they, instantly healing combatants to full hp? Even if snipers would be so evil, it's much more demanding for the enemy to have wounded people because it distracts and takes off resources. Sniper tactics is completely different from shooting non-priority targets, it's usually enemy leaders, machinegunners, other snipers and so on. Medics are civilians and only provocators would choose them as targets.
  - vetinari 13y ago
    As usual, cui bono? What can the UA government gain from ordering to shoot the medics, and what can the rioters gain?

powertower 13y ago

Considering what has happened in the last 12 years of global conflict, and the type of truth that has been reveled after-the-fact, it's amazing how many ignorant and absolutely biased people this thread has, all proclaiming the same old "we must support the peace-loving freedom fighters" and "Putin is evil" cliché.

blackhaz 13y ago
Because Putin is evil. He supports an authoritarian regime set by organized crime that kidnaps, tortures and kills people.
- shitgoose 13y ago
  You forgot to mention Bitcoins and child pornography.
- vetinari 13y ago
  He also eats babies for breakfast and in the spare time steals lolipops from small children.
adrenalinup 13y ago
""Putin is evil" cliché" ? That's not a cliché at all. If you're saying that Ukraine == Middle East then you could say that USSR == Middle East. That's not true at all. Russia is crushing nearby countries. Georgia with South Ossetia in 2008. Moldova with Transnistria in 1992. Chechnya. Now they are crushing Ukrainian people for not loving their pro-Russian president.
- dijit 13y ago
  ugh, it comes down to this; Ukraine is in dire straits, their main import is gas from russia, by way of pipelines, which are then collected and exported- they're basing their whole economy on this and it's failing... very soon there wouldn't even be a country.. so, they went to Europe and asked for aid.. Europe said "If you comply with our sanctions on becoming an EU associate (not member) then we'll give you 1billion euros." which, on the scale of a country isn't a whole bunch of cash, and adhering to the sanctions would cost more than that in of itself. Putin said "if you don't join the EU (as an associate, not member) then I'll give you 15 billion euros and 50% off the price of our Russias gas" to me, that sounds like a better long term solution to get the Ukraine out of this problem, and, it sounded like that to the Ukraine government, so they signed the agreement with Putin, however, everyone has heard about the EU, and they're very hopeful they'd be able to join as a member. the Ukraine people have this vision of free travel to other countries and it's clouding their judgment a lot. quite a few things have been signed to admonish the protesters and protect them against legal troubles (at the EU request), but the requirement was that the protests cease.. they took the police aside, and issued a no fire order, but clear the square. They didn't even give the officers guns. Now, people who seem to be there are causing damage and trouble, I'm not even sure they know why they're fighting now, it's certainly not for freedom or the future of their country (as a member of the EU), lets not forget that Turkey has been an EU Associate for 20 years now and seems no closer to being a member state. So military intervention is not to be unexpected. but you're mistaken if you think there is no logic involved in the governments actions.

fuckpig 13y ago

A great article on Ukraine here: http://alternative-right.blogspot.jp/2014/01/the-great-hate-of-kiev.html http://alternative-right.blogspot.jp/2014/01/the-great-hate-... Basically, lack of national identity has made it a pawn between the Americanized EU and the Eurasian Russians. As a result, it's fragmenting from within.

vuzum 13y ago

Interactive view of the same photos: http://blog.blogvio.com/post/77297366370/ukraine-protests http://blog.blogvio.com/post/77297366370/ukraine-protests