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CVS Caremark pharmacies to halt tobacco sales
- cma 13y agolifehacker.com to continue interspersing Gawker and Jezebel story links amongst treatises on focus and productivity.
- doktrin 13y agoHuh?
- icantthinkofone 13y agoIn this day and age, I am continually astounded that people smoke and take up smoking.
- rglullis 13y agoLet me guess. West Coast USA?
- icantthinkofone 13y agoNope. St. Louis
- nawitus 13y agoI'm not. Smoking a little (e.g. 1 cigarette a day) is inexpensive, has very little harmful effects to your health but allows you to enjoy the cultural experience of that particular drug. For some reason people these days think that it's pretty much okay to drink a lot of alcohol which is very expensive and very unhealthy, but if someone smokes here and there it's "crazy", "stupid" and "very expensive". Nicotine itself has plenty of beneficial effects: http://www.gwern.net/Nicotine http://www.gwern.net/Nicotine
- DanBC 13y ago(I accidentally downvoted you. Sorry.) Buying cigarettes means giving money to tobacco companies. I firmly believe these are an example of corporations bein evil - which I understand is a controversial opinion on HN. The tactics (spread fear and misunderstanding; discredit your oponents) have been taken up by other campaign groups (eg, anti climate change groups) often using the same scientists for hire. "Vaping" avoids most of the social stigma of smoking and if you buy carefully you avoid giving money to tobacco companies.
- eli 13y agoI think there's still a pretty significant stigma against smoking an e-cig in public, but I guess YMMV.
- DanBC 13y agoI agree. I like the fact that some people are careful about where and when they "vape" - not in feont of children, not around people eating etc etc.
- a8da6b0c91d 13y ago> Vaping Nicotine on its own is vasoconstrictive. The compounds in tobacco smoke altogether are dialative. Tobacco smoke has MOAB agonists and aromatase inhibitors. Tobacco smoke lowers serotonin sensitivity while I don't think pure nicotine does this. Vaping is really not a substitute for tobacco smoke as it is missing a bunch of chemicals.
- mortov 13y agoYou sound like a 1950's Doctor paid by the tobacco industry. Are you serious or did I miss a <satire> tag ?
- ggreer 13y agoOne can get nicotine through e-cigs, patches, or gum. There's no need to inhale a bunch of things that are bad for you. Even if tobacco was perfectly healthy, it has other issues. It ruins your sense of taste, making foods bland. Many people dislike the smell. And smoking just one cigarette a day requires near-superhuman willpower. It would likely become an expensive habit.
- kenshiro_o 13y agoI think aside the physical dependence one may have from prolonged smoking, quite a few people see it as a cultural thing that's part of their lifestyle. Maybe if we could better predict mortality rates due to smoking, and convey this in ads, people would realize how bad it is. Until they are faced with their mortality in a more brutal way, they will not change attitudes towards smoking. Changing bad habits is very hard. See how difficult it is for obese people to lose significant weight, and not relapse into obesity.
- DanBC 13y agoI don't think people care about dying from smoking. I think if we could accurately tell people about the effects of smoking at dofferent levels that might make a difference. Smoking is apparently one of the leading cause of erectile dysfunction. Perhaps it's a sneaky trick to ise that, but if true it could help persuade some men to avoid smoking. It reminds me of a Soviet political poster I saw about alcohol. It had the male symbol but the arrow was drooping. Funny and quick. male ♂
- a3n 13y agoMy parents both smoked. I graduated high school in 1975. I never took it up, in part because I was nerdishly unaffected by peer pressure from the cool kids, in part because it just never interested me, in part because I knew that it would kill me. There were lots of PSAs in that era about the dangers of smoking, so I think it was also partly a rebellion on my part, against "those stupid adults." I've been very up front and unrelenting with my kid about smoking and other hazards. I think I've been successful so far. It helps that not that many kids smoke, so I think there's less peer pressure. I think it'll take another generation or two before it's all but unseen. I too am amazed that anyone takes up smoking. I see younger coworkers in their twenties out taking a smoke break, and I can't believe how such smart and gifted people can be so idiotic. Not that I have it all together, I just don't smoke. Lots of other things I could improve on.
- Shivetya 13y agoIts how many professionals that smoke, let alone smoke at work that forever astounds me. Especially when these same people will belittle others over quirks or other actions they deem stupid. Got to love it when my friend goes on about how unsafe my motorcycling is while she is taking a drag. My favorite bit about smoking, people will go into the gas station and buy a pack of smokes and a lottery ticket ignoring the near certain outcomes.
