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Why Indie Developers Go Insane

264 points by jaimebuelta 13y ago

Arjuna 13y ago
Jeff is spot on in his blog post. To make an analogy, Dong Nguyen essentially tapped into the modern-day equivalent of Pac-Man Fever. In the 80s, it swept the world, to the tune of billions of dollars. It was the highest-grossing arcade game ever produced. People simply loved the game, and they couldn't get enough of clearing boards of dots, power-pellets and ghosts. Most people probably knew nothing about who made the game, with the small exception of the corporate names on the game (e.g., Namco/Midway). Certainly, I suspect only the hardcore few would be able to name the programmer of Pac-Man, Shigeo Funaki. And I suspect that no one blinked their eyes in disdain when they saw the news reports of Pac-Man's financial success. In a similar way, Flappy Bird took very simple game-play, and combined it with a simple challenge. This is, of course, not the first game to do this, but it took off so successfully that I suspect that a very high percentage of gamers have it installed, and even some non-gamers could likely brand-identify the game, or have at least heard of it. The power of the Internet has made Nguyen's name known, and quite sadly in some circles, despised for his financial success. No one bemoaned Pac-Man's programmer, or Namco/Midway's success, but fast-forward from the 80s to today, and you get gems like this article [1] and its intellectual lamenting with, "[...] I begrudge a society that would turn it into a phenomenon." I suspect that the author would have said the same about Pac-Man. Casual games like Flappy Bird do not prevent someone from playing, say, EVE Online, to their heart's content. And, what if you just happen to like both types of games? I guess you are a real outcast at that point; a non-intellectual. To put it another way, just because you intellectually eschew casual games and choose instead to rock, say, Steel Battalion with a full-on controller [2] doesn't mean that you are necessarily leading the upliftment of society. Fortunately, there is a game in the world for every gamer. [1] http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/02/03/flappy-bird-review-winged-fury http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/02/03/flappy-bir... [2] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Steel_Battalion_controllers.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Steel_Ba...
patio11 13y ago
Read this, despite the title. It describes truths about public creation generally, and should be of particular interest to HNers who dream of going into indie game development.
- jaimebuelta 13y ago
  I've tried to improve the title giving a better idea. I loved this sentence in particular: "These factors mean that, when these devs break, you see it, and it's spectacular"
- davedx 13y ago
  I had a brief foray into indie game development. Luckily, my game "Discretion" was quickly swallowed into Android Market obscurity and only sold a couple 100. Out of this I got 1 (one) real fan, who emailed me a couple of times being really positive and nagged me for the one update I did for the game. Sometimes, I count myself lucky :) It would have been nice to keep doing that for a living, though.
  - mathattack 13y ago
    And I think that's the point of the article. To make money, you have to put up with a lot of other BS. (Same as working in a bank or large company, just that the BS is more public in gaming)
  - suby 13y ago
    If you ever do decide to do it again, or if anyone reading decides to make a game, please pick a name that can be easily googled. Mentioning the game anywhere is a form of marketing, but it's useless if it's not something that the reader can immediately and indiscriminately find by typing into google "name game". Googling discretion game turned up 31 million results, with none of the first page links seeming to be your game. Just a small pet peeve I have, I guess.
- nForce 13y ago
  I don't think this article is anywhere near accurate of the current situation. The author doesn't know the creator of Happy Birds personally, and makes a lot of presumptions whilst perhaps projecting a lot of his own issues onto him. I'm more inclined to think the creator took the game down to save himself being sued to oblivion and keep whatever money he currently has.
Fuxy 13y ago
That's a shame the developer was doing quite good with "Flappy Birds" he should probably re-consider taking it off the genie is already out of the bottle and taking it off now would not change anything. Fuck it dude it doesn't matter just ignore anything relating to it it will go away eventually. Give it time the internet has a short attention span. They'll see something more shiny soon enough.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
baldfat 13y ago
I claim that there is MUCH MORE to this Flappy Bird story then his feelings were hurt so bad he left $50,000 a day. The on going rumor is he bought reviews and that he was found out. The hammer from Apple and Google was going to come down, but now he can save face and come out with a game a few months later with clean reviews. Glad the programer was able to make $1,500,000 so far it seems. Maybe he just retired and is going to enjoy life, I hope this is the real answer.
- jemeshsu 13y ago
  Any idea which ads network is used in Flappy Bird? iAds?
  - vijaykiran 13y ago
    On iOS, it is iAds.
- dgabriel 13y ago
  Rumors are what they are, in the absence of very strong evidence, I'd take it at face value. Almost everyone I know has/had Flappy Bird.
- arb99 13y ago
  I think this is the real reason. And as well he announced it was going to be deleted in 24hrs... giving people final chance to buy it... if he really did want to stop it he would have pulled it straight away (I am assume the app stores let you do this - I don't know). He's milking it for what he can be being cautious. I don't blame him.
- majani 13y ago
  The man was foolish to reveal his stellar earnings to the international press while living in a third world, communist, authoritarian country where many businessmen travel with fleets of bodyguards. As someone who also lives in a similar country, I can say with near certainty that THAT was probably the cause of the deletion.
- corresation 13y ago
philbarr 13y ago
