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Wow, I didn't realise US police were that bad. After reading this I don't think I could ever feel safe enough to visit the US. Sounds like you'd have a better

Wow, I didn't realise US police were that bad. After reading this I don't think I could ever feel safe enough to visit the US. Sounds like you'd have a better chance of getting justice in an African dictatorship where at least the dont-rape-me bribe would be affordable. Tourists really should be warned about this, because it's not the image the US tourist boards present to us at all.

zacinbusiness 13y ago
Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, North and South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia - fear these places.
- ItendToDisagree 13y ago
  Any state south of the Mason-Dixon line is portrayed as a cartoonish land of religious fanatics, racism, and overreaction. In truth it is not exactly so, but I personally wouldn't want to live in any of those places. I probably wouldn't be happy living in the mid-west either though. It generally holds true that these sorts of things can happen in any state now. If you 'threaten' to shoot up a school (no matter how jokingly) you're likely to get reamed for it. Context no longer matters... There is a zero tolerance policy on certain words and ideas now it appears.
  - zacinbusiness 13y ago
    I've lived in the south my whole life. It's a hell hole of backwards racism, fear. I stay here for my family and my wife's job. But it's hard.
  - nervousvarun 13y ago
    Lived in the south my entire life (currently in Nola). There's definitely an I don't know...afterglow effect? with this stereotype at play in the south today. It certainly used to be highly isolated culture with it's own weird problems ("fanatics, racism, and overreaction"). These days though thanks to television, the internet, decades of immigration etc. it's pretty much the rest of the US...with better weather.
    - jff 13y ago
      Don't tell people that, or the Californians will move in and ruin it.
      - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
        The weather isn't that nice.
- spacehome 13y ago
  I was hoping to live in some of these places in the future. Would you mind clarifying why the states on this list are especially bad rather than others?
  - zacinbusiness 13y ago
    Most of it comes down to the fact that you have extremely geographically isolated people. Communities in the mountains of the Carolina's for instance may not even have a bank or a post office. These people are extremely paranoid and fearful of change, and thus they elect politicians that share their views and that, worse, feed into them with religious and political rhetoric about how the bad man with dark skin is going to take away all the things they care for most.
    - jessaustin 13y ago
      But the Western USA is much more geographically isolated. Slavery broke the entire nation, and while much of the rest of the nation has recovered, in important ways the South is still broken.
    - throwaway344 13y ago
      Not a criticism but how much time have you spent in the South?
      - zacinbusiness 13y ago
        My entire life. I've met some of the most viciously racist people that exist. And not just poor and uneducated people. Wealthy, educated people as well. There is an institutionalized racism that permeates most of the south. Not all southerners are that way. Some of us try to lift the south up into the 21st century. But it's a hard fight. And the resistance to change is strong.
        throwaway344 13y ago
        Thanks.
- marvin 13y ago
  A Norwegian tourist was sentenced to seven years in prison in Arizona for accidentally running over some guy's foot with his car. The incident happened after he took a wrong turn onto a one-way street and was about to turn around, when he was crowded by a group of people at a nearby music festival, apparently angry with his traffic violation. One of them punched him in the face through the car window, upon which he sped off (accidentally running over a foot in the process). The charge was assault with a lethal weapon (the car), the case went to trial and he was convicted. It's a circus. [Edit: Turns out the guy was not a tourist. Here is the story, written right before the sentencing: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002601538 http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002601538]
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- jessaustin 13y ago
  I wouldn't put New Mexico in that company, and much of Virginia isn't too bad, but yeah. I think it's important to remember a fact of humanity: you're generally safer on familiar ground, around people who are similar to yourself. It can be very interesting, exciting, and rewarding to be "the foreigner", but at the same time you should never forget when you're in that position. Of course one of the horrible things about Texas is it does this sort of thing to actual Texans, in addition to other people. It's really an indictment of the people of the state: could you form a decent jury, judiciary, legislature, or police force if it had to be made up of Texans?
  - gyepi 13y ago
    I think it's important to remember a fact of humanity: you're generally safer on familiar ground, around people who are similar to yourself. It can be very interesting, exciting, and rewarding to be "the foreigner", but at the same time you should never forget when you're in that position. This is generally true. However, the United States is a multi ethnic country. So the question is, does this statement apply to all ethnicities, everywhere? The fact is, for a large number of Americans, they are "the foreigner" exactly in that position most of the time.
  - dctoedt 13y ago
    > It's really an indictment of the people of the state: could you form a decent jury, judiciary, legislature, or police force if it had to be made up of Texans? It wouldn't be hard to find prejudiced ignoramuses who would say the same about the people of any state (or religion, or ethnic group, or occupation).
