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The Plus in Google Plus? It’s Mostly for Google

72 points by calvinlough 13y ago

frade33 13y ago
Social networking overall has run its course. below are the phases it has gone through like everything else. 1. Initial Launch: OMG! Cool. Signup 2. More people Jump in, it becomes even more exciting. 3. Everyone starts using it. 4. Eventually, excitement starts to fade away. 5. It becomes boring. 6. People’s addiction eventually starts to decline. 7. People totally lose their interest. 8. Eventually, it becomes a ghost town. End. Sadly, Google+ even couldn’t pass through the 2nd phase and skipped all the way to point 8.
- interstitial 13y ago
  Correction: 1. Exclusive, ego-boosting sign-up process (.edu for facebook, beta invites for Gmail, etc.)
davidnu 13y ago
This is quite insulting to G+ users to be so easily dismissed and declaring the place a "ghost town". Deeming the community worthless because it's not as large as Facebook's is ridiculous. There is also no mention of G+ fulfilling the purpose of an identity layer to tie in Google's offerings under one pictured profile like every other online service launching today. This attack which lacks any actual news and new developments is seemingly so unprovoked and so mean spirited as to indicate that there is a "google bashing" quota the author is trying to meet.
- jinushaun 13y ago
  Google had an identity layer before G+. Everyone knew that if they signed up for gmail, they had access to calendar and docs. Even if you didn't sign up for gmail first, there was already a concept of a Google account where you activated features like gmail, docs and calendar. G+ plus provides nothing useful, especially since Hangout is a standalone product in people's minds.
  - opinali 13y ago
    Not really. Some products like YouTube used a separate account. Most products had incompatible ToS so any integration was difficult or impossible. Each product that had comments, like YouTube or Blogger, or a concept of marking something as good/bad/favorite/starred/etc., or sharing, did that in a different and incompatible way, etc. The gmail account was only good enough as a basic authentication token for several products, nothing more. Yes, we could have fixed all these problems by unifying all these features around the gmail account without introducing a traditional social network as a 'bonus' (one that not all users want), but guess what? If you upgrade your account to G+ but you never post in the stream, or circle anything, there's absolutely no difference to that hypothetical scenario of "full integration without introducing plus-the-social-network". Just go to plus.google.com/settings and disable everything and be happy.
    - chilldream 13y ago
      > Just go to plus.google.com/settings and disable everything and be happy Until they add more things that are checked by default like that "let any random yahoo email me" feature.
- kaonashi 13y ago
  G+ is what people who used to use Google services because they wanted to now have to endure for those same privileges.
  - chilldream 13y ago
    Yes, exactly this. I was fine with my Google Account; now I have a Google Social Networking Boondoggle. And the rare times G+ makes a difference in my use of other services, the net effect has been worse (I'm still not over the YouTube thing)
    - spacemanmatt 13y ago
      I was fine with my Google account, I am finer with my G+ account. In my view, this makes the Google ecosystem better unified and from a lead generation perspective, more like Facebook. What? You thought Google or Facebook were software companies? No, those are marketing and advertising companies. Lead generation is their business. The free software is just the foot in the door. And a nice foot it is.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
    - davidnu 13y ago
      You should be over the 'Youtube thing'. Many Google services employ commenting/voting/rating etc, handling these in different, separate siloed systems makes no sense. G+ makes a great deal of sense that its detractors are unwilling to admit. As for the Youtube commenting system which all those who want to be derisive about G+ are quick to point to, they fail to mention how Youtube comments weren't that great to begin with and that the G+ comments they refer to are the ones rolled out immediately after the change, they omit mentioning and don't account for the numerous iterations the system received since then, and they haven't bothered to check on the comments situation since then because it would destroy their strawman arguments.
      - deleted 13y ago
- blueskin_ 13y ago
  There are very few things that can be said that won't insult some group of 100 people somewhere; just that in this case they happen to be Google+'s entire userbase.
  - spacemanmatt 13y ago
    Me and my 99 G+ contacts resent that remark!
- adrianlmm 13y ago
  "This is quite insulting to G+" Please clarify, how an insult to G+ becomes an insult to you?
  - spacemanmatt 13y ago
    "This is quite insulting to G+ users" was the slightly fuller quote. Read the whole sentence -- it's not a long one.
    - adrianlmm 13y ago
      Still, how is insulting G+ also an insult to his users? or you as a user?
- fredgrott 13y ago
  The problem is its not accurate..the worst social network in terms of user number is linkedin. G+ surpassed linkedin numbers in first 3 months of operation
spacemanmatt 13y ago
Whereas Facebook is an altruistic service run by the users for the users. Oh, spare me the breathless reporting on Skynet, please.
- Pacabel 13y ago
  I don't see that suggested anywhere in the article. But maybe I just missed it. Can you please point out where that claim is made?
  - spacemanmatt 13y ago
