11 ms·

iOS holding my phone number hostage = the worst bug I’ve ever experienced

417 points by benstein 13y ago

dippyskoodlez 13y ago
If message histories are your only copy of family/friends photos, you're doing it wrong.
- skolos 13y ago
  This is a such wrong reply. The OP did not complain about his message history, he was talking about message histories of all his friends and relatives. Do you really think it could be socially acceptable to approach each of your friends and relative and tell them: "If message histories are your only copy of family/friends photos, you're doing it wrong." ?
  - pmr_ 13y ago
    I don't even think it is acceptable to approach each of your friends and relatives and pester them with some technical issue that shouldn't exist in the first place. The proposed fix just isn't a viable solution.
    - shinratdr 13y ago
      This is true, but on the flipside it's hardly Apple's fault if the only copy they have of highly important and sentimental photos is a cached messaging stream. There are countless ways to back up that data. It's like blaming Microsoft because you didn't save transferred files during a Skype session. Once they're on you're end, they're your problem. Apple's job is to send them and make sure they arrive, that's it. This bug sucks and Apple's solution isn't a good one, but that rebuttal is equally weak. Use PhoneDisk, PhoneView or one of the other methods to pull a text messaging history if it's that important to you and then blow it away.
  - dippyskoodlez 13y ago
    I wasn't even commenting regarding the stuck number, which is clearly an issue. I was arguing that this: "the vast majority of messaging I’ve done in the past 3 years are group messages with pictures of our children." It just screams data loss to ruin your day. I was (kinda) hoping OP would see that and maybe rethink his storage plans, because otherwise he'll be posting "wahh my photos weren't backed up" soon enough.
- deleted 13y ago
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TazeTSchnitzel 13y ago
>IOS Hacker News's automatic capitalisation strikes again! I thought this was about Cisco IOS for a moment.
gatehouse 13y ago
It probably costs like $5 to change your phone number. I think that's the best option at this point.
- q3k 13y ago
  And it possibly costs you new business cards, and having to let everyone know that you have a new number, and changing any social profiles, etc. ...or Apple could stop making crappy software like this ;)
  - gatehouse 13y ago
    One of these options is under your control, one isn't.
  - skolos 13y ago
    Unfortunately Apple has zero incentive to fix this bug. Why should they care about customers they already lost?
    - jarcoal 13y ago
      I try and be very helpful to customers I'm losing... they might come back one day or recommend someone to me.
    - noblethrasher 13y ago
      Well, it will at least annoy their tech savvy customers since they know that it's Apple's bug.
    - jasonlotito 13y ago
      So when a new potential customer comes in, they don't have to worry about vendor lock in.
    - gatehouse 13y ago
      The fucked up thing is that is actually benefits Apple. The economic value of your subscribers it approximately the number of subscribers times the switching cost. This bug raises the switching cost and therefore makes their customers more valuable.
baby 13y ago
I know it's annoying but the best solution here just seems to change your number. Don't lose your mind over this one. edit : seems like people don't understand my post. If you have a voice, the good thing to do is to make a blog post and submit it to websites like HN. The guy did it, now what can he do if he needs a quick fix? If he's in rush? Change number. It's really not that terrible and I do it every year without trouble.
- leobelle 13y ago
  Yes, asking everyone to use a new number is less work than asking people to delete all their imessage threads. Updating contact info at work and with services shifts the burden to him.
  - baby 13y ago
    I don't get if your comment is sarcastic or not. If it is, I don't see why it would be such a huge problem. It's a quickfix and if I were him, and in a rush to fix the problem, I would do that. I'm personally changing my phone number every year and it's never been a burden.
    - leobelle 13y ago
      It wasn't sarcastic I was agreeing with you. I guess other people thought I was being sarcastic too because you got downvoted and I didn't. I don't know, seems kind of obvious. I use google voice, I never have to change my number when switching phones. I don't know how that would impact imessage. I wouldn't ever use such a service baked into the phone by the phone maker.
- ars 13y ago
  What happens to the next person who gets that number?
  - baby 13y ago
    if he doesn't have the same friends it's not a problem. I mean, he wrote that blog post, posted on HN and on various websites. It's getting attention. It's good. Now the guy still has to fix it so he can still contact his friends.
m_mueller 13y ago
Wouldn't it work to lend an iPhone, turn it on with the SIM holding the number and then switch off iMessages there? Wouldn't this invalidate the cached account in other iPhones?
- morpher 13y ago
  No this does not work. Group MMS from iohones are still dropped (as the article clearly describes).
  - m_mueller 13y ago
    I don't see how the group MMS show that this wouldn't work - the question is whether cached accounts get purged through this client action, both on server and peers.
juliangindi 13y ago
Changing your number should not be the solution to this problem. I recently switched from iOS to Android and have been experiencing the same issues. The OP's title says it best, "IOS holding my phone number hostage." Changing my number would require an incredible amount of inconvenience. Apple needs to address this immediately.
noblethrasher 13y ago
The same thing happened to my Mom when she switched to Android this past Christmas. The solution in that case was to get her to connect her old iPhone to the Internet via Wi-Fi, and then disable iMessages. I assume that you would need to disable iMessages on all your iDevices in order to remedy the problem.
relix 13y ago
Did you try putting your SIM card back into your iPhone, then going to Settings > Messages and turning off iMessage over there? Make sure you have an internet connection too so it can "broadcast" your new status to Apple HQ. This is what I do when I'm abroad and don't want to dataroam. It's possible you already tried that and it won't make a difference - I don't use group messaging a lot.
- zht 13y ago
  "Let me recap: I no longer have iPhone"
  - Haywain 13y ago
    This would also work if a friend lent him their phone. Of course, he'd have to do a backup > wipe > setup phone with his iCloud account & SIM > change settings > wipe > restore from backup... but, honestly, this is the process I had to do and it took about 5-10 mins tops. I had this same exact problem, and this was by far the easiest solution. Just need to have a friend willing to you let you manhandle their phone for a little while.
- owenwil 13y ago
  Yeah, all that OP has to do is go into the settings on the iPhone and either unlink the phone number or disable iMessage entirely and it'll go back to normal. It just required some forethought other than simply wiping the phone. I don't understand what the issue is; the feature is there so that you can be iMessaged if your phone happens to be turned off for a few days. If the phone number was de-linked immediately what would the use in that be? It expires after 10 days, anyway.
  - benstein 13y ago
    Nope. I still have the iPhone. Everything is unlinked, deactivated, reset, etc in every way possible.
    - owenwil 13y ago
nirajd 13y ago
I had the same issue when switching to a Nexus 5. https://appleid.apple.com https://appleid.apple.com Try going here and removing the phone number from the "Phone Numbers" section. I still have friends who try to message me and their iOS assumes I'm using iMessage. The "retry as SMS" feature is the only method that works.
- stevenelliottjr 13y ago
  Also make sure to tell them "Send as SMS" is enabled on their iMessage settings. This will automatically try to re-send it as a text without manual intervention.
- mkreef 13y ago
  My wife just switched from an iPhone to a Note 3 and this concerned me, but I was surprised her cell number is not listed with her apple id.
itsdrewmiller 13y ago
I'm having what I think is the same problem just from getting my broken iPhone 5 replaced with a new one. Same deal with tech support - very nice, but not able to solve the problem. Sounds like a bug in iOS that could seriously stand fixing.
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0x0 13y ago
This article claims resetting your apple ID password will disassociate the imessage phone number: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5538 http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5538
- benstein 13y ago
  Yup. Tried resetting everything possible. So did Apple support. And they escalated to engineers who also said they have no more records of my number server-side. But there's no way to clear the client side caches.
  - jey 13y ago
    So it's clearly a bug or intentional misfeature by Apple.
  - 0x0 13y ago