This might be niave of me, but couldn't he just accept his $50,000 a day and simply not read the hate he was getting? It's not like he has to go on the computer every day - he could just do something else for a couple of weeks (at the most) until it all dies down and be $mucho better off. I spent longer than the three days he's supposed to have spent on my latest game[1] and I would love a response like he's got. [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.simplyapped.calculate https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.simplyappe...
- lewispollard 13y ago
  From what I've heard the Vietnamese media went crazy trying to contact him, organise meetings, put his family into the media spotlight. Vietnam's still a communist state, don't forget - making this kind of money puts unwanted attention on him from state and from organised criminals in the area. I bet his family didn't want that kind of attention.
  - sergiotapia 13y ago
    I'm betting this is the reason why he pulled the plug. I live in Bolivia and would hate this attention. People kidnap your family, criminals target you, etc.
- ses 13y ago
  Would you not be curious what people were saying about you and your app? And would it not be advantageous as an app developer to know the feedback you are getting and be able to improve your app? I think these are the sort of reasons combined with the fact that people are very resourceful and persistent in obtaining your contact details make it very difficult to just ignore what people are saying. But its a good point and with some effort you could probably mask your identity to some degree, the trouble is once one comment has really got to you, it doesn't really matter.
- coldpie 13y ago
  I don't know if it happened in this case, but it's not uncommon for the Internet Hate Machine to go after their targets offline, including phone calls, mail, and SWATting[1], or involving friends and family of the target. [1] http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/03/security-reporter-tells-ars-about-hacked-911-call-that-sent-swat-team-to-his-house/ http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/03/security-reporter-te...
antirez 13y ago
Whatever is the reality about Flappy Bird, it is inconceivable for me that at the same time an IT world that is incredibly capitalist, interested in big earnings, VC moneys, and where success is measured in rounds and exits, at the same time, can't accept that: 1) A simple game can earn 50k and is deserved, if people like the game. 2) That there is no need to search at any cost some hidden reason to remove the game. 3) That one does not need to get insane and/or break to go away from money.
- darkmighty 13y ago
  I don't think he "went insane". He received threats. He lives in a poor country (and probably violent) and likely doesn't want to raise flags as the guy earning 50k a day. This is just first world people forgetting there are violent and politically delicate countries elsewhere, I guess.
  - 1337biz 13y ago
    The earnings for 1-2 weeks were enough to get in most western countries on an investor visa.
    - TeMPOraL 13y ago
      Leaving your country is not a simple decision based on money. It means leaving your old life, friends and sometimes family behind. It's understandable he might not even consider this.
      - Aldo_MX 13y ago
        You are not leaving your country forever, you can always take vacations to visit your family, friends, etc.
    - faceponder 13y ago
      Not everyone in non-Western countries wants to leave...
ses 13y ago
This article definitely rings true. As someone who has published a few apps in the past, not even games, 90% of feedback received was negative and completely nonconstructive. It takes a while to realise it is nothing to do with the quality of your work or in most cases at all related. Regardless due to the low volume of downloads I received I responded to every single email or comment requesting more constructive feedback and mostly never got a response. In some cases I actually managed to help users with the ways they were using the apps which gave me a good sense of satisfaction, but mostly it was a complete waste of time. In one instance I really regretted replying as it just encourages further abuse. Looking back all I can say is I can sympathise with anyone who has this problem and would also like to note weirdly I've never had the same experience with web apps. I can only assume the demographic of usage and ease of commenting on and contacting developers of mobile apps/games affects the feedback and comments you get.
CompleteMoron2 13y ago
i'd like to sum up this whole experience in two words. "we're jealous"
prawks 13y ago
For anyone who this article interested, I highly recommend watching Indie Game: The Movie. To say the least, it was eye-opening for me, as someone who hasn't put much creative work in the public space in any very visible way. It's incredibly humanizing to see these people who built indie games that I enjoy greatly go through the amount of stress that they do, all over pieces of software that most people rarely blink an eye at. It's also completely understanding when people like Phil Fish or Don Nguyen quit the industry. It takes a certain mindset, and I don't think people who start making games for the fun of expressing themselves fully realize it at first.
- jaimebuelta 13y ago
  I very much agree... It is a great movie, and shows (though in a "movie way", which, of course, should not be treated as 100% "the real thing") how is more than just money. It can be very personal.
- BlackDeath3 13y ago
  I love that movie, and will stick up for Phil Fish any time. It's really easy for nobodies to sit in obscurity and shit on the guy for doing some of the things he did, but I love him for it. I love that somebody in his position had the guts to tell jackasses to fuck off.
jrgnsd 13y ago
I find it ironic that a guy with the surname vogel (the German and Dutch word for bird) writes about Flappy BIRD.
- acheron 13y ago
  It's like rain on your wedding day.
krmmalik 13y ago
