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There are many classes of problems in computer science and AI falls into one of my favorites. If today the world had a machine with infinite CPU power and infin

There are many classes of problems in computer science and AI falls into one of my favorites. If today the world had a machine with infinite CPU power and infinite RAM we still wouldn't have a good AI. We just don't have the knowledge to utilize such resources to write an AI that could, for exampe, play League of Legends or Starcraft at a level beyond professional gamers. And it certainly couldn't write a best selling novel. It could solve an arbitrarily large traveling salesman problem but it couldn't do those other things. I think that's kind of awesome. I'm not saying it can't be done. Assuming we humans don't kill ourselves I think someday it will. But it's a long, long ways off.

codeulike 13y ago
If you had a machine with infinite CPU power and infinite RAM you could _evolve_ an AI. Greg Egan wrote a great story about that: http://ttapress.com/553/crystal-nights-by-greg-egan/ http://ttapress.com/553/crystal-nights-by-greg-egan/ Someone tries it, with mixed results.
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  Ah, but we weren't given infinite time also, so you might be able to evolve an AI, but it might take many millions of years (like it did with real life).
  - Houshalter 13y ago
    He said infinite CPU power which implies infinite number of iterations. In real life it would probably take a lot more than millions of years (because computers are too slow to simulate populations of millions of minds.)
    - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
      Does infinite energy (as infinite CPU cycles) really translate into immediate time? My physics isn't great, but I thought energy was related to mass, while entropy was related to time.
  - reeses 13y ago
    Fortunately, with infinite processing and storage, time is irrelevant. :) Flip the switch and you'll have real intelligence (as opposed to our lazy Approximate Intelligence) just in time for the immediate heat death of the universe.
    - TeMPOraL 13y ago
      Ask it quickly: can entropy be reversed?
      - aragot 13y ago
        Good idea, it might have time to say it: Nope ;)
- Houshalter 13y ago
  And what do you do after evolving it? We might have less luck dissecting it and figuring out how it works than we do with human brains. It would be a total black box. And the end product is highly adapted for the specific fitness function used to evaluate it and probably wouldn't be good on anything else.
  - codeulike 13y ago
    After you evolve it, you talk to it and tell it you want an even better AI. Instant singularity!
chegra 13y ago
Did he just say you give us infinite CPU power? Why not bruteforce it then? Starting from the number 1 to number 2^800000000 for each program it generates by that number test the program[automated test] to see if it is intelligent. If intelligent then tell it produce a book. [Everything can be seen as a state space search.]
- twoodfin 13y ago
  [automated test] is the hard part.
  - Houshalter 13y ago
    Not really. Just pick your favorite AI problem and see how well it does on that. Pick a bunch of AI problems and see how well it does on all of them. Weight the algorithms by simplicity if you are worried about it over-fitting.
    - twoodfin 13y ago
      With this hypothetical infinite speed computer you will get solutions that are perfect matches for your test cases but essentially random for all other inputs.
      - marvin 13y ago
        I really don't see what's so controversial about this. The universe can, as far as our understanding of physics dictates, be simulated in finite computational time. This experiment dictates infinite computational time. Evolution is a purely physical process. Make up a series of tests more or equally complex to those evolution present, and you'll end up with intelligence - unless there happens to be something very, very special about human intelligence as opposed to other forms of intelligence. Humans are currently a local maximum in the space of intelligences which have been explored by evolution.
        twoodfin 13y ago
maaku 13y ago
With infinite CPU power and infinite RAM, fully general artificial intelligence is a trivial problem (see: Marcus Hutter's AIXI). AI is an optimization problem: how do you build smart software within realistic constraints.
- altcognito 13y ago
  AI is a software problem as well as a hardware problem. It's ridiculous to assume we understand the underlying model of the function of the human brain in general. We don't even understand the physics of it all yet. Be optimistic about AI, but don't be fooled -- it's not as basic as hooking up transistors and thinking they behave like neurons.
  - hmsimha 13y ago
    Theoretically maaku is right. With infinite RAM and CPU you would just have to execute every random string of bytes until one of them happens to be strong AI. Of course, there's probably less than 1% chance of it being friendly...
    - nikbackm 13y ago
      But how would you recognize those bytes?
      - maaku 13y ago
        How do you define intelligence?
        loup-vaillant 13y ago
        Optimization power, possibly divided by available resources. In a game of Chess, only a narrow set of moves will let me steer the future into a winning state. Well, the same is true for the Game of Life (the real one, not Conway's): we humans are intelligent because we're able to steer the future through probability to a-priori incredibly unlikely outcomes. Compare walking vs moving your limbs randomly.
catshirt 13y ago
genetic algorithms have already evolved the strongest SC2 builds on their own. why couldn't training them against each other build a pro level bot? i realize there are a lot of mechanics the program would need to be aware of, but they're finite. writing a bot that can learn to play Starcraft on it's own, on the other hand, is the harder problem.
KaoruAoiShiho 13y ago
Infinite CPU seriously? I think if we had even a couple of orders of magnitude compute power we can have strong AI within a few years. It's not a hard problem at all. The limiting thing is compute power (and data to compute with).

