4 ms·

"All people are the same: race does not matter." In the U.S. whites score about one standard deviation above blacks on IQ tests such as WISC and Stanford-Binet

"All people are the same: race does not matter." In the U.S. whites score about one standard deviation above blacks on IQ tests such as WISC and Stanford-Binet, and in adoption studies that try to control for environment, this difference does not go away. Race is more than skin deep.

sjtrny 13y ago
Citation needed
- Rimpinths 13y ago
  I'm reluctant to get involved in the politically incorrect side of this argument, but FWIW, that stat comes from "Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns", which was a paper published in the mid-90s by the American Psychological Association (in response to the controversial book "The Bell Curve"). From the paper: "The differential between the mean intelligence test scores of Blacks and Whites (about one standard deviation, although it may be diminishing) does not result from any obvious biases in test construction and administration, nor does it simply reflect differences in socio-economic status. Explanations based on factors of caste and culture may be appropriate, but so far have little direct empirical support. There is certainly no such support for a genetic interpretation. At present, no one knows what causes this differential."
- tw268 13y ago
  There's a lot of delicious scientifically-backed crimethink at Jayman's: http://jaymans.wordpress.com/hbd-fundamentals/ http://jaymans.wordpress.com/hbd-fundamentals/
scott_karana 13y ago
I've seen studies demonstrating the reverse: controlled for poverty, school, and whether a student has one or two parents, white and black American schoolchildren tested the same. (Standard deviation of 0.06: http://www.nber.org/papers/w12066 http://www.nber.org/papers/w12066) EDIT: Sorry, wrong paper. Looking for the right one. Even the fact that you point out "in the US" should be an indicator of the racism. I've never heard any other modern countries seriously complain about the allegedly inferior intellects of their black populace. Are American blacks different?...
- tw268 13y ago
  Racial differences in IQ are surprisingly robust between and within countries: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IQ_by_Country.png http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IQ_by_Country.png These differences are mirrored by PISA and IQ scores between nations, SAT scores within nations, and etc. It's not hard to find corroborating evidence, but most people don't want to. http://jaymans.wordpress.com/hbd-fundamentals/#Race-IQ http://jaymans.wordpress.com/hbd-fundamentals/#Race-IQ It's hard to imagine that racism accounts for the entire explanation of such a global, consistent, and persistent phenomenon.
  - magicalist 13y ago
    Ugh. That map is terrible. I'll just quote wikipedia on this one: For 104 of the 185 nations, no studies were available. In those cases, the authors have used an estimated value by taking averages of the IQs of neighboring or comparable nations. For example, the authors arrived at a figure of 84 for El Salvador by averaging their calculations of 79 for Guatemala and 88 for Colombia. Including those estimated IQs, the correlation of IQ and GDP is 0.62. It's not hard to find corroborating evidence, you can just make it up! [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations#National_IQ_estimates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations#Na...
    - ZeroGravitas 13y ago
      More importantly it didn't even support the argument presented. I guess what they intended was "African Americans have low IQ and so do Africans, ergo IQ is race-related". Yet African Americans have higher IQ than Africans, because they live in a more prosperous region, with less disease, more opportunities etc. so what does that tell us about IQ and race, and racial differences within countries? That maybe it's not all about race (and generally be on the lookout for stats that don't correct for factors like age/wealth/education/sex etc. I regularly see the "headline" figure being given uncorrected.)
      - tw268 13y ago

sjtrny 13y ago

Citation needed

Rimpinths 13y ago
I'm reluctant to get involved in the politically incorrect side of this argument, but FWIW, that stat comes from "Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns", which was a paper published in the mid-90s by the American Psychological Association (in response to the controversial book "The Bell Curve"). From the paper: "The differential between the mean intelligence test scores of Blacks and Whites (about one standard deviation, although it may be diminishing) does not result from any obvious biases in test construction and administration, nor does it simply reflect differences in socio-economic status. Explanations based on factors of caste and culture may be appropriate, but so far have little direct empirical support. There is certainly no such support for a genetic interpretation. At present, no one knows what causes this differential."
tw268 13y ago
There's a lot of delicious scientifically-backed crimethink at Jayman's: http://jaymans.wordpress.com/hbd-fundamentals/ http://jaymans.wordpress.com/hbd-fundamentals/

scott_karana 13y ago

I've seen studies demonstrating the reverse: controlled for poverty, school, and whether a student has one or two parents, white and black American schoolchildren tested the same. (Standard deviation of 0.06: http://www.nber.org/papers/w12066 http://www.nber.org/papers/w12066) EDIT: Sorry, wrong paper. Looking for the right one. Even the fact that you point out "in the US" should be an indicator of the racism. I've never heard any other modern countries seriously complain about the allegedly inferior intellects of their black populace. Are American blacks different?...

tw268 13y ago
Racial differences in IQ are surprisingly robust between and within countries: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IQ_by_Country.png http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IQ_by_Country.png These differences are mirrored by PISA and IQ scores between nations, SAT scores within nations, and etc. It's not hard to find corroborating evidence, but most people don't want to. http://jaymans.wordpress.com/hbd-fundamentals/#Race-IQ http://jaymans.wordpress.com/hbd-fundamentals/#Race-IQ It's hard to imagine that racism accounts for the entire explanation of such a global, consistent, and persistent phenomenon.
- magicalist 13y ago
  Ugh. That map is terrible. I'll just quote wikipedia on this one: For 104 of the 185 nations, no studies were available. In those cases, the authors have used an estimated value by taking averages of the IQs of neighboring or comparable nations. For example, the authors arrived at a figure of 84 for El Salvador by averaging their calculations of 79 for Guatemala and 88 for Colombia. Including those estimated IQs, the correlation of IQ and GDP is 0.62. It's not hard to find corroborating evidence, you can just make it up! [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations#National_IQ_estimates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations#Na...
  - ZeroGravitas 13y ago
    More importantly it didn't even support the argument presented. I guess what they intended was "African Americans have low IQ and so do Africans, ergo IQ is race-related". Yet African Americans have higher IQ than Africans, because they live in a more prosperous region, with less disease, more opportunities etc. so what does that tell us about IQ and race, and racial differences within countries? That maybe it's not all about race (and generally be on the lookout for stats that don't correct for factors like age/wealth/education/sex etc. I regularly see the "headline" figure being given uncorrected.)
    - tw268 13y ago