9 ms·

What happened when the CEO of a Boston burrito chain became an Uber driver

212 points by rajbala 13y ago

Avitas 13y ago
I wonder what happens when his Tesla gets t-boned by a pickup truck, they guy speeds off and he has to claim it on his insurance. His insurance finds out he's driving for Uber and then...
- cloudwalking 13y ago
  He also says he's pulling $21/hour but I don't see any maintenance or depreciation factored in...
  - marvin 13y ago
    Well hey...if you can bait civilian drivers with no real contract into taking these costs for you, more power to you, right? After all, you're creating shareholder value. If the drivers ever pick up on it, just raise the payout. They'll have made money in the meantime.
    - kosei 13y ago
      To be fair here, unless you're driving a luxury car like a Tesla, your depreciation, gas and maintenance costs are still probably $5/hour or less. So, call it $16/hour, and it's still well above minimum wage and most living wages. You're adding extra danger due to potential crash concerns etc, but I don't really know how to best quantify that. http://commutesolutions.org/external/calc.html http://commutesolutions.org/external/calc.html
      - maxerickson 13y ago
        One way is to figure out how much taxis and limos are paying for insurance. The insurance companies already spend a lot of effort trying to quantify those risks.
      - cloudwalking 13y ago
        Your assumptions may be incorrect. Here is an article that was on HN a couple months ago: http://brent-noorda.blogspot.com/2013/11/how-much-does-lyft-driver-earn.html?m=1 http://brent-noorda.blogspot.com/2013/11/how-much-does-lyft-... According to Consumer Reports (see linked article), the median car costs about $9k per year for the first 5 years (including the sticker price). That comes out to $0.75 per mile--not an insignificant amount. Driving 30 miles per hour, that's $22.50 in costs.
        marvin 13y ago
        You could always drive a cheaper car. Whoops...some customers don't like your car. 4.3 star rating. Out you go ;) This sounds like a poor deal to me.
        tomhschmidt 13y ago
        That's not a very good comparison. Many of these costs you'll incur, regardless of whether or not you drive for Uber (insurance, tabs, tax, depreciation, etc.) To actually calculate the costs of driving for Uber, we should only be looking at the variable, or the per-mile cost, which as far as I can tell should be: - Gas - Maintenance - Loss in resale value
        dredmorbius 13y ago
        Those costs are accurate, but a major part of the expense is depreciation. The longer you own the car (and the less you drive it), the lower those expenses are. Parking (including the land or rent you pay to your garage) is another big hidden expense. Automobile reliability has, generally, advanced worlds from where it was in the 1970s. It used to be that getting 100,000 miles was a significant accomplishment, now it's pretty much expected, and having a car run 200,000 miles isn't uncommon. I'd had a vehicle I ended up selling to a friend which went 280k before it was finally cash-for-clunkered. In that time, it went through a couple of radiators, a couple of exhaust manifold repairs, and a transmission (protip: keep 'em lubed and watch for oil leaks). And a few sets of brake pads, possibly a clutch. But all told, pretty remarkable. In the 2000s you saw some significant improvements in safety (ubiquitous airbags, ABS, and traction control), but not a whole lot else. That said: doing a lot of city driving in traffic is fairly high-risk and high-wear on a car.
- Karunamon 13y ago
  I'd imagine the same thing that happens to people who work for the average delivery food place (i.e. most don't mark it a work vehicle for insurance purposes either) and get into an accident. I'd hardly call Uber immoral for this. It's up to each person to square up with their insurance company.
  - HarryHirsch 13y ago
    What's happening here is that Uber and your favorite pizza taxi are littering. They know that a fair share of their drivers do not carry a commercial liability policy. When an Uber driver has an accident, the next thing that will happen is that their insurance denies the claim, and you have to claim against your uninsured motorist policy. Good luck to anyone who doesn't have such a policy because they don't own a car! Hey, uninsured motorist rates just went up! I wish they didn't do that, and instead Uber fares and pizza prices went up because I don't use them. They have no business imposing externalities on me.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - Karunamon 13y ago
      >Hey, uninsured motorist rates just went up! I wish they didn't do that, and instead Uber fares and pizza prices went up because I don't use them. They have no business imposing externalities on me. Indeed. If someone drives in such a way as to be uninsured, shame on them. Still not the company's fault for the individual's lack of responsibility.
      - Nrsolis 13y ago
        >Still not the company's fault for the individual's lack of responsibility. No. If they know, or more importantly from a legal liability standpoint SHOULD have known, then it's on them. We haven't seen the test case that will decide the legal liability/insurability of P2P driver services, but it's clear that Uber and others are operating in a somewhat legal grey area and are not bothered by it. Indeed, you could argue that they are forcing the issue of regulation and insurability with their business model. But I'd stop short of saying that they have NO responsibility. It's clear that Uber is hoping to delay any reckoning on that question until after their dominance is a fait accompli.
- MichaelGG 13y ago
  Uber says they require proof of livery insurance. So in theory the driver should already be paying that $$$ a month and be covered.