    That sucks, if it is the case. It only takes a second or two for a newly added number to switch from green to blue (I'm sure it's some kind of HTTP number lookup request to an *.apple.com web service), so why couldn't they re-request that every time - or at least keep the caches down to like 15-30 minutes...
  - ac29 13y ago
    Do iOS apps not have a clear data/clear cache system level option like android does? If not, what do you do to wipe an app's data?
    - noselasd 13y ago
      It does. Since it's cached on every device of the people that has sent messages to him, each one of them will either 1. Wipe out the iMessage data - which is all their message history. or 2. Manually delete every message/thread the OP has been involved in. That's not going to happen.
      - fpgeek 13y ago
rdoherty 13y ago
I'm experiencing the same problem, I've tried: 1) Turning off iMessage on old iPhone 2) Removing phone number from my Apple account 3) Friends removing my cell # from their address books and a few other random things. Nothing has fixed it. The only way a friend with an iOS device can SMS me is if they turn of iMessage. This is a pretty huge bug on Apple's part.
- Nicholas_C 13y ago
  Same here. Incredibly frustrating. Did you unregister your device(s)? After doing this I think people's iPhones know your number isn't an iPhone anymore and after it fails to send the iMessage it sends it as a regular message. The below link helped me: http://support.vodafone.com.au/articles/FAQ/How-to-deactivate-iMessage-if-you-re-switching-from-iPhone http://support.vodafone.com.au/articles/FAQ/How-to-deactivat... I'm still having occasional problems with not getting texts but for the most part it's fixed.
  - rdoherty 13y ago
    Yup, I unregistered my devices too. Will double check and follow that link's instructions.
- blowski 13y ago
  From Apple's perspective, it sounds like quite a handy bug. Since I've been an iPhone user for 5 years, this bug makes me locked in to the iOS environment. Given that they have established a market-distorting barrier to exit, they should be ordered by a court to fix this issue.
- TWAndrews 13y ago
  That's odd. I made the same switch, but when I turned off iMessage on my old phone, texts from contacts with iPhones are sent correctly to my new android device.
danielsju6 13y ago
I'm currently having to deal with this too. The best solution that I found was switching my number and keeping the iPhone, jailbreaking it, and installing BiteSMS with forwarding. It's kinda a pain and of course I have to pay to keep the iPhone around.
RyanZAG 13y ago
Just think, if you hadn't used a proprietary messaging solution as your default contact method, you'd be able to easily control how you receive the messages. Maybe stuff like this happening is a good thing as it drills home the point the 'crazy free software lunatics' have been going on about for some time. Having this kind of thing happen to someone makes the stuff FSF+co says a bit more relevant and ultimately helps everyone.
- sneak 13y ago
  > Maybe stuff like this happening is a good thing as it drills home the point Ugh, thinking like this just may well be the biggest problem in our industry. Stop being user-hostile.
  - wwweston 13y ago
    I don't know that RyanZAG is so much being user-hostile as reminding us that there are facts of non-free systems that are going translate to user-hostile for at least some subset of users. There's incentives for people who make closed systems to make the most common edges of them comfortable. There's also incentives for them to ignore other sharp edges or to even actively make other edges nearly untraversable.
    - josh2600 13y ago
      I came here to say exactly this. Source: I work in the guts of some of the biggest telecom networks on the planet. Federation is a problem because none of the standards interop. The closest thing we had was XMPP which became mega-bloatware as time went by and is now just not something anyone wants to implement (and it's becoming less of an issue as most of the players move away from open-ness). While the technical among us understand the ramifications of these decisions, the silent majority do not. I believe it was Elad Gil who said that services that eschew privacy have historically dominated their more private opponents. Users say they care about privacy but their explicit value systems (what they say versus what they do) says otherwise. The majority of consumers are happy to take iMessage and use it to the extreme and will attribute silent failures to the operators in most cases (which is not necessarily wrong). True federated identity is the death of the phone network and there are just too many billions of dollars tied up in the world for this to come to pass. A phone number is a ridiculously arbitrary identifier for a person, and yet it works and has worked for quite some time. Logically addressed networks are finally starting to break, and that's a good thing, but the catalyst that will move us away from these systems is one that subsumes existing infrastructure while adding new features. You cannot rip and replace our communications networks (or any infrastructure for that matter) and so the only logical solution is to subsume. It's not easy, but that's how this gets fixed.
deleted 13y ago
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feelstupid 13y ago
Solution wise, even if iOS devs created a fix to purge the cache older than X weeks and to recechk it would still require all your friends to install the update before it takes affect, so I don't even see a fully fixed and timely solution to this.
stevenelliottjr 13y ago
Changing your Apple Id Password works like a charm too. It will log you out of your iMessage services. I did this when I switched to Galaxy Note 3.
nej 13y ago
I too switched to Android after Apple released iOS7 and have been having similar issues. The only solution I've found so far that still doesn't fix 100% of the problems is by asking friends and relatives to log out of iMessage, restart their phone then log back in.
nwienert 13y ago
This has been happening for over 2 years now. I've met multiple people in real life (including total non-techies) that have run into this. It's more common than you'd think. Basically anyone moving from an iPhone to Android (or any other phone I assume) will have this problem. At this point, it's obvious Apple is ok with this. It's a giant "fuck you" to anyone moving away from them and it leaves a bad taste in your mouth knowing they do this purposely.
- eridius 13y ago
  That's incredibly presumptuous of you to claim Apple is doing this purposely. It seems pretty obvious to me that it's a non-trivial fix for Apple, and that there's simply no good incentive for them to prioritize fixing this over the myriad other things their engineers could be spending their time on.
  - piyush_soni 13y ago
    Isn't the first part of your comment kind of contradictory to the second part?
  - fpgeek 13y ago
    > there's simply no good incentive for them to prioritize fixing this There's plenty of incentive for them to fix this. OP is far from the only one calling Apple customer support or going to a Genius bar over this issue. Those costs add up, unless they're also considering the incentives on the other side of the ledger.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    Fixing it is the right thing to do. They're seriously screwing with people's communications otherwise. If you're saying that they're avoiding the right thing because it's too hard and there's no incentive, then to me that is essentially saying that they are doing it on purpose.
  - pistle 13y ago
    Based on the "2 years" anecdote above, maybe it's something they could have got around to while completely revamping iOS. There are about few primary moving parts and OP indicates it's a known issue that can be resolved on clients. Too bad Apple has no control over that client OS, right? It's not a big problem to deal with. There is no motivation to fix it. It's not that Apple is doing anything purposefully. It's that they aren't, and won't, do anything to help since they know that OP (and that ilk) are not their customers. If OP didn't want to "lose" all his friends/network, he would have just got a 5s and shut up.
ivrrimum 13y ago
Just change phone number... lol
darkpicnic 13y ago
Exact. Same. Issue. All their solutions do not work. I've reset Apple ID and wiped all my old iOS devices. Roughly 90% of my friends cannot text me anymore. What's comical about this is how easy it is to fix: have a cache that breaks weekly; upon new text message, ping Apple HQ and see if device is iOS and has iMessage installed; great, save for a week.
- macspoofing 13y ago
  You can do better than that. User marks iMessage account as 'inactive'. Next time someone tries to send to his address via iMessage, ping their client with an "invalidate-cache-and-send-as-SMS" status code, and it's done. Everything is handled transparently to the sending user. No matter what, it would require some sort of update.
hakcermani 13y ago
Yup, have been hit by this, but not as bad as I use both platforms. Glad you wrote about it though.
sneak 13y ago
Preventative step: set your outbound iMessage "caller id" to your email address instead of your phone number. Do this now, before you're bitten by the bug. (Apple's degraded QA as of late on iOS means you'll also have to change it back on ALL your devices on the account any time you add or remove any devices or numbers to iMessage or FaceTime on that Apple ID, too.) This way, all your contacts are iMessaging with your email address, not your phone number. It means it will keep working when you travel internationally and switch SIM cards, and it means you can disable it easily via your Apple ID should you ditch the iPhone.