    - jessaustin 13y ago
      Harder than you might think, pard'ner. Only you can change you.
- Larrikin 13y ago
  I take offense to Virginia being in that list
  - esw 13y ago
    I never thought of Virginia as being a part of the cultural conservative south until the ultrasound bill.
- Larrikin 13y ago
  I take offense to Virginia being in that list
- bitexploder 13y ago
  I have lived in Georgia all of my life. It is fine. Cases like these are outliers and can happen anywhere. Look at what happened in Illinois when someone recorded a cop with a helmet cam. These types of generalizations have no place on HN.
  - zacinbusiness 13y ago
    http://m.gastongazette.com/news/local/kkk-trying-to-recruit-new-members-in-area-1.139784 http://m.gastongazette.com/news/local/kkk-trying-to-recruit-...
    - bitexploder 13y ago
      I have traveled a lot. I have met small minded bigots all over. I grew up on a moderate sized city in the deep south. There is still a very small population of bigots in almost any rural area. No need to down play it, this is a very small amount of the population. It is still a problem, to some extent: (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2428103/Majority-Americas-racists-live-areas-slavery-common-says-new-study.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2428103/Majority-Ame...). A few more generations and people won't even have living memories of Jim Crow. It takes time to heal wounds like this and that is very certainly the trend (improvement).
- batbomb 13y ago
  Oh fuck off, you obviously haven't been to half of these states, especially considering you dumped New Mexico into a list with Mississippi. How that would ever make sense is beyond me. What would you even be fearing? Burritos and Barbeque?
  - zacinbusiness 13y ago
    I wouldn't fear anything. But I'm white. If I were not white? I'd fear the corrupt cops, the corrupt legal system, and the corrupt banking system to name a few.
    - arbuge 13y ago
      Banking system? How is the banking system in those states different than the one in the others?
      - zacinbusiness 13y ago
        Because the man at the desk that's in charge of giving personal and small business loans is more likely to be a daddy-tells-me-how-to-think redneck.
        umanwizard 13y ago
        Have you ever been to the Southwest? (California counts for half credit at most.)
  - code_duck 13y ago
    I'm from New Mexico, and it's a grand place. However he might be thinking of the backwards and corrupt policing of the state. For instance, http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-new-mexico-police-search-20140116,0,186240.story http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-new-mexico-... http://www.elpasotimes.com/latestnews/ci_25024804/new-lawsuit-alleges-illegal-body-cavity-search-new http://www.elpasotimes.com/latestnews/ci_25024804/new-lawsui...
- MrZongle2 13y ago
  Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, North and South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia - fear these places. Well, if you're going to paint with such a broad brush, go ahead and list the other 38. I hear there are bad people in San Francisco, Madison, Boise, Olympia, Reading and Topeka too. Then you should start listing Canadian provinces, because surely they've got some bad apples. And don't forget Mexico, since they've had issues with murderous drug cartels. At that point you should also mention the bloodthirsty populations of Central America as well as the black-hearted people of Iceland. Really, I think only the Moon is reasonably safe but the place has gone downhill since 1969.
  - sixothree 13y ago
    I grew up in Louisiana. The police here are just plain awful. But as young adults we were always warned about dealing with and avoiding dealing with police in Mississippi. Police in the deep south are not the same as police in other places.
- bglazer 13y ago
  that's just incredibly asinine. Vanderbilt Duke UNC Rice Georgia Tech Virginia Tech University of Virginia That's a partial list. PLACES TO BE FEARED! It's legitimately damaging to the American South to perpetuate stereotypes like this. It makes smart people want to leave, or never go in the first place. I've lived in Memphis Tennessee for my entire life and I can guarantee you that it would be a better place if people didn't spew closed minded horse-shit like this.
  - einhverfr 13y ago
    I think there are places to be feared everywhere. The wrong neighborhoods in Seattle may not be so safe. Ditto with Houston, LA, Detroit, NOLA, etc. The secret is simple: ask locals. That's the best way to be safe wherever you travel.
- zacinbusiness 13y ago
  And add Kansas to the list: http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/02/13/kansas_anti_gay_segregation_bill_is_an_abomination.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/02/13/kansas_anti_ga...
rplnt 13y ago
This is not an isolated case either. I don't mean facebook-comment-wise, but rather wtf-wise. From Internet, through airports and car stops to interacting with random strangers. Lot's of horrific stories where you end up in the justice system, while done absolutely nothing that breaks the law or would endanger someone in any way. But maybe because the US is so big it's bound to happen sometimes? I don't know, but USA is certainly not on my want-to-visit list (though it's on a wish-to-visit along with Pakistan).
- Nux 13y ago
  USA is a lovely country, too bad it's inhabited. ;-)
  - ItendToDisagree 13y ago
    That didn't stop the original European settlers now did it? ;D
    - Nux 13y ago
      Yep, they sure liked it. The above is an expression we use a lot in my own country (Romania): "Our country is great, too bad it's inhabited". It can easily be extended to any country, imho. :)
      - jaimebuelta 13y ago