I'm not a developer and I've never put something together like this, however, having spent some time in the far east in my teen years and early twenties I know what it can be like when you become 'famous' or rich overnight. You can get a lot of unwanted attention, that may even put your family in actual threat of harm and danger. That is not a nice feeling and makes it very hard to sleep at night and even think during the day. I really feel for this guy. I don't know what it's like in Vietnam, but given it's part of the far east, I wouldn't be surprised if he's had death threats and similar. Fame and riches don't necessarily lead to a happier life in these places, you need power along with it too. That said, it's entirely possible that it has nothing to do with the any threat of actual harm and danger from external forces but just the barrage of envy, criticism and perhaps unwarranted attention. That's a problem that can be fixed. If there are any indie developers out there that ever find them in such a bind or position, I'm making this plain and simple offer to you all. Please feel free to reach out to me. I'll help you work through it. I've helped plenty others in similar situations, and ultimately it's all about just 'getting out of your own shell' for want of a better phrase - and I can help you do that. Hope that helps if anyone is reading this. Contact details in my profile.
- badman_ting 13y ago
  Seemed to me like he was reacting to the threats he got online, not really anything to do where he lives. Strange that HNers seem to keep focusing on that.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
mcv 13y ago
This makes me want to start a blog to share and mock all the irrational hatred I'll receive if I ever make a successful app. I'm not sure if that'd actually be a good idea, but there are so many trolls out there getting a hardon from sending despicable threats from a position of anonimity and non-accountability, that I think exposing those creeps somehow would be a public service.
- javajosh 13y ago
  That would be a good side-project if you were to start a "hate filter" company who's sole purpose is to filter the hate for a client, and present it to them, perhaps, as a dry statistic. You could then take the content and expose it. Now the haters become the brunt of the joke - it would be great to associate their real names with their hate, as well.
  - thenomad 13y ago
    I have in the past (as someone who publishes artistic projects on the Web) employed other people to collate and filter the feedback we've had. It's a lot easier to face an 80-comment thread where 20 comments are contentless abuse if you can just read a single line that says "Negative, no specific focus: 25%".
klrr 13y ago
After reading /r/gamedev on Flappy Bird I got quite disgusted by their community. I hope doesn't represent the whole game development community. They seriously compared Flappy Bird to more in-depth games and took its success as some kind of threat without even realizing that short and addictive entertainment does sell. You can't compare Flappy Birds to "bigger" games, it just doesn't make sense. Flappy Birds is an amazing game in its own right.
- _pmf_ 13y ago
  > After reading /r/gamedev on Flappy Bird I got quite disgusted by their community The /r/ should have been a strong suggestion that disgust is imminent.
  - 3rd3 13y ago
    That is a common overgeneralization. I think you are closer to reality with: "reddit isn’t weird, people are weird."
  - amagumori 13y ago
    oh, because hacker news is so much different from reddit
- BlackDeath3 13y ago
  I missed the /r/gamedev discussion on this game, but I've always been impressed with that subreddit. This is depressing :(
- aschearer 13y ago
  It's embarrassing but in my experience many game developers are quick to denigrate Flappy Birds. I don't think it's restricted to /r/gamedev. We can speculate as to why game developers feel the need to rip games apart, but ultimately I think it's amazing that Dong created such a hit and a shame that he's felt overwhelmed by the community's response.
kyro 13y ago
When you understand that the majority of people out there are followers, cannot be bothered to risk making anything on their own, are in constant search of leaders to tell them what to say and believe, and take the lowest-effort path to approval and attention (eg sensationalist simple-minded criticism), and that there are others out there who are aware of this and exploit it (eg bloggers), and that all this is the norm and has been, you'll be better prepared to deal with, or better, ignore the haters. People are lazy and selfish and will do whatever it takes to satisfy both behaviors.
DanBC 13y ago
Dong an don nguyen are commen names So I bet the knife maker loves the extra hits.
robodale 13y ago
Yes because indie developers lead such horribly unique lives. Another pompous piece of shit Jeff Vogel calls his blog. Get off your ivory tower. People go nuts every day and every place.
- kevinh 13y ago
  Perhaps you should try reading the post before you criticize it. Vogel directly addresses that.
loup-vaillant 13y ago
> Nobody gets out of this world alive. No kidding…
snake_plissken 13y ago
If they go insane or experience serious anxiety, it's because some of the players are nit-wit jerks who feel the need to disparage, insult and threaten the developers on forums and social media outlets, and sometimes in real life. Seriously (in the case of the Nguyen [1]), threatening a game developer of a (arguably) very mundane and free game because the dev decided it's not worth his time nor is the game's popularity aligned with his moral imperatives? This type of shit GRINDS my gears. [1] - http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/02/at-height-of-popularity-creator-pulls-flappy-bird-from-app-stores/ http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/02/at-height-of-popularit...
yawz 13y ago
I don't get the "everyone is a critic these days" argument. We are entitled to our own opinions. As long as the opinions are expressed in a non-insulting manner, we have the right to utter them. We don't need a PhD, we don't need somebody's permission, we don't need to be rich, tall, fat, etc. Remain polite but don't refrain from saying what you think!
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
vanderZwan 13y ago
> One angry message has more effect than ten friendly ones. This is something more people need to be aware of in general: these kind of messages are processed by two entirely different mental systems that do not cancel each other out, with the negative emotions having a much larger relative weight because they evolved out of the "avoiding things that kill you" mechanisms, which is kind of a big deal in evolutionary terms.