- shurcooL 13y ago
  Yes, this is a good idea. But it's an extension of "stop relying so much on a non-free, proprietary 9-digit number as your id only to be at the mercy of your phone carrier". Personally, I use a data-only plan and feel much better than when I had a carrier-provided phone number.
  - sneak 13y ago
    A data-only plan still has a carrier-provided phone number, and it will still default to that phone number when sending iMessages, happily ignorant of the fact that it can't call or text or MMS.
    - shurcooL 13y ago
      You're talking about invisible implementation details. My iMessage/FaceTime are set to use an email as the only ID. No one else knows or uses my data-only phone number. Just like they don't know or use my IMEI number.
      - sneak 13y ago
        No, I'm not - it will default to using that as the outbound ID even on a data-only plan, because iOS doesn't know it's a data-only plan. The fact that you must go and manually change it to your email address for outbound iMessages is the part that's invisible.
ahuibers 13y ago
Changing my iTunes password worked for me.
ksaville00 13y ago
I had this same issue, it was so bad I just went back to the iPhone.
habosa 13y ago
I know a ton of people who have this problem, it's a huge issue. My mom recently switched to a Moto X and couldn't get any text messages from my sisters. When she called Apple for support, they told her they would not help her unless she paid a fee for phone support. Read that again: they wanted her to pay extra money to properly leave their ecosystem. If they wanted her to come back to Apple it backfired, she'll never touch another iDevice after that snub.
owenwil 13y ago
The saddest part about this story is perhaps the fact that iMessage was supposed to be open and allow other phone builders to use it. Having it truly cross-platform in the first place would have avoided a situation like this :(
- chid 13y ago
  Source? I have never heard anything about it being 'open', or even planned to be.
- abrowne 13y ago
  Facetime was supposed to become an open standard†, but I don't think Apple ever said that about imessage. † From the WWDC 2010 keynote: “And we're going to take it all the way. We're going to the standards bodies, starting tomorrow, and we're going to make Facetime an open industry standard.”
trichey 13y ago
I had this happen to me, and I was only able to receive texts on my new S4 after disabling iMessage on my old iPhone and iPad.
sandymcm 13y ago
My daughter had a similar problem. She has no data plan on her iPhone and she found that texts from some friends seemed to be delayed. Messages were not being sent/received until she connected to Wi-Fi. To fix, her friends who previously used iMessage to reach her had to start a new SMS conversation (or turn off iMessage entirely). If her friends just continued the conversations that started via iMessage, she could not get them via SMS.
badusername 13y ago
Had the same thing happen to me with a friend (me on iOS, him on iOS->Android) - it seemed to me that the trick was to press 'Send as Text Message' when the message fails to deliver. From then, it seems to work fine, as that probably forces a check on the Apple ID validity.
aichi 13y ago
Time to switch your friends to WhatsApp
MehdiEG 13y ago
Same problem here and I know quite a few people who've had these issues as well. iMessage is a huge mess - even if you're still using your iPhone. Back in December, when I was still on iPhone, I went in a month-long trip abroad. Since data roaming still costs a fortune, I had data switched off most of the time. I'd just connect on wifi whenever possible and occasionally switched on the data connection when I really needed to get online while on the go. Yet, despite the fact that I was roaming and that I had my data connection switched off, most of the text messages that my iOS-using contacts sent me were sent via iMessage instead of plain SMS. Which meant that I'd only get their message when I went back online, hours and sometimes days later.
- city41 13y ago
  My wife recently got an iPhone so we now both have one. We have tried everything we can possibly think of, but we cannot send each other iMessages, only SMS.
- hablahaha 13y ago
  I know of a relationship that ended because of iMessages. They had had a fight and he texted her to apologize and then he never received any responses (they went straight to his computer) and then she got more upset, he thought she wasn't talking to him, etc.
  - smtddr 13y ago
    There needs to be a blog about this.
  - 10feet 13y ago
    Texting an apology is never the best idea anyway, even without Apple messing it up.
    - a3n 13y ago
      The type of message sent should not matter at all. (I realize that's not what you're saying.) And people have their own individual and transient needs. If a text message makes it easier to say you're sorry, then there's nothing wrong with it. Particular if that's already an accepted and normal way to communicate between the parties. The problem wasn't that he sent it by text, the problem was that the relationship was too weak to withstand N hours of no communication. It was going to break anyway.
mrcharles 13y ago
I had this same problem and the best case fix seems to be to reset your Apple ID password; this forces you to log out from all devices, and so iMessage will at least error out for people who try and text you. But their devices will never go back to normal texts unless they specifically force it too, and that kind of lock-in is utter bullshit.
- lostlogin 13y ago
  Nice fix. I hate changing this password as the everything needs updating. Appletv, App Store (on 3 macs iphone and iPad) iTunes (2 macs iphone and iPad for music) home sharing (on everything) iMessage (Mac and iphone), FaceTime (Mac, iphone, iPad), developer portal (Mac), itunes connect (Mac), email (Mac, iphone, iPad) and iCloud backups on everything. It is hellish and invariably something is missed so the bugs aren't ironed out for weeks. Don't change your passwords as Appleland becomes a dark and hellish place.
bcj 13y ago
The same thing happened to me when I broke my iPhone a few months back. I ended up speaking to 3 or 4 different representatives explaining that I had removed the phone number from all my iDevices, but couldn't turn iMessages off from the device. I went so far as borrowing a friend's phone, and getting a new phone number associated with my Apple account. The solution that ended up working for me was changing the password associated with my Apple account. I don't understand why Apple doesn't have a solution to this yet. It was obviously going to be a problem from the start. The people I feel worst for are those who get a phone number that used to belong to an iPhone user. They may miss texts without any idea what is going on, and without any recourse to fix it.
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natch 13y ago
What is the radar number for this bug? You did file a bug report, right? http://bugreport.apple.com http://bugreport.apple.com If not... you should do so. If you give people the radar number they can duplicate it at that same site and raise its priority.
- natch 13y ago
  crickets...
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ptlu 13y ago
You can unlink your phone number from iMessages, and even deactivate iMessages totally avoiding this problem...
- lostlogin 13y ago
  He did this, I have done this. It doesn't work. He may have updated the blog since you wrote this.
verelo 13y ago
I had a friend who went through this same issue, for about a week i wondered why he never replied to me, until we talked about it and i realized the situation he was in. It's a terrible bug, apple seriously need to address this. I get why they wouldnt want to, but to me this is a shady as a broken "Unsubscribe from this email" link.
3pt14159 13y ago
Some "bugs" are only fixed with class action lawsuits. This "bug" has been around for a while now and Apple can fix it they just don't prioritize bugs that allow people to switch away from them easily. It is fraud to fail to deliver messages to my phone when I've switched phones. It shouldn't take me calling you, it should happen automatically and in under a day.
Aloha 13y ago
This is why you disable iMessage before turning your device in.
- lostlogin 13y ago
  Could you explain what you mean? I've been bit by this but have my old phone, and the blog states that he turned iMessage off everywhere.
vacri 13y ago
Rather than telling your friends to delete their entire history, what's the problem with asking them to just make a new contact listing? I'm not familiar with the gubbins of iMessage.
- mdmarra 13y ago
  I think the problem is that asking everyone that's ever messaged you from an iOS device to modify something on their handset every time someone in their contacts switches platforms isn't a reasonable request.
Wintamute 13y ago
Turning off iMessage on her iPhone, making sure any references to iMessage in any device settings (including OSX) related only to an email address not a cell number before moving to Android meant my girlfriend didn't experience any issues. Not sure if that's a panacea and she was just lucky though ..
SeoxyS 13y ago