        I've heard the expression (in Spanish), but referring to the particular people living there (and other countries). "America is great, too bad it's full of Americans" (change to any country that you want to mock)
        Kurtz79 13y ago
        Always liked this (my traslation from the Italian translation of the original): "What is Heaven like? It has everything at its best: delicious food, classy wines, mild climate, superb views from all sides. A bit like France, but without the French." (Jeremy Pascall)
adventured 13y ago
Incarceration rate by US State: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_incarceration_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_incarcer...
hackerboos 13y ago
The US police are bad but it's the prosecutors that are at major fault here. This case should be dismissed.
toyg 13y ago
In fairness, as an EU citizen, I'd say most justice systems the world over are just shit. Sure, the rich and connected will get all sorts of rights and protections, but if you are Mr. Nobody (and worse, you were not born and bred in the specific area where you're being accused) then some sort of abuse is almost guaranteed. Look at the news in places like UK, Germany, Spain, France, Italy, Canada: people "spontaneously" die in police custody, are killed in the street while unarmed, spend years in jail for crimes they didn't commit, spend months in custody before even being accused of anything... and these are just the ones we hear about. My father occasionally had to look after kids who had some brush up with the Law, in Italy; long story short, once you enter The System, you can kiss goodbye to any sense of respect, self-worth or personal rights.
- tbastos 13y ago
  Sure, there are problems everywhere, but you cannot compare the level of bullshit in the states. Just look at the statistics on Wikipedia, and the many documentaries on YouTube and newspaper articles on it. Yeah if you're poor and vulnerable you're screwed anywhere in the capitalist world. But in the states you're screwed even if you are middle class (absurd bails) and have a good lawyer, because the government is so over its head that they will jail you with fabricated evidence and then give you no chance of justice. True, the UK is not much better than the US. But otherwise many countries in Europe are incomparably safer. If not because of more reasonable justice systems, just because people are more laid back and sane here than in the states.
  - toyg 13y ago
    >just because people are more laid back and sane here than in the states. Are they? I distinctly remember the post-riot reactions in London last summer: people got sentenced to years of imprisonment for posting banter on Facebook and Twitter, with full support from mainstream public opinion. Because we're all cool until you touch private property, and then it's HANG THE THIEF! And if you think that's just Brits being Brits, I can show you the electoral results of people like LePen, Wilders, Haider, and the laws this pressure produced... Do not make the error of confusing historical development with the essence of man: we might look more laid back and "civilised" because of accidents of history that bestowed us a set of marginally saner laws and a bit more perspective (and recent memory), but underneath we're as brutal as anyone else on the planet.
tbastos 13y ago
Exactly! I think I can only visit the states again after I'm married and with kids, to go to Disneyland... it seems the only safe venture. I mean if you're single, go to a club and get into a fight, that would probably be enough to make your life hell already... going there is like russian roulette
- jff 13y ago
  Why would you assault someone in a club? I thought you're from a ~civilized country~
- ColinCochrane 13y ago
  You can't get into fights at Disneyland either. The best bet is to not assault people.
  - tbastos 13y ago
    And why did you assume I would be the one to pick a fight? Even though I'm a peaceful person who never ever assaulted anyone, I've been assaulted several times for no reason, and in different countries. Friends of the aggressor can testify against you and then you're in trouble. I picked club fights as an example, but the point is that bad luck can put innocent people in trouble with the law in any setting...
rmc 13y ago
I've been to an Africa country. A friend was almost robbed by a member of an ethnic minority. The police brought the suspect in, beat the crap out of him until he confessed. My friends were down the hall while they heard the police beat him up and heard his cries. In the 1990s during the Rwandan Genocide, neighbours turned on neighbours and a million people were hacked to death with machetes. Get real.
- xtrumanx 13y ago
  I hope you're not implying situations found in the Rwandan Genocide are typical in Africa.
  - beachstartup 13y ago
    they aren't typical but they aren't uncommon. you could say the same thing about europe, though. especially in the 20th century, but there's time yet for the 21st to catch up!
    - gyepi 13y ago
      I am afraid you don't know what you're talking about. Genocide is not common in Africa. It's happened, but it's not common.
      - minimize_me 13y ago
        But didn't you see that movie about the guy with the hotel?
        gyepi 13y ago
        I think you are referring to Hotel Rwanda. No, I didn't. I am hopeful that this is a joke and not an attempt to disprove my point or a demonstration of your range of knowledge on the subject.
        taejo 13y ago
        That was the Rwandan genocide. It's the same incident.
powertower 13y ago
You should also stay inside your house at all times. Because if you go outside lightning could strike you. Or maybe you'll get run over while walking the dog.
mcv 13y ago
> Wow, I didn't realise US police were that bad. You didn't? Stories about attrocious behaviour by US police, and the sorry state of the US prison system, not to mention the fact that the US locks up more people than any other country in the world, have received a lot of attention here and elsewhere. To me, the worst one was the prison that bribed a judge to convict more children.
