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It's really easy to focus on the bad ones, but good cops exist whether you know it or not.
by BlackDeath3 13y ago
It's really easy to focus on the bad ones, but good cops exist whether you know it or not.
- sergiotapia 13y agoLike I said, don't give two shits. The risk is too high. All pigs are evil to me and I'll keep the hell away from them. If they abused a white woman in her 30's what the hell do you think they'll do to a latino like me? Pfff.
- BlackDeath3 13y agoYour mistake is your idea of "they". They aren't all one. I don't know that I can blame you for taking the "safe" approach and avoiding police, but don't punish them for your irrationally-negative outlook.
- kelnos 13y agoI don't find the parent's attitude irrational at all. If police brutality was a rare unicorn-like event, then I could understand your point of view, but it's not. Not even remotely so. I've been lucky in that my interactions with police have ranged from professionally neutral (mostly traffic cops) to indifferent and bored (cop at a police station clearly not giving two shits that I'd just been mugged). (Of course, me being a white male helps with this "luck".) But the stuff I hear about makes me wonder: if I need the police at any point in time, what are my chances of getting a cop that's helpful vs. one that's on a power trip and wants to fuck with me? I seriously wonder about that, and I seriously will think twice about calling 911 in an emergency. And that's the problem. It doesn't matter one bit what the percentage is: maybe 0.00001% of cops are bad, and the rest are good. But the perception is that a significant portion of cops are just power-hungry assholes who love being able to strap on a gun and show that they have authority over you. Perception matters more than reality sometimes.
- BlackDeath3 13y ago>Perception matters more than reality sometimes. Hence, the irrationality comment. Somebody who has one pleasant experience with a cop has had a good day. Somebody who has had one friend murdered by a cop probably never trusts any police again.
- kelnos 13y agoAnd I think that's rational. A pleasant experience with a cop should be the absolute norm and should be unremarkable. Having a friend who is murdered by a cop is so far in the negative tally column that I don't think there's any recovering from that.
- BlackDeath3 13y agoBut treating all police like scumbags because of one bad encounter isn't rational. It's a response born out of fear, and while fear can be useful it isn't always rational.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- marvin 13y agoI hate to be the "Norway" guy again, but here we go: The current situation in the US is a perfect example of one of the bad outcomes when running a police force: Systemic misconduct by police officers undermine the police's trust among the population. This leads to a lack of will from the citizens to cooperate with the police, also in situations where it would be in everyone's interest to cooperate with the police. In my country, you have to go through a 3-year training program in order to become a police officer, and these principles are underscored time and time again in training. As a result, most people do in fact trust and respect the police. This makes the job of the police much easier, which in turn leads to a safer society. You never hear normal people say "don't talk to the police", which is something that seems really weird when reading about the US. Granted, I've heard it so often that it doesn't surprise me anymore - especially given stories like the ones in this thread.
- ameister14 13y agoI think if a type of animal killed people on a regular basis but was fairly useful otherwise, it would be more rational to assume and plan for the animal attacking me and so minimize my encounters with it. To that end, if I'm going to paint that animal species with any wide brush, it's going to be the one that makes me more likely to survive.
- prawks 13y agoReinforcing stereotypes certainly isn't going to do you any favors if you do have to interact with police in the future.
- sneak 13y agoThey aren't actually good ones if they go about business as usual in an organization where there are so many bad ones.
- BlackDeath3 13y agoI don't necessarily agree with the idea of standing by when you see what you consider to be evil being done, but I think you fail to take a lot of factors into account here.
- kelnos 13y agoWhere are the good cops when things like this happen? Why don't they speak out? Why don't they throw their bad-cop colleagues under the bus? Nope. The supposed good cops are bad too.
- BlackDeath3 13y agoI'll respond to this in the same way that I responded to another user posing the same questions. Who says that they don't speak out about this sort of stuff? How many good cops do condemn this behavior? How many of them do you not hear about? What happens to cops who condemn other cops?