A fairly simple solution would be to get a Google Voice number, that would forward to your real number - and have people text you via Google Voice. However, if anybody calls (or sends an old-style SMS to) your old number, it would still come through.
- 10feet 13y ago
  This is not a solution if you live outside of the USA.
- psychometry 13y ago
  How does that solve the author's problem of other people texting him via iMessage?
- usaar333 13y ago
  Google Voice has its own issues. He can't group message (with MMS) with Google Voice. Worse.. it fails silently.
10feet 13y ago
I noticed this over the last 2 weeks. I switched my mobile data off, and now I don't get SMS from my friends until I return home. Nice one Apple.
sunsu 13y ago
I had this same problem and recently solved it by - putting my sim back into my old iOS phone. - reactivating iMessage on the old phone WITH the sim inside of the old phone - wait to make sure the phone fully registers with iMessage servers - deactivate iMessage WITH the sim inside the phone After following these steps, I'm not problem free. I had tried many times before to reactivate/deactivate iMessage, but never with the sim back in the device.
- arkonaut 13y ago
  Not problem free or 'now' problem free? Would love to know if this solution works. Thanks!
- sunsu 13y ago
  *Now problem free
hk__2 13y ago
You should seriously improve your blog’s contrast, especially regarding small text. The background is around #F5F1F8 while the text is #888588 (which is not enough to meet WC3 recommendations).
mergy 13y ago
Also, the default messaging app in Android may or may not be helpful. I've found Ninja to be the better way to go when dealing with SMS with the Apple folks yet to leave iOS. http://mergy.org/2013/12/problems-getting-group-smsmms-from-ios-on-android-get-ninja-sms/ http://mergy.org/2013/12/problems-getting-group-smsmms-from-...
emmelaich 13y ago
This has to be _the_ most common issue with caches anywhere anytime. When and how do you invalidate. My own example - I have Youtube comments that were up for a few hours before I deleted them. They still appear on my G+ history :-(
justinzollars 13y ago
Steve Jobs dies and everything goes to hell. Tim Cooks biggest innovation was the Apple Dividend.
- shinratdr 13y ago
  Nevermind the fact that iMessage existed long before SJ passed on and that this issue has been present since then. Just cut off those rough edges to cram it into your narrative.
fredgrott 13y ago
I have a question for mobile developers... is Apple the only one making this mistake?
patrickod 13y ago
This is worrying as my Mum's iPhone just bit the dust and we replaced it with an Android phone. I'm hoping that she doesn't experience the same issues with her friends and family (many of whom use iPhones).
sd8f9iu 13y ago
I had the same issue, and after isolating the problem to iOS clients like the author did, I had some success by having iMessage users remove and re-add me as a contact. Obviously not a good general solution, but it's better than having them delete every message chain.
afterburner 13y ago
Wow. I switched to Android before iMessage came out, but I sure as heck will triple check if this has been fixed before ever consider an iPhone again.
martinald 13y ago
This is the problem with bolting proprietary standards on top of legacy methodology. I do swear that iOS by default does send SMS after 5 minutes if it can't do it over iMessage though?
- lostlogin 13y ago
  Not always, even when 'send as SMS when iMessage is unavailable' is turned on. Fixing iMessage issues is near impossible due to the complete absence of useful settings.
wudf 13y ago
Try switching back to iOS then forward to android again?
donniefitz2 13y ago
Same thing happened to me when I switched to Windows Phone. I didn't realize it until my iPhone was long gone. I un-registered my iPhone on Apple's site and about a month later, iPhone users could text me again.
TWAndrews 13y ago
I recently made exactly ths same switch, and unsurprisingly had exactly this issue. I resolved it by turning on my iPhone, putting it in airplane mode, and turning on wireless. I then went into Settings >> Messages and turned off iMessage. All the iPhones that had previously been trying to send me messages via iMessage then started routing messages to me via text.
monokrome 13y ago
This isn't a bug. How do you expect it to work? It's probably not just expected behavior, but an intentional form of vendor lock-in.
myhf 13y ago
This is a serious problem and I'm gonna let him finish, but I get a huge amount of schadenfreude from hearing about the suffering of someone who sends a lot of group MMSes.
jobu 13y ago
I've noticed lately that texts to people switching from iPhone to Android will fail and require user interaction. When did this change? I recall texting a friend a couple years back, and it automatically failed over to SMS. I remember this explicitly because I was in Mexico at the time, and it led to a few extra bucks in special charges for texting in a foreign country.
- msh 13y ago
  It is a option on the sender phone if it should use system in case of failure. Maybe the default have changed?
CatMtKing 13y ago
Ah, this sounds familiar. I recently got a new cell phone number, using an Android phone. Some days later, a few of my fellow carpoolers told me after texting me that they were getting replies from someone else telling them they had the wrong number! I was stumped, until we noticed all the people who were failing to text me were using iPhones. I texted my own number using one of their phones and asked the mystery recipient if she recognized my phone number. Apparently, it was her old number: still attached to her iMessage account. She removed it, but weeks later, I still don't receive any texts from iPhone users. Guess I'll have to check in with AT&T/Apple about it. tl;dr: This bug can affect you even if you have never owned an iPhone.
- PeterisP 13y ago
  This seems a big issue then - permanently caching phone numbers is dangerous; around here some 55% users are on prepaid simcards, and thoae numbers often get recycled, i.e., given out to someone else after it stops being used and teen-25 audiences tend to churn through many numbers (no idea on why they do so, i've had a single number forever, but that's how it is) A few years earlier almost all of them wouldn't be on iOS, but now they are often using iPhones (sometimes old handmedowns) on those disposable numbers, so if it breaks messaging when changing numbers... Then that will be a problem for many people.
linssen 13y ago
I've got exactly the same problem here, has anyone found a solution (other than not using iMessage in the first place)?
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
blueskin_ 13y ago
>But to ask my wife, my sister, my best friends, and literally every person I know to delete THEIR message histories? You’ve got to be kidding me! That is true, but not because of photos - don't they keep backups? I guess this is why not to use vendor lock-in software instead of a globally accepted standard for basic communication.
tripngroove 13y ago
I recently had this exact problem. THE FIX: Log in to your Apple support profile, go to the devices section, then unregister all the iOS devices associated with your account.
happywolf 13y ago
For those who want to extol the virtues of FSF, do note the following: 1) GSM is neither free(both in free beer and free to distribute) nor open-source 2) The phone that you are using, no matter how 'free' the software are, the hardware are mostly proprietary and those manufacturers aren't very FSF friendly (now getting better, but still way to go) 3) Phone manufacturers tend to add proprietary drivers/apps on top of Android, which renders the whole system not 100% free software either, so by saying iOS is closed-source, it is kind of like pot calling kettle black.
vrikis 13y ago
What's worse is that Apple iMessage servers seem to cache your phone number for a long time too... Even new message threads from my friends were trying to send as iMessage, even long after I got rid of my iPhone, disabled iMessage everywhere, and deleted any association of my phone number I could find. (I too switched from iOS to Android.) I find this crazy, that Apple lock you in like that.
TempleOSV2 13y ago
God for real.
kbrower 13y ago
I have the same issue. I called apple support and they simply could not help me.
TempleOSV2 13y ago
nigger
qubitcoder 13y ago
I've had similar problems when switching between Android & iOS devices over the years with both T-Mobile and AT&T. It was a bit perplexing the first couple times it happened. Then I got used to the drill. The solution, at least in my situation, was to call the carrier. Apple wasn't at fault. Both T-Mobile and AT&T would fail to complete all steps required for the transfer, and therefore still showed the old device as the active one. A simple call resolved the issue. In a couple instances, AT&T & T-Mobile would resolve the issue. Then I'd see the same behavior again weeks later. Sure enough, they had reverted to the old device on my profile. Calling them again resolved the issue.
PhrosTT 13y ago
When I upgraded to Android 4.3 I believe Google asked if I wanted to route my messages through Hangouts (Google+). I assume this would send everything through Gchat/Google+ wherever possible and skip SMS...
stevewillows 13y ago
When I was on IOS I regularly turned off imessage and back on again to refresh contacts. It's a pain in the ass, but it helped ease the pain of my friends switching to android before I did.