- res0nat0r 13y ago
  So one story of the justice system going wrong in the USA means the whole system is systemically corrupt? By this thinking I hope neither of you drive a car to work every day. You'll really be afraid of the risks with that one.
  - kyllo 13y ago
    I'm not sure if I'm more reassured by the fact that he got caught, or disturbed by the fact that he got away with it for so long.
  - rhizome 13y ago
    It's not just one story.
  - lotsofmangos 13y ago
    No, the relentless compelling evidence that pours out in torrents day after day without respite is what makes it look like it is corrupt. This story is shocking, but it is not surprising in the slightest, and there is a reason for that.
  - vidarh 13y ago
    As of writing this, there's more than one story of the system going wrong in the US on the frontpage of HN alone (How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help - https://medium.com/p/9f53ef6a1c10/ https://medium.com/p/9f53ef6a1c10/ is the other one; I believe it was posted after your comment) If it was one story, it wouldn't be so scary. What is scary is the ongoing stream of horrible abuses of power that gets reported. Especially because so many of them include aftermaths where nobody gets held accountable.
jaegerpicker 13y ago
Don't be a complete Ass. The US is a a big place, really big and there are vastly different types of states and situations. Any country in the world has fucked up abuses of power, name where you live and I guarantee that an example exists. Comparing Maine (where I live, which has the lowest crime rate and rate of prisoners per 100,000 in the US) to Texas is like comparing Switzerland to Russia based on the size and population levels and distance between. Note that Texas has some great areas it's just to show that they are extremely different to other states and it's not a valid comparison to Russia.
- scarmig 13y ago
  Maine has an epidemic of prison rape, just as Texas does. Although there are many issues where it's fair to make a distinction between different localities, this is a national problem.
- mcv 13y ago
  Note that though Maine has the lowest incarceration rate of the US, globally they're only average. Most countries in Europe still have a lower incarceration rate, for example. And every other US state has a higher incarceration rate than Maine. Many 3 times as high, some 5, one even 10 times as high. The US as a whole has by far the highest incarceration rate of the whole world. Maybe Maine is the exception as the only sane state in this regard. As a whole, the situation in the US is attrocious.
  - jaegerpicker 13y ago
    Agreed the issue needs to be fixed but my point is that the whole of the US isn't the same and painting the entire us as a dangerous place to go is ridiculous and unfair.
    - mcv 13y ago
      But even the safest state is still roughly comparable with the least safe country in Europe. Yes, there's lots of variation, just as there is anywhere else, but on the whole, incarceration in the US is just plain crazy.
rayiner 13y ago
There are 300 million people in the U.S. They collectively have hundreds of millions if not mord of interactions with the law each year. Outlier events that happen one in a million times will happen hundreds of times a year in the U.S. and be broadcast at the speed of light around the internet.
- lotsofmangos 13y ago
  From these interactions they also end up in jail far more often than any other people on earth. Compared to the rest of the world, the US is the outlier event.
  - rayiner 13y ago
    In much of the world, criminals get away with their actions at a much higher rate, so its not necessarily a sensible comparison. Compare the U.S. to the U.K., two culturally similar countries. The U.S. has a bit under 5x the incarceration rate. But it also has a bit under 4x the intentional homicide rate. Manchester, ostensibly the most dangerous large city in the U.K., had 35 homicides in the whole metro of 2.7 million people. Wilmington, DE has 20-25 in a typical year, for a city of 70,000 people. So yeah, we put more people in jail. We also have more reason to.
    - lotsofmangos 13y ago
      Just a thought, isn't putting your criminals through your jail system at least partly to blame for your high level of homicide? I mean, I'm no expert but it would seem that if you brutalise people for infractions, then release them into a society that will not now employ them but has lots of guns, that perhaps it might make life a bit more dangerous for everyone?
einhverfr 13y ago
To be fair, this seems like a real outlier. I read court cases for fun (IANAL) and very rarely do you see cases like this come up. For the most part, most police officers I have known are respectable, decent, responsible individuals. There are bad apples, of course. But this case is horrible, but it isn't just the police. The District Attorney's office in this case was probably responsible for more of the mess than the police department. It is the DA's office that decides whether to charge the alleged offender, is responsible for working with the police to build a case, etc. This story is so full of warning signs of an out-of-control prosecutor that it is beyond outrage. Ever wonder why they couldn't get the full words from Facebook? Because Facebook wouldn't give it to them? More likely because a judge wouldn't approve their request based on the evidence they had. The decision to push ahead in that case is entirely the DA's call. The police in the US are generally speaking pretty good. I don't fault them. You just have to respect the fact that anywhere criminal investigation is about coming up with a good narrative, so it's better for everyone if you don't say too much. Our problem though is with prosecutors, who, unlike police, can't get sued over crap like this and who keep getting handed more power by things like mandatory sentencing guidelines....