  - walkersm 13y ago
    Thats for Uber Black and SUV not UberX. They only check for proof of personal auto insurance on UberX. And they know that does not cover the driver in most instances. They knowingly send people out to do work on their system knowing they are committing insurance fraud. Worst part is regulators seem to be letting them get away with it in many states, Not all.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
incision 13y ago
Interesting. He drives his Jeep, falls to a 4.3 rating and is about to get released from the service. He starts driving his Tesla, finds that passengers start treating him as an equal and give him a perfect 5.0 every time. Somehow that's not at all surprising and disappointing at the same time.
- rdl 13y ago
  I'd personally be annoyed if my UberX driver came in a Wrangler; one of the most uncomfortable-as-passenger cars on the market. A Camry or something is totally fine; doesn't have to be a Tesla, but should be something relatively quiet and comfortable.
  - CamperBob2 13y ago
    To be fair, Wranglers have come a long way in the last few years.
    - sk5t 13y ago
      A Wrangler Unlimited might not be too terrible as a passenger... regular backseat, hard sides and top, etc. Not quite a "real" Wrangler though.
  - bluedino 13y ago
    With the winter we've had in much of the US, a Wrangler would be a great taxi
  - tdicola 13y ago
    As a Jeep driver I agree, they're definitely not appropriate for shuttling around most people. If you can find the niche of uber customers who want to go offroad though, maybe you could make a fortune.
  - marincounty 13y ago
    Really? Americans have gotten soft. I once had a date who questioned what I was driving; I took out her roommate instead. I guess we all have our own "Comfy" zone though?
vm 13y ago
"it feels really productive to take my kids to school and get paid to drive home" Drivers using Uber to fill free time or excess capacity is a radical shift away from how Uber started, with professional drivers using it to make a living. A friend of mine does this with Lyft. Imagine how many cars are on the road right now with only one driver and the rest of the seats empty. Lots of potential new drivers...
- rdl 13y ago
  UberX is actually about 20% cheaper than Lyft, although I think TaskRabbit rides still are often the cheapest (although by far the least convenient).
  - drewvolpe 13y ago
    What's that based on ? I use both Uber and Lyft frequently and, for me, Lyft has been always cheaper for the same trips.
    - rdl 13y ago
      UberX intentionally set their rates (recently) below Uber, at least in SF. Uber has 5 different tiers of car.
      - rdl 13y ago
        (er, I meant UberX set their rates below Lyft, in case that wasn't obvious.)
- lars512 13y ago
  AirBnB for the road?
  - specialist 13y ago
    I wanted to buy a ZipCar/FlexCar fleet vehicle. Then any one (in network) could use it, helping me offset my capital expenses.
marvin 13y ago
I'm curious about the no-remorse, humans-are-replacable ethos which is evident through the author's description of the recruitment process. I see this time and time again in stories about software startups, and it really gives me a queasy feeling. It does not make life at a startup company seem very inviting.
- sanderjd 13y ago
  That was my main take-away from the article. Especially because the presentation seemed to be, "this is the future of employment". I fear for that future.
- SomeCallMeTim 13y ago
  I don't see that at all. It's not that humans are replaceable as much as the fact that each driver's performance (and corresponding rating) is crucial to their continued employment. I have no problem with that at all given the fact that Uber's image and product both rely on having good customer experiences. If Uber were more concerned with providing a living to its employees, then they likely wouldn't last very long as a profitable business. $21/hour is a fair wage (a living wage in most locations, in fact), and that's all they really need to provide to be good corporate citizens. Not to mention the "people are interchangeable" concept actually dates back to at least the Industrial Revolution, and is not only not limited to startups, but is probably less prevalent in startups than in manufacturing or corporate jobs in general. So I'm not sure what you're complaining about.
  - alphaoverlord 13y ago
    Contrast this with stack ranking and other metrics for developers and PMs. Can you now see the OPs reservations about such a system? Particularly as the article critiques the system as flawed.
  - marvin 13y ago
    What's even more unsettling than the fact that many companies have this attitude towards their employees, is the degree to which members of HN unquestioningly defend this practice whenever the subject comes up. As long as only Uber does this, there really isn't a problem. But it will be a problem if it happens everywhere. I am not saying that this is a black-and-white thing. There are certainly nuances here, and in a purely economic sense, humans are often interchangable. The problem starts when this attitude uncompromisingly becomes part of how companies (read: people) do business. A purely utilitarian, "amoral", selfish attitude to the world has bad ramifications if widely adopted. Keep in mind that giving the boot to everyone below a 4.3 average rating means that if only one out of three customers conclude that your service was perfect, you will have your contract cancelled with no warning. It's easy enough to say "just have perfect performance, or otherwise just get another job" when you have a 5-year STEM education, grew up in a happy family and don't suffer from any serious condition or illness. But not everyone has it this easy. If this is the future of employment, there need to be simpler options for people who can't perform significantly better than "average" most of the time. You might be safe in your software development job since you can't easily be replaced, so you boss won't fire you if, say, you go through a really messy breakup and perform at 50% capacity for six months. Everyone in an uncompromising performance-measured job will be canned under such circumstances. And having a tough time is something that all people experience once in a while. As long as everyone could have their basic needs met when unemployed: Sure, make whatever labor structure is the most efficient. Otherwise, there needs to be a certain degree of compromise.