417 points by benstein 13y ago

dippyskoodlez 13y ago

If message histories are your only copy of family/friends photos, you're doing it wrong.

skolos 13y ago
This is a such wrong reply. The OP did not complain about his message history, he was talking about message histories of all his friends and relatives. Do you really think it could be socially acceptable to approach each of your friends and relative and tell them: "If message histories are your only copy of family/friends photos, you're doing it wrong." ?
- pmr_ 13y ago
  I don't even think it is acceptable to approach each of your friends and relatives and pester them with some technical issue that shouldn't exist in the first place. The proposed fix just isn't a viable solution.
  - shinratdr 13y ago
    This is true, but on the flipside it's hardly Apple's fault if the only copy they have of highly important and sentimental photos is a cached messaging stream. There are countless ways to back up that data. It's like blaming Microsoft because you didn't save transferred files during a Skype session. Once they're on you're end, they're your problem. Apple's job is to send them and make sure they arrive, that's it. This bug sucks and Apple's solution isn't a good one, but that rebuttal is equally weak. Use PhoneDisk, PhoneView or one of the other methods to pull a text messaging history if it's that important to you and then blow it away.
- dippyskoodlez 13y ago
  I wasn't even commenting regarding the stuck number, which is clearly an issue. I was arguing that this: "the vast majority of messaging I’ve done in the past 3 years are group messages with pictures of our children." It just screams data loss to ruin your day. I was (kinda) hoping OP would see that and maybe rethink his storage plans, because otherwise he'll be posting "wahh my photos weren't backed up" soon enough.
deleted 13y ago
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TazeTSchnitzel 13y ago

>IOS Hacker News's automatic capitalisation strikes again! I thought this was about Cisco IOS for a moment.

gatehouse 13y ago

It probably costs like $5 to change your phone number. I think that's the best option at this point.

q3k 13y ago
And it possibly costs you new business cards, and having to let everyone know that you have a new number, and changing any social profiles, etc. ...or Apple could stop making crappy software like this ;)
- gatehouse 13y ago
  One of these options is under your control, one isn't.
- skolos 13y ago
  Unfortunately Apple has zero incentive to fix this bug. Why should they care about customers they already lost?
  - jarcoal 13y ago
    I try and be very helpful to customers I'm losing... they might come back one day or recommend someone to me.
  - noblethrasher 13y ago
    Well, it will at least annoy their tech savvy customers since they know that it's Apple's bug.
  - jasonlotito 13y ago
    So when a new potential customer comes in, they don't have to worry about vendor lock in.
  - gatehouse 13y ago
    The fucked up thing is that is actually benefits Apple. The economic value of your subscribers it approximately the number of subscribers times the switching cost. This bug raises the switching cost and therefore makes their customers more valuable.

baby 13y ago

I know it's annoying but the best solution here just seems to change your number. Don't lose your mind over this one. edit : seems like people don't understand my post. If you have a voice, the good thing to do is to make a blog post and submit it to websites like HN. The guy did it, now what can he do if he needs a quick fix? If he's in rush? Change number. It's really not that terrible and I do it every year without trouble.

leobelle 13y ago
Yes, asking everyone to use a new number is less work than asking people to delete all their imessage threads. Updating contact info at work and with services shifts the burden to him.
- baby 13y ago
  I don't get if your comment is sarcastic or not. If it is, I don't see why it would be such a huge problem. It's a quickfix and if I were him, and in a rush to fix the problem, I would do that. I'm personally changing my phone number every year and it's never been a burden.
  - leobelle 13y ago
    It wasn't sarcastic I was agreeing with you. I guess other people thought I was being sarcastic too because you got downvoted and I didn't. I don't know, seems kind of obvious. I use google voice, I never have to change my number when switching phones. I don't know how that would impact imessage. I wouldn't ever use such a service baked into the phone by the phone maker.
ars 13y ago
What happens to the next person who gets that number?
- baby 13y ago
  if he doesn't have the same friends it's not a problem. I mean, he wrote that blog post, posted on HN and on various websites. It's getting attention. It's good. Now the guy still has to fix it so he can still contact his friends.

m_mueller 13y ago

Wouldn't it work to lend an iPhone, turn it on with the SIM holding the number and then switch off iMessages there? Wouldn't this invalidate the cached account in other iPhones?

morpher 13y ago
No this does not work. Group MMS from iohones are still dropped (as the article clearly describes).
- m_mueller 13y ago
  I don't see how the group MMS show that this wouldn't work - the question is whether cached accounts get purged through this client action, both on server and peers.

juliangindi 13y ago

Changing your number should not be the solution to this problem. I recently switched from iOS to Android and have been experiencing the same issues. The OP's title says it best, "IOS holding my phone number hostage." Changing my number would require an incredible amount of inconvenience. Apple needs to address this immediately.

noblethrasher 13y ago

The same thing happened to my Mom when she switched to Android this past Christmas. The solution in that case was to get her to connect her old iPhone to the Internet via Wi-Fi, and then disable iMessages. I assume that you would need to disable iMessages on all your iDevices in order to remedy the problem.

relix 13y ago

Did you try putting your SIM card back into your iPhone, then going to Settings > Messages and turning off iMessage over there? Make sure you have an internet connection too so it can "broadcast" your new status to Apple HQ. This is what I do when I'm abroad and don't want to dataroam. It's possible you already tried that and it won't make a difference - I don't use group messaging a lot.

zht 13y ago
"Let me recap: I no longer have iPhone"
- Haywain 13y ago
  This would also work if a friend lent him their phone. Of course, he'd have to do a backup > wipe > setup phone with his iCloud account & SIM > change settings > wipe > restore from backup... but, honestly, this is the process I had to do and it took about 5-10 mins tops. I had this same exact problem, and this was by far the easiest solution. Just need to have a friend willing to you let you manhandle their phone for a little while.
owenwil 13y ago
Yeah, all that OP has to do is go into the settings on the iPhone and either unlink the phone number or disable iMessage entirely and it'll go back to normal. It just required some forethought other than simply wiping the phone. I don't understand what the issue is; the feature is there so that you can be iMessaged if your phone happens to be turned off for a few days. If the phone number was de-linked immediately what would the use in that be? It expires after 10 days, anyway.
- benstein 13y ago
  Nope. I still have the iPhone. Everything is unlinked, deactivated, reset, etc in every way possible.
  - owenwil 13y ago

nirajd 13y ago

I had the same issue when switching to a Nexus 5. https://appleid.apple.com https://appleid.apple.com Try going here and removing the phone number from the "Phone Numbers" section. I still have friends who try to message me and their iOS assumes I'm using iMessage. The "retry as SMS" feature is the only method that works.

stevenelliottjr 13y ago
Also make sure to tell them "Send as SMS" is enabled on their iMessage settings. This will automatically try to re-send it as a text without manual intervention.
mkreef 13y ago
My wife just switched from an iPhone to a Note 3 and this concerned me, but I was surprised her cell number is not listed with her apple id.

itsdrewmiller 13y ago

I'm having what I think is the same problem just from getting my broken iPhone 5 replaced with a new one. Same deal with tech support - very nice, but not able to solve the problem. Sounds like a bug in iOS that could seriously stand fixing.

deleted 13y ago

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0x0 13y ago

This article claims resetting your apple ID password will disassociate the imessage phone number: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5538 http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5538

benstein 13y ago
Yup. Tried resetting everything possible. So did Apple support. And they escalated to engineers who also said they have no more records of my number server-side. But there's no way to clear the client side caches.
- jey 13y ago
  So it's clearly a bug or intentional misfeature by Apple.
- 0x0 13y ago
  That sucks, if it is the case. It only takes a second or two for a newly added number to switch from green to blue (I'm sure it's some kind of HTTP number lookup request to an *.apple.com web service), so why couldn't they re-request that every time - or at least keep the caches down to like 15-30 minutes...
- ac29 13y ago
  Do iOS apps not have a clear data/clear cache system level option like android does? If not, what do you do to wipe an app's data?
  - noselasd 13y ago
    It does. Since it's cached on every device of the people that has sent messages to him, each one of them will either 1. Wipe out the iMessage data - which is all their message history. or 2. Manually delete every message/thread the OP has been involved in. That's not going to happen.
    - fpgeek 13y ago

rdoherty 13y ago

I'm experiencing the same problem, I've tried: 1) Turning off iMessage on old iPhone 2) Removing phone number from my Apple account 3) Friends removing my cell # from their address books and a few other random things. Nothing has fixed it. The only way a friend with an iOS device can SMS me is if they turn of iMessage. This is a pretty huge bug on Apple's part.