zacinbusiness 13y ago

Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, North and South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia - fear these places.

ItendToDisagree 13y ago
Any state south of the Mason-Dixon line is portrayed as a cartoonish land of religious fanatics, racism, and overreaction. In truth it is not exactly so, but I personally wouldn't want to live in any of those places. I probably wouldn't be happy living in the mid-west either though. It generally holds true that these sorts of things can happen in any state now. If you 'threaten' to shoot up a school (no matter how jokingly) you're likely to get reamed for it. Context no longer matters... There is a zero tolerance policy on certain words and ideas now it appears.
- zacinbusiness 13y ago
  I've lived in the south my whole life. It's a hell hole of backwards racism, fear. I stay here for my family and my wife's job. But it's hard.
- nervousvarun 13y ago
  Lived in the south my entire life (currently in Nola). There's definitely an I don't know...afterglow effect? with this stereotype at play in the south today. It certainly used to be highly isolated culture with it's own weird problems ("fanatics, racism, and overreaction"). These days though thanks to television, the internet, decades of immigration etc. it's pretty much the rest of the US...with better weather.
  - jff 13y ago
    Don't tell people that, or the Californians will move in and ruin it.
    - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
      The weather isn't that nice.
spacehome 13y ago
I was hoping to live in some of these places in the future. Would you mind clarifying why the states on this list are especially bad rather than others?
- zacinbusiness 13y ago
  Most of it comes down to the fact that you have extremely geographically isolated people. Communities in the mountains of the Carolina's for instance may not even have a bank or a post office. These people are extremely paranoid and fearful of change, and thus they elect politicians that share their views and that, worse, feed into them with religious and political rhetoric about how the bad man with dark skin is going to take away all the things they care for most.
  - jessaustin 13y ago
    But the Western USA is much more geographically isolated. Slavery broke the entire nation, and while much of the rest of the nation has recovered, in important ways the South is still broken.
  - throwaway344 13y ago
    Not a criticism but how much time have you spent in the South?
    - zacinbusiness 13y ago
      My entire life. I've met some of the most viciously racist people that exist. And not just poor and uneducated people. Wealthy, educated people as well. There is an institutionalized racism that permeates most of the south. Not all southerners are that way. Some of us try to lift the south up into the 21st century. But it's a hard fight. And the resistance to change is strong.
      - throwaway344 13y ago
        Thanks.
marvin 13y ago
A Norwegian tourist was sentenced to seven years in prison in Arizona for accidentally running over some guy's foot with his car. The incident happened after he took a wrong turn onto a one-way street and was about to turn around, when he was crowded by a group of people at a nearby music festival, apparently angry with his traffic violation. One of them punched him in the face through the car window, upon which he sped off (accidentally running over a foot in the process). The charge was assault with a lethal weapon (the car), the case went to trial and he was convicted. It's a circus. [Edit: Turns out the guy was not a tourist. Here is the story, written right before the sentencing: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002601538 http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002601538]
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
jessaustin 13y ago
I wouldn't put New Mexico in that company, and much of Virginia isn't too bad, but yeah. I think it's important to remember a fact of humanity: you're generally safer on familiar ground, around people who are similar to yourself. It can be very interesting, exciting, and rewarding to be "the foreigner", but at the same time you should never forget when you're in that position. Of course one of the horrible things about Texas is it does this sort of thing to actual Texans, in addition to other people. It's really an indictment of the people of the state: could you form a decent jury, judiciary, legislature, or police force if it had to be made up of Texans?
- gyepi 13y ago
  I think it's important to remember a fact of humanity: you're generally safer on familiar ground, around people who are similar to yourself. It can be very interesting, exciting, and rewarding to be "the foreigner", but at the same time you should never forget when you're in that position. This is generally true. However, the United States is a multi ethnic country. So the question is, does this statement apply to all ethnicities, everywhere? The fact is, for a large number of Americans, they are "the foreigner" exactly in that position most of the time.
- dctoedt 13y ago