    I was being absolutely sarcastic about Facebook being run by and for the users. G+ and Facebook are both artifacts of their respective owners' lead generation businesses.
    - Pacabel 13y ago
      Right. That's pretty widely understood at this point. Were you just repeating what's already known, or was there some insightful point that you were trying to make?
      - judk 13y ago
        Parent was explaining how this news story is reporting what's already known, and has no insightful point.
        Pacabel 13y ago
        It wasn't a very good way of expressing that idea, if so. It makes it appear that the article claims something that it does not, without actually conveying the ideas that it was supposedly intended to.
    - spacemanmatt 13y ago
      If it's an insight that people have with the wrong expectations are disappointed for the right reasons, then you're welcome. (reply nesting level reached)
withouted 13y ago
this article is useless, why did it get up voted? there is nothing new or insightful about g+ just the same old arguments.
blueskin_ 13y ago
Google+ is slowly eroding trust in google. I've already given several nontechnical friends advice about moving away from google services as they are worried about the intrusiveness.
diydsp 13y ago
I just fired up plus.google.com again. 50% of the space is "ADD PEOPLE." The other 50% of the space is "DO YOU KNOW THESE PEOPLE." Where is the V-A-L-U-E ? Under the fold at the bottom is "Continue to Google+" Oh, I wasn't there already? That was just the interrogation before Google+ begins? I continue. Long load time. First thing that appears in 50% of the page is a column of the same people from the previous page. "YOU MAY KNOW." I can't close that window, but I can click "View more." I can also click X on an individual, but each time I do, someone even more remote appears... seriously, really weird foreign names. I start to feel bad for laughing at some of these funny-sounding names. So, over on the left, ah! A post from my friend with the title "get that art." I look at the preview: It's a thumbnail of a thumbnail with the word "site" above it. Probably the site designer's fault... But what am I really doing here? There is no 'hook.' There is no reason to be here, there is nothing compelling me. There is nothing I can DO, nothing I can move around, paint, color, amplify, organize. And about these borders: fat, fat borders around everything. So much empty, white space between rectangles. Scrolling down a bit, I see a banner "Follow things you love," with buttons for "Fashion" and "Travel." This is like Yahoo in 1997. How do they "know so much about me" that they think I like Fashion and Travel? Then, eventually, I reach stuff that's just like facebook: my friend's kid eating a donut. another friend talking about cleaning hairballs in the drain of his shower. Ok, there's a link I'd like to send to my friend, so I'm going over to facebook an give it to him. Aren't computers and the internet capable of being fun and interesting or informative and useful? I'll tell you, one facebook is enough. I don't need two of them with friends reposting their shrill political screeds from their personal internet silos. I want to do something useful and valuable with my time on this planet. As a matter of fact, I think trying google+ has made me just want to go for a nice walk! It's a beautiful day outside! Yep, standing up now to put on clothes, open the windows and stumble around the block in the ice and snow!
- gavinpc 13y ago
  > reposting their shrill political screeds from their personal internet silos Amen to that. I left the facebook years ago because of this.
- jkn 13y ago
  I fire up my G+ stream and get: A post by Timothy Gowers about Mobius strips and Valentine's Day: https://plus.google.com/103703080789076472131/posts/gYmEcGuN8xx https://plus.google.com/103703080789076472131/posts/gYmEcGuN... A repost by Michael Chui with an animation of a double star + planet system showing chaos: https://plus.google.com/113476531580617567600/posts/Y3yiBojnef6 https://plus.google.com/113476531580617567600/posts/Y3yiBojn... A post by an acquaintance about local politics with interesting infographics. A post from Rajini Rao titled "An Academic Valentine: The Science Behind Flower Color": https://plus.google.com/114601143134471609087/posts/7mWzModf9gn https://plus.google.com/114601143134471609087/posts/7mWzModf... A post by David Brin on an interesting sci-fi TV series I hadn't heard of: https://plus.google.com/116665417191671711571/posts/CJFcZkUfKen https://plus.google.com/116665417191671711571/posts/CJFcZkUf... A report from Human Rights Watch on sectarian violence in the Central African Republic: https://plus.google.com/113055770163061121890/posts/jYRxedABgho https://plus.google.com/113055770163061121890/posts/jYRxedAB... A repost by Romain Guy about an open source live wallpaper for Android that shows works of art: https://plus.google.com/109538161516040592207/posts/1zueVNE8zMS https://plus.google.com/109538161516040592207/posts/1zueVNE8... A post from the EFF on the history of surveillance and the Black community: https://plus.google.com/113175636916099066477/posts/ZUoVA3u5R7W https://plus.google.com/113175636916099066477/posts/ZUoVA3u5... There's quite some noise around those posts of course, but far less than on Twitter, and the pictures make it easier for me to sift through it. I'm not a fan of social networks but I like to check my G+ stream now and then when I'm bored on the computer. I definitely don't use it as a Facebook replacement (which I don't really use at all actually...).
heydenberk 13y ago
>> Before Google released Plus, the company might not have known that you were the same person when you searched, watched videos and used maps. They did know that you were the same person. You maintained the same session. They may have had limited legal ability to actually use the data from the different services, but I imagine that could have been accomplished with a Terms of Service change without a new over-arching social application.