- luckyno13 13y agoMy favorite thing about smokers is when it gets cold outside and I get to watch as they squirm making the decision as to whether its worth freezing just to have a smoke.
- mortov 13y agoI never understood why people take it up either but I had a friend a long time ago that tried a couple of cigarettes on a night out (the usual, out for a drink, people were smoking so he tried it - it was a long time ago when smoking was 'normal'). Anyway, months later he started lighting up and I asked him what he was doing ? He said he just couldn't stop; I was incredulous and said but you just had a few draws on a night out how does that work? He was adamant that the addiction was immediate and there was nothing he could do to stop. Some people just seem to be wired differently and even a small exposure is all it takes. I think other addictions to [illegal] drugs are the same - smoking has a little less stigma since it is legal (but's it's certainly not socially acceptable like it used to be 'in the old-en days' when I was younger).
- angersock 13y agoTry it sometime--you might like it.
- icantthinkofone 13y agoI did try it when I was a young kid, around 10 or so, and many people smoked. I tried it cause it supposedly made you cool. And, yes, I never inhaled the first time cause I coughed too much. When I was in my teens, I went with some friends out and about and they all smoked. They told me I had to take small breaths to get used to inhaling the smoke. I tried it and felt the overwhelming fogginess it brought to my lungs. I was an athlete and immediately sensed how it was clogging things up. My lungs were trying to tell me something! That was many decades ago and I have not picked up a cigarette since and never will. I had a girlfriend who smoked. When we broke up, she said that the one thing she was grateful to me for was getting her to quit smoking. She said, "Everything smells better and tastes better and I don't run out of breath all the time." I was great in bed, too.
- taternuts 13y agoprobably because they are making enough money selling e-cigs to make up for it.
- rm999 13y agoCVS has always refused to sell e-cigs, as I understand it. They certainly don't right now. edit: just found this: >CVS does not sell electronic cigarettes, the highly popular but debated devices that deliver nicotine without tobacco and emit a rapidly vanishing vapor instead of smoke. It said it was waiting for guidance on the devices from the Food and Drug Administration, which has expressed interest in regulating e-cigarettes. source: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/06/business/cvs-plans-to-end-sales-of-tobacco-products-by-october.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/06/business/cvs-plans-to-end-...
- taternuts 13y agoCool, I just assumed they sold e-cigs - thanks for the correction.
- gatehouse 13y agoOne interesting thing I picked up from Damian McBride's political memoir was that the most progressive (in the taxation sense) change that they could make to the VAT would be to lower the taxes on cigarettes and alcohol.
- onion2k 13y agoHere in the UK the only shops that sell cigarettes are supermarkets and independent newsagents, and neither is allowed to have them on display - they're on shelves behind the counter with shutters or curtains in front. Some bars have vending machines for them, but even that's becoming quite uncommon. I imagine within a decade supermarkets will have stopped selling them altogether so the few remaining smokers will have to hunt out little backstreet shops that still stock them. To learn that cigarettes are sold in pharmacies in the USA is frankly incredible.
- meddlepal 13y agoIn the US, Pharmacies are basically just convenience stores with an actual pharmacy/prescription pill-dispensary in the back. Not sure what they are like in the UK, are they more formal?
- davb 13y agoIn the UK, pharmacies sell pharmaceuticals, healthcare, beauty and toiletry products. I was really surprised when I last visited the US to find a pharmacy with a deli counter, electronics aisles and a fridge full of frosty beers. It really was just a slick, well-stocked convenience store.
- DanBC 13y agoWe have a store called SuperDrug which is similar, but no tobacco or alcohol. We also have Boots which tend to be bigger than SuperDrug, and again no cigs or booze. Both of those are similar to I guess Walgreens and CVS, from my limited experience of California.
- eli 13y agoCVS/Caremark is trying to be a real healthcare company (Caremark is a massive prescription drug benefit management subsidiary). But, in some places in the US, CVS the store is more like a general store or even a corner grocery. Some CVS stores do not sell prescription drugs at all.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- a8da6b0c91d 13y agoTobacco does have some well documented medicinal qualities, believe it or not. There's no shortage of things at CVS that can harm through abuse.
- tghw 13y agoThat's clearly not how it's being used in this case.
- cheald 13y agoNicotine has a lot of really great qualities, but anyone trying to justify smoking or chewing tobacco for its medical benefits is in denial.