  > It's really an indictment of the people of the state: could you form a decent jury, judiciary, legislature, or police force if it had to be made up of Texans? It wouldn't be hard to find prejudiced ignoramuses who would say the same about the people of any state (or religion, or ethnic group, or occupation).
  - jessaustin 13y ago
    Harder than you might think, pard'ner. Only you can change you.
Larrikin 13y ago
I take offense to Virginia being in that list
- esw 13y ago
  I never thought of Virginia as being a part of the cultural conservative south until the ultrasound bill.
Larrikin 13y ago
I take offense to Virginia being in that list
bitexploder 13y ago
I have lived in Georgia all of my life. It is fine. Cases like these are outliers and can happen anywhere. Look at what happened in Illinois when someone recorded a cop with a helmet cam. These types of generalizations have no place on HN.
- zacinbusiness 13y ago
  http://m.gastongazette.com/news/local/kkk-trying-to-recruit-new-members-in-area-1.139784 http://m.gastongazette.com/news/local/kkk-trying-to-recruit-...
  - bitexploder 13y ago
    I have traveled a lot. I have met small minded bigots all over. I grew up on a moderate sized city in the deep south. There is still a very small population of bigots in almost any rural area. No need to down play it, this is a very small amount of the population. It is still a problem, to some extent: (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2428103/Majority-Americas-racists-live-areas-slavery-common-says-new-study.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2428103/Majority-Ame...). A few more generations and people won't even have living memories of Jim Crow. It takes time to heal wounds like this and that is very certainly the trend (improvement).
batbomb 13y ago
Oh fuck off, you obviously haven't been to half of these states, especially considering you dumped New Mexico into a list with Mississippi. How that would ever make sense is beyond me. What would you even be fearing? Burritos and Barbeque?
- zacinbusiness 13y ago
  I wouldn't fear anything. But I'm white. If I were not white? I'd fear the corrupt cops, the corrupt legal system, and the corrupt banking system to name a few.
  - arbuge 13y ago
    Banking system? How is the banking system in those states different than the one in the others?
    - zacinbusiness 13y ago
      Because the man at the desk that's in charge of giving personal and small business loans is more likely to be a daddy-tells-me-how-to-think redneck.
      - umanwizard 13y ago
        Have you ever been to the Southwest? (California counts for half credit at most.)
- code_duck 13y ago
  I'm from New Mexico, and it's a grand place. However he might be thinking of the backwards and corrupt policing of the state. For instance, http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-new-mexico-police-search-20140116,0,186240.story http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-new-mexico-... http://www.elpasotimes.com/latestnews/ci_25024804/new-lawsuit-alleges-illegal-body-cavity-search-new http://www.elpasotimes.com/latestnews/ci_25024804/new-lawsui...
MrZongle2 13y ago
Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, North and South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia - fear these places. Well, if you're going to paint with such a broad brush, go ahead and list the other 38. I hear there are bad people in San Francisco, Madison, Boise, Olympia, Reading and Topeka too. Then you should start listing Canadian provinces, because surely they've got some bad apples. And don't forget Mexico, since they've had issues with murderous drug cartels. At that point you should also mention the bloodthirsty populations of Central America as well as the black-hearted people of Iceland. Really, I think only the Moon is reasonably safe but the place has gone downhill since 1969.
- sixothree 13y ago
  I grew up in Louisiana. The police here are just plain awful. But as young adults we were always warned about dealing with and avoiding dealing with police in Mississippi. Police in the deep south are not the same as police in other places.
bglazer 13y ago
that's just incredibly asinine. Vanderbilt Duke UNC Rice Georgia Tech Virginia Tech University of Virginia That's a partial list. PLACES TO BE FEARED! It's legitimately damaging to the American South to perpetuate stereotypes like this. It makes smart people want to leave, or never go in the first place. I've lived in Memphis Tennessee for my entire life and I can guarantee you that it would be a better place if people didn't spew closed minded horse-shit like this.
- einhverfr 13y ago
  I think there are places to be feared everywhere. The wrong neighborhoods in Seattle may not be so safe. Ditto with Houston, LA, Detroit, NOLA, etc. The secret is simple: ask locals. That's the best way to be safe wherever you travel.
zacinbusiness 13y ago
And add Kansas to the list: http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/02/13/kansas_anti_gay_segregation_bill_is_an_abomination.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/02/13/kansas_anti_ga...