- okasaki 13y ago
  That's exactly what they did. In Jan 2012: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/updating-our-privacy-policies-and-terms.html http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/updating-our-privacy-...
r0h1n 13y ago
IANAL, but "giving away" billions of dollars of prime ad space to entice businesses to sign up for G+, how is that not predatory pricing? [0] > The company has also pushed brands to join Plus, offering a powerful incentive in exchange — prime placement on the right-hand side of search results, with photos and promotional posts. > “It is literally promotion that money can’t buy,” Mr. Elliott said. “It is something that Google could make billions off of if they sell that space tomorrow, and they’re giving it away to try to get people onto the social platform.” [0] http://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct/predatory-or-below-cost http://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-an...
- eli 13y ago
  Isn't giving away services for free how nearly every consumer internet startup works, at least until they figure out a business plan.
  - r0h1n 13y ago
    (a) Google isn't like "nearly every consumer startup". It is arguably the most powerful Internet company in the world. Thus its actions must be viewed differently. (b) In this case Google is using its dominance in the search space (70-90% in many markets) to push G+ on customers who may not normally have signed up for it.
    - spacemanmatt 13y ago
      While it's true Google enjoys a near monopoly (maybe an actual monopoly, I'm not intending to split that hair) but it's very important to make the distinction between a natural monopoly and an illegal monopoly.
      - gress 13y ago
        The monopoly isn't illegal, but having one affects the legality of certain competitive behaviors such as dumping.
- 13y ago
fidotron 13y ago
I can't be the only one that has to use G+ merely to communicate with Google on different issues. Much of the tech community on there are probably like this, either directly, or by proxy. In every other sense it's terrible, especially the "you have these pictures for sharing" stuff. No, maybe I want to backup my photos and not share them. Incomprehensible behaviour, clearly. Hangouts still baffles me as well. Why didn't they just leave gmail chat as it was? I have not met a single person that believes this was an improvement. That said, I've quit G+ twice now, but because of the work related stuff have kept having to go back. One day it will snap again.
krapp 13y ago
Why, it's almost as if Google is a business, and they decided that being more Facebook than Facebook would make them a ton more money...
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
habosa 13y ago
This article goes out of its way to make Google+ look bad when it comes to numbers. "Plus has 29 million unique monthly users on its website and 41 million on smartphones, with some users overlapping, compared with Facebook’s 128 million users on its website and 108 million on phones, according to Nielsen." Is that supposed to be a bad thing? If you have ~1/4 to ~1/2 as many users as Facebook, are you not a very successful social network? If Plus was an independent startup people would be crowning it the next Facebook and saying that Facebook better watch its back. With all numbers in this article the author seems to say that if you don't have as many users as Facebook, you're nothing. Plus is a Top-5 social network that also offers a convenient solution to Google's many-account problem. Sounds like it's doing just fine.
- rlu 13y ago
  Gonna make some guesses: 1. I have in the past counted as a unique monthly user by Googling something (restaraunt, hotel, ??) and then looking at the "Google Reviews" which would take you to a plus.google.com page. It seems Google changed the UI on this now: "Google reviews" brings up a popup thing and the hours and everything else is on a card on the right of search results. Good on them for changing it, but do I still count as a user by having consumed content which I assume come from G+ APIs? Wouldn't be surprised. 2. I bet many of those 41 million smartphone users are just auto-uploading pictures to Google+ without really knowing what Google+ is. They just like that they can auto-upload their pictures. Google+ isn't doing "just fine". edit: I'd like to know the unique monthly ACTIVE users. Where "active user" is defined as having posted something on Google+ (I'd concede to defining an active user as someone who has done an action to someone else's post, e.g. Like or Comment)
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- username223 13y ago
  > Plus is a Top-5 social network Actually spending time on five non-niche social networks sounds like an incredible waste of time. Either it's one of the top two, it fills a particular niche, or it doesn't matter. > Google's many-account problem Exactly: it's theirs, not mine. Multiple, independent accounts were a feature.
rk17 13y ago