Nicholas_C 13y ago
Same here. Incredibly frustrating. Did you unregister your device(s)? After doing this I think people's iPhones know your number isn't an iPhone anymore and after it fails to send the iMessage it sends it as a regular message. The below link helped me: http://support.vodafone.com.au/articles/FAQ/How-to-deactivate-iMessage-if-you-re-switching-from-iPhone http://support.vodafone.com.au/articles/FAQ/How-to-deactivat... I'm still having occasional problems with not getting texts but for the most part it's fixed.
- rdoherty 13y ago
  Yup, I unregistered my devices too. Will double check and follow that link's instructions.
blowski 13y ago
From Apple's perspective, it sounds like quite a handy bug. Since I've been an iPhone user for 5 years, this bug makes me locked in to the iOS environment. Given that they have established a market-distorting barrier to exit, they should be ordered by a court to fix this issue.
TWAndrews 13y ago
That's odd. I made the same switch, but when I turned off iMessage on my old phone, texts from contacts with iPhones are sent correctly to my new android device.

danielsju6 13y ago

I'm currently having to deal with this too. The best solution that I found was switching my number and keeping the iPhone, jailbreaking it, and installing BiteSMS with forwarding. It's kinda a pain and of course I have to pay to keep the iPhone around.

RyanZAG 13y ago

Just think, if you hadn't used a proprietary messaging solution as your default contact method, you'd be able to easily control how you receive the messages. Maybe stuff like this happening is a good thing as it drills home the point the 'crazy free software lunatics' have been going on about for some time. Having this kind of thing happen to someone makes the stuff FSF+co says a bit more relevant and ultimately helps everyone.

sneak 13y ago
> Maybe stuff like this happening is a good thing as it drills home the point Ugh, thinking like this just may well be the biggest problem in our industry. Stop being user-hostile.
- wwweston 13y ago
  I don't know that RyanZAG is so much being user-hostile as reminding us that there are facts of non-free systems that are going translate to user-hostile for at least some subset of users. There's incentives for people who make closed systems to make the most common edges of them comfortable. There's also incentives for them to ignore other sharp edges or to even actively make other edges nearly untraversable.
  - josh2600 13y ago
    I came here to say exactly this. Source: I work in the guts of some of the biggest telecom networks on the planet. Federation is a problem because none of the standards interop. The closest thing we had was XMPP which became mega-bloatware as time went by and is now just not something anyone wants to implement (and it's becoming less of an issue as most of the players move away from open-ness). While the technical among us understand the ramifications of these decisions, the silent majority do not. I believe it was Elad Gil who said that services that eschew privacy have historically dominated their more private opponents. Users say they care about privacy but their explicit value systems (what they say versus what they do) says otherwise. The majority of consumers are happy to take iMessage and use it to the extreme and will attribute silent failures to the operators in most cases (which is not necessarily wrong). True federated identity is the death of the phone network and there are just too many billions of dollars tied up in the world for this to come to pass. A phone number is a ridiculously arbitrary identifier for a person, and yet it works and has worked for quite some time. Logically addressed networks are finally starting to break, and that's a good thing, but the catalyst that will move us away from these systems is one that subsumes existing infrastructure while adding new features. You cannot rip and replace our communications networks (or any infrastructure for that matter) and so the only logical solution is to subsume. It's not easy, but that's how this gets fixed.

deleted 13y ago

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feelstupid 13y ago

Solution wise, even if iOS devs created a fix to purge the cache older than X weeks and to recechk it would still require all your friends to install the update before it takes affect, so I don't even see a fully fixed and timely solution to this.

stevenelliottjr 13y ago

Changing your Apple Id Password works like a charm too. It will log you out of your iMessage services. I did this when I switched to Galaxy Note 3.

nej 13y ago

I too switched to Android after Apple released iOS7 and have been having similar issues. The only solution I've found so far that still doesn't fix 100% of the problems is by asking friends and relatives to log out of iMessage, restart their phone then log back in.

nwienert 13y ago

This has been happening for over 2 years now. I've met multiple people in real life (including total non-techies) that have run into this. It's more common than you'd think. Basically anyone moving from an iPhone to Android (or any other phone I assume) will have this problem. At this point, it's obvious Apple is ok with this. It's a giant "fuck you" to anyone moving away from them and it leaves a bad taste in your mouth knowing they do this purposely.

eridius 13y ago
That's incredibly presumptuous of you to claim Apple is doing this purposely. It seems pretty obvious to me that it's a non-trivial fix for Apple, and that there's simply no good incentive for them to prioritize fixing this over the myriad other things their engineers could be spending their time on.
- piyush_soni 13y ago
  Isn't the first part of your comment kind of contradictory to the second part?
- fpgeek 13y ago
  > there's simply no good incentive for them to prioritize fixing this There's plenty of incentive for them to fix this. OP is far from the only one calling Apple customer support or going to a Genius bar over this issue. Those costs add up, unless they're also considering the incentives on the other side of the ledger.
- mikeash 13y ago
  Fixing it is the right thing to do. They're seriously screwing with people's communications otherwise. If you're saying that they're avoiding the right thing because it's too hard and there's no incentive, then to me that is essentially saying that they are doing it on purpose.
- pistle 13y ago
  Based on the "2 years" anecdote above, maybe it's something they could have got around to while completely revamping iOS. There are about few primary moving parts and OP indicates it's a known issue that can be resolved on clients. Too bad Apple has no control over that client OS, right? It's not a big problem to deal with. There is no motivation to fix it. It's not that Apple is doing anything purposefully. It's that they aren't, and won't, do anything to help since they know that OP (and that ilk) are not their customers. If OP didn't want to "lose" all his friends/network, he would have just got a 5s and shut up.

ivrrimum 13y ago

Just change phone number... lol

darkpicnic 13y ago

Exact. Same. Issue. All their solutions do not work. I've reset Apple ID and wiped all my old iOS devices. Roughly 90% of my friends cannot text me anymore. What's comical about this is how easy it is to fix: have a cache that breaks weekly; upon new text message, ping Apple HQ and see if device is iOS and has iMessage installed; great, save for a week.

macspoofing 13y ago
You can do better than that. User marks iMessage account as 'inactive'. Next time someone tries to send to his address via iMessage, ping their client with an "invalidate-cache-and-send-as-SMS" status code, and it's done. Everything is handled transparently to the sending user. No matter what, it would require some sort of update.

hakcermani 13y ago

Yup, have been hit by this, but not as bad as I use both platforms. Glad you wrote about it though.

sneak 13y ago

Preventative step: set your outbound iMessage "caller id" to your email address instead of your phone number. Do this now, before you're bitten by the bug. (Apple's degraded QA as of late on iOS means you'll also have to change it back on ALL your devices on the account any time you add or remove any devices or numbers to iMessage or FaceTime on that Apple ID, too.) This way, all your contacts are iMessaging with your email address, not your phone number. It means it will keep working when you travel internationally and switch SIM cards, and it means you can disable it easily via your Apple ID should you ditch the iPhone.