rplnt 13y ago

This is not an isolated case either. I don't mean facebook-comment-wise, but rather wtf-wise. From Internet, through airports and car stops to interacting with random strangers. Lot's of horrific stories where you end up in the justice system, while done absolutely nothing that breaks the law or would endanger someone in any way. But maybe because the US is so big it's bound to happen sometimes? I don't know, but USA is certainly not on my want-to-visit list (though it's on a wish-to-visit along with Pakistan).

Nux 13y ago
USA is a lovely country, too bad it's inhabited. ;-)
- ItendToDisagree 13y ago
  That didn't stop the original European settlers now did it? ;D
  - Nux 13y ago
    Yep, they sure liked it. The above is an expression we use a lot in my own country (Romania): "Our country is great, too bad it's inhabited". It can easily be extended to any country, imho. :)
    - jaimebuelta 13y ago
      I've heard the expression (in Spanish), but referring to the particular people living there (and other countries). "America is great, too bad it's full of Americans" (change to any country that you want to mock)
      - Kurtz79 13y ago
        Always liked this (my traslation from the Italian translation of the original): "What is Heaven like? It has everything at its best: delicious food, classy wines, mild climate, superb views from all sides. A bit like France, but without the French." (Jeremy Pascall)

adventured 13y ago

Incarceration rate by US State: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_incarceration_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_incarcer...

hackerboos 13y ago

The US police are bad but it's the prosecutors that are at major fault here. This case should be dismissed.

toyg 13y ago

In fairness, as an EU citizen, I'd say most justice systems the world over are just shit. Sure, the rich and connected will get all sorts of rights and protections, but if you are Mr. Nobody (and worse, you were not born and bred in the specific area where you're being accused) then some sort of abuse is almost guaranteed. Look at the news in places like UK, Germany, Spain, France, Italy, Canada: people "spontaneously" die in police custody, are killed in the street while unarmed, spend years in jail for crimes they didn't commit, spend months in custody before even being accused of anything... and these are just the ones we hear about. My father occasionally had to look after kids who had some brush up with the Law, in Italy; long story short, once you enter The System, you can kiss goodbye to any sense of respect, self-worth or personal rights.

tbastos 13y ago
Sure, there are problems everywhere, but you cannot compare the level of bullshit in the states. Just look at the statistics on Wikipedia, and the many documentaries on YouTube and newspaper articles on it. Yeah if you're poor and vulnerable you're screwed anywhere in the capitalist world. But in the states you're screwed even if you are middle class (absurd bails) and have a good lawyer, because the government is so over its head that they will jail you with fabricated evidence and then give you no chance of justice. True, the UK is not much better than the US. But otherwise many countries in Europe are incomparably safer. If not because of more reasonable justice systems, just because people are more laid back and sane here than in the states.
- toyg 13y ago
  >just because people are more laid back and sane here than in the states. Are they? I distinctly remember the post-riot reactions in London last summer: people got sentenced to years of imprisonment for posting banter on Facebook and Twitter, with full support from mainstream public opinion. Because we're all cool until you touch private property, and then it's HANG THE THIEF! And if you think that's just Brits being Brits, I can show you the electoral results of people like LePen, Wilders, Haider, and the laws this pressure produced... Do not make the error of confusing historical development with the essence of man: we might look more laid back and "civilised" because of accidents of history that bestowed us a set of marginally saner laws and a bit more perspective (and recent memory), but underneath we're as brutal as anyone else on the planet.

tbastos 13y ago

Exactly! I think I can only visit the states again after I'm married and with kids, to go to Disneyland... it seems the only safe venture. I mean if you're single, go to a club and get into a fight, that would probably be enough to make your life hell already... going there is like russian roulette

jff 13y ago
Why would you assault someone in a club? I thought you're from a ~civilized country~
ColinCochrane 13y ago
You can't get into fights at Disneyland either. The best bet is to not assault people.
- tbastos 13y ago
  And why did you assume I would be the one to pick a fight? Even though I'm a peaceful person who never ever assaulted anyone, I've been assaulted several times for no reason, and in different countries. Friends of the aggressor can testify against you and then you're in trouble. I picked club fights as an example, but the point is that bad luck can put innocent people in trouble with the law in any setting...

rmc 13y ago

I've been to an Africa country. A friend was almost robbed by a member of an ethnic minority. The police brought the suspect in, beat the crap out of him until he confessed. My friends were down the hall while they heard the police beat him up and heard his cries. In the 1990s during the Rwandan Genocide, neighbours turned on neighbours and a million people were hacked to death with machetes. Get real.

xtrumanx 13y ago
I hope you're not implying situations found in the Rwandan Genocide are typical in Africa.
- beachstartup 13y ago
  they aren't typical but they aren't uncommon. you could say the same thing about europe, though. especially in the 20th century, but there's time yet for the 21st to catch up!
  - gyepi 13y ago
    I am afraid you don't know what you're talking about. Genocide is not common in Africa. It's happened, but it's not common.
    - minimize_me 13y ago
      But didn't you see that movie about the guy with the hotel?
      - gyepi 13y ago
        I think you are referring to Hotel Rwanda. No, I didn't. I am hopeful that this is a joke and not an attempt to disprove my point or a demonstration of your range of knowledge on the subject.
      - taejo 13y ago
        That was the Rwandan genocide. It's the same incident.

powertower 13y ago

You should also stay inside your house at all times. Because if you go outside lightning could strike you. Or maybe you'll get run over while walking the dog.

mcv 13y ago

> Wow, I didn't realise US police were that bad. You didn't? Stories about attrocious behaviour by US police, and the sorry state of the US prison system, not to mention the fact that the US locks up more people than any other country in the world, have received a lot of attention here and elsewhere. To me, the worst one was the prison that bribed a judge to convict more children.