Beside the point: I think this google plus problem is a symptom of a larger problem. Google still acts as if it's a start-up, but it isn't. It's a company with a userbase that has come to rely on their products. Building integrated platforms - by hijacking existing ones in this case - requires planning, not multiple public iterations of crap. How many times has my Youtube GUI become more cluttered because of some integration they're in the process of rolling out? People have really come to rely on these tools, they're not the new trendy video-sharing website anymore. Back on point: It's just a description of reality that Google's attempts at integration through Google Plus is causing a lot of annoyance and friction with its user base, even if the end-goal is more beneficial to both. For a lot of people their plus-accounts were made for them without their consent. There's an option in youtube to also publish your comment on google plus, which is opt-out initialy; It remembers the setting of your last post. So you can raise question marks as to how accurate the numbers Google publishes about their Plus-network really are. I'm pretty sure there aren't 500 million+ active users on the plus network in any meaningful way. The real danger exposed in the article is that a lot of unknowing users are having their search results directly influenced by brands and companies that they've added to their circles. It's also frustrating that there's no option at the moment to turn off this bias. I think this going to come back to bite Google in the ass at some point in the future (I'm already using duck2go). You add to the above the recent copy-wrong-slip-up and you could even say that there's a video-sharing website up for grabs. Because the google plus integration is antagonizing a large share of youtubers and the copy-wrong issue has antagonized the most important part of their user base: Users that upload original quality content, 90% of all uploads is crap, right? I believe the best way to handle managing a platform of this scope is the Apple way. Because when Apple releases something it's an event and everybody expects having to relearn some things. But when Google releases something it's a YAIP - yet another initiative/project. So it's really a succession of stupid moves on Google's behalf causing the negative comments, I don't think Google bashing comes into play in any way. (^-^)-
interstitial 13y ago
I just commented about this the other day in meat-space: The trouble with Google Plus is they control your identity through the email address (see Coding Horrors: worse is better). Whereas at LinkedIn you can change and/or add many email addresses. At Facebook, Twitter, HN, Reddit, Pintrest your account is not tied exclusively to your email address and unchangeable. I have several identities on google via different companies, they cannot be merged or managed.
baldfat 13y ago
the best of any social network in one word PHOTOS. Google+ photos is the killer feature. Try it. It backs up all your photos you have great editor for your pictures and then there is auto awesome.
- nemtaro 13y ago
  BRAVO! I was just going to say the same thing... My interest in Google+ is the same interest I had in facebook years ago: some site I upload and share my personal photos with people I choose. Now, I see that: 1. my photos upload automatically from my android to Google+, so I never have to worry about accidentally losing them. (and yes, you can set FB up to do that too) 2. my photos look better on Google+ because it doesn't squeeze the quality out of them like FB does. (and yes, you can somehow get FB to improve that too, but I never even bothered to looked) 3. I can edit my photos right in the browser. 4. It shows me many different auto-awesome features, and allows me to stitch photos and clips into movies in seconds... 5. I don't have to worry about friends I add tomorrow, or next year, seeing photos I shared yesterday!!! If you've had multiple x-girlfriends, as I imagine most folks on HN have... that could be a constant problem. Those features didn't all come up over night, but somewhere along the line I stopped using FB and started putting photos on Google+
- coldtea 13y ago
  Yes, until they decide it's not working for them and kill it, like Wave, Reader, Code and tons of others...
gress 13y ago
At least google is becoming more honest about who and what they are.
cromwellian 13y ago
GDS. G+ Derangement Syndrome.
subtlearray 13y ago
"Google Plus, the company’s social network, is like a ghost town." Completely false. I've been a member of Google+ for 2 years. I have over 12,000 followers, and I follow over 1,000 people. I see a LOT of activity, particularly the kind I care about. Not everyone wants or needs to see baby pictures. In fact, this is one of the things people hate about Facebook. Regarding the rest of the article, Google+ benefits Google, but it also benefits the user by creating a more unified experience. Google services were a fragmented mess before Google+ brought them together. And you can use Google, YouTube, etc without a Google account.
- blisterpeanuts 13y ago
  Exactly. I keep adding interesting people, some famous and some not famous, and it makes my feed that much more worthwhile. That said, I don't go there every day, more like every few days when I'm bored or want to post something of my own. And kudos on the huge following. I have a couple hundred followers and I'm following a couple hundred people at this point.
s3r3nity 13y ago
"Google says Plus has 540 million monthly active users, but almost half do not visit the social network." So it sounds like the "active" user count is much smaller -- where does the 540 million "monthly actives" come from?
grahamburger 13y ago
I haven't jumped on the 'we hate Google' bandwagon yet. I actually use Google+ a lot - my whole family and most of my friends and co-workers are there. I mean I don't use it a lot by Facebook standards, I'll share some pics or thoughts a few times a month. I use Hangouts constantly though. I have a big group chat with my family that's been running for several months, we use it basically the way that I imagine Path is supposed to be used. And I have group chats with various sets of coworkers, and individual chats have entirely replaced SMS and other chat protocol use. Plus - really really easy group video chats, which I actually use quite a bit because of the way my workflow flows.