tomkinson 13y ago
This is the kind of guy you want to be your CEO. Someone who doesn't spend their time shopping for the best suit or glad handing unnecessarily. For those in the hunt for a CEO, take note here. Curiosity, exploration, not afraid to get dirty, a desire to understand and learn. Well done.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
  - eigenvector 13y ago
    He took up Uber driving in the free time created by his resignation as CEO so I don't really understand your comment.
- vitd 13y ago
  He's also the kind of CEO who thinks it's great that there's absolutely no real recourse for drivers or customers when something goes wrong. If you work for him, be prepared for it to be a one-way street.
  - seabird37 13y ago
    Actually, this is the kind of CEO I was... if truly interested http://bit.ly/tyjohnpepper http://bit.ly/tyjohnpepper
fleshweasel 13y ago
It sounds like Uber's business model is essentially in sidestepping the consumer protections that exist for conventional private driver and taxi companies. It reminds me of how credit card companies and PayPal sidestep consumer protections created for banks.
- dnautics 13y ago
  what consumer protections? I drive for lyft, and a large portion of the clientele is the GLBT community, who have stopped taking taxis because finally there is an alternative to being harassed and mistreated by the driver on account of their sexuality.
  - fleshweasel 13y ago
    It's terrible that some taxi drivers are homophobic but it really does not change where uber is accountable. http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/27/uber-and-a-childs-death/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=1 http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/27/uber-and-a-childs-d... They have an obligation to society to not send out uninsured drivers who are distracted with their phones. This is a very profitable company and they are very capable of doing at least the former. I'm not sure how the latter problem could be solved except perhaps to demand that drivers pull over to receive requests through the app or whatever. http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/04/leaked-uber-numbers-which-weve-confirmed-point-to-over-1b-gross-revenue-213m-revenue/ http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/04/leaked-uber-numbers-which-w... The CEO unironically had Ayn Rand as his Twitter picture. I don't need more evidence than that to know somebody's a douchebag.
jellicle 13y ago
So let's do the math. $21/hour for 7 hours, $150/day, gross. I found some estimates online that a taxi driver might drive about 150 miles per day. Let's say 125 since this was sort of a short day. The IRS mileage allowance is 56 cents per mile - this is supposed to be an "all-in" number that includes all of the costs of owning and operating a vehicle. So that's $70/day for vehicle costs which the operator will have to pay - fuel, repairs, tires, whatever. So we'll knock that $150 down to $80. So he's earning around $12/hour, before taxes, doing one of the more dangerous professions (cab driver is more dangerous than police officer, for example), and he's doing it completely uninsured - if he cracks up that Tesla during an Uber trip his insurer is not going to pay out on it. If the Tesla is stolen during an Uber trip his insurer is not going to pay out on it. If he has one accident, ever, he'll lose more than he could ever earn from a lifetime of working for Uber. > 1. Never, ever try to call Uber with problems… because they don’t even have phones and there is very little if any reason to talk to them. And Uber won't even pick up the phone to talk to drivers.
- jessaustin 13y ago
  Your general point is a good one, but it's a mistake to simply take the IRS numbers for the maximum that it should cost to operate a passenger vehicle as a good estimate for what it does cost any particular driver. OTOH, it's possible that IRS is lowballing it in order to screw over people who drive for a living.
- joe_the_user 13y ago
  cab driver is more dangerous than police officer, for example While cab driving is one of the more dangerous occupations, I'd avoid that comparison. Police officer barely rates as occupation of above-average danger in most ratings of fields.
- patrickg_zill 13y ago
  It doesn't cost $70 per day to go 125 miles in a city. Otherwise my car with 59000 miles would have already costed me $33K in all expenses. It hasn't. Further, this is what the IRS allows you to DEDUCT. So his taxable income is reduced by the 56 cents per mile - to the extent that his costs are less than 56 cents per mile, he is making more due to the tax-advantaged nature. Also, at the end of the first year he can elect to either use per-mile deduction, or, the MACRS method, which may or may not give him an advantage (but he has to choose and use one or the other for subsequent tax years).
jsmeaton 13y ago
>What happened when Boloco founder John Pepper became an Uber driver This kind of article title is really starting to piss me off. Especially for this particular article where nothing "happened". It's just a QA with a new driver.