264 points by jaimebuelta 13y ago

Jeff is spot on in his blog post. To make an analogy, Dong Nguyen essentially tapped into the modern-day equivalent of Pac-Man Fever. In the 80s, it swept the world, to the tune of billions of dollars. It was the highest-grossing arcade game ever produced. People simply loved the game, and they couldn't get enough of clearing boards of dots, power-pellets and ghosts. Most people probably knew nothing about who made the game, with the small exception of the corporate names on the game (e.g., Namco/Midway). Certainly, I suspect only the hardcore few would be able to name the programmer of Pac-Man, Shigeo Funaki. And I suspect that no one blinked their eyes in disdain when they saw the news reports of Pac-Man's financial success. In a similar way, Flappy Bird took very simple game-play, and combined it with a simple challenge. This is, of course, not the first game to do this, but it took off so successfully that I suspect that a very high percentage of gamers have it installed, and even some non-gamers could likely brand-identify the game, or have at least heard of it. The power of the Internet has made Nguyen's name known, and quite sadly in some circles, despised for his financial success. No one bemoaned Pac-Man's programmer, or Namco/Midway's success, but fast-forward from the 80s to today, and you get gems like this article [1] and its intellectual lamenting with, "[...] I begrudge a society that would turn it into a phenomenon." I suspect that the author would have said the same about Pac-Man. Casual games like Flappy Bird do not prevent someone from playing, say, EVE Online, to their heart's content. And, what if you just happen to like both types of games? I guess you are a real outcast at that point; a non-intellectual. To put it another way, just because you intellectually eschew casual games and choose instead to rock, say, Steel Battalion with a full-on controller [2] doesn't mean that you are necessarily leading the upliftment of society. Fortunately, there is a game in the world for every gamer. [1] http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/02/03/flappy-bird-review-winged-fury http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/02/03/flappy-bir... [2] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Steel_Battalion_controllers.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Steel_Ba...

patio11 13y ago

Read this, despite the title. It describes truths about public creation generally, and should be of particular interest to HNers who dream of going into indie game development.

