4 ms·

Wasn't Madden 25 recently released? And score is still kept in eight-bit storage? And the Innovative Title of the Year award goes to...

munificent 13y ago
When I worked on Madden around 2007 or so, you could still find the original code for updating the score on a touchdown. It had Steve Chiang's[1] initials by it. It's not like the rules for that have changed much over the years, so there's little reason to touch the code. [1] http://company.zynga.com/about/leadership-team/zynga-leadership-team http://company.zynga.com/about/leadership-team/zynga-leaders...
- BlackDeath3 13y ago
  No, I get that football doesn't change all that much, and therefore the games don't need to change all that much (so why it's become an annual new release sort of situation is beyond me) so I could understand not redoing all of the game logic, but... eight-bit score storage?
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - cube13 13y ago
    Assuming a 15 minute quarter(though most Madden games have shorter quarters, especially if they're multiplayer), to get 255 points in a quarter, a team would need to score a touchdown + 2 point conversion every 30 seconds. For a full game, that's every 2 minutes. Any given play generally takes 10-20 seconds, and you're going to be running, bare minimum, 2 plays per 8 points(1 for touchdown, 1 for 2 point conversion). So that's about 25 seconds per score. If the teams are remotely well matched(i.e. aren't a Breaking Madden team), they'll take at least 2-3 minutes per possession, since you're most likely going to have 4 downs, which have a play clock of 40 seconds(most teams use around 30/play), so the "average" shortest possession is something like 2 minutes. The point of all this? The Breaking Madden games are really an outlier that you'd have to specifically code for.
    - doktrin 13y ago
      > The point of all this? The Breaking Madden games are really an outlier that you'd have to specifically code for. Rather than coding special exemptions or rules, it seems that using 8 bit storage would have to be a deliberate choice on any modern platform.
      - m_myers 13y ago
        Sure, on any modern platform. But you don't change 25-year-old code unless there's a pressing reason.
        BlackDeath3 13y ago
        Fair enough. I suppose I could see twenty-five year old code relying on data sizes in such a way that a seemingly trivial change could cause issues. The real question is, what the hell does a Madden developer do for the rest of the time that dealing with data type changes is not worth it?
        GFK_of_xmaspast 13y ago
        How about things like 'physics' and 'ai'.
    - scott_karana 13y ago
      I think BlackDeath's point is just... Who wouldn't just use "int" for all of this logic? It's so simple that you could do it on autopilot. You'd have to specifically try to limit to 8-bits.
      - BlackDeath3 13y ago
        If 'char' in-place of 'int' is a legacy quirk, then I get it. I just find it odd that over the course of twenty-five years the required expense couldn't be made to update the data type. It just makes more sense.
  - munificent 13y ago
    > so why it's become an annual new release sort of situation is beyond me The answer from EA's point of view is that people buy it every year, so of course they'll make a new one. The explanation from the user's point of view is that much of the magic of the game comes from it reflecting the teams, players, and plays of the actual NFL. When some quarterback gets traded to another team, you want to get next year's Madden so he's on the right team in the game too. This is one of the really cool things about the game. There are millions of people who have detailed knowledge of different teams and players and what their strengths and weaknesses are. Madden lets you take that otherwise pointless barroom trivia and use it to actually be better at the game.
    - BlackDeath3 13y ago
      I understand that, which is why it seems like the more appropriate vector for that sort of change would be via a patch, not an entirely new release of a game.
- BIair 13y ago
  I find it amazing 25-year old code still exists at all in a franchise like Madden. I played the original Madden. It bears little resemblance to the current generation. There's really not been a total rewrite in 25 years? Amazing.

munificent 13y ago

When I worked on Madden around 2007 or so, you could still find the original code for updating the score on a touchdown. It had Steve Chiang's[1] initials by it. It's not like the rules for that have changed much over the years, so there's little reason to touch the code. [1] http://company.zynga.com/about/leadership-team/zynga-leadership-team http://company.zynga.com/about/leadership-team/zynga-leaders...

BlackDeath3 13y ago
No, I get that football doesn't change all that much, and therefore the games don't need to change all that much (so why it's become an annual new release sort of situation is beyond me) so I could understand not redoing all of the game logic, but... eight-bit score storage?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- cube13 13y ago
  Assuming a 15 minute quarter(though most Madden games have shorter quarters, especially if they're multiplayer), to get 255 points in a quarter, a team would need to score a touchdown + 2 point conversion every 30 seconds. For a full game, that's every 2 minutes. Any given play generally takes 10-20 seconds, and you're going to be running, bare minimum, 2 plays per 8 points(1 for touchdown, 1 for 2 point conversion). So that's about 25 seconds per score. If the teams are remotely well matched(i.e. aren't a Breaking Madden team), they'll take at least 2-3 minutes per possession, since you're most likely going to have 4 downs, which have a play clock of 40 seconds(most teams use around 30/play), so the "average" shortest possession is something like 2 minutes. The point of all this? The Breaking Madden games are really an outlier that you'd have to specifically code for.
  - doktrin 13y ago
    > The point of all this? The Breaking Madden games are really an outlier that you'd have to specifically code for. Rather than coding special exemptions or rules, it seems that using 8 bit storage would have to be a deliberate choice on any modern platform.
    - m_myers 13y ago
      Sure, on any modern platform. But you don't change 25-year-old code unless there's a pressing reason.
      - BlackDeath3 13y ago
        Fair enough. I suppose I could see twenty-five year old code relying on data sizes in such a way that a seemingly trivial change could cause issues. The real question is, what the hell does a Madden developer do for the rest of the time that dealing with data type changes is not worth it?
        GFK_of_xmaspast 13y ago
        How about things like 'physics' and 'ai'.
  - scott_karana 13y ago
    I think BlackDeath's point is just... Who wouldn't just use "int" for all of this logic? It's so simple that you could do it on autopilot. You'd have to specifically try to limit to 8-bits.
    - BlackDeath3 13y ago
      If 'char' in-place of 'int' is a legacy quirk, then I get it. I just find it odd that over the course of twenty-five years the required expense couldn't be made to update the data type. It just makes more sense.
- munificent 13y ago
  > so why it's become an annual new release sort of situation is beyond me The answer from EA's point of view is that people buy it every year, so of course they'll make a new one. The explanation from the user's point of view is that much of the magic of the game comes from it reflecting the teams, players, and plays of the actual NFL. When some quarterback gets traded to another team, you want to get next year's Madden so he's on the right team in the game too. This is one of the really cool things about the game. There are millions of people who have detailed knowledge of different teams and players and what their strengths and weaknesses are. Madden lets you take that otherwise pointless barroom trivia and use it to actually be better at the game.
  - BlackDeath3 13y ago
    I understand that, which is why it seems like the more appropriate vector for that sort of change would be via a patch, not an entirely new release of a game.
BIair 13y ago
I find it amazing 25-year old code still exists at all in a franchise like Madden. I played the original Madden. It bears little resemblance to the current generation. There's really not been a total rewrite in 25 years? Amazing.