shurcooL 13y ago
Yes, this is a good idea. But it's an extension of "stop relying so much on a non-free, proprietary 9-digit number as your id only to be at the mercy of your phone carrier". Personally, I use a data-only plan and feel much better than when I had a carrier-provided phone number.
- sneak 13y ago
  A data-only plan still has a carrier-provided phone number, and it will still default to that phone number when sending iMessages, happily ignorant of the fact that it can't call or text or MMS.
  - shurcooL 13y ago
    You're talking about invisible implementation details. My iMessage/FaceTime are set to use an email as the only ID. No one else knows or uses my data-only phone number. Just like they don't know or use my IMEI number.
    - sneak 13y ago
      No, I'm not - it will default to using that as the outbound ID even on a data-only plan, because iOS doesn't know it's a data-only plan. The fact that you must go and manually change it to your email address for outbound iMessages is the part that's invisible.

ahuibers 13y ago

Changing my iTunes password worked for me.

ksaville00 13y ago

I had this same issue, it was so bad I just went back to the iPhone.

habosa 13y ago

I know a ton of people who have this problem, it's a huge issue. My mom recently switched to a Moto X and couldn't get any text messages from my sisters. When she called Apple for support, they told her they would not help her unless she paid a fee for phone support. Read that again: they wanted her to pay extra money to properly leave their ecosystem. If they wanted her to come back to Apple it backfired, she'll never touch another iDevice after that snub.

owenwil 13y ago

The saddest part about this story is perhaps the fact that iMessage was supposed to be open and allow other phone builders to use it. Having it truly cross-platform in the first place would have avoided a situation like this :(

chid 13y ago
Source? I have never heard anything about it being 'open', or even planned to be.
abrowne 13y ago
Facetime was supposed to become an open standard†, but I don't think Apple ever said that about imessage. † From the WWDC 2010 keynote: “And we're going to take it all the way. We're going to the standards bodies, starting tomorrow, and we're going to make Facetime an open industry standard.”

trichey 13y ago

I had this happen to me, and I was only able to receive texts on my new S4 after disabling iMessage on my old iPhone and iPad.

sandymcm 13y ago

My daughter had a similar problem. She has no data plan on her iPhone and she found that texts from some friends seemed to be delayed. Messages were not being sent/received until she connected to Wi-Fi. To fix, her friends who previously used iMessage to reach her had to start a new SMS conversation (or turn off iMessage entirely). If her friends just continued the conversations that started via iMessage, she could not get them via SMS.

badusername 13y ago

Had the same thing happen to me with a friend (me on iOS, him on iOS->Android) - it seemed to me that the trick was to press 'Send as Text Message' when the message fails to deliver. From then, it seems to work fine, as that probably forces a check on the Apple ID validity.

aichi 13y ago

Time to switch your friends to WhatsApp

MehdiEG 13y ago

Same problem here and I know quite a few people who've had these issues as well. iMessage is a huge mess - even if you're still using your iPhone. Back in December, when I was still on iPhone, I went in a month-long trip abroad. Since data roaming still costs a fortune, I had data switched off most of the time. I'd just connect on wifi whenever possible and occasionally switched on the data connection when I really needed to get online while on the go. Yet, despite the fact that I was roaming and that I had my data connection switched off, most of the text messages that my iOS-using contacts sent me were sent via iMessage instead of plain SMS. Which meant that I'd only get their message when I went back online, hours and sometimes days later.

city41 13y ago
My wife recently got an iPhone so we now both have one. We have tried everything we can possibly think of, but we cannot send each other iMessages, only SMS.
hablahaha 13y ago
I know of a relationship that ended because of iMessages. They had had a fight and he texted her to apologize and then he never received any responses (they went straight to his computer) and then she got more upset, he thought she wasn't talking to him, etc.
- smtddr 13y ago
  There needs to be a blog about this.
- 10feet 13y ago
  Texting an apology is never the best idea anyway, even without Apple messing it up.
  - a3n 13y ago
    The type of message sent should not matter at all. (I realize that's not what you're saying.) And people have their own individual and transient needs. If a text message makes it easier to say you're sorry, then there's nothing wrong with it. Particular if that's already an accepted and normal way to communicate between the parties. The problem wasn't that he sent it by text, the problem was that the relationship was too weak to withstand N hours of no communication. It was going to break anyway.

mrcharles 13y ago

I had this same problem and the best case fix seems to be to reset your Apple ID password; this forces you to log out from all devices, and so iMessage will at least error out for people who try and text you. But their devices will never go back to normal texts unless they specifically force it too, and that kind of lock-in is utter bullshit.

lostlogin 13y ago
Nice fix. I hate changing this password as the everything needs updating. Appletv, App Store (on 3 macs iphone and iPad) iTunes (2 macs iphone and iPad for music) home sharing (on everything) iMessage (Mac and iphone), FaceTime (Mac, iphone, iPad), developer portal (Mac), itunes connect (Mac), email (Mac, iphone, iPad) and iCloud backups on everything. It is hellish and invariably something is missed so the bugs aren't ironed out for weeks. Don't change your passwords as Appleland becomes a dark and hellish place.

bcj 13y ago

The same thing happened to me when I broke my iPhone a few months back. I ended up speaking to 3 or 4 different representatives explaining that I had removed the phone number from all my iDevices, but couldn't turn iMessages off from the device. I went so far as borrowing a friend's phone, and getting a new phone number associated with my Apple account. The solution that ended up working for me was changing the password associated with my Apple account. I don't understand why Apple doesn't have a solution to this yet. It was obviously going to be a problem from the start. The people I feel worst for are those who get a phone number that used to belong to an iPhone user. They may miss texts without any idea what is going on, and without any recourse to fix it.

deleted 13y ago

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natch 13y ago

What is the radar number for this bug? You did file a bug report, right? http://bugreport.apple.com http://bugreport.apple.com If not... you should do so. If you give people the radar number they can duplicate it at that same site and raise its priority.

natch 13y ago
crickets...

deleted 13y ago

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ptlu 13y ago

You can unlink your phone number from iMessages, and even deactivate iMessages totally avoiding this problem...

lostlogin 13y ago
He did this, I have done this. It doesn't work. He may have updated the blog since you wrote this.

verelo 13y ago

I had a friend who went through this same issue, for about a week i wondered why he never replied to me, until we talked about it and i realized the situation he was in. It's a terrible bug, apple seriously need to address this. I get why they wouldnt want to, but to me this is a shady as a broken "Unsubscribe from this email" link.

3pt14159 13y ago

Some "bugs" are only fixed with class action lawsuits. This "bug" has been around for a while now and Apple can fix it they just don't prioritize bugs that allow people to switch away from them easily. It is fraud to fail to deliver messages to my phone when I've switched phones. It shouldn't take me calling you, it should happen automatically and in under a day.

Aloha 13y ago

This is why you disable iMessage before turning your device in.

lostlogin 13y ago
Could you explain what you mean? I've been bit by this but have my old phone, and the blog states that he turned iMessage off everywhere.

vacri 13y ago

Rather than telling your friends to delete their entire history, what's the problem with asking them to just make a new contact listing? I'm not familiar with the gubbins of iMessage.

mdmarra 13y ago
I think the problem is that asking everyone that's ever messaged you from an iOS device to modify something on their handset every time someone in their contacts switches platforms isn't a reasonable request.

Wintamute 13y ago

Turning off iMessage on her iPhone, making sure any references to iMessage in any device settings (including OSX) related only to an email address not a cell number before moving to Android meant my girlfriend didn't experience any issues. Not sure if that's a panacea and she was just lucky though ..

SeoxyS 13y ago

A fairly simple solution would be to get a Google Voice number, that would forward to your real number - and have people text you via Google Voice. However, if anybody calls (or sends an old-style SMS to) your old number, it would still come through.