jaimebuelta 13y ago
I've tried to improve the title giving a better idea. I loved this sentence in particular: "These factors mean that, when these devs break, you see it, and it's spectacular"
davedx 13y ago
I had a brief foray into indie game development. Luckily, my game "Discretion" was quickly swallowed into Android Market obscurity and only sold a couple 100. Out of this I got 1 (one) real fan, who emailed me a couple of times being really positive and nagged me for the one update I did for the game. Sometimes, I count myself lucky :) It would have been nice to keep doing that for a living, though.
- mathattack 13y ago
  And I think that's the point of the article. To make money, you have to put up with a lot of other BS. (Same as working in a bank or large company, just that the BS is more public in gaming)
- suby 13y ago
  If you ever do decide to do it again, or if anyone reading decides to make a game, please pick a name that can be easily googled. Mentioning the game anywhere is a form of marketing, but it's useless if it's not something that the reader can immediately and indiscriminately find by typing into google "name game". Googling discretion game turned up 31 million results, with none of the first page links seeming to be your game. Just a small pet peeve I have, I guess.
nForce 13y ago
I don't think this article is anywhere near accurate of the current situation. The author doesn't know the creator of Happy Birds personally, and makes a lot of presumptions whilst perhaps projecting a lot of his own issues onto him. I'm more inclined to think the creator took the game down to save himself being sued to oblivion and keep whatever money he currently has.

Fuxy 13y ago

That's a shame the developer was doing quite good with "Flappy Birds" he should probably re-consider taking it off the genie is already out of the bottle and taking it off now would not change anything. Fuck it dude it doesn't matter just ignore anything relating to it it will go away eventually. Give it time the internet has a short attention span. They'll see something more shiny soon enough.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

baldfat 13y ago

I claim that there is MUCH MORE to this Flappy Bird story then his feelings were hurt so bad he left $50,000 a day. The on going rumor is he bought reviews and that he was found out. The hammer from Apple and Google was going to come down, but now he can save face and come out with a game a few months later with clean reviews. Glad the programer was able to make $1,500,000 so far it seems. Maybe he just retired and is going to enjoy life, I hope this is the real answer.

jemeshsu 13y ago
Any idea which ads network is used in Flappy Bird? iAds?
- vijaykiran 13y ago
  On iOS, it is iAds.
dgabriel 13y ago
Rumors are what they are, in the absence of very strong evidence, I'd take it at face value. Almost everyone I know has/had Flappy Bird.
arb99 13y ago
I think this is the real reason. And as well he announced it was going to be deleted in 24hrs... giving people final chance to buy it... if he really did want to stop it he would have pulled it straight away (I am assume the app stores let you do this - I don't know). He's milking it for what he can be being cautious. I don't blame him.
majani 13y ago
The man was foolish to reveal his stellar earnings to the international press while living in a third world, communist, authoritarian country where many businessmen travel with fleets of bodyguards. As someone who also lives in a similar country, I can say with near certainty that THAT was probably the cause of the deletion.
corresation 13y ago

philbarr 13y ago

This might be niave of me, but couldn't he just accept his $50,000 a day and simply not read the hate he was getting? It's not like he has to go on the computer every day - he could just do something else for a couple of weeks (at the most) until it all dies down and be $mucho better off. I spent longer than the three days he's supposed to have spent on my latest game[1] and I would love a response like he's got. [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.simplyapped.calculate https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.simplyappe...

lewispollard 13y ago
From what I've heard the Vietnamese media went crazy trying to contact him, organise meetings, put his family into the media spotlight. Vietnam's still a communist state, don't forget - making this kind of money puts unwanted attention on him from state and from organised criminals in the area. I bet his family didn't want that kind of attention.
- sergiotapia 13y ago
  I'm betting this is the reason why he pulled the plug. I live in Bolivia and would hate this attention. People kidnap your family, criminals target you, etc.
ses 13y ago
Would you not be curious what people were saying about you and your app? And would it not be advantageous as an app developer to know the feedback you are getting and be able to improve your app? I think these are the sort of reasons combined with the fact that people are very resourceful and persistent in obtaining your contact details make it very difficult to just ignore what people are saying. But its a good point and with some effort you could probably mask your identity to some degree, the trouble is once one comment has really got to you, it doesn't really matter.
coldpie 13y ago
I don't know if it happened in this case, but it's not uncommon for the Internet Hate Machine to go after their targets offline, including phone calls, mail, and SWATting[1], or involving friends and family of the target. [1] http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/03/security-reporter-tells-ars-about-hacked-911-call-that-sent-swat-team-to-his-house/ http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/03/security-reporter-te...