72 points by calvinlough 13y ago

Social networking overall has run its course. below are the phases it has gone through like everything else. 1. Initial Launch: OMG! Cool. Signup 2. More people Jump in, it becomes even more exciting. 3. Everyone starts using it. 4. Eventually, excitement starts to fade away. 5. It becomes boring. 6. People’s addiction eventually starts to decline. 7. People totally lose their interest. 8. Eventually, it becomes a ghost town. End. Sadly, Google+ even couldn’t pass through the 2nd phase and skipped all the way to point 8.

interstitial 13y ago
Correction: 1. Exclusive, ego-boosting sign-up process (.edu for facebook, beta invites for Gmail, etc.)

davidnu 13y ago

This is quite insulting to G+ users to be so easily dismissed and declaring the place a "ghost town". Deeming the community worthless because it's not as large as Facebook's is ridiculous. There is also no mention of G+ fulfilling the purpose of an identity layer to tie in Google's offerings under one pictured profile like every other online service launching today. This attack which lacks any actual news and new developments is seemingly so unprovoked and so mean spirited as to indicate that there is a "google bashing" quota the author is trying to meet.

jinushaun 13y ago
Google had an identity layer before G+. Everyone knew that if they signed up for gmail, they had access to calendar and docs. Even if you didn't sign up for gmail first, there was already a concept of a Google account where you activated features like gmail, docs and calendar. G+ plus provides nothing useful, especially since Hangout is a standalone product in people's minds.
- opinali 13y ago
  Not really. Some products like YouTube used a separate account. Most products had incompatible ToS so any integration was difficult or impossible. Each product that had comments, like YouTube or Blogger, or a concept of marking something as good/bad/favorite/starred/etc., or sharing, did that in a different and incompatible way, etc. The gmail account was only good enough as a basic authentication token for several products, nothing more. Yes, we could have fixed all these problems by unifying all these features around the gmail account without introducing a traditional social network as a 'bonus' (one that not all users want), but guess what? If you upgrade your account to G+ but you never post in the stream, or circle anything, there's absolutely no difference to that hypothetical scenario of "full integration without introducing plus-the-social-network". Just go to plus.google.com/settings and disable everything and be happy.
  - chilldream 13y ago
    > Just go to plus.google.com/settings and disable everything and be happy Until they add more things that are checked by default like that "let any random yahoo email me" feature.
kaonashi 13y ago
G+ is what people who used to use Google services because they wanted to now have to endure for those same privileges.
- chilldream 13y ago
  Yes, exactly this. I was fine with my Google Account; now I have a Google Social Networking Boondoggle. And the rare times G+ makes a difference in my use of other services, the net effect has been worse (I'm still not over the YouTube thing)
  - spacemanmatt 13y ago
    I was fine with my Google account, I am finer with my G+ account. In my view, this makes the Google ecosystem better unified and from a lead generation perspective, more like Facebook. What? You thought Google or Facebook were software companies? No, those are marketing and advertising companies. Lead generation is their business. The free software is just the foot in the door. And a nice foot it is.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
  - davidnu 13y ago
    You should be over the 'Youtube thing'. Many Google services employ commenting/voting/rating etc, handling these in different, separate siloed systems makes no sense. G+ makes a great deal of sense that its detractors are unwilling to admit. As for the Youtube commenting system which all those who want to be derisive about G+ are quick to point to, they fail to mention how Youtube comments weren't that great to begin with and that the G+ comments they refer to are the ones rolled out immediately after the change, they omit mentioning and don't account for the numerous iterations the system received since then, and they haven't bothered to check on the comments situation since then because it would destroy their strawman arguments.
    - deleted 13y ago
blueskin_ 13y ago
There are very few things that can be said that won't insult some group of 100 people somewhere; just that in this case they happen to be Google+'s entire userbase.
- spacemanmatt 13y ago
  Me and my 99 G+ contacts resent that remark!
adrianlmm 13y ago
"This is quite insulting to G+" Please clarify, how an insult to G+ becomes an insult to you?
- spacemanmatt 13y ago
  "This is quite insulting to G+ users" was the slightly fuller quote. Read the whole sentence -- it's not a long one.
  - adrianlmm 13y ago
    Still, how is insulting G+ also an insult to his users? or you as a user?
fredgrott 13y ago
The problem is its not accurate..the worst social network in terms of user number is linkedin. G+ surpassed linkedin numbers in first 3 months of operation

spacemanmatt 13y ago

Whereas Facebook is an altruistic service run by the users for the users. Oh, spare me the breathless reporting on Skynet, please.