212 points by rajbala 13y ago

I wonder what happens when his Tesla gets t-boned by a pickup truck, they guy speeds off and he has to claim it on his insurance. His insurance finds out he's driving for Uber and then...

cloudwalking 13y ago
He also says he's pulling $21/hour but I don't see any maintenance or depreciation factored in...
- marvin 13y ago
  Well hey...if you can bait civilian drivers with no real contract into taking these costs for you, more power to you, right? After all, you're creating shareholder value. If the drivers ever pick up on it, just raise the payout. They'll have made money in the meantime.
  - kosei 13y ago
    To be fair here, unless you're driving a luxury car like a Tesla, your depreciation, gas and maintenance costs are still probably $5/hour or less. So, call it $16/hour, and it's still well above minimum wage and most living wages. You're adding extra danger due to potential crash concerns etc, but I don't really know how to best quantify that. http://commutesolutions.org/external/calc.html http://commutesolutions.org/external/calc.html
    - maxerickson 13y ago
      One way is to figure out how much taxis and limos are paying for insurance. The insurance companies already spend a lot of effort trying to quantify those risks.
    - cloudwalking 13y ago
      Your assumptions may be incorrect. Here is an article that was on HN a couple months ago: http://brent-noorda.blogspot.com/2013/11/how-much-does-lyft-driver-earn.html?m=1 http://brent-noorda.blogspot.com/2013/11/how-much-does-lyft-... According to Consumer Reports (see linked article), the median car costs about $9k per year for the first 5 years (including the sticker price). That comes out to $0.75 per mile--not an insignificant amount. Driving 30 miles per hour, that's $22.50 in costs.
      - marvin 13y ago
        You could always drive a cheaper car. Whoops...some customers don't like your car. 4.3 star rating. Out you go ;) This sounds like a poor deal to me.
      - tomhschmidt 13y ago
        That's not a very good comparison. Many of these costs you'll incur, regardless of whether or not you drive for Uber (insurance, tabs, tax, depreciation, etc.) To actually calculate the costs of driving for Uber, we should only be looking at the variable, or the per-mile cost, which as far as I can tell should be: - Gas - Maintenance - Loss in resale value
      - dredmorbius 13y ago
        Those costs are accurate, but a major part of the expense is depreciation. The longer you own the car (and the less you drive it), the lower those expenses are. Parking (including the land or rent you pay to your garage) is another big hidden expense. Automobile reliability has, generally, advanced worlds from where it was in the 1970s. It used to be that getting 100,000 miles was a significant accomplishment, now it's pretty much expected, and having a car run 200,000 miles isn't uncommon. I'd had a vehicle I ended up selling to a friend which went 280k before it was finally cash-for-clunkered. In that time, it went through a couple of radiators, a couple of exhaust manifold repairs, and a transmission (protip: keep 'em lubed and watch for oil leaks). And a few sets of brake pads, possibly a clutch. But all told, pretty remarkable. In the 2000s you saw some significant improvements in safety (ubiquitous airbags, ABS, and traction control), but not a whole lot else. That said: doing a lot of city driving in traffic is fairly high-risk and high-wear on a car.
Karunamon 13y ago
I'd imagine the same thing that happens to people who work for the average delivery food place (i.e. most don't mark it a work vehicle for insurance purposes either) and get into an accident. I'd hardly call Uber immoral for this. It's up to each person to square up with their insurance company.