antirez 13y ago

Whatever is the reality about Flappy Bird, it is inconceivable for me that at the same time an IT world that is incredibly capitalist, interested in big earnings, VC moneys, and where success is measured in rounds and exits, at the same time, can't accept that: 1) A simple game can earn 50k and is deserved, if people like the game. 2) That there is no need to search at any cost some hidden reason to remove the game. 3) That one does not need to get insane and/or break to go away from money.

darkmighty 13y ago
I don't think he "went insane". He received threats. He lives in a poor country (and probably violent) and likely doesn't want to raise flags as the guy earning 50k a day. This is just first world people forgetting there are violent and politically delicate countries elsewhere, I guess.
- 1337biz 13y ago
  The earnings for 1-2 weeks were enough to get in most western countries on an investor visa.
  - TeMPOraL 13y ago
    Leaving your country is not a simple decision based on money. It means leaving your old life, friends and sometimes family behind. It's understandable he might not even consider this.
    - Aldo_MX 13y ago
      You are not leaving your country forever, you can always take vacations to visit your family, friends, etc.
  - faceponder 13y ago
    Not everyone in non-Western countries wants to leave...

ses 13y ago

This article definitely rings true. As someone who has published a few apps in the past, not even games, 90% of feedback received was negative and completely nonconstructive. It takes a while to realise it is nothing to do with the quality of your work or in most cases at all related. Regardless due to the low volume of downloads I received I responded to every single email or comment requesting more constructive feedback and mostly never got a response. In some cases I actually managed to help users with the ways they were using the apps which gave me a good sense of satisfaction, but mostly it was a complete waste of time. In one instance I really regretted replying as it just encourages further abuse. Looking back all I can say is I can sympathise with anyone who has this problem and would also like to note weirdly I've never had the same experience with web apps. I can only assume the demographic of usage and ease of commenting on and contacting developers of mobile apps/games affects the feedback and comments you get.

CompleteMoron2 13y ago

i'd like to sum up this whole experience in two words. "we're jealous"

prawks 13y ago

For anyone who this article interested, I highly recommend watching Indie Game: The Movie. To say the least, it was eye-opening for me, as someone who hasn't put much creative work in the public space in any very visible way. It's incredibly humanizing to see these people who built indie games that I enjoy greatly go through the amount of stress that they do, all over pieces of software that most people rarely blink an eye at. It's also completely understanding when people like Phil Fish or Don Nguyen quit the industry. It takes a certain mindset, and I don't think people who start making games for the fun of expressing themselves fully realize it at first.

jaimebuelta 13y ago
I very much agree... It is a great movie, and shows (though in a "movie way", which, of course, should not be treated as 100% "the real thing") how is more than just money. It can be very personal.
BlackDeath3 13y ago
I love that movie, and will stick up for Phil Fish any time. It's really easy for nobodies to sit in obscurity and shit on the guy for doing some of the things he did, but I love him for it. I love that somebody in his position had the guts to tell jackasses to fuck off.

jrgnsd 13y ago

I find it ironic that a guy with the surname vogel (the German and Dutch word for bird) writes about Flappy BIRD.

acheron 13y ago
It's like rain on your wedding day.

krmmalik 13y ago

I'm not a developer and I've never put something together like this, however, having spent some time in the far east in my teen years and early twenties I know what it can be like when you become 'famous' or rich overnight. You can get a lot of unwanted attention, that may even put your family in actual threat of harm and danger. That is not a nice feeling and makes it very hard to sleep at night and even think during the day. I really feel for this guy. I don't know what it's like in Vietnam, but given it's part of the far east, I wouldn't be surprised if he's had death threats and similar. Fame and riches don't necessarily lead to a happier life in these places, you need power along with it too. That said, it's entirely possible that it has nothing to do with the any threat of actual harm and danger from external forces but just the barrage of envy, criticism and perhaps unwarranted attention. That's a problem that can be fixed. If there are any indie developers out there that ever find them in such a bind or position, I'm making this plain and simple offer to you all. Please feel free to reach out to me. I'll help you work through it. I've helped plenty others in similar situations, and ultimately it's all about just 'getting out of your own shell' for want of a better phrase - and I can help you do that. Hope that helps if anyone is reading this. Contact details in my profile.