- forgottenpass 13y agoWhat happens to cops who condemn other cops? They get their concerns treated seriously by responsible professionals who's work tirelessly to keep everything at the department above board. [1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft
- BlackDeath3 13y agoI'd like to believe you (I really would), but you've made quite the extrapolation here, given one single link to a Wikipedia article about a guy who once succeeded at routing some bad police.
- frandroid 13y agoWould you eat apples from a bag if there was a chance that 50% of them were poisonous? 25%? 10%? 1%?
- BlackDeath3 13y agoYou're reading too much into what I'm saying.
- vacri 13y agoThere are other bags of food. There aren't other police forces. If the only food you had for the next, say, term of office was that bag of apples, you'd be tucking into it in short order rather than starve. And to be a pedant, green/unripe apples are poisonous. They make you feel unwell; they just don't maim or kill you. Plenty of people would tuck into a bag of apples where some of them were still not yet ripe.
- baddox 13y ago> There aren't other police forces. That's the problem, combined with the fact that police forces are funded by force rather than by providing a service that people are willing to pay for.
- srean 13y agoNoting your criticism of another comment on this story let me tell you this comment of yours comes across as equally if not more vapid. No one, I think, doubts that there exist good cops. But thats almost irrelevant because its the bad ones that one has to watch out for. You have not claimed so,its not a response to you, but I also dont think "only a few bad apples here and there" holds as well as one would like either.
- BlackDeath3 13y agoWell comments like "the only good cop is a dead cop" come across as blisteringly stupid. I'm primarily responding to those sorts of comments because it seems as though some people really do think that no good cops exist. I'm not speaking to the rational here.
- ryguytilidie 13y agoNo one said the thing you're claiming people say... When the entire basis of your point is a clear strawman, and your argument is literally "cops aren't bad, because there are a non-zero number of good cops, is, as the above poster said, vapid and lacking in rational thought. The idea that you need to make up an opponent to make up an argument and call it "blisteringly stupid" to make your point, seems pretty silly.
- BlackDeath3 13y agoWell, who has constructed the straw man now? My argument is "good cops exist". This is in response to somebody in this comment section who quite literally (yes, the real literally) said "the only good cop is a dead cop". What exactly am I making up here?
- ryguytilidie 13y ago"And this is why I fucking HATE COPS. I don't care if it's the few, this god damn country-wide gang is a piece of shit and I will do everything I can to avoid them and teach my two children about staying away as well. Fuck these pigs." This is what you were responding to. This person never said the main thing that seems to have incited your tantrum. At this point you're either trolling or stupid, so there isn't much of a point in us continuing here. Cheers.
- forrestthewoods 13y agoIf good cops don't publicly condemn this type of behavior then they are by definition not a good cop.
- BlackDeath3 13y agoWho says that they don't? How many good cops do condemn this behavior? How many of them do you not hear about? What happens to cops who condemn other cops? As typical of somebody posting a throwaway comment to an online forum, I'm not sure that you've taken everything into account when you make such a broad statement.
- forrestthewoods 13y agoI've quite thoroughly considered it. The police are a civil service given power and authority by the public. That power is turned around to abuse the public. Now, to whom does a private condemnation best serve? Hint: It's not the abused or oppressed.
- BlackDeath3 13y agoCondemnation that you aren't aware of != private condemnation. It seems pretty damn arrogant to imply that something doesn't exist because you aren't aware of it.
- lostcolony 13y agoEvery good cop who is managing to effectively stop a bad cop, means yet another bad cop. That is, we're hearing about bad cops who aren't being stopped by good ones. A lot. "Well, the good ones are out there!"; they're either ineffective, or effective, in which case the number of bad cops is even higher than we hear about. Neither of those is particularly placating.
- BlackDeath3 13y agoYou aren't aware of it, so it isn't so? Really? Next, you'll tell me that Fox News really is "fair and balanced". Good police exist, and will continue to exist, despite civilian hostility and shifting definitions of what it means to be a "good cop". I'll never claim that no police are bad, or that there aren't many bad police, but I know that I'll never envy the good ones as long as the people filling this comment page comprise the majority of our population.