- HarryHirsch 13y ago
  What's happening here is that Uber and your favorite pizza taxi are littering. They know that a fair share of their drivers do not carry a commercial liability policy. When an Uber driver has an accident, the next thing that will happen is that their insurance denies the claim, and you have to claim against your uninsured motorist policy. Good luck to anyone who doesn't have such a policy because they don't own a car! Hey, uninsured motorist rates just went up! I wish they didn't do that, and instead Uber fares and pizza prices went up because I don't use them. They have no business imposing externalities on me.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - Karunamon 13y ago
    >Hey, uninsured motorist rates just went up! I wish they didn't do that, and instead Uber fares and pizza prices went up because I don't use them. They have no business imposing externalities on me. Indeed. If someone drives in such a way as to be uninsured, shame on them. Still not the company's fault for the individual's lack of responsibility.
    - Nrsolis 13y ago
      >Still not the company's fault for the individual's lack of responsibility. No. If they know, or more importantly from a legal liability standpoint SHOULD have known, then it's on them. We haven't seen the test case that will decide the legal liability/insurability of P2P driver services, but it's clear that Uber and others are operating in a somewhat legal grey area and are not bothered by it. Indeed, you could argue that they are forcing the issue of regulation and insurability with their business model. But I'd stop short of saying that they have NO responsibility. It's clear that Uber is hoping to delay any reckoning on that question until after their dominance is a fait accompli.
MichaelGG 13y ago
Uber says they require proof of livery insurance. So in theory the driver should already be paying that $$$ a month and be covered.
- walkersm 13y ago
  Thats for Uber Black and SUV not UberX. They only check for proof of personal auto insurance on UberX. And they know that does not cover the driver in most instances. They knowingly send people out to do work on their system knowing they are committing insurance fraud. Worst part is regulators seem to be letting them get away with it in many states, Not all.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

incision 13y ago

Interesting. He drives his Jeep, falls to a 4.3 rating and is about to get released from the service. He starts driving his Tesla, finds that passengers start treating him as an equal and give him a perfect 5.0 every time. Somehow that's not at all surprising and disappointing at the same time.

rdl 13y ago
I'd personally be annoyed if my UberX driver came in a Wrangler; one of the most uncomfortable-as-passenger cars on the market. A Camry or something is totally fine; doesn't have to be a Tesla, but should be something relatively quiet and comfortable.
- CamperBob2 13y ago
  To be fair, Wranglers have come a long way in the last few years.
  - sk5t 13y ago
    A Wrangler Unlimited might not be too terrible as a passenger... regular backseat, hard sides and top, etc. Not quite a "real" Wrangler though.
- bluedino 13y ago
  With the winter we've had in much of the US, a Wrangler would be a great taxi
- tdicola 13y ago
  As a Jeep driver I agree, they're definitely not appropriate for shuttling around most people. If you can find the niche of uber customers who want to go offroad though, maybe you could make a fortune.
- marincounty 13y ago
  Really? Americans have gotten soft. I once had a date who questioned what I was driving; I took out her roommate instead. I guess we all have our own "Comfy" zone though?