badman_ting 13y ago
Seemed to me like he was reacting to the threats he got online, not really anything to do where he lives. Strange that HNers seem to keep focusing on that.
- deleted 13y ago
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mcv 13y ago

This makes me want to start a blog to share and mock all the irrational hatred I'll receive if I ever make a successful app. I'm not sure if that'd actually be a good idea, but there are so many trolls out there getting a hardon from sending despicable threats from a position of anonimity and non-accountability, that I think exposing those creeps somehow would be a public service.

javajosh 13y ago
That would be a good side-project if you were to start a "hate filter" company who's sole purpose is to filter the hate for a client, and present it to them, perhaps, as a dry statistic. You could then take the content and expose it. Now the haters become the brunt of the joke - it would be great to associate their real names with their hate, as well.
- thenomad 13y ago
  I have in the past (as someone who publishes artistic projects on the Web) employed other people to collate and filter the feedback we've had. It's a lot easier to face an 80-comment thread where 20 comments are contentless abuse if you can just read a single line that says "Negative, no specific focus: 25%".

klrr 13y ago

After reading /r/gamedev on Flappy Bird I got quite disgusted by their community. I hope doesn't represent the whole game development community. They seriously compared Flappy Bird to more in-depth games and took its success as some kind of threat without even realizing that short and addictive entertainment does sell. You can't compare Flappy Birds to "bigger" games, it just doesn't make sense. Flappy Birds is an amazing game in its own right.

_pmf_ 13y ago
> After reading /r/gamedev on Flappy Bird I got quite disgusted by their community The /r/ should have been a strong suggestion that disgust is imminent.
- 3rd3 13y ago
  That is a common overgeneralization. I think you are closer to reality with: "reddit isn’t weird, people are weird."
- amagumori 13y ago
  oh, because hacker news is so much different from reddit
BlackDeath3 13y ago
I missed the /r/gamedev discussion on this game, but I've always been impressed with that subreddit. This is depressing :(
aschearer 13y ago
It's embarrassing but in my experience many game developers are quick to denigrate Flappy Birds. I don't think it's restricted to /r/gamedev. We can speculate as to why game developers feel the need to rip games apart, but ultimately I think it's amazing that Dong created such a hit and a shame that he's felt overwhelmed by the community's response.

kyro 13y ago

When you understand that the majority of people out there are followers, cannot be bothered to risk making anything on their own, are in constant search of leaders to tell them what to say and believe, and take the lowest-effort path to approval and attention (eg sensationalist simple-minded criticism), and that there are others out there who are aware of this and exploit it (eg bloggers), and that all this is the norm and has been, you'll be better prepared to deal with, or better, ignore the haters. People are lazy and selfish and will do whatever it takes to satisfy both behaviors.

DanBC 13y ago

Dong an don nguyen are commen names So I bet the knife maker loves the extra hits.

robodale 13y ago

Yes because indie developers lead such horribly unique lives. Another pompous piece of shit Jeff Vogel calls his blog. Get off your ivory tower. People go nuts every day and every place.

kevinh 13y ago
Perhaps you should try reading the post before you criticize it. Vogel directly addresses that.

loup-vaillant 13y ago

> Nobody gets out of this world alive. No kidding…

snake_plissken 13y ago

If they go insane or experience serious anxiety, it's because some of the players are nit-wit jerks who feel the need to disparage, insult and threaten the developers on forums and social media outlets, and sometimes in real life. Seriously (in the case of the Nguyen [1]), threatening a game developer of a (arguably) very mundane and free game because the dev decided it's not worth his time nor is the game's popularity aligned with his moral imperatives? This type of shit GRINDS my gears. [1] - http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/02/at-height-of-popularity-creator-pulls-flappy-bird-from-app-stores/ http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/02/at-height-of-popularit...

yawz 13y ago

I don't get the "everyone is a critic these days" argument. We are entitled to our own opinions. As long as the opinions are expressed in a non-insulting manner, we have the right to utter them. We don't need a PhD, we don't need somebody's permission, we don't need to be rich, tall, fat, etc. Remain polite but don't refrain from saying what you think!

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vanderZwan 13y ago

> One angry message has more effect than ten friendly ones. This is something more people need to be aware of in general: these kind of messages are processed by two entirely different mental systems that do not cancel each other out, with the negative emotions having a much larger relative weight because they evolved out of the "avoiding things that kill you" mechanisms, which is kind of a big deal in evolutionary terms.