- jessaustin 13y ago...good cops exist whether you know it or not. So they're like leprechauns?
- BlackDeath3 13y agoI exist whether you know it or not. I'm not a leprechaun. What is your point?
- jessaustin 13y agoThree parties: you, good cops, leprechauns. Of the three, with whom have I ever had a conversation? (Hint: this is a singular answer!)
- BlackDeath3 13y agoCan I ask a question that would help me narrow it down? Are you mentally-ill?
- jessaustin 13y agoIf I answer, will you explain why you've commented 25 times on this thread?
- BlackDeath3 13y agoBecause I had twenty-five responses to give, and many of the posts I've responded to were directed (if only implicitly) at me. It would be rude of me to ignore such intelligent discussion. Quid pro quo.
- jessaustin 13y agoA: I'm not mentally ill. Since I've submitted to your analysis, a turn about is fair play. I think you are a cop. You'd like to think you are good, which is understandable, because most people would like to think that. You realize that you are judged, often unfairly, by various parties. You find yourself valuing the judgment of fellow officers most, but occasionally you are surprised and disappointed by the opinion of the general public. They just don't understand your situation, they don't appreciate your efforts, and besides they don't know how the system works. Still, it hurts. At the same time, you are genuinely uncomfortable about some of the things you have done and seen being done. You don't blame the police; it's the fucked-up system and the dirtbags they have to deal with. So far you've toed the line, although you imagine there are some things that would cause you to break ranks. Every year, though, those things recede. Sometimes you wonder what you'll find yourself stomaching a decade from now. Maybe you'll switch to just working security. Got to get that pension first, though. Forget it, you're probably a law student or something. Still, that was fun.
- Brian-Puccio 13y agoNo one is denying that good cops do exist. The problem is that (especially for minorities in large cities) calling for the police is a gamble. That many white, suburban kids are taught from a young age that "all police are your friends, you can always go to them if you need help" and that many minorities in cities are taught from a young age "cops are people near complete immunity, great authority and guns; they are to be feared; you would do best to avoid them at all costs and if you must interact with them, be as non-confrontational as possible and if you are arrested say nothing until you have a lawyer". From the article ... > I was standing 15 feet from the scene beside Officer Kaur, a stocky female of South Asian complexion. She turned to me and abruptly said that I was not needed as a witness and should leave immediately. I told her we were headed home, just across the way, when my friend and I encountered the accident; and that I’d recently broken my elbow in a similar bike accident here and deeply cared about the outcome. The cop told the author to leave, the author indicated otherwise. I guess the author got the "police are your friends" story growing up, not the "avoid at all costs and be non-confrontational if you cannot" story. Every time the author got confrontational, the situation worsened. Want a doctor? Solitary. From here, the next thing is "but what about the author's rights? even if the cops don't like you, you still have rights!". Sure, and exercising your rights is inconvenient, at times requiring things like going to jail until things are sorted out. For a cop arresting you, it's just another day at work. For you, it's missing work unexpectedly, maybe some legal bills, worrying who is watching your kid in a few hours, etc. Your life goes upside for a bit even if charges are ultimately dropped or if the first time in front of a judge your lawyer convinces the judge to throw out the case. You have everything to lose and they/the system/etc. have nothing to lose (except for once in a while when it gets really bad and there's a huge lawsuit, like this recent local story[0], unless you've got some clout, in which case the mayor will call to see how you're doing[1]). [0] http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/27/nyregion/man-51-dies-in-the-custody-of-the-police.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/27/nyregion/man-51-dies-in-th... [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/14/nyregion/de-blasio-defends-call-to-police-about-supporters-arrest.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/14/nyregion/de-blasio-defends...
- BlackDeath3 13y ago>No one is denying that good cops do exist. If you'll look closely through this comment section, several people have suggested that good cops don't exist. I'm speaking to them. I do not deny that calling police can be a big gamble.
- funinobu 13y agoGo to any online cop forum. You will find zero "good cops" - only cops making excuses for other cops. This is why cops involved in vases like these need to be made internet famous, including high resolution photos so that face recognition software can be used to spot them at a distance.