3 ms·

Maybe gender is more complicated, but sex?

nfoz 13y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite#Humans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite#Humans This is a thing, there are people. Human sex is non-binary.
- Domenic_S 13y ago
  Educational but probably NSFW image on that wiki page.
devindotcom 13y ago
There's definitely a whole rabbit hole this way - lot of gender theory and stuff. If you're really curious, check it out, there are some interesting arguments (though few satisfying conclusions).
scott_karana 13y ago
Sex can be complicated too. Look up XXY, XYY, and the SRY protein. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYY_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYY_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRY http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRY
- hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
  Does any of those mutations produce fertile individuals, with both reproductive organs fully functional though? I don't know enough to answer, but I believe that's what the parent is asking.
  - RyanMcGreal 13y ago
    So people who are infertile don't count? I don't understand your point.
    - hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
      What I'm saying is, from a biological perspective, isn't sex determined by the gametes (which as far as I known, are two), regardless of vestigial organs, number of chromosomes, etc.? I think that's what caused the confusion on the parent about existing more than one sex (reproductive role); of course, by that measure, infertility is undetermined as it plays no role in reproduction.
      - sliverstorm 13y ago
        Totally agree with you. At least in humans, there are two very clearly defined reproductive roles. Test tubes and surgical procedures can interfere a bit, but you can't be "mostly" a gamete donor or "only somewhat" of a gamete receptor.
  - DrStalker 13y ago
    Some inter-sexed people are fertile, but I don't think that's relevant to this discussion unless you also declare infertile cis-gendered people to be an invalid gender.
audreyt 13y ago
http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency
dragonwriter 13y ago
Biological sex is very complex but can appear simple with limited information because (1) many of the features are not superficially evident in gross anatomy, and (2) the majority of the time, most of the features line up in one of two main ways, making it seem like a simple binary thing. And, in fact, there's research showing connections between transgender identity (where socially constructed gender -- usually based on the more obvious indicia of biological sex -- doesn't line up with gender identity) and instances where the various indicia of biological sex aren't aligned in the usual way. Its not, as I understand, apparently the only factor in transgender identity, but it seems to be a significant correlate. The idea that gender ought to be simple seems largely supported by the illusion that sex is simple.

nfoz 13y ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite#Humans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite#Humans This is a thing, there are people. Human sex is non-binary.

Domenic_S 13y ago
Educational but probably NSFW image on that wiki page.

devindotcom 13y ago

There's definitely a whole rabbit hole this way - lot of gender theory and stuff. If you're really curious, check it out, there are some interesting arguments (though few satisfying conclusions).

scott_karana 13y ago

Sex can be complicated too. Look up XXY, XYY, and the SRY protein. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYY_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYY_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRY http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRY

hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
Does any of those mutations produce fertile individuals, with both reproductive organs fully functional though? I don't know enough to answer, but I believe that's what the parent is asking.
- RyanMcGreal 13y ago
  So people who are infertile don't count? I don't understand your point.
  - hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
    What I'm saying is, from a biological perspective, isn't sex determined by the gametes (which as far as I known, are two), regardless of vestigial organs, number of chromosomes, etc.? I think that's what caused the confusion on the parent about existing more than one sex (reproductive role); of course, by that measure, infertility is undetermined as it plays no role in reproduction.
    - sliverstorm 13y ago
      Totally agree with you. At least in humans, there are two very clearly defined reproductive roles. Test tubes and surgical procedures can interfere a bit, but you can't be "mostly" a gamete donor or "only somewhat" of a gamete receptor.
- DrStalker 13y ago
  Some inter-sexed people are fertile, but I don't think that's relevant to this discussion unless you also declare infertile cis-gendered people to be an invalid gender.

audreyt 13y ago

http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency

dragonwriter 13y ago

Biological sex is very complex but can appear simple with limited information because (1) many of the features are not superficially evident in gross anatomy, and (2) the majority of the time, most of the features line up in one of two main ways, making it seem like a simple binary thing. And, in fact, there's research showing connections between transgender identity (where socially constructed gender -- usually based on the more obvious indicia of biological sex -- doesn't line up with gender identity) and instances where the various indicia of biological sex aren't aligned in the usual way. Its not, as I understand, apparently the only factor in transgender identity, but it seems to be a significant correlate. The idea that gender ought to be simple seems largely supported by the illusion that sex is simple.