4 ms·

"P.S.2 Love donating? Help Egor on coinbase or paypal: homakov@gmail.com" Maybe it's just me, but asking for donations after saying you bill clients at $400/hr

by akerl_ 13y ago

"P.S.2 Love donating? Help Egor on coinbase or paypal: homakov@gmail.com" Maybe it's just me, but asking for donations after saying you bill clients at $400/hr seems weird to me. I wish I could bill at that rate.

jmathai 13y ago
Not everyone's time is equal. If you're finding security holes like Egor then an hour of your time is absolutely worth $400/hr.
- akerl_ 13y ago
  I totally believe that he's worth that amount of money. I'm sorry if you thought I was questioning that. I'm questioning the juxtaposition of his hourly rate with a request for donations.
  - gatehouse 13y ago
    I think the contract makes sense for clients, and the donation makes sense for other security researchers who want an incentive for him to keep publishing ideas.
  - jmathai 13y ago
    Understood. But I imagine that his work isn't quite as "steady" as one might expect. He invests time by trying to find security exploits in hopes that the affected company compensates him. He doesn't set his price or even determine if he gets paid for his time. I think that might be the rationale...or it might just be that he's found himself in a position where he can collect bounties AND donations :).
homakov 13y ago
There's a number of people who would like donate but not interested in consulting.. There were always people complaining "Add a donate address" Now "why you added a donate address". Oh, Internet.
- rdl 13y ago
  Is there a way to guarantee you will spend donations on alcohol and not waste them on things like rent or food?
  - gknoy 13y ago
    Send him an e-mail saying, "Hey, I sent you $100. I would deeply appreciate it if you spent it on your beverage of choice, or a nice dinner with a friend, rather than on necessities." It's no guarantee, of course. :)
  - shortly 13y ago
    yes. donate to someone who makes $400/hour.
    - usaphp 13y ago
      Charging $400/hour does not mean he does not need extra money. His nature of business is a short term projects, it's not like a regular web developer who has to work 40 hours a week for many month to finish a project, he only does audits which don't last long because of that you see this "high" (I personally don't think it's high) hourly rate.
      - rdl 13y ago
        It's actually a good strategy to price high hourly but over-deliver (doing lots of free work behind the scenes, or speculative unpaid work, etc.) -- rather than the market-clearing rate of ~100-150/hr, at least when you're trying to build a brand. At $400, he's clearly a specialist, and will get more interesting work; at $100/hr, you could hire him and just treat him like another developer, have him do cookie-cutter assessments, etc. Personally, I think he'd make more money at $400-600/hr if he could also get some kind of manager to handle the interactions with clients; it doesn't seem to be what he enjoys, or is particularly good at. (I've had drinks with him before, so probably the most effective way to accomplish my goal is to buy him drinks when I'm in town.)
6cxs2hd6 13y ago
Sure, I had a similar first reaction, but thought about it. If you have skills but haven't yet developed a deep-enough client base, you're in a quandary. You can't bill for $10/hour, or no one will take you seriously. You need perceived value, so you have to quote some reasonably high rate, even if you case-by-case discount it or work gratis. (At least that's how I imagine it must work. I've never consulted.)
patcon 13y ago
If you think $400/hr is great, you should see the rate for black-hatting :P
- shabble 13y ago
  Although you probably should factor in the possibility of several years of compulsory $0.30/hr labour, plus forfeiture of all your ill-gotten gains (and probably some healthily-gotten ones too, they're not so fussy) And that's before legal costs and possible restitution. </jokeruiner>
  - big_youth 13y ago
    Not a concern if you live in Russia or Eastern Europe.
    - ics 13y ago
      ...unless you like to travel.
jedicoffee 13y ago
Yea this is derp.

by akerl_ 13y ago

jmathai 13y ago

Not everyone's time is equal. If you're finding security holes like Egor then an hour of your time is absolutely worth $400/hr.

akerl_ 13y ago
I totally believe that he's worth that amount of money. I'm sorry if you thought I was questioning that. I'm questioning the juxtaposition of his hourly rate with a request for donations.
- gatehouse 13y ago
  I think the contract makes sense for clients, and the donation makes sense for other security researchers who want an incentive for him to keep publishing ideas.
- jmathai 13y ago
  Understood. But I imagine that his work isn't quite as "steady" as one might expect. He invests time by trying to find security exploits in hopes that the affected company compensates him. He doesn't set his price or even determine if he gets paid for his time. I think that might be the rationale...or it might just be that he's found himself in a position where he can collect bounties AND donations :).

homakov 13y ago

There's a number of people who would like donate but not interested in consulting.. There were always people complaining "Add a donate address" Now "why you added a donate address". Oh, Internet.

rdl 13y ago
Is there a way to guarantee you will spend donations on alcohol and not waste them on things like rent or food?
- gknoy 13y ago
  Send him an e-mail saying, "Hey, I sent you $100. I would deeply appreciate it if you spent it on your beverage of choice, or a nice dinner with a friend, rather than on necessities." It's no guarantee, of course. :)
- shortly 13y ago
  yes. donate to someone who makes $400/hour.
  - usaphp 13y ago
    Charging $400/hour does not mean he does not need extra money. His nature of business is a short term projects, it's not like a regular web developer who has to work 40 hours a week for many month to finish a project, he only does audits which don't last long because of that you see this "high" (I personally don't think it's high) hourly rate.
    - rdl 13y ago
      It's actually a good strategy to price high hourly but over-deliver (doing lots of free work behind the scenes, or speculative unpaid work, etc.) -- rather than the market-clearing rate of ~100-150/hr, at least when you're trying to build a brand. At $400, he's clearly a specialist, and will get more interesting work; at $100/hr, you could hire him and just treat him like another developer, have him do cookie-cutter assessments, etc. Personally, I think he'd make more money at $400-600/hr if he could also get some kind of manager to handle the interactions with clients; it doesn't seem to be what he enjoys, or is particularly good at. (I've had drinks with him before, so probably the most effective way to accomplish my goal is to buy him drinks when I'm in town.)

6cxs2hd6 13y ago

Sure, I had a similar first reaction, but thought about it. If you have skills but haven't yet developed a deep-enough client base, you're in a quandary. You can't bill for $10/hour, or no one will take you seriously. You need perceived value, so you have to quote some reasonably high rate, even if you case-by-case discount it or work gratis. (At least that's how I imagine it must work. I've never consulted.)

patcon 13y ago

If you think $400/hr is great, you should see the rate for black-hatting :P

shabble 13y ago
Although you probably should factor in the possibility of several years of compulsory $0.30/hr labour, plus forfeiture of all your ill-gotten gains (and probably some healthily-gotten ones too, they're not so fussy) And that's before legal costs and possible restitution. </jokeruiner>
- big_youth 13y ago
  Not a concern if you live in Russia or Eastern Europe.
  - ics 13y ago
    ...unless you like to travel.

jedicoffee 13y ago

Yea this is derp.