10feet 13y ago
This is not a solution if you live outside of the USA.
psychometry 13y ago
How does that solve the author's problem of other people texting him via iMessage?
usaar333 13y ago
Google Voice has its own issues. He can't group message (with MMS) with Google Voice. Worse.. it fails silently.

10feet 13y ago

I noticed this over the last 2 weeks. I switched my mobile data off, and now I don't get SMS from my friends until I return home. Nice one Apple.

sunsu 13y ago

I had this same problem and recently solved it by - putting my sim back into my old iOS phone. - reactivating iMessage on the old phone WITH the sim inside of the old phone - wait to make sure the phone fully registers with iMessage servers - deactivate iMessage WITH the sim inside the phone After following these steps, I'm not problem free. I had tried many times before to reactivate/deactivate iMessage, but never with the sim back in the device.

arkonaut 13y ago
Not problem free or 'now' problem free? Would love to know if this solution works. Thanks!
sunsu 13y ago
*Now problem free

hk__2 13y ago

You should seriously improve your blog’s contrast, especially regarding small text. The background is around #F5F1F8 while the text is #888588 (which is not enough to meet WC3 recommendations).

mergy 13y ago

Also, the default messaging app in Android may or may not be helpful. I've found Ninja to be the better way to go when dealing with SMS with the Apple folks yet to leave iOS. http://mergy.org/2013/12/problems-getting-group-smsmms-from-ios-on-android-get-ninja-sms/ http://mergy.org/2013/12/problems-getting-group-smsmms-from-...

emmelaich 13y ago

This has to be _the_ most common issue with caches anywhere anytime. When and how do you invalidate. My own example - I have Youtube comments that were up for a few hours before I deleted them. They still appear on my G+ history :-(

justinzollars 13y ago

Steve Jobs dies and everything goes to hell. Tim Cooks biggest innovation was the Apple Dividend.

shinratdr 13y ago
Nevermind the fact that iMessage existed long before SJ passed on and that this issue has been present since then. Just cut off those rough edges to cram it into your narrative.

fredgrott 13y ago

I have a question for mobile developers... is Apple the only one making this mistake?

patrickod 13y ago

This is worrying as my Mum's iPhone just bit the dust and we replaced it with an Android phone. I'm hoping that she doesn't experience the same issues with her friends and family (many of whom use iPhones).

sd8f9iu 13y ago

I had the same issue, and after isolating the problem to iOS clients like the author did, I had some success by having iMessage users remove and re-add me as a contact. Obviously not a good general solution, but it's better than having them delete every message chain.

afterburner 13y ago

Wow. I switched to Android before iMessage came out, but I sure as heck will triple check if this has been fixed before ever consider an iPhone again.

martinald 13y ago

This is the problem with bolting proprietary standards on top of legacy methodology. I do swear that iOS by default does send SMS after 5 minutes if it can't do it over iMessage though?

lostlogin 13y ago
Not always, even when 'send as SMS when iMessage is unavailable' is turned on. Fixing iMessage issues is near impossible due to the complete absence of useful settings.

wudf 13y ago

Try switching back to iOS then forward to android again?

donniefitz2 13y ago

Same thing happened to me when I switched to Windows Phone. I didn't realize it until my iPhone was long gone. I un-registered my iPhone on Apple's site and about a month later, iPhone users could text me again.

TWAndrews 13y ago

I recently made exactly ths same switch, and unsurprisingly had exactly this issue. I resolved it by turning on my iPhone, putting it in airplane mode, and turning on wireless. I then went into Settings >> Messages and turned off iMessage. All the iPhones that had previously been trying to send me messages via iMessage then started routing messages to me via text.

monokrome 13y ago

This isn't a bug. How do you expect it to work? It's probably not just expected behavior, but an intentional form of vendor lock-in.

myhf 13y ago

This is a serious problem and I'm gonna let him finish, but I get a huge amount of schadenfreude from hearing about the suffering of someone who sends a lot of group MMSes.

jobu 13y ago

I've noticed lately that texts to people switching from iPhone to Android will fail and require user interaction. When did this change? I recall texting a friend a couple years back, and it automatically failed over to SMS. I remember this explicitly because I was in Mexico at the time, and it led to a few extra bucks in special charges for texting in a foreign country.

msh 13y ago
It is a option on the sender phone if it should use system in case of failure. Maybe the default have changed?

CatMtKing 13y ago

Ah, this sounds familiar. I recently got a new cell phone number, using an Android phone. Some days later, a few of my fellow carpoolers told me after texting me that they were getting replies from someone else telling them they had the wrong number! I was stumped, until we noticed all the people who were failing to text me were using iPhones. I texted my own number using one of their phones and asked the mystery recipient if she recognized my phone number. Apparently, it was her old number: still attached to her iMessage account. She removed it, but weeks later, I still don't receive any texts from iPhone users. Guess I'll have to check in with AT&T/Apple about it. tl;dr: This bug can affect you even if you have never owned an iPhone.

PeterisP 13y ago
This seems a big issue then - permanently caching phone numbers is dangerous; around here some 55% users are on prepaid simcards, and thoae numbers often get recycled, i.e., given out to someone else after it stops being used and teen-25 audiences tend to churn through many numbers (no idea on why they do so, i've had a single number forever, but that's how it is) A few years earlier almost all of them wouldn't be on iOS, but now they are often using iPhones (sometimes old handmedowns) on those disposable numbers, so if it breaks messaging when changing numbers... Then that will be a problem for many people.

linssen 13y ago

I've got exactly the same problem here, has anyone found a solution (other than not using iMessage in the first place)?

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

blueskin_ 13y ago

>But to ask my wife, my sister, my best friends, and literally every person I know to delete THEIR message histories? You’ve got to be kidding me! That is true, but not because of photos - don't they keep backups? I guess this is why not to use vendor lock-in software instead of a globally accepted standard for basic communication.

tripngroove 13y ago

I recently had this exact problem. THE FIX: Log in to your Apple support profile, go to the devices section, then unregister all the iOS devices associated with your account.

happywolf 13y ago

For those who want to extol the virtues of FSF, do note the following: 1) GSM is neither free(both in free beer and free to distribute) nor open-source 2) The phone that you are using, no matter how 'free' the software are, the hardware are mostly proprietary and those manufacturers aren't very FSF friendly (now getting better, but still way to go) 3) Phone manufacturers tend to add proprietary drivers/apps on top of Android, which renders the whole system not 100% free software either, so by saying iOS is closed-source, it is kind of like pot calling kettle black.

vrikis 13y ago

What's worse is that Apple iMessage servers seem to cache your phone number for a long time too... Even new message threads from my friends were trying to send as iMessage, even long after I got rid of my iPhone, disabled iMessage everywhere, and deleted any association of my phone number I could find. (I too switched from iOS to Android.) I find this crazy, that Apple lock you in like that.

TempleOSV2 13y ago

God for real.

kbrower 13y ago

I have the same issue. I called apple support and they simply could not help me.

TempleOSV2 13y ago

nigger

qubitcoder 13y ago

I've had similar problems when switching between Android & iOS devices over the years with both T-Mobile and AT&T. It was a bit perplexing the first couple times it happened. Then I got used to the drill. The solution, at least in my situation, was to call the carrier. Apple wasn't at fault. Both T-Mobile and AT&T would fail to complete all steps required for the transfer, and therefore still showed the old device as the active one. A simple call resolved the issue. In a couple instances, AT&T & T-Mobile would resolve the issue. Then I'd see the same behavior again weeks later. Sure enough, they had reverted to the old device on my profile. Calling them again resolved the issue.

PhrosTT 13y ago

When I upgraded to Android 4.3 I believe Google asked if I wanted to route my messages through Hangouts (Google+). I assume this would send everything through Gchat/Google+ wherever possible and skip SMS...

stevewillows 13y ago

When I was on IOS I regularly turned off imessage and back on again to refresh contacts. It's a pain in the ass, but it helped ease the pain of my friends switching to android before I did.