6 ms·

I For One Welcome Our New Robot Vocal Cords: Radical Computer Music

57 points by vimes656 13y ago

Renaud 13y ago
I love music and experimentation but I find those pieces portrayed there quite devoid of emotional content. I like the idea of procedural music being created automatically, but I believe that the end result still need to inspire and transport the listener. I have no doubts that we will be able to make some pretty convincing stuff in the future, and it probably won't be a lot worse than what's already playing in the charts.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- aethr 13y ago
  Genetic algorithms could eventually produce music that triggered a emotional response in humans. Your "fitness test" would need to be having real people listen to procedurally generated scores and rating the emotional impact (if any) of each sample. Perhaps a task for mechanical turk? In the end though, I think we seek out music or art that puts us in the mindset or emotional state of the artist. Forging a connection of shared experience. If the music tugged at all the right heartstrings, but you knew it wasn't made by a human, could you feel that depth of connection?
  - DLWormwood 13y ago
    > If the music tugged at all the right heartstrings, but you knew it wasn't made by a human, could you feel that depth of connection? I do think this is a false dichotomy of sorts. (Right turn of phrase?) The music may have been made by a machine, but humans made the machine. What ultimately is the difference between music “made” by a violin being directly played, verses a synthesizer reconstructing songs based on what a programmer did beforehand? It’s just a matter of degree. It might be more productive in discussions to look at the “artist” verses “committee” angle instead.
illicium 13y ago
TFA asks if a machine can sing, and doesn't mention Vocaloid?
- Gigablah 13y ago
  Vocaloid still relies on human vocal samples, though.
shangxiao 13y ago
Can someone translate this article into layspeak please?
bsaul 13y ago
About just as interesting as automatically generated novels. A machine has no intention. It doesn't "want" to turn itself on or off and play some music.
- normloman 13y ago
  Intention doesn't make a damn difference. Birds don't chose the notes in their songs, but they still sound beautiful. You can have a computer pick notes at random, and as long as someone listening finds beauty in it, it's good music.
- bliti 13y ago
  Not yet.
  - PavlovsCat 13y ago
    Unless AI just "happens" by itself, it will always be a result of human effort and ultimately an expression of human intent (if you ignore the pesky issue of free will, that is). But we generally love creating things and then worshipping them, so I'm pretty sure that will be quite lost on us when AI comes.
    - Zigurd 13y ago
      Do you think consciousness in animals "happens" by itself?
      - PavlovsCat 13y ago
        Yeah, as it does in humans, it's "just" the result of a long chain of events. But when it comes to art and my enjoyment of it, I kinda have to pretend there is free will, don't I. "Everything is everything, and nothing matters" is nice for meditation, but not something for day-to-day life. I believe that those who can't delude themselves about reality at least when it comes to free will cease to function. For this reason I also think AI will always have to be limited and/or irrational in a way, since otherwise it would simply realize everything leads to the heat death of the universe either way, and turn itself off, or do random things. So I pretend there is free will, and therefore the same "product" can mean different things to me depending on what the creator tried to convey. To give a silly example, I somewhat liked the song "I kissed a girl", but now that I know a dude wrote it, I don't anymore. I would fully agree that this is totally arbitrary; but I don't tell others what to like, I just have my own reasons for (not) liking things. And when AI happens I will be convinced that humans partly made it to escape themselves and their responsibility, and so I'll be with the luddites, pouting :P
e12e 13y ago
While not directly related to the article, but more related to the headline -- I was just catching up on some of what Beardyman's been up to lately: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPBM69nThkM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPBM69nThkM Now, that's one example of what human vocal cords (with various degrees computer augmentation) are capable of. While the things discussed in the article may be interesting... the reference to vocal cords seems somewhat misplaced? [edit: I should perhaps clarify/highlight that the above video does not feature drum machines etc -- "only" sampling, looping and "warping". Easier to follow, is this video I like to call "I was hip-hop before ducks": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39n4wow8fWE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39n4wow8fWE ]
- e12e 13y ago
  Well, not quite no other effects, according to an article on his new setup: "Helping him drive it are three iPads, two of which control the Beardytron and one that uses apps for extra noises. He also has keyboards, Native Instruments Guitar Rig, and Rob Papen’s delay as part of the setup." http://www.djtechtools.com/2012/12/12/the-beardytron-5000-mkii-building-beardymans-ultimate-live-production-system/ http://www.djtechtools.com/2012/12/12/the-beardytron-5000-mk... [edit2: Although according to his TED talk, it only reuses noises he puts in, so I guess it's an open question if he's moved to include "external" samples or not... http://www.ted.com/talks/beardyman_the_polyphonic_me.html http://www.ted.com/talks/beardyman_the_polyphonic_me.html ] [edit: apparently that article wasn't submitted to hn, as I'm guessing it's a good fit, now it is: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7195664 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7195664 ]
hmsimha 13y ago
Somehow, digging in deeper on this subject led me to another video (which I just shared - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7195652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7195652) of a player piano emulating human speech by reproducing the part of the spectral fingerprint within it's range. Eerie
dcre 13y ago
For those talking about the lack of emotional content, I found that this video -- for Holly Herndon's "Movement" -- helped some of this work make more sense. Of course, Herndon's music isn't really "automatically generated" and features a lot of human vocal samples. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kanNN4RPrOf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kanNN4RPrOf (NSFW, in most workplaces -- two dancers in underwear.)
- smallerize 13y ago
  That video is unavailable.
pessimizer 13y ago
I found this article very difficult to read, and while it talks a lot about procedural music, I don't think that any of the people it covers are making any except the "Birthday Song Crew", who are clearly geniuses. It did, however, introduce me to http://yaxu.org/tidal/ http://yaxu.org/tidal/ which is going to force me to finally learn Haskell.
- yaxu 13y ago
  Yes I guess tidal is declarative rather than procedural music.
- lifeformed 13y ago
  I had trouble reading this too. I mean, all the words made sense, but it didn't feel like it was making any specific points? It sounds like a dictation of a stream of thoughts loosely related to experimental electronic music.
faceface1286 13y ago
I feel like this article is procedurally generated.