- a8da6b0c91d 13y agoThere are a lot of people who have found that one or two cigarettes a day keeps depression at bay. There are biochemical reasons to believe them. Who are you to tell them they should have to get a prescription SSRI?
- cheald 13y agoThat would be the nicotine stimulating the release of glutamine and dopamine. The value there is in the nicotine, not in the tobacco. You can get nicotine separately from tobacco trivially. The false choice of cigarettes or SSRIs is silly.
- a8da6b0c91d 13y agoIt's not just nicotine. Tobacco smoke has compounds like beta-globulines that lower serotonin and estrogen. There are also arguments that low doses of carbon monoxide can have therapeutic affects.
- cheald 13y ago...but reduced serotonin levels are linked to depression. The entire point of SSRIs is to keep your serotonin levels higher and thus improve synaptic signalling. Wouldn't reducing your serotonin production be bad? Edit: Here's a link to a cross-sectional study showing a cause-effect relationship between smoking and depression. http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/197/5/413.full http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/197/5/413.full
- hairama 13y agoThis could mean that they're moving the cigarettes from the pharmacy proper, to the regular retail area--with a healthy amount of spin.
- jack-r-abbit 13y agoI'm pretty sure they've always been behind the checkout counter. Most (all?) stores that sell smokes keep them somewhat guarded to prevent people (particularly minors) from stealing them.
- MBCook 13y agoCigarettes aren't in the pharmacy area of my local CVSes, they're at the front of the store behind the regular cashier.
- dragonwriter 13y agoThe only thing in the pharmacy proper are controlled (mostly prescription, but their are a few non-prescription pharmacy-counter-only) drugs.
- jack-r-abbit 13y agoWhile I applaud the stand they are taking against this killer product, it does seem a bit hypocritical that they will continue to sell junk food and liquor.
- cheald 13y agoI agree, they should do a full rebrand and only sell organic kale and granola.
- viraptor 13y agoOr not take it to any extreme and just remove the most unhealthy products? Possibly replacing them with something on the healthy side of "neutral", without going into "only organic" craze either.
- cheald 13y agoWhat are the "most unhealthy" products, exactly? Where do you set the bar?
- MrZongle2 13y agoWell that's the problem, isn't it? The bar never stops moving. Today, it's cigarettes. Tomorrow, it's e-cigarettes. Then it's sugary sodas. Then cookies. Eventually, the store sells tofu and free-range cotton balls.
- cheald 13y agoNot just that it never stops moving, but that it's arbitrary. What I consider unacceptably unhealthy is entirely different from what you may consider unacceptably unhealthy. My original point was that if we're going to eliminate all the unhealthy things, we might as well just keep going until we're all buying nothing but raw vegetables.
- viraptor 13y ago
- christopheraden 13y agoMy first question was how CVS-Caremark, a publicly traded company would be allowed to do this, considering it would hurt their bottom line. I didn't think ethics were a reasonable excuse for knowingly hampering profits, unless they felt there was some long-term benefit to their business of not selling cigarettes. Fiduciary duty trumps morals. Does it have anything to do with the fact that CVS-Caremark is one of the largest PBMs in the US (second only to ExpressScripts, actually)? There's more at play here than just a moral action.
- twoodfin 13y agoAs has been repeated many times here, there is no legal "fiduciary duty" that requires profit maximization in lieu of every other business goal. They don't need a reason any better than good PR.
- colinbartlett 13y agoPublic companies do not have a "fiduciary duty" to put profits ahead of morals. Whatever made you think that was the case? Executives are beholden to the board who is beholden to the shareholders. If the shareholders don't want this, they can force change at any level.
- wbrendel 13y agoWhatever made you think that was the case? Probably because public companies frequently use this as an excuse for their immoral business practices. Examples? Basically any health insurance company in the US.
- MBCook 13y agoThere are a couple of benefits to doing this: 1) They look better 2) They get extra shelf space back 3) They don't have to secure all those high-dollar cigarettes or worry about their theft 4) As smoking declines, they'll probably eventually have to do this anyway, so why not get some positive spin out of it? I'm willing to guess they've run the number and know this isn't going to be a huge hit to their business.
- 13y ago
- tzs 13y agoGood move for CVS. A rational clear case can be made that a pharmacy should not be selling products whose primary use is subversion of our health. The notion is in fact rather bazaar. It perforce sends a bad message when a store operating under the aegis of a state license to sell medicine sells something as bad for you as cigarettes.