res0nat0r 13y ago
So one story of the justice system going wrong in the USA means the whole system is systemically corrupt? By this thinking I hope neither of you drive a car to work every day. You'll really be afraid of the risks with that one.
- kyllo 13y ago
  I'm not sure if I'm more reassured by the fact that he got caught, or disturbed by the fact that he got away with it for so long.
- rhizome 13y ago
  It's not just one story.
- lotsofmangos 13y ago
  No, the relentless compelling evidence that pours out in torrents day after day without respite is what makes it look like it is corrupt. This story is shocking, but it is not surprising in the slightest, and there is a reason for that.
- vidarh 13y ago
  As of writing this, there's more than one story of the system going wrong in the US on the frontpage of HN alone (How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help - https://medium.com/p/9f53ef6a1c10/ https://medium.com/p/9f53ef6a1c10/ is the other one; I believe it was posted after your comment) If it was one story, it wouldn't be so scary. What is scary is the ongoing stream of horrible abuses of power that gets reported. Especially because so many of them include aftermaths where nobody gets held accountable.

jaegerpicker 13y ago

Don't be a complete Ass. The US is a a big place, really big and there are vastly different types of states and situations. Any country in the world has fucked up abuses of power, name where you live and I guarantee that an example exists. Comparing Maine (where I live, which has the lowest crime rate and rate of prisoners per 100,000 in the US) to Texas is like comparing Switzerland to Russia based on the size and population levels and distance between. Note that Texas has some great areas it's just to show that they are extremely different to other states and it's not a valid comparison to Russia.

scarmig 13y ago
Maine has an epidemic of prison rape, just as Texas does. Although there are many issues where it's fair to make a distinction between different localities, this is a national problem.
mcv 13y ago
Note that though Maine has the lowest incarceration rate of the US, globally they're only average. Most countries in Europe still have a lower incarceration rate, for example. And every other US state has a higher incarceration rate than Maine. Many 3 times as high, some 5, one even 10 times as high. The US as a whole has by far the highest incarceration rate of the whole world. Maybe Maine is the exception as the only sane state in this regard. As a whole, the situation in the US is attrocious.
- jaegerpicker 13y ago
  Agreed the issue needs to be fixed but my point is that the whole of the US isn't the same and painting the entire us as a dangerous place to go is ridiculous and unfair.
  - mcv 13y ago
    But even the safest state is still roughly comparable with the least safe country in Europe. Yes, there's lots of variation, just as there is anywhere else, but on the whole, incarceration in the US is just plain crazy.

rayiner 13y ago

There are 300 million people in the U.S. They collectively have hundreds of millions if not mord of interactions with the law each year. Outlier events that happen one in a million times will happen hundreds of times a year in the U.S. and be broadcast at the speed of light around the internet.

lotsofmangos 13y ago
From these interactions they also end up in jail far more often than any other people on earth. Compared to the rest of the world, the US is the outlier event.
- rayiner 13y ago
  In much of the world, criminals get away with their actions at a much higher rate, so its not necessarily a sensible comparison. Compare the U.S. to the U.K., two culturally similar countries. The U.S. has a bit under 5x the incarceration rate. But it also has a bit under 4x the intentional homicide rate. Manchester, ostensibly the most dangerous large city in the U.K., had 35 homicides in the whole metro of 2.7 million people. Wilmington, DE has 20-25 in a typical year, for a city of 70,000 people. So yeah, we put more people in jail. We also have more reason to.
  - lotsofmangos 13y ago
    Just a thought, isn't putting your criminals through your jail system at least partly to blame for your high level of homicide? I mean, I'm no expert but it would seem that if you brutalise people for infractions, then release them into a society that will not now employ them but has lots of guns, that perhaps it might make life a bit more dangerous for everyone?

einhverfr 13y ago

To be fair, this seems like a real outlier. I read court cases for fun (IANAL) and very rarely do you see cases like this come up. For the most part, most police officers I have known are respectable, decent, responsible individuals. There are bad apples, of course. But this case is horrible, but it isn't just the police. The District Attorney's office in this case was probably responsible for more of the mess than the police department. It is the DA's office that decides whether to charge the alleged offender, is responsible for working with the police to build a case, etc. This story is so full of warning signs of an out-of-control prosecutor that it is beyond outrage. Ever wonder why they couldn't get the full words from Facebook? Because Facebook wouldn't give it to them? More likely because a judge wouldn't approve their request based on the evidence they had. The decision to push ahead in that case is entirely the DA's call. The police in the US are generally speaking pretty good. I don't fault them. You just have to respect the fact that anywhere criminal investigation is about coming up with a good narrative, so it's better for everyone if you don't say too much. Our problem though is with prosecutors, who, unlike police, can't get sued over crap like this and who keep getting handed more power by things like mandatory sentencing guidelines....