57 points by vimes656 13y ago

I love music and experimentation but I find those pieces portrayed there quite devoid of emotional content. I like the idea of procedural music being created automatically, but I believe that the end result still need to inspire and transport the listener. I have no doubts that we will be able to make some pretty convincing stuff in the future, and it probably won't be a lot worse than what's already playing in the charts.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
aethr 13y ago
Genetic algorithms could eventually produce music that triggered a emotional response in humans. Your "fitness test" would need to be having real people listen to procedurally generated scores and rating the emotional impact (if any) of each sample. Perhaps a task for mechanical turk? In the end though, I think we seek out music or art that puts us in the mindset or emotional state of the artist. Forging a connection of shared experience. If the music tugged at all the right heartstrings, but you knew it wasn't made by a human, could you feel that depth of connection?
- DLWormwood 13y ago
  > If the music tugged at all the right heartstrings, but you knew it wasn't made by a human, could you feel that depth of connection? I do think this is a false dichotomy of sorts. (Right turn of phrase?) The music may have been made by a machine, but humans made the machine. What ultimately is the difference between music “made” by a violin being directly played, verses a synthesizer reconstructing songs based on what a programmer did beforehand? It’s just a matter of degree. It might be more productive in discussions to look at the “artist” verses “committee” angle instead.

illicium 13y ago

TFA asks if a machine can sing, and doesn't mention Vocaloid?