Pacabel 13y ago
I don't see that suggested anywhere in the article. But maybe I just missed it. Can you please point out where that claim is made?
- spacemanmatt 13y ago
  I was being absolutely sarcastic about Facebook being run by and for the users. G+ and Facebook are both artifacts of their respective owners' lead generation businesses.
  - Pacabel 13y ago
    Right. That's pretty widely understood at this point. Were you just repeating what's already known, or was there some insightful point that you were trying to make?
    - judk 13y ago
      Parent was explaining how this news story is reporting what's already known, and has no insightful point.
      - Pacabel 13y ago
        It wasn't a very good way of expressing that idea, if so. It makes it appear that the article claims something that it does not, without actually conveying the ideas that it was supposedly intended to.
  - spacemanmatt 13y ago
    If it's an insight that people have with the wrong expectations are disappointed for the right reasons, then you're welcome. (reply nesting level reached)

withouted 13y ago

this article is useless, why did it get up voted? there is nothing new or insightful about g+ just the same old arguments.

blueskin_ 13y ago

Google+ is slowly eroding trust in google. I've already given several nontechnical friends advice about moving away from google services as they are worried about the intrusiveness.

diydsp 13y ago

I just fired up plus.google.com again. 50% of the space is "ADD PEOPLE." The other 50% of the space is "DO YOU KNOW THESE PEOPLE." Where is the V-A-L-U-E ? Under the fold at the bottom is "Continue to Google+" Oh, I wasn't there already? That was just the interrogation before Google+ begins? I continue. Long load time. First thing that appears in 50% of the page is a column of the same people from the previous page. "YOU MAY KNOW." I can't close that window, but I can click "View more." I can also click X on an individual, but each time I do, someone even more remote appears... seriously, really weird foreign names. I start to feel bad for laughing at some of these funny-sounding names. So, over on the left, ah! A post from my friend with the title "get that art." I look at the preview: It's a thumbnail of a thumbnail with the word "site" above it. Probably the site designer's fault... But what am I really doing here? There is no 'hook.' There is no reason to be here, there is nothing compelling me. There is nothing I can DO, nothing I can move around, paint, color, amplify, organize. And about these borders: fat, fat borders around everything. So much empty, white space between rectangles. Scrolling down a bit, I see a banner "Follow things you love," with buttons for "Fashion" and "Travel." This is like Yahoo in 1997. How do they "know so much about me" that they think I like Fashion and Travel? Then, eventually, I reach stuff that's just like facebook: my friend's kid eating a donut. another friend talking about cleaning hairballs in the drain of his shower. Ok, there's a link I'd like to send to my friend, so I'm going over to facebook an give it to him. Aren't computers and the internet capable of being fun and interesting or informative and useful? I'll tell you, one facebook is enough. I don't need two of them with friends reposting their shrill political screeds from their personal internet silos. I want to do something useful and valuable with my time on this planet. As a matter of fact, I think trying google+ has made me just want to go for a nice walk! It's a beautiful day outside! Yep, standing up now to put on clothes, open the windows and stumble around the block in the ice and snow!

gavinpc 13y ago
> reposting their shrill political screeds from their personal internet silos Amen to that. I left the facebook years ago because of this.
jkn 13y ago
I fire up my G+ stream and get: A post by Timothy Gowers about Mobius strips and Valentine's Day: https://plus.google.com/103703080789076472131/posts/gYmEcGuN8xx https://plus.google.com/103703080789076472131/posts/gYmEcGuN... A repost by Michael Chui with an animation of a double star + planet system showing chaos: https://plus.google.com/113476531580617567600/posts/Y3yiBojnef6 https://plus.google.com/113476531580617567600/posts/Y3yiBojn... A post by an acquaintance about local politics with interesting infographics. A post from Rajini Rao titled "An Academic Valentine: The Science Behind Flower Color": https://plus.google.com/114601143134471609087/posts/7mWzModf9gn https://plus.google.com/114601143134471609087/posts/7mWzModf... A post by David Brin on an interesting sci-fi TV series I hadn't heard of: https://plus.google.com/116665417191671711571/posts/CJFcZkUfKen https://plus.google.com/116665417191671711571/posts/CJFcZkUf... A report from Human Rights Watch on sectarian violence in the Central African Republic: https://plus.google.com/113055770163061121890/posts/jYRxedABgho https://plus.google.com/113055770163061121890/posts/jYRxedAB... A repost by Romain Guy about an open source live wallpaper for Android that shows works of art: https://plus.google.com/109538161516040592207/posts/1zueVNE8zMS https://plus.google.com/109538161516040592207/posts/1zueVNE8... A post from the EFF on the history of surveillance and the Black community: https://plus.google.com/113175636916099066477/posts/ZUoVA3u5R7W https://plus.google.com/113175636916099066477/posts/ZUoVA3u5... There's quite some noise around those posts of course, but far less than on Twitter, and the pictures make it easier for me to sift through it. I'm not a fan of social networks but I like to check my G+ stream now and then when I'm bored on the computer. I definitely don't use it as a Facebook replacement (which I don't really use at all actually...).

