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Tone aside, I can't help but agree. My previous job (web shop) hired supposedly "rockstar" designers on several occasions, and the results were frustrating, tim

Tone aside, I can't help but agree. My previous job (web shop) hired supposedly "rockstar" designers on several occasions, and the results were frustrating, time-consuming and in the end, largely worthless. What did not help was that those people had "print design" backgrounds, my bosses loved the rendered (hard) designs, and not having any design or development knowledge themselves, these sorts of ludicrous standards were somehow becoming the norm. So we ended up spending as much time trying to render some goddamn rounded corner with a gradient for all browsers than we did implementing actual functionality, generally causing us to cut corners all around (no pun intended)... In my opinion, a good designer should know the limitations of the tools according to context and resources. As far as I know, you never hear of car designers asking the engineers to somehow find enough space for the engine, or an architect telling you that the plumber will have to somehow figure out where to put the pipes in his 36.3cm thick walls. This is 2014 and I don't think there's a place for single-skill design queens any longer. As a developer I have to learn a new language pretty much every 6 months, and generally speaking new technologies far more often. So surely, the argument that "true" designers should not have to learn CSS (or related) is moot and let's be honest, arrogant. To me, it's very much like the idea that politics or philosophy by themselves are vacuous. The world isn't waiting for your design like it's a god-send, you're making the design because you were asked to, by real people with real needs, all of whom, designer included, have to put food on the table.

seivan 13y ago
You put it better than I do. I wish I could replace my comment with yours.
dubcanada 13y ago
I would generally agree, any good designer I have worked with have been able to code for the most part html, css. Even if it is just dreamweaver or what ever. And being able to do those and have a general idea of how things work on the web allows him/her to produce significantly better designs then someone who has been doing print his entire life.
samatman 13y ago
Where architecture is concerned this is normally true, but the exceptions are interesting/illustrative. When Frank Gehry was designing the Guggenheim Bilbao, he took stiff cloth and folded it into the final shape. Actually, y'know, making the building was someone else's problem.
- mirchibajji 13y ago
  This is the equivalent of implementing the design in Flash :)
vacri 13y ago
To me, a designer sits astride form and function, melding them both. If you're not doing form, then you're an artist, not a designer.
- vacri 13y ago
  edit: if you're not doing function. whoops.
seanmcdirmid 13y ago
Why do you assume all designers are even working on HTML/CSS apps? When you get down to mobile, do you expect them to be able to code in C++/ObjectiveC/Java? A good designer will understand the limitations of the platform they are designing for. My wife designs for S40 feature phones with plenty of limitations. There is plenty of back and forth between development and design to ensure that the design works with the limitations of the software and hardware (though devs often push back too soon).
ebiester 13y ago
The solution, of course, is to pair with the designers, and say they can't leave until the edits are done for all supported interfaces. Every time. Every page. Their designs will become more practical quickly, or the library needed to support their vision will organically grow. But they need to be in the room with real consequences for their PSDs.
at-fates-hands 13y ago
>>> My previous job (web shop) hired supposedly "rockstar" designers on several occasions. In my experience, you can have designers who know the web and you can have graphic designers who don't have a clue about the web, yet decide they want to be "web" designers. The latter seem to pop up more frequently these days and I would agree it is frustrating, time consuming and incredibly worthless. Worst yet, are graphic design firms trying to get into the web and use your company as their guinea pig. Again, completely worthless. As such, I've taken quite a bit of time to learn design myself so I have at least some authority to call bullshit on stuff they try to pull and head them off at the pass. It this point, it's been my only defense and has been somewhat successful in not allowing these types to poison the well so to speak.
tomelders 13y ago
The age of the non developing designer is drawing to a close; Responsive design alone may be their undoing and good riddance I say, they've been designing to their mediums weaknesses for too long. So in awe are they of their own perceived brilliance that the strengths are a total mystery to them. I cut my teeth as a print designer and the same old complaints were there then. The designer wants an 8 page gatefold as a single page can't possibly be expected to bear the weight of their genius. Nothing less than spot varnish and gold foil will do, costs and timeframe so be dammed. The main difference being, back then when something went to print that was the end of the deign process. The web has made designers greedy and lazy. I honestly can not remember the last time I was handed a finished psd. Designer like to state as fact that they can't be expected to finish a design without first seeing a half baked idea of something built for their amusement first. To this I say: if Einstein can postulate the theory of relativity by imagining himself atop a photon travelling away from a star at the speed of light, then it's not unreasonable for a designer to imagine what the site will "feel like" with parallax scrolling. I love design, and rather than whinge and moan about how everyone else didn't care, I learnt code. Articles like the one linked to here reak of self entitlement and laziness.
zachrose 13y ago
> This is 2014 and I don't think there's a place for single-skill design queens any longer. I know what you're saying. But it reminds me that I would have loved to make a website with Jan Tschichold, Paul Rand, or so many other graphic designers who never even knew the web. (I'm sure they would also be interested in learning the details of the medium, even if they didn't want to code for it.)