Gigablah 13y ago
Vocaloid still relies on human vocal samples, though.

shangxiao 13y ago

Can someone translate this article into layspeak please?

bsaul 13y ago

About just as interesting as automatically generated novels. A machine has no intention. It doesn't "want" to turn itself on or off and play some music.

normloman 13y ago
Intention doesn't make a damn difference. Birds don't chose the notes in their songs, but they still sound beautiful. You can have a computer pick notes at random, and as long as someone listening finds beauty in it, it's good music.
bliti 13y ago
Not yet.
- PavlovsCat 13y ago
  Unless AI just "happens" by itself, it will always be a result of human effort and ultimately an expression of human intent (if you ignore the pesky issue of free will, that is). But we generally love creating things and then worshipping them, so I'm pretty sure that will be quite lost on us when AI comes.
  - Zigurd 13y ago
    Do you think consciousness in animals "happens" by itself?
    - PavlovsCat 13y ago
      Yeah, as it does in humans, it's "just" the result of a long chain of events. But when it comes to art and my enjoyment of it, I kinda have to pretend there is free will, don't I. "Everything is everything, and nothing matters" is nice for meditation, but not something for day-to-day life. I believe that those who can't delude themselves about reality at least when it comes to free will cease to function. For this reason I also think AI will always have to be limited and/or irrational in a way, since otherwise it would simply realize everything leads to the heat death of the universe either way, and turn itself off, or do random things. So I pretend there is free will, and therefore the same "product" can mean different things to me depending on what the creator tried to convey. To give a silly example, I somewhat liked the song "I kissed a girl", but now that I know a dude wrote it, I don't anymore. I would fully agree that this is totally arbitrary; but I don't tell others what to like, I just have my own reasons for (not) liking things. And when AI happens I will be convinced that humans partly made it to escape themselves and their responsibility, and so I'll be with the luddites, pouting :P

e12e 13y ago

While not directly related to the article, but more related to the headline -- I was just catching up on some of what Beardyman's been up to lately: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPBM69nThkM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPBM69nThkM Now, that's one example of what human vocal cords (with various degrees computer augmentation) are capable of. While the things discussed in the article may be interesting... the reference to vocal cords seems somewhat misplaced? [edit: I should perhaps clarify/highlight that the above video does not feature drum machines etc -- "only" sampling, looping and "warping". Easier to follow, is this video I like to call "I was hip-hop before ducks": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39n4wow8fWE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39n4wow8fWE ]

e12e 13y ago
Well, not quite no other effects, according to an article on his new setup: "Helping him drive it are three iPads, two of which control the Beardytron and one that uses apps for extra noises. He also has keyboards, Native Instruments Guitar Rig, and Rob Papen’s delay as part of the setup." http://www.djtechtools.com/2012/12/12/the-beardytron-5000-mkii-building-beardymans-ultimate-live-production-system/ http://www.djtechtools.com/2012/12/12/the-beardytron-5000-mk... [edit2: Although according to his TED talk, it only reuses noises he puts in, so I guess it's an open question if he's moved to include "external" samples or not... http://www.ted.com/talks/beardyman_the_polyphonic_me.html http://www.ted.com/talks/beardyman_the_polyphonic_me.html ] [edit: apparently that article wasn't submitted to hn, as I'm guessing it's a good fit, now it is: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7195664 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7195664 ]

hmsimha 13y ago

Somehow, digging in deeper on this subject led me to another video (which I just shared - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7195652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7195652) of a player piano emulating human speech by reproducing the part of the spectral fingerprint within it's range. Eerie

dcre 13y ago

For those talking about the lack of emotional content, I found that this video -- for Holly Herndon's "Movement" -- helped some of this work make more sense. Of course, Herndon's music isn't really "automatically generated" and features a lot of human vocal samples. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kanNN4RPrOf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kanNN4RPrOf (NSFW, in most workplaces -- two dancers in underwear.)

smallerize 13y ago
That video is unavailable.

pessimizer 13y ago

I found this article very difficult to read, and while it talks a lot about procedural music, I don't think that any of the people it covers are making any except the "Birthday Song Crew", who are clearly geniuses. It did, however, introduce me to http://yaxu.org/tidal/ http://yaxu.org/tidal/ which is going to force me to finally learn Haskell.

yaxu 13y ago
Yes I guess tidal is declarative rather than procedural music.
lifeformed 13y ago
I had trouble reading this too. I mean, all the words made sense, but it didn't feel like it was making any specific points? It sounds like a dictation of a stream of thoughts loosely related to experimental electronic music.

faceface1286 13y ago

I feel like this article is procedurally generated.