heydenberk 13y ago

>> Before Google released Plus, the company might not have known that you were the same person when you searched, watched videos and used maps. They did know that you were the same person. You maintained the same session. They may have had limited legal ability to actually use the data from the different services, but I imagine that could have been accomplished with a Terms of Service change without a new over-arching social application.

okasaki 13y ago
That's exactly what they did. In Jan 2012: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/updating-our-privacy-policies-and-terms.html http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/updating-our-privacy-...

r0h1n 13y ago

IANAL, but "giving away" billions of dollars of prime ad space to entice businesses to sign up for G+, how is that not predatory pricing? [0] > The company has also pushed brands to join Plus, offering a powerful incentive in exchange — prime placement on the right-hand side of search results, with photos and promotional posts. > “It is literally promotion that money can’t buy,” Mr. Elliott said. “It is something that Google could make billions off of if they sell that space tomorrow, and they’re giving it away to try to get people onto the social platform.” [0] http://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct/predatory-or-below-cost http://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-an...

eli 13y ago
Isn't giving away services for free how nearly every consumer internet startup works, at least until they figure out a business plan.
- r0h1n 13y ago
  (a) Google isn't like "nearly every consumer startup". It is arguably the most powerful Internet company in the world. Thus its actions must be viewed differently. (b) In this case Google is using its dominance in the search space (70-90% in many markets) to push G+ on customers who may not normally have signed up for it.
  - spacemanmatt 13y ago
    While it's true Google enjoys a near monopoly (maybe an actual monopoly, I'm not intending to split that hair) but it's very important to make the distinction between a natural monopoly and an illegal monopoly.
    - gress 13y ago
      The monopoly isn't illegal, but having one affects the legality of certain competitive behaviors such as dumping.
13y ago

fidotron 13y ago

I can't be the only one that has to use G+ merely to communicate with Google on different issues. Much of the tech community on there are probably like this, either directly, or by proxy. In every other sense it's terrible, especially the "you have these pictures for sharing" stuff. No, maybe I want to backup my photos and not share them. Incomprehensible behaviour, clearly. Hangouts still baffles me as well. Why didn't they just leave gmail chat as it was? I have not met a single person that believes this was an improvement. That said, I've quit G+ twice now, but because of the work related stuff have kept having to go back. One day it will snap again.

krapp 13y ago

Why, it's almost as if Google is a business, and they decided that being more Facebook than Facebook would make them a ton more money...

deleted 13y ago

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habosa 13y ago

This article goes out of its way to make Google+ look bad when it comes to numbers. "Plus has 29 million unique monthly users on its website and 41 million on smartphones, with some users overlapping, compared with Facebook’s 128 million users on its website and 108 million on phones, according to Nielsen." Is that supposed to be a bad thing? If you have ~1/4 to ~1/2 as many users as Facebook, are you not a very successful social network? If Plus was an independent startup people would be crowning it the next Facebook and saying that Facebook better watch its back. With all numbers in this article the author seems to say that if you don't have as many users as Facebook, you're nothing. Plus is a Top-5 social network that also offers a convenient solution to Google's many-account problem. Sounds like it's doing just fine.

rlu 13y ago
Gonna make some guesses: 1. I have in the past counted as a unique monthly user by Googling something (restaraunt, hotel, ??) and then looking at the "Google Reviews" which would take you to a plus.google.com page. It seems Google changed the UI on this now: "Google reviews" brings up a popup thing and the hours and everything else is on a card on the right of search results. Good on them for changing it, but do I still count as a user by having consumed content which I assume come from G+ APIs? Wouldn't be surprised. 2. I bet many of those 41 million smartphone users are just auto-uploading pictures to Google+ without really knowing what Google+ is. They just like that they can auto-upload their pictures. Google+ isn't doing "just fine". edit: I'd like to know the unique monthly ACTIVE users. Where "active user" is defined as having posted something on Google+ (I'd concede to defining an active user as someone who has done an action to someone else's post, e.g. Like or Comment)
- deleted 13y ago
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username223 13y ago
> Plus is a Top-5 social network Actually spending time on five non-niche social networks sounds like an incredible waste of time. Either it's one of the top two, it fills a particular niche, or it doesn't matter. > Google's many-account problem Exactly: it's theirs, not mine. Multiple, independent accounts were a feature.