vm 13y ago

"it feels really productive to take my kids to school and get paid to drive home" Drivers using Uber to fill free time or excess capacity is a radical shift away from how Uber started, with professional drivers using it to make a living. A friend of mine does this with Lyft. Imagine how many cars are on the road right now with only one driver and the rest of the seats empty. Lots of potential new drivers...

rdl 13y ago
UberX is actually about 20% cheaper than Lyft, although I think TaskRabbit rides still are often the cheapest (although by far the least convenient).
- drewvolpe 13y ago
  What's that based on ? I use both Uber and Lyft frequently and, for me, Lyft has been always cheaper for the same trips.
  - rdl 13y ago
    UberX intentionally set their rates (recently) below Uber, at least in SF. Uber has 5 different tiers of car.
    - rdl 13y ago
      (er, I meant UberX set their rates below Lyft, in case that wasn't obvious.)
lars512 13y ago
AirBnB for the road?
- specialist 13y ago
  I wanted to buy a ZipCar/FlexCar fleet vehicle. Then any one (in network) could use it, helping me offset my capital expenses.

marvin 13y ago

I'm curious about the no-remorse, humans-are-replacable ethos which is evident through the author's description of the recruitment process. I see this time and time again in stories about software startups, and it really gives me a queasy feeling. It does not make life at a startup company seem very inviting.

sanderjd 13y ago
That was my main take-away from the article. Especially because the presentation seemed to be, "this is the future of employment". I fear for that future.
SomeCallMeTim 13y ago
I don't see that at all. It's not that humans are replaceable as much as the fact that each driver's performance (and corresponding rating) is crucial to their continued employment. I have no problem with that at all given the fact that Uber's image and product both rely on having good customer experiences. If Uber were more concerned with providing a living to its employees, then they likely wouldn't last very long as a profitable business. $21/hour is a fair wage (a living wage in most locations, in fact), and that's all they really need to provide to be good corporate citizens. Not to mention the "people are interchangeable" concept actually dates back to at least the Industrial Revolution, and is not only not limited to startups, but is probably less prevalent in startups than in manufacturing or corporate jobs in general. So I'm not sure what you're complaining about.
- alphaoverlord 13y ago
  Contrast this with stack ranking and other metrics for developers and PMs. Can you now see the OPs reservations about such a system? Particularly as the article critiques the system as flawed.
- marvin 13y ago
  What's even more unsettling than the fact that many companies have this attitude towards their employees, is the degree to which members of HN unquestioningly defend this practice whenever the subject comes up. As long as only Uber does this, there really isn't a problem. But it will be a problem if it happens everywhere. I am not saying that this is a black-and-white thing. There are certainly nuances here, and in a purely economic sense, humans are often interchangable. The problem starts when this attitude uncompromisingly becomes part of how companies (read: people) do business. A purely utilitarian, "amoral", selfish attitude to the world has bad ramifications if widely adopted. Keep in mind that giving the boot to everyone below a 4.3 average rating means that if only one out of three customers conclude that your service was perfect, you will have your contract cancelled with no warning. It's easy enough to say "just have perfect performance, or otherwise just get another job" when you have a 5-year STEM education, grew up in a happy family and don't suffer from any serious condition or illness. But not everyone has it this easy. If this is the future of employment, there need to be simpler options for people who can't perform significantly better than "average" most of the time. You might be safe in your software development job since you can't easily be replaced, so you boss won't fire you if, say, you go through a really messy breakup and perform at 50% capacity for six months. Everyone in an uncompromising performance-measured job will be canned under such circumstances. And having a tough time is something that all people experience once in a while. As long as everyone could have their basic needs met when unemployed: Sure, make whatever labor structure is the most efficient. Otherwise, there needs to be a certain degree of compromise.