codeulike 13y ago

If you had a machine with infinite CPU power and infinite RAM you could _evolve_ an AI. Greg Egan wrote a great story about that: http://ttapress.com/553/crystal-nights-by-greg-egan/ http://ttapress.com/553/crystal-nights-by-greg-egan/ Someone tries it, with mixed results.

seanmcdirmid 13y ago
Ah, but we weren't given infinite time also, so you might be able to evolve an AI, but it might take many millions of years (like it did with real life).
- Houshalter 13y ago
  He said infinite CPU power which implies infinite number of iterations. In real life it would probably take a lot more than millions of years (because computers are too slow to simulate populations of millions of minds.)
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    Does infinite energy (as infinite CPU cycles) really translate into immediate time? My physics isn't great, but I thought energy was related to mass, while entropy was related to time.
- reeses 13y ago
  Fortunately, with infinite processing and storage, time is irrelevant. :) Flip the switch and you'll have real intelligence (as opposed to our lazy Approximate Intelligence) just in time for the immediate heat death of the universe.
  - TeMPOraL 13y ago
    Ask it quickly: can entropy be reversed?
    - aragot 13y ago
      Good idea, it might have time to say it: Nope ;)
Houshalter 13y ago
And what do you do after evolving it? We might have less luck dissecting it and figuring out how it works than we do with human brains. It would be a total black box. And the end product is highly adapted for the specific fitness function used to evaluate it and probably wouldn't be good on anything else.
- codeulike 13y ago
  After you evolve it, you talk to it and tell it you want an even better AI. Instant singularity!

chegra 13y ago

Did he just say you give us infinite CPU power? Why not bruteforce it then? Starting from the number 1 to number 2^800000000 for each program it generates by that number test the program[automated test] to see if it is intelligent. If intelligent then tell it produce a book. [Everything can be seen as a state space search.]

twoodfin 13y ago
[automated test] is the hard part.
- Houshalter 13y ago
  Not really. Just pick your favorite AI problem and see how well it does on that. Pick a bunch of AI problems and see how well it does on all of them. Weight the algorithms by simplicity if you are worried about it over-fitting.
  - twoodfin 13y ago
    With this hypothetical infinite speed computer you will get solutions that are perfect matches for your test cases but essentially random for all other inputs.
    - marvin 13y ago
      I really don't see what's so controversial about this. The universe can, as far as our understanding of physics dictates, be simulated in finite computational time. This experiment dictates infinite computational time. Evolution is a purely physical process. Make up a series of tests more or equally complex to those evolution present, and you'll end up with intelligence - unless there happens to be something very, very special about human intelligence as opposed to other forms of intelligence. Humans are currently a local maximum in the space of intelligences which have been explored by evolution.
      - twoodfin 13y ago

maaku 13y ago

With infinite CPU power and infinite RAM, fully general artificial intelligence is a trivial problem (see: Marcus Hutter's AIXI). AI is an optimization problem: how do you build smart software within realistic constraints.

altcognito 13y ago
AI is a software problem as well as a hardware problem. It's ridiculous to assume we understand the underlying model of the function of the human brain in general. We don't even understand the physics of it all yet. Be optimistic about AI, but don't be fooled -- it's not as basic as hooking up transistors and thinking they behave like neurons.
- hmsimha 13y ago
  Theoretically maaku is right. With infinite RAM and CPU you would just have to execute every random string of bytes until one of them happens to be strong AI. Of course, there's probably less than 1% chance of it being friendly...
  - nikbackm 13y ago
    But how would you recognize those bytes?
    - maaku 13y ago
      How do you define intelligence?
      - loup-vaillant 13y ago
        Optimization power, possibly divided by available resources. In a game of Chess, only a narrow set of moves will let me steer the future into a winning state. Well, the same is true for the Game of Life (the real one, not Conway's): we humans are intelligent because we're able to steer the future through probability to a-priori incredibly unlikely outcomes. Compare walking vs moving your limbs randomly.

catshirt 13y ago

genetic algorithms have already evolved the strongest SC2 builds on their own. why couldn't training them against each other build a pro level bot? i realize there are a lot of mechanics the program would need to be aware of, but they're finite. writing a bot that can learn to play Starcraft on it's own, on the other hand, is the harder problem.

KaoruAoiShiho 13y ago

Infinite CPU seriously? I think if we had even a couple of orders of magnitude compute power we can have strong AI within a few years. It's not a hard problem at all. The limiting thing is compute power (and data to compute with).