rk17 13y ago

Beside the point: I think this google plus problem is a symptom of a larger problem. Google still acts as if it's a start-up, but it isn't. It's a company with a userbase that has come to rely on their products. Building integrated platforms - by hijacking existing ones in this case - requires planning, not multiple public iterations of crap. How many times has my Youtube GUI become more cluttered because of some integration they're in the process of rolling out? People have really come to rely on these tools, they're not the new trendy video-sharing website anymore. Back on point: It's just a description of reality that Google's attempts at integration through Google Plus is causing a lot of annoyance and friction with its user base, even if the end-goal is more beneficial to both. For a lot of people their plus-accounts were made for them without their consent. There's an option in youtube to also publish your comment on google plus, which is opt-out initialy; It remembers the setting of your last post. So you can raise question marks as to how accurate the numbers Google publishes about their Plus-network really are. I'm pretty sure there aren't 500 million+ active users on the plus network in any meaningful way. The real danger exposed in the article is that a lot of unknowing users are having their search results directly influenced by brands and companies that they've added to their circles. It's also frustrating that there's no option at the moment to turn off this bias. I think this going to come back to bite Google in the ass at some point in the future (I'm already using duck2go). You add to the above the recent copy-wrong-slip-up and you could even say that there's a video-sharing website up for grabs. Because the google plus integration is antagonizing a large share of youtubers and the copy-wrong issue has antagonized the most important part of their user base: Users that upload original quality content, 90% of all uploads is crap, right? I believe the best way to handle managing a platform of this scope is the Apple way. Because when Apple releases something it's an event and everybody expects having to relearn some things. But when Google releases something it's a YAIP - yet another initiative/project. So it's really a succession of stupid moves on Google's behalf causing the negative comments, I don't think Google bashing comes into play in any way. (^-^)-

interstitial 13y ago

I just commented about this the other day in meat-space: The trouble with Google Plus is they control your identity through the email address (see Coding Horrors: worse is better). Whereas at LinkedIn you can change and/or add many email addresses. At Facebook, Twitter, HN, Reddit, Pintrest your account is not tied exclusively to your email address and unchangeable. I have several identities on google via different companies, they cannot be merged or managed.

baldfat 13y ago

the best of any social network in one word PHOTOS. Google+ photos is the killer feature. Try it. It backs up all your photos you have great editor for your pictures and then there is auto awesome.

nemtaro 13y ago
BRAVO! I was just going to say the same thing... My interest in Google+ is the same interest I had in facebook years ago: some site I upload and share my personal photos with people I choose. Now, I see that: 1. my photos upload automatically from my android to Google+, so I never have to worry about accidentally losing them. (and yes, you can set FB up to do that too) 2. my photos look better on Google+ because it doesn't squeeze the quality out of them like FB does. (and yes, you can somehow get FB to improve that too, but I never even bothered to looked) 3. I can edit my photos right in the browser. 4. It shows me many different auto-awesome features, and allows me to stitch photos and clips into movies in seconds... 5. I don't have to worry about friends I add tomorrow, or next year, seeing photos I shared yesterday!!! If you've had multiple x-girlfriends, as I imagine most folks on HN have... that could be a constant problem. Those features didn't all come up over night, but somewhere along the line I stopped using FB and started putting photos on Google+
coldtea 13y ago
Yes, until they decide it's not working for them and kill it, like Wave, Reader, Code and tons of others...

gress 13y ago

At least google is becoming more honest about who and what they are.

cromwellian 13y ago

GDS. G+ Derangement Syndrome.

subtlearray 13y ago

"Google Plus, the company’s social network, is like a ghost town." Completely false. I've been a member of Google+ for 2 years. I have over 12,000 followers, and I follow over 1,000 people. I see a LOT of activity, particularly the kind I care about. Not everyone wants or needs to see baby pictures. In fact, this is one of the things people hate about Facebook. Regarding the rest of the article, Google+ benefits Google, but it also benefits the user by creating a more unified experience. Google services were a fragmented mess before Google+ brought them together. And you can use Google, YouTube, etc without a Google account.

blisterpeanuts 13y ago
Exactly. I keep adding interesting people, some famous and some not famous, and it makes my feed that much more worthwhile. That said, I don't go there every day, more like every few days when I'm bored or want to post something of my own. And kudos on the huge following. I have a couple hundred followers and I'm following a couple hundred people at this point.

s3r3nity 13y ago

"Google says Plus has 540 million monthly active users, but almost half do not visit the social network." So it sounds like the "active" user count is much smaller -- where does the 540 million "monthly actives" come from?

grahamburger 13y ago

I haven't jumped on the 'we hate Google' bandwagon yet. I actually use Google+ a lot - my whole family and most of my friends and co-workers are there. I mean I don't use it a lot by Facebook standards, I'll share some pics or thoughts a few times a month. I use Hangouts constantly though. I have a big group chat with my family that's been running for several months, we use it basically the way that I imagine Path is supposed to be used. And I have group chats with various sets of coworkers, and individual chats have entirely replaced SMS and other chat protocol use. Plus - really really easy group video chats, which I actually use quite a bit because of the way my workflow flows.