seivan 13y ago

You put it better than I do. I wish I could replace my comment with yours.

dubcanada 13y ago

I would generally agree, any good designer I have worked with have been able to code for the most part html, css. Even if it is just dreamweaver or what ever. And being able to do those and have a general idea of how things work on the web allows him/her to produce significantly better designs then someone who has been doing print his entire life.

samatman 13y ago

Where architecture is concerned this is normally true, but the exceptions are interesting/illustrative. When Frank Gehry was designing the Guggenheim Bilbao, he took stiff cloth and folded it into the final shape. Actually, y'know, making the building was someone else's problem.

mirchibajji 13y ago
This is the equivalent of implementing the design in Flash :)

vacri 13y ago

To me, a designer sits astride form and function, melding them both. If you're not doing form, then you're an artist, not a designer.

vacri 13y ago
edit: if you're not doing function. whoops.

seanmcdirmid 13y ago

Why do you assume all designers are even working on HTML/CSS apps? When you get down to mobile, do you expect them to be able to code in C++/ObjectiveC/Java? A good designer will understand the limitations of the platform they are designing for. My wife designs for S40 feature phones with plenty of limitations. There is plenty of back and forth between development and design to ensure that the design works with the limitations of the software and hardware (though devs often push back too soon).

ebiester 13y ago

The solution, of course, is to pair with the designers, and say they can't leave until the edits are done for all supported interfaces. Every time. Every page. Their designs will become more practical quickly, or the library needed to support their vision will organically grow. But they need to be in the room with real consequences for their PSDs.

at-fates-hands 13y ago

>>> My previous job (web shop) hired supposedly "rockstar" designers on several occasions. In my experience, you can have designers who know the web and you can have graphic designers who don't have a clue about the web, yet decide they want to be "web" designers. The latter seem to pop up more frequently these days and I would agree it is frustrating, time consuming and incredibly worthless. Worst yet, are graphic design firms trying to get into the web and use your company as their guinea pig. Again, completely worthless. As such, I've taken quite a bit of time to learn design myself so I have at least some authority to call bullshit on stuff they try to pull and head them off at the pass. It this point, it's been my only defense and has been somewhat successful in not allowing these types to poison the well so to speak.

tomelders 13y ago

The age of the non developing designer is drawing to a close; Responsive design alone may be their undoing and good riddance I say, they've been designing to their mediums weaknesses for too long. So in awe are they of their own perceived brilliance that the strengths are a total mystery to them. I cut my teeth as a print designer and the same old complaints were there then. The designer wants an 8 page gatefold as a single page can't possibly be expected to bear the weight of their genius. Nothing less than spot varnish and gold foil will do, costs and timeframe so be dammed. The main difference being, back then when something went to print that was the end of the deign process. The web has made designers greedy and lazy. I honestly can not remember the last time I was handed a finished psd. Designer like to state as fact that they can't be expected to finish a design without first seeing a half baked idea of something built for their amusement first. To this I say: if Einstein can postulate the theory of relativity by imagining himself atop a photon travelling away from a star at the speed of light, then it's not unreasonable for a designer to imagine what the site will "feel like" with parallax scrolling. I love design, and rather than whinge and moan about how everyone else didn't care, I learnt code. Articles like the one linked to here reak of self entitlement and laziness.

zachrose 13y ago

> This is 2014 and I don't think there's a place for single-skill design queens any longer. I know what you're saying. But it reminds me that I would have loved to make a website with Jan Tschichold, Paul Rand, or so many other graphic designers who never even knew the web. (I'm sure they would also be interested in learning the details of the medium, even if they didn't want to code for it.)