tomkinson 13y ago

This is the kind of guy you want to be your CEO. Someone who doesn't spend their time shopping for the best suit or glad handing unnecessarily. For those in the hunt for a CEO, take note here. Curiosity, exploration, not afraid to get dirty, a desire to understand and learn. Well done.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- eigenvector 13y ago
  He took up Uber driving in the free time created by his resignation as CEO so I don't really understand your comment.
vitd 13y ago
He's also the kind of CEO who thinks it's great that there's absolutely no real recourse for drivers or customers when something goes wrong. If you work for him, be prepared for it to be a one-way street.
- seabird37 13y ago
  Actually, this is the kind of CEO I was... if truly interested http://bit.ly/tyjohnpepper http://bit.ly/tyjohnpepper

fleshweasel 13y ago

It sounds like Uber's business model is essentially in sidestepping the consumer protections that exist for conventional private driver and taxi companies. It reminds me of how credit card companies and PayPal sidestep consumer protections created for banks.

dnautics 13y ago
what consumer protections? I drive for lyft, and a large portion of the clientele is the GLBT community, who have stopped taking taxis because finally there is an alternative to being harassed and mistreated by the driver on account of their sexuality.
- fleshweasel 13y ago
  It's terrible that some taxi drivers are homophobic but it really does not change where uber is accountable. http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/27/uber-and-a-childs-death/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=1 http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/27/uber-and-a-childs-d... They have an obligation to society to not send out uninsured drivers who are distracted with their phones. This is a very profitable company and they are very capable of doing at least the former. I'm not sure how the latter problem could be solved except perhaps to demand that drivers pull over to receive requests through the app or whatever. http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/04/leaked-uber-numbers-which-weve-confirmed-point-to-over-1b-gross-revenue-213m-revenue/ http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/04/leaked-uber-numbers-which-w... The CEO unironically had Ayn Rand as his Twitter picture. I don't need more evidence than that to know somebody's a douchebag.

jellicle 13y ago

So let's do the math. $21/hour for 7 hours, $150/day, gross. I found some estimates online that a taxi driver might drive about 150 miles per day. Let's say 125 since this was sort of a short day. The IRS mileage allowance is 56 cents per mile - this is supposed to be an "all-in" number that includes all of the costs of owning and operating a vehicle. So that's $70/day for vehicle costs which the operator will have to pay - fuel, repairs, tires, whatever. So we'll knock that $150 down to $80. So he's earning around $12/hour, before taxes, doing one of the more dangerous professions (cab driver is more dangerous than police officer, for example), and he's doing it completely uninsured - if he cracks up that Tesla during an Uber trip his insurer is not going to pay out on it. If the Tesla is stolen during an Uber trip his insurer is not going to pay out on it. If he has one accident, ever, he'll lose more than he could ever earn from a lifetime of working for Uber. > 1. Never, ever try to call Uber with problems… because they don’t even have phones and there is very little if any reason to talk to them. And Uber won't even pick up the phone to talk to drivers.

jessaustin 13y ago
Your general point is a good one, but it's a mistake to simply take the IRS numbers for the maximum that it should cost to operate a passenger vehicle as a good estimate for what it does cost any particular driver. OTOH, it's possible that IRS is lowballing it in order to screw over people who drive for a living.
joe_the_user 13y ago
cab driver is more dangerous than police officer, for example While cab driving is one of the more dangerous occupations, I'd avoid that comparison. Police officer barely rates as occupation of above-average danger in most ratings of fields.
patrickg_zill 13y ago
It doesn't cost $70 per day to go 125 miles in a city. Otherwise my car with 59000 miles would have already costed me $33K in all expenses. It hasn't. Further, this is what the IRS allows you to DEDUCT. So his taxable income is reduced by the 56 cents per mile - to the extent that his costs are less than 56 cents per mile, he is making more due to the tax-advantaged nature. Also, at the end of the first year he can elect to either use per-mile deduction, or, the MACRS method, which may or may not give him an advantage (but he has to choose and use one or the other for subsequent tax years).

jsmeaton 13y ago

>What happened when Boloco founder John Pepper became an Uber driver This kind of article title is really starting to piss me off. Especially for this particular article where nothing "happened". It's just